DUST Search - Passive armor tank on tanks is totally OP

ladwar wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

ladwar wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

ladwar wrote:

forge= high alpha damage
AFG w/ max skills= 766~ dps( reload excluded). for 9 seconds, this mean you would 2214 past armor repper
swarms= high burst damage
wiyi SL w/ max skills= 1265~ dps (reload excluded). for 4 seconds, this would mean you do 2980 past armor repper
plasma cannon= RPG style
allotek w/ max skills and commando suit maxed= 495~ dps. for as long as you have ammo, this does not beat repper Ugh

this is all without damage mods and nature resistances/bonuses

You keep excluding reload.
You think the tank will just stop regenerating while reloading?
lolno

i also excluded nature bonuses and damage mods... with 2 damage mods a single proto SL could kill a triple repper armor tank before reloading. AFG would have to pound them down much slower.
PLC are well just boned because there wouldn't be a way for them to solo it without anything else.
that DPS is per clip. it shows that swarms can and should be able to wreck them like they should and the rest are at a disadvantage. best way to beat passive is with massive burst damage.

you have been smited Cat merc.

I have been told by Jason's math that fully maxed out swarms with double (or triple don't remember) damage mods do 1800~ to armor.
The fire rate is slightly slower than a missile per second, but let's make it less complicated and say 1 per second.
That means the damage is around 1250~ per volley after the repair.
That means 3750 damage after three volleys.

That's less than the base health of the tank, and while you reload it will repair itself to remove half of that damage.

And that's assuming max skills, proto swarms and damage mods.

