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Come on Tankers, Give me a Straight Answer

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Jason Pearson 3739	Posted - 2014.01.02 20:22:00 - [31] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? So allow me to get this straight. You're at a point defending it, only one of your guys has AV (I mean seriously, why aren't you all carrying AV nades? Or atleast half your crew carrying them?) and now a HAV is doing what it's meant to do, assault and breach a strongly defended location for a limited amount of time. Are you telling me there was absolutely nothing you could've done to have solved this issue? I mean you had one light AVer, nobody thought to carry any AV grenades? You had a strong squad and yet no vehicle support. Your tactics got beat by a smarter squad, deal with it. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 717	Posted - 2014.01.02 21:13:00 - [32] - Quote sounds like the other 5 members of the squad forgot their AV granades.... a tank forcing its way in isnt going to be moving very fast... and 5 of you throwing granades while a proto swarmer finishes it does the job quite well. but oh yah i forgot, you refuse to change your squad composition to counter OP tanks.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 426	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:23:00 - [33] - Quote AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 719	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:27:00 - [34] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off. were not arguing about balance, its clearly unbalanced. were simply detailing an effective and useful stratagy to counter the OPness. AV granades work, you can argue otherwise all you want but all that does is deny you an AV stratagy and doesnt really benifit you at all. its no skin off MY back if you dont use it, but its probably a good idea to try things out before you shoot them down.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7346	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:33:00 - [35] - Quote The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Jason Pearson 3741	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:41:00 - [36] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7346	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:43:00 - [37] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Jason Pearson 3741	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:44:00 - [38] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. And the other team doesn't bother with a double damage sica rail? incredible, I must be playing against players who can actually think for themselves. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. You're a total git, Jason. - Kingbabar
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:49:00 - [39] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Did you have any Flux grenades? Any remote explosives? Any Proximity explosives? Amy PRIMARY AV damage systems? (hint that means FORGE guns. Swarms and grenades are SUPPLEMENTARY) No? Then why are you complaining? That's like only having a pistol when trying to storm a point and complaining that your scrambler pistol couldn't out DPS a Battle Rifle. I have a suit all loaded up for just such a situation... what do you have? Nothing? Figures. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 7347	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:53:00 - [40] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. No you really wouldn't. We've had many laughs about this in squad, you do not win through sheer tanks alone. I mean they help and yeah sure they win ambush, but any compounds and the Tank becomes useless, he cannot get past the walls in his way and he can't hit the points tucked away behind something. Otherwise my WLR would be through the roof. Oh and to the guy that says AV grenades are useless, they still work very well, and considering in the situation the tank was pushing, all they had to do was get behind cover, pop the logis and toss grenades as the tanker tried to continue pushing, hardener or not it'd make him think again. Yes, you really would. All you need is someone to hack the point. You can have someone get out of one of your many tanks and hack the point, then sit on it blasting anyone who dares attempt to try and win against tank spam. As it is, my WLR IS through the roof from using this tactic. And the other team doesn't bother with a double damage sica rail? incredible, I must be playing against players who can actually think for themselves. Oh sure, they can bother doing that. Of course, if you're bad enough to not manage to kill it on the way in it will probably die fairly rapidly to the large number of tanks you happen to have. And even if you do lose 1 or 2 tanks, they only cost peanuts. Level 7 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'

Timtron Victory Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2014.01.02 22:55:00 - [41] - Quote Some replies here are really dumb Someone said SL are light weapons so you should not be able to get out heavy vehicle with heavy armor Following that logic, The Heavy Suits are heavies so light weapons should not destroy them either right? Seriously, if you want to point out someone as wrong at least make some sense. Dont just talk to hear yourself talk. In response to the OP I think having teammates with varying weapons would have helped 1 Flux grenades to subdue the infantry 2 AV grenades 3 Ammo resupply (nanohive) 4 Locus grenades Just spamming all the types of grenades while the Commando shoots the swarm launchers would have been a very good suppression tactic. Correct me if I am wrong, the objective was in an open space right? I think the best vehicle of choice now to counter tanks is dropship I personally dont fly one, but it gives a bird's eye view if you like. Assault dropships could surprise the tank and give the team a warning that a tank is nearby and since one shot from the tank cant kill most(I assume) you guys could zip away. But seriously? Where can you find a dude who just dropships an entire game? There are no WP for flying dropships right? Proud Christian Jesus Loves You
