DUST Search - Passive armor tank on tanks is totally OP

Jason Pearson wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Charlotte O'Dell wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

You can get on a maddy 560HP/s.

Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste.
So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world.

It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly.

Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees.

Edit:
Math derp.
I blame Jason Lol

Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate.

That sir, is tank vs tank.

Tank vs Tank balance isn't in question here.

If tank versus tank is not in question, you can run 3 shield hardeners for a superior effect. Natural resistance to infantry AV and burst damage with the ability to stack. An amped Ion Cannon can pop this fit and also kill infantry, an amped Ion Cannon will not scratch a double hardened Gunnlogi. Rep tanks are strong, but still less OP than hardener tanks, because they have no way to negate alpha damage.

Both are OP, thats beside the point, we've already discussed Hardeners previously.

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ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1946	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:56:00 - [61] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: also 560 on a maddy is impossible . i haz the max skills and 543 .75 is the highest with 3 complex heavy armor reps and even then u can't fit a turret. and i have Fitting optimization 5 for both turret and armor modules. so yea. get your facts straight. :p I'm just wondering, how do you get above 525? Also, yeah, I always forget that the Madrugar can't fit anything while the Gunnlogi can fit pretty much anything it wants. 3 heavy complex boosters.... go! Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1371	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:58:00 - [62] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason My cycled hardeners go the same, except I can stack that rep into thousands of rep to out rep anything with enough time and foreknowledge. Also, since there's a divisive DPS barrier before the subtractive, it has much, much higher resistance to burst damage, along with a natural resistance to AV from infantry. Finally, isn't the maximum 525? 140 * 3 * 1.25 = 525. i just fitted it and read my post. :) Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1896	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:24:00 - [63] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason My cycled hardeners go the same, except I can stack that rep into thousands of rep to out rep anything with enough time and foreknowledge. Also, since there's a divisive DPS barrier before the subtractive, it has much, much higher resistance to burst damage, along with a natural resistance to AV from infantry. Finally, isn't the maximum 525? 140 * 3 * 1.25 = 525. i just fitted it and read my post. :) Bizarre. Well, good to know. I'd play with it later but I don't have complex armor. Got to enhanced then moved to shield tanks. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
GET ATMESON Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 199	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:26:00 - [64] - Quote Lol that tank is poop for nice words. It SOUNDS OP but I know armor tanks that do way better without alot of rep's. 1.7 HMG hotfix works great. Now for more Heavy suits or guns soonGäó
Mortedeamor 1162	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:40:00 - [65] - Quote shuddup no its not shhhh why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
Mortedeamor 1162	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:41:00 - [66] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason ey stfu why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 212	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:44:00 - [67] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Stacking penalty, just like the first reply said. Possibly that stacking repairers causes a delay before repairs actually start? or each additional repper get a 50-75%reduction from the last one
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1896	Posted - 2014.01.01 04:04:00 - [68] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: Lol that tank is poop for nice words. It SOUNDS OP but I know armor tanks that do way better without alot of rep's. Basically, this. Subtractive defense sucks once the threshold is reached. RGs, Missiles and high level Blasters can all punch through it, along with a small amount of explosives or any substantial burst damage. IMO, hardener + 2 reppers is better at overall tanking. The reps when hardened are worth more per point of damage and the divisive barrier on top means burst damage has less effect. You don't need more than 2 reppers against most AV attempts anyway. Let's say my DPS is 1000. 