he forgot to add the 20% from natural bonus so add another 360 damage per volley

Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

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ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1946	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:01:00 - [31] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: forge= high alpha damage AFG w/ max skills= 766~ dps( reload excluded). for 9 seconds, this mean you would 2214 past armor repper swarms= high burst damage wiyi SL w/ max skills= 1265~ dps (reload excluded). for 4 seconds, this would mean you do 2980 past armor repper plasma cannon= RPG style allotek w/ max skills and commando suit maxed= 495~ dps. for as long as you have ammo, this does not beat repper this is all without damage mods and nature resistances/bonuses You keep excluding reload. You think the tank will just stop regenerating while reloading? lolno i also excluded nature bonuses and damage mods... with 2 damage mods a single proto SL could kill a triple repper armor tank before reloading. AFG would have to pound them down much slower. PLC are well just boned because there wouldn't be a way for them to solo it without anything else. that DPS is per clip. it shows that swarms can and should be able to wreck them like they should and the rest are at a disadvantage. best way to beat passive is with massive burst damage. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc 625	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:03:00 - [32] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Webifiers are one solution another could be EMP grenades that disable all modules and weapons for a short period of time. They are already mentioned and used in the novels so they should be ok... I've read the novels many times over, and there's only 2 references to EMP's, and neither were towards a vehicle. Also, there was no mention of vehicles being disabled by webs. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 438	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:12:00 - [33] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. This is easily countered by forges/rails and missiles. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
Big miku Nation of Miku 318	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:33:00 - [34] - Quote But I've encountered these fits before and destroyed them with a basic rail gun and my Assault Forge Destroyer.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 620	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:39:00 - [35] - Quote Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: EDIT: yes, tanks are rediculous. About as rediculous as reading the 20,000th thread about it. Not as ridiculous as this thread reaching 2 pages, and the subject line still being wrong.
Sgt Kirk Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 3917	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:42:00 - [36] - Quote We need more solutions for AV. WE NEED MORE RESOURCES
Eurydice Itzhak State Patriots Templis CALSF 271	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:45:00 - [37] - Quote With any of my gunnlogi fits, missiles or rail, I could kill the tank with the OPs fit in about 2 seconds. It's a **** fit and thats why you never see it. Youre literally making up issues to cry about now. You couldnt kill my tanks pre 1.7 when 3 av nades would kill me. Or 3 forge shots. or a few swarms. Or a cool breeze. You're bad and you should feel bad. Directed to cat merc of course.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:53:00 - [38] - Quote ladwar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: forge= high alpha damage AFG w/ max skills= 766~ dps( reload excluded). for 9 seconds, this mean you would 2214 past armor repper swarms= high burst damage wiyi SL w/ max skills= 1265~ dps (reload excluded). for 4 seconds, this would mean you do 2980 past armor repper plasma cannon= RPG style allotek w/ max skills and commando suit maxed= 495~ dps. for as long as you have ammo, this does not beat repper this is all without damage mods and nature resistances/bonuses You keep excluding reload. You think the tank will just stop regenerating while reloading? lolno i also excluded nature bonuses and damage mods... with 2 damage mods a single proto SL could kill a triple repper armor tank before reloading. AFG would have to pound them down much slower. PLC are well just boned because there wouldn't be a way for them to solo it without anything else. that DPS is per clip. it shows that swarms can and should be able to wreck them like they should and the rest are at a disadvantage. best way to beat passive is with massive burst damage. you have been smited Cat merc. I have been told by Jason's math that fully maxed out swarms with double (or triple don't remember) damage mods do 1800~ to armor. The fire rate is slightly slower than a missile per second, but let's make it less complicated and say 1 per second. That means the damage is around 1250~ per volley after the repair. That means 3750 damage after three volleys. That's less than the base health of the tank, and while you reload it will repair itself to remove half of that damage. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 316	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:56:00 - [39] - Quote Also, tanks driving over other tanks on a straightaway makes me grr. Amarr HAV Speculation
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:57:00 - [40] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: With any of my gunnlogi fits, missiles or rail, I could kill the tank with the OPs fit in about 2 seconds. It's a ** fit and thats why you never see it. Youre literally making up issues to cry about now. You couldnt kill my tanks pre 1.7 when 3 av nades would kill me. Or 3 forge shots. or a few swarms. Or a cool breeze. You're bad and you should feel bad. Directed to cat merc of course. Ah but you see young human, I have been told by Jason that he actually tried this fit and it's glorious. This "** fit" has worked for him very well. "You couldnt kill my tanks pre 1.7 when 3 av nades would kill me. Or 3 forge shots. or a few swarms. Or a cool breeze." Who says I couldn't? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Eurydice Itzhak State Patriots Templis CALSF 271	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:03:00 - [41] - Quote The three times ive seen you in game (all were in 1.6) I smashed your team and you pulled out av fits and failed to kill me. I was all excited to see a popular forum face only to learn that you were bad. And if Jason has any sucess with that fit its only because the enemy team has no tanks or he is in a squad of other tanks running defence for him. That tank LITERALLY can't survive one salvo or two rail hits. I've also heard he's really good. Good players can do well with bad things. Don't know that its true though. Never seen him in game.