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1416	Posted - 2014.01.02 23:56:00 - [42] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: We had an Aver, you assume no enemy infantry, if had meant that id would have said that. So basically you expect us to sit it 2m squared area the tank can't access and hide. Your OP didn't mention that you had AV support on the objective. It also sounded like the tank had rolled in on his own. If infantry rolls in with armor support you better hope your AV is enough to drive off the tank and your infantry can defeat their infantry. Otherwise, the opposing team was smart and moved in with superior capabilities and you deserve to lose the point. I guess I'm now confused at what your point is. My point is, is it fair that I guy with a tank, under AV suppression, slaughtered an entire squad? Despite the fact we had AV? Is it fair that AV is THAT useless? Is it fair that because they had a tank and ee didn't that they won? Is it fair to give such overwhelming power to a single player? Does this show to you no matter how good the infantry is, even when we had the foresight to bring an AVer that tanks make it all meaningless? Did you have any Flux grenades? Any remote explosives? Any Proximity explosives? Amy PRIMARY AV damage systems? (hint that means FORGE guns. Swarms and grenades are SUPPLEMENTARY) No? Then why are you complaining? That's like only having a pistol when trying to storm a point and complaining that your scrambler pistol couldn't out DPS a Battle Rifle. I have a suit all loaded up for just such a situation... what do you have? Nothing? Figures. 1Flux + 1MD + 2RE - DemoMan/ Flanker 1Locus + 1SG + 1Flaylock + TriageHive PointMan / Breacher 1ASR + 1SL + 1PRE - AV speacilist 1Sniper - Sniper (obviously) 1 Locus + 1CR + RepTool + Injector + HybridHive - FieldMedic 1HMG + 1SMG - Enforcer/Suppresion So yes we had flux's, Yes we had RE, Yes we had proximity explosives, you should never assume. Although I must ask where in the swarm launcher it mentions it being Supplementary? In Game Description wrote: A mid-range anti-material weapon, the shoulder-mounted rocket launcher provides infantry squads with the means to effectively engage armoured vehicles and installation gun emplacements. I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:07:00 - [43] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Engage, not destroy. It generally means harassment. Think Scrambler Pistol VS Heavy If the heavy just stands there the pistol will eventually work, but if the heavy fires back the pistol usually has problems. Same thing with swarms. Also, most handheld guns have lower TTK than tanks do. I wouldn't complain if both tanks and general infantry weapons had their TTK increased. Tactics are always more fun than just getting splattered as soon as one is in range. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 478	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:29:00 - [44] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? What kind of tank was the guy using, why didn't your side have any vehicles, why couldn't you warn your team a tank was coming, why are you using protoswarms when you've had enough time by now to get a forge gun, why not just hide, why not let them have C while you take the other objectives, why were you sweating them having only one tank, why couldn't you wait for his hardeners to go off, why didn't you just bushwhack him with a militia rail tank?
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 467	Posted - 2014.01.04 06:40:00 - [45] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: lol you got pwnd Indeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? i agree with you. I think AV is very UP now. At best av hopes to do enough damage to make a tanker drive off. Getting a actual AV kill is VERY rare now. I use a forge gun often for AV and it just isn't enough any more. Tanks just turn hardners on and retreat to cover. My range sucks now so i have to either try getting into a LAV and hunt them down (totally foolish idea) or try running after them (not going to catch them in a million years) Even when i am using my proto forge with maxed prof and complex damage mod most tanks take 1 hit their shields drop (and some armor) they turn up the hardeners kick in the afterburners and off they go to come back in about 30 seconds or so (whenever cooldown is over) Better yet is when they realize i am set up with a forge gun and suddenly there are 2 blaster tanks coming for me.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 514	Posted - 2014.01.04 08:27:00 - [46] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. These sound like infantry only weapons?: ndeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Yep. Nerfed AV so just go and hide until more enemy tanks arrive and the enemy wins by not by captures but by killing all the available clones. Tank514...lol. If said Commando got gud & hopped in a LAV for positioning changes you would have had less to worry about. Add 2x Swarms to circumvent Reload & viola.....dead Tank. How 'bout dem Free-2-Play low SP investment (Fresh Academy ALT can do it) Zero ISK BPO Jihad Joe LAVs??? Stop the F2F Noobout Peek-a-Boo Bunnyhop BS & L2P Gud Community FFS.......