1000 * 0.6 - 350 (might be higher if Bob fits it) = 250 1000 - 543.75 = 556.25 This is assuming you can fit all this and still have a turret and (preferably) high modules, which you cannot according to Bob. The hardened repper Madrugar can take around the same DPS as the repper Madrugar, 600~ and negate it. However, as the damage rises above this, the repper stops having an effect while the hardener of the other Madrugar is still substantially lowering incoming DPS, since one is subtractive and the other is divisive. When the enemy is using an unamped 80GJ Blaster you will not notice a difference but an amped blaster or any of the other turrets have a bigger advantage over the repper tank than the other one. If you want passive invincibility to infantry and unamped blasters like the rep Madrugar has, you're better off just cycling shield hardeners. A single shield hardener + regen negates as much DPS as the three complex reppers and with multiple, you can break the cycle and stack them to further negate burst damage. You can also fit a lot of stuff; high level turrets, rails, missiles, etcetera. I played with CCP yesterday and I just sat there, sponging FG rounds in a 160k tank no problem. There are much better TvT tanks and, considering the nature of TvP at the moment, there's not much point specializing for long term, low DPS. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Jason Pearson 3720	Posted - 2014.01.01 15:02:00 - [69] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Now now lookt at that. When i stated that over 500HP/s armor reps are possible you laughed at me. Now you think its OP aswell lemme guess you used a gunnlogi with 3 hardeners against a madrugar who used 3 reppers and he simply soaked all of your blaster shots like nothing. Then your hardeners went off and you got screwed. I don't use three hardeners Cloud, I'm not that much of a bad tanker. Aye I laughed because I never thought it'd be that high, and then I looked and yeah you're right, and I'll admit you're right and I was was wrong. But it is not OP against another Tank it is OP against Infantry so my Gunnlogi with three hardeners would win because I'm not stupid and run missiles :) - I must apologize to Cat Merc and others, I've been so tired I keep messing up things on a calculator, so please blame me for the numbers Cat Merc had, and also blame rucdoc for not coming along and yelling at me for being wrong. Anyways, to explain the issue further, the only way to kill this fit is through pure alpha alone, it took two proto swarms to take me on yesterday and I was only caught due to the fact I was rolling backwards shooting at them and forgot how bad the Maddys handle. Against any single AVer, you won't win and the only way you can beat them is through the use of multiple AVers or a Tank fitted with a rail/missile turret. Yesterday I chanced upon Darken-Sol in a Caldari Tank, who engaged me and later in a mail told me he was just letting me live out of respect for me and peg being friends, to which I call BS, he ran my fellows, my militia blaster with 3x reps engaged him and pushed him back and he managed to get away due to armor tanks only being good at traveling in a straight line lmao. Anyways, you need a Rail or a Missile tank to kill this thing or you're going to need more people. Now, to the Forge Gunner who wants to have more people take on a tank, I side with the people who disagree with you and against my dear tanker brethren, you see DUST is 16 vs 16, you cannot have any more than that which puts us in a problem, if you have 3 tanks (And it's very easy to find 3 competent tankers and get them in a squad) with a rail for overwatch and two blasters for infantry wiping, you now require at least 6 people to take on these tanks. that means you need 19 vs 16 and you cannot lower these numbers because if a rail is on overwatch he is killing your vehicles before they can even be dropped on the ground. Now don't get me wrong glares at the tankers the waves of opportunity should be in place, with tanks taking on everything for a moment and then running for their lives the next, but this fit breaks it I feel, sure a missile/rail can kill it and some AVers have killed it due to the tanker being ****, but it does work well if you're not an idiot and have another tank as rail support, which is why I think the reps need a slight change, as with shield reps, lower them but add an active module that triples or even quadruples the passive rep in place of a hardener. It is things like this that need to be looked at because if they're strong enough on a standard tank and yet we want more, we want better and bigger, there is no doubt in my mind that we will have a tank that has a stupid amount of reps able to take on everything and anything, or a constantly hardened tank worse than the gunnlogi is right now. You say HTFU, I say look to our future. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 936	Posted - 2014.01.01 15:26:00 - [70] - Quote Even though I agree that dual(trip) rep is powerful, I rate it as not op among my experience. On test environment it may be that other blaster tank just simply can beat full passive rep tank, but battlefield conditions are way different. What is gained in survivability vs one tank or squad of enemy infantry (some AV), is lost vs situations with high alpha. The low EHP is a weakness that cannot be overlooked. Forges are bigger threat than before, and rail tanks are murder. I'd say in open areas dual/trip rep tanks are doing great but open area they are at handicap. Therefore, I see balance there. Tank spam getting onto your nerves? An improvement:

Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution 1372	Posted - 2014.01.01 16:31:00 - [71] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 328	Posted - 2014.01.01 16:33:00 - [72] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Won't rep through MY missile volley. But yes, NERF MADDIES lol (and the gunnlogi while they are at it) Nuff Said
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 1730	Posted - 2014.01.01 16:38:00 - [73] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. Hey! Someone uses their brain in this thread. So about those vehicle locks...
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5229	Posted - 2014.01.01 16:57:00 - [74] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. That sir, is tank vs tank. Tank vs Tank balance isn't in question here. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1981	Posted - 2014.01.01 21:04:00 - [75] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. That sir, is tank vs tank. Tank vs Tank balance isn't in question here. If tank versus tank is not in question, you can run 3 shield hardeners for a superior effect. Natural resistance to infantry AV and burst damage with the ability to stack. An amped Ion Cannon can pop this fit and also kill infantry, an amped Ion Cannon will not scratch a double hardened Gunnlogi. Rep tanks are strong, but still less OP than hardener tanks, because they have no way to negate alpha damage. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Jason Pearson 3725	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:24:00 - [76] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. That sir, is tank vs tank. Tank vs Tank balance isn't in question here. If tank versus tank is not in question, you can run 3 shield hardeners for a superior effect. Natural resistance to infantry AV and burst damage with the ability to stack. An amped Ion Cannon can pop this fit and also kill infantry, an amped Ion Cannon will not scratch a double hardened Gunnlogi. Rep tanks are strong, but still less OP than hardener tanks, because they have no way to negate alpha damage. Both are OP, thats beside the point, we've already discussed Hardeners previously. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 419	Posted - 2014.01.01 22:53:00 - [77] - Quote Eating popcorn as my alt waits for his Sagaris to come back... CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Divu Aakmin Crimson Saints 36	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:12:00 - [78] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. You're not a tanker. Stop trying to dictate how tanking is supposed to go. Tanks shoot infantry ... i am infantry. I want a say in this. Tanks are brick tanked several ways ,anything but forge and RE seems like garbage. BTW tank spam and smart deploy in ambush is pretty frustrating...
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 2001	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:12:00 - [79] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason Until a XT-201 with 2 damage mods shows up and makes it evaporate. That sir, is tank vs tank. Tank vs Tank balance isn't in question here. If tank versus tank is not in question, you can run 3 shield hardeners for a superior effect. Natural resistance to infantry AV and burst damage with the ability to stack. An amped Ion Cannon can pop this fit and also kill infantry, an amped Ion Cannon will not scratch a double hardened Gunnlogi. Rep tanks are strong, but still less OP than hardener tanks, because they have no way to negate alpha damage. Both are OP, thats beside the point, we've already discussed Hardeners previously. They are less OP than hardeners as it is easy enough for other tanks to burst them to death. TvP barely even matters in any good tank with complex modules. 2 reppers + 1 hardener is better in most TvT situations and is only a bit less durable without it's hardener running. Adding the stacking penalties found on other modules (89% for 2) would not fix much, since there's already a generally more useful build with two. Most Madrugar builds are OP versus infantry. If you allowed only 1 hardener and 1 repper, they'd run hardener, repper and plate. Shield tanks can be made OP versus infantry even with 1 hardener. Hardener/boosters/extender and hardener/booster/booster are all nice. I use hardener/booster on my rail Sica. Everything is OP against infantry, pretty much, unless you run all extenders or all plates; AV simply does not do enough damage to compete, especially swarms. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2433	Posted - 2014.01.01 23:18:00 - [80] - Quote With that tank, rail tanks are gonna make you their b**** 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"

Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix 99	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:22:00 - [81] - Quote Its not possible to fit 560 reps on a maddy even with max skills. The most you could fit is 512.50 a neutron blaster you would be 1 cpu off from fitting a ion cannon. Fitting a ion cannon would drop reps down to 481.25 the tank would have 1200 shield 4000 armor.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 98	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:25:00 - [82] - Quote 2 complex heavy reps and armour hardner 4tw 3 complex heavy reps for troll
Ld Collins Titans of Phoenix 99	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:46:00 - [83] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: 2 complex heavy reps and armour hardner 4tw 3 complex heavy reps for troll actually any other tank on the field would completely annihilate a tank with those fits i judt tried both and i was insta killed by a rail tank twice.
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y Public Disorder. 294	Posted - 2014.01.02 01:31:00 - [84] - Quote how dafuq are you even fitting 3 of those???? they take up monster PG


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