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 1434	Posted - 2014.01.04 08:42:00 - [47] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. The problem comes when a tank blocks a route you must take, or a strategic position. This is when you need an infantry solution to tanks, as calling in a tank in that scenario is almost impossible. The game is rapidly becoming a game of tank superiority. Vehicle dominance is unbalancing the game. A group of three tanks (A rail and two blasters) can easily prevent you from calling in your own tanks and to shut down infantry on the ground. Since calling in support on the front lines will be dang near impossible, you have to rely on calling them in from redline, which takes time you don't have. Infantry need a solution to force tanks to back off if they need too, and they are sorely lacking that. A tank should be the logical counter to another tank, but infantry need their own ways of fending off tanks. Not killing them, but forcing them to leave OR be killed. Current AV isn't up to the task, which is why Dust has rapidly become a game of which side can maintain Vehicle Dominance. Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter. Feel free to troll, lol, hate or debate as you see fit. Get over it. If you don't play to win in FW, then you're playing for Caldari. -Patrick57 Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1432	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:44:00 - [48] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. The problem comes when a tank blocks a route you must take, or a strategic position. This is when you need an infantry solution to tanks, as calling in a tank in that scenario is almost impossible. The game is rapidly becoming a game of tank superiority. Vehicle dominance is unbalancing the game. A group of three tanks (A rail and two blasters) can easily prevent you from calling in your own tanks and to shut down infantry on the ground. Since calling in support on the front lines will be dang near impossible, you have to rely on calling them in from redline, which takes time you don't have. Infantry need a solution to force tanks to back off if they need too, and they are sorely lacking that. A tank should be the logical counter to another tank, but infantry need their own ways of fending off tanks. Not killing them, but forcing them to leave OR be killed. Current AV isn't up to the task, which is why Dust has rapidly become a game of which side can maintain Vehicle Dominance. Just my 0.02 ISK on the matter. Feel free to troll, lol, hate or debate as you see fit. Pretty much, like I said we couldn't call in our own vehicle and our q-synced pilot was busy elsewhere. We weren't even after the vehicle kill we just needed it out of our hair. But nope it just keot going. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1432	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:46:00 - [49] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: One guy in a tank might kill you but he won't be able to capture an objective unless he gets out of the tank and makes himself vulnerable. Use cover, avoid the tank and try and shoot any infantry that come to hack. So hide? If you are infantry and equipped to fight infantry do you have a better idea? You can go places that the tank can't go and can't shoot at. Force the tanker to dismount to accomplish anything. I highly doubt they will and you have just neutralized his capability to capture the objective. Mission accomplished. Rookies try to engage what they have no hope of killing. Veterans know when to fall back and hold a position. These sound like infantry only weapons?: ndeed we did, but considering we had an AV player on the squad, a commando with Proto Swarms, should we have done? Yep. Nerfed AV so just go and hide until more enemy tanks arrive and the enemy wins by not by captures but by killing all the available clones. Tank514...lol. If said Commando got gud & hopped in a LAV for positioning changes you would have had less to worry about. Add 2x Swarms to circumvent Reload & viola.....dead Tank. How 'bout dem Free-2-Play low SP investment (Fresh Academy ALT can do it) Zero ISK BPO Jihad Joe LAVs??? Stop the F2F Noobout Peek-a-Boo Bunnyhop BS & L2P Gud Community FFS....... What LAV? Where are we gonna call this in exactly? There was a tank right near by. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1434	Posted - 2014.01.04 10:59:00 - [50] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I don't see it in there, the bit I see is , EFFECTIVELY engage armoured vehicles, a tank is an armoured vehicle, therefore I would expect thenSwarm Launcher to be capable of engaging it . . . . .Effectively. You are correct Ghost the Question is largely rhetorical, while the squad has adapted I think our Scenario shows that Tanks are just a little to effective. Don't get me wrong I am no advocate for the tanks of 1.6, I just think (like the TTK) they have just gone a LITTLE too far and if I can convince people this is the case we can try and avoid the continous cycle of buffs and nerfs. Engage, not destroy. It generally means harassment. Think Scrambler Pistol VS Heavy If the heavy just stands there the pistol will eventually work, but if the heavy fires back the pistol usually has problems. Same thing with swarms. Also, most handheld guns have lower TTK than tanks do. I wouldn't complain if both tanks and general infantry weapons had their TTK increased. Tactics are always more fun than just getting splattered as soon as one is in range. Engage: enter into conflict or combat with Once again doesn't mean what your saying it means. Heavies fall to sidearm all the time. Harrasment is pointless, Harrasment is to doggedly annoy, annoying a tanker isn't gonna stop him killing me. Suppresion will, but suppresion requires enough damage to make the tanker not want to attack, or severly shorten is available attack time. But by necessity if the swarm does enough damage to suprress it will have enough damage to kill, if the tanker doesn't bug out. Its rather hard to convince a tanker he needs to leave whrn you are only doing 'supplementary' damage. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 297	Posted - 2014.01.04 14:37:00 - [51] - Quote this happened to me and some corpies earlier today, our corp is very new, and most players in it have <10m sp they believed that you cant do well against other players like myself with >20>30>40mil sp so we got into an organised squad and ran some ambush, we won like 8 games straight 3 of which were perfect games (0 clones lost, a few people died but were revived) in our last match we were 46 and they were 18, then a 3 man squad joined the game, ran to redline, called in some militia tanks, and from there they lost about 6 more clones before WE were cloned, swapping to AV became impossible because the enemy infantry were just unloading on any exit area, calling vehicles in is impossible since tanks have super range and can get anywhere almost instantly an item should not be able to beat a well organised squad, we can all agree on this and we always have, teamwork should always be victorious over the few disorganised more expensive suits/vehicles same old argument - you shouldnt be entitled to a win just because yours costs more that statement could never be more true tanks should be slower, MUCH slower, but give them more health - maybe reduce the turret angles a bit so a dropship cant be shotdown even with afterburner while climbing 100m in 3 seconds it also seems quite hard for a dropship to kill a tank unless you have a really good gunner and some decent turrets i thought it was supposed to be infantry > air vehicles air vehicles > ground vehicles ground vehicles > infantry dropships could use some anti armor weapon of sorts
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution 1401	Posted - 2014.01.04 16:51:00 - [52] - Quote tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 0	Posted - 2014.01.04 19:11:00 - [53] - Quote As a tanker I know every map have more than half of objective are untankable witch in city or have cover and every objective have a nice cover to not shot by tank so find it out with a tank because tƒÑs+¦tƒÑs++tÖ+µê¦tÖ+sï¥ Real tanker would get off their tank untill their tank blow up, although not much people can blow up their tank.
thomas mak STRONG-ARMED BANDITS Public Disorder. 0	Posted - 2014.01.04 19:15:00 - [54] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. like 1.0? 10000000 isk for a tank can be killed by a AV guy? Real tanker would get off their tank untill their tank blow up, although not much people can blow up their tank.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1442	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:52:00 - [55] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Now you see I don't agree with that statement, I shouldn't have to skill into tanks to be able to use a tank effectively, more to the point you shouldn't force people to pay through the nose for it. Tanks, Gunships should all be a constant threat on the battlefield, they should be being deployed on a regular basis. But at the same time they should be dying on a regular basis as well, it should be sustainable for people to use at least 2 or so tanks a match. But should be expecting to loose these tanks 2 or 3 times a match. Tanks shouldn't be unstoppable juggernauts of death, no matter how high you price them. Instead the tanks survivability needs to be reduced. That means stacking penalties to hardners and the like, they should be Strong enough to assault a position effectively, to do their vehicle based roles, but weak enough that they can be suppressed with a moderate amount of effort and killed with enough going for the AVer. Tanks are not the be all and end all of warfare. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 658	Posted - 2014.01.05 03:30:00 - [56] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: tanks are broken. unless somone put like 15 mil into a tank and they cost 2.25 mil ISK, they should be nowhere near as powerful as they are. Yes, and no. Wouldnt you agree that there's a hierachy * militia noob fit tank, can usually beat most infantry. * militia noob tank vs militia noob tank, quasi-random who will win * 'good' tank, raw fit (gunlogi/madrugar) vs militia noob tank, good tank should win * militia tank fit with SKILLED UP GEAR, vs empty or poorly fitted gunlogi/madrugar: skilled gear will win. A WELL FIT, non-militia tank... the 200,000+ ISK, gunlogi/madrugar type... can take on 2xmilitia noob tanks, and win, if done mostly one after another. If really good, can take both at the same time. But that's the milllion SP investment. It's nice for potential new players, that it can now be done with around 1mil SP rather than your hypothetical 15mil SP. It's almost equivalent to required investment for proto suits.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1064	Posted - 2014.01.06 00:47:00 - [57] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct solution is not to go into the point as infantry in the first place. What you should have done is called in 6 tanks at the start of the match. Then you would win. Very, very easily. Pauses Dragons Dogma I kind of disagree. The solution I see is a lot of Closed Beta Vets on Killzone(PS4) , other PS4 games or other PS3 games. From my point of view as far as 1.7 is just to not even bother with Dust 514. Perfect win. Goes back to playing Dragons Dogma. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5404	Posted - 2014.01.06 01:17:00 - [58] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So Im on the new craters map, we have just capped C, the above ground small complex right of the facility. Now the Enemy instantly launches a counter attack. Now we have no access to vehicular support. So I now don't have time to set up this strategy you laid out, I can't call to my team to help because they are fending of the infantry So what now? If they bring 1 tank and 2 infantry, against a 6man squad with at least 1 proto swarm. I didn't have 5 mins before that tank came into prepare, so what do I do? I can't afford to wait till his hardners drop because he is shoving his way into the facility. You truly believe that's fair, that a crack team of infantry are gonna loose the point they just capped because ONE guy brought a tank? Proximities to drop him with a rapid alpha, and two swarm launchers will eff up an armour tank. Sub in Forgegunners for the swarms for shields and alpha him as he aproaches to make those proxies have a greater effect. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 429	Posted - 2014.01.06 08:44:00 - [59] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: AV nades only work on stupid tankers very well and not so much on shield tanked HAVs. You need to get close and by that you either get shreddered by the HAV (assuming it was a blaster HAV) or the surrounding infantry you cant shoot and throw at the same time. The HAV in this scenario did his work but to get this balanced the HAV should rather use 5 Infantry mem to support him instead of two, or the HAV should need more than one to operate. In the current state its either tank or loose, the side with more HAVs normally wins. This seems a bit strange for a first person shooter. The waves of oppertunity only works on paper smart HAV pilots simply stack hardeners or reppers to a degree where there is only one giant wave of oppertunity for them. I partly agree a AV HAVs should be the best counter to a AI HAV but I also believe AV infantry should be a counter to at least AV HAVs. That way you have a balance circle. AV Infantry does not need to destroy a HAV but they should be able to take the HAV out of battle for a good amount of time, sadly thats not the case. The pilot can escape and recover too fast or simply recalls his HAV to call in another one. The balance in this regard is horribly off. were not arguing about balance, its clearly unbalanced. were simply detailing an effective and useful stratagy to counter the OPness. AV granades work, you can argue otherwise all you want but all that does is deny you an AV stratagy and doesnt really benifit you at all. its no skin off MY back if you dont use it, but its probably a good idea to try things out before you shoot them down. Yes but they still only work on stupid tankers. The best way for me to counter HAV's is by using RE's, sneaking up behind them place three RE's, throw one or two AV nades and detonatae you RE's. This is enough for most of the HAV's I have encountered. But this is a bit tricky in FW as you can kill yourself by thsi strategy (yes the AV nades will detonate your remotes so be carefully).
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 177	Posted - 2014.01.06 09:16:00 - [60] - Quote What do you do? Hold 'em off from taking the flag while one of your squad sneaks off in the hills, drops in a double damage mod railgun, and wastes the outgunned blaster tank.



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