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1946	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:08:00 - [42] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: forge= high alpha damage AFG w/ max skills= 766~ dps( reload excluded). for 9 seconds, this mean you would 2214 past armor repper swarms= high burst damage wiyi SL w/ max skills= 1265~ dps (reload excluded). for 4 seconds, this would mean you do 2980 past armor repper plasma cannon= RPG style allotek w/ max skills and commando suit maxed= 495~ dps. for as long as you have ammo, this does not beat repper this is all without damage mods and nature resistances/bonuses You keep excluding reload. You think the tank will just stop regenerating while reloading? lolno i also excluded nature bonuses and damage mods... with 2 damage mods a single proto SL could kill a triple repper armor tank before reloading. AFG would have to pound them down much slower. PLC are well just boned because there wouldn't be a way for them to solo it without anything else. that DPS is per clip. it shows that swarms can and should be able to wreck them like they should and the rest are at a disadvantage. best way to beat passive is with massive burst damage. you have been smited Cat merc. I have been told by Jason's math that fully maxed out swarms with double (or triple don't remember) damage mods do 1800~ to armor. The fire rate is slightly slower than a missile per second, but let's make it less complicated and say 1 per second. That means the damage is around 1250~ per volley after the repair. That means 3750 damage after three volleys. That's less than the base health of the tank, and while you reload it will repair itself to remove half of that damage. And that's assuming max skills, proto swarms and damage mods. he forgot to add the 20% from natural bonus so add another 360 damage per volley Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:24:00 - [43] - Quote ladwar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ladwar wrote: forge= high alpha damage AFG w/ max skills= 766~ dps( reload excluded). for 9 seconds, this mean you would 2214 past armor repper swarms= high burst damage wiyi SL w/ max skills= 1265~ dps (reload excluded). for 4 seconds, this would mean you do 2980 past armor repper plasma cannon= RPG style allotek w/ max skills and commando suit maxed= 495~ dps. for as long as you have ammo, this does not beat repper this is all without damage mods and nature resistances/bonuses You keep excluding reload. You think the tank will just stop regenerating while reloading? lolno i also excluded nature bonuses and damage mods... with 2 damage mods a single proto SL could kill a triple repper armor tank before reloading. AFG would have to pound them down much slower. PLC are well just boned because there wouldn't be a way for them to solo it without anything else. that DPS is per clip. it shows that swarms can and should be able to wreck them like they should and the rest are at a disadvantage. best way to beat passive is with massive burst damage. you have been smited Cat merc. I have been told by Jason's math that fully maxed out swarms with double (or triple don't remember) damage mods do 1800~ to armor. The fire rate is slightly slower than a missile per second, but let's make it less complicated and say 1 per second. That means the damage is around 1250~ per volley after the repair. That means 3750 damage after three volleys. That's less than the base health of the tank, and while you reload it will repair itself to remove half of that damage. And that's assuming max skills, proto swarms and damage mods. he forgot to add the 20% from natural bonus so add another 360 damage per volley No, that's WITH natural bonus. Without it's 1500~ Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:26:00 - [44] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: The three times ive seen you in game (all were in 1.6) I smashed your team and you pulled out av fits and failed to kill me. I was all excited to see a popular forum face only to learn that you were bad. And if Jason has any sucess with that fit its only because the enemy team has no tanks or he is in a squad of other tanks running defence for him. That tank LITERALLY can't survive one salvo or two rail hits. I've also heard he's really good. Good players can do well with bad things. Don't know that its true though. Never seen him in game. If I failed to kill you, it usually means that infantry were not allowing me to finish you off. If I got into a tank 1v1, I always won pre 1.7. I never claimed that tanks were fine back then, they needed a buff, but 1.7 tanks are an overbuff. P.S My niece sometimes won't leave me alone until I let her play the game I'm playing. Could also be that it was her back then, as I remember her being smashed by a tanker a couple of times. And that she killed a proto dude in a completely militia fit, without using the R3 stick Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 563	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:31:00 - [45] - Quote Missile tanks can alfa repair tanked madrugars. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1 Gêå1; Other DS: 27 Gêå2; Tanks: 25 12/30
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:32:00 - [46] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Missile tanks can alfa repair tanked madrugars. I alphad a hardened madrugar with a missile tank, it's not that difficult. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1946	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:33:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: No, that's WITH natural bonus. Without it's 1500~ lol no its not. do the math. your a bad troll and have been smited. go hide in your little kitten bed before i have to get out the big bad bunny out on you, you know the one. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Slightly-Mental Planetary Research and Investments 24	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:33:00 - [48] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: A webifier would solve the vast majority of our AV woes. Being able to whole tanks in place would allow AV the time needed to do the huge alpha required to kill tanks right now. Think about it. One player webs and another sticks on REs/fires PC/fires FG/many people fire swarms. With one piece of eq CCP could all but rebalance the tanking equation. Throw vamps or some item that stop active modules from function/delays their refreshing and you might make it so a logi becomes a necessary AV tool. +1 AV needs a total rework, and adding more weapons / modules would be a major start. and will be easier to adjust for if and when fighter jets get introduced. this idea also follows the idealistic aspect in eve, webifier/bomber *RE's ect, and bringing in those same kind of roles will open the way squads are made up here in dust, which will in turn bring some freshness into the game. also a side note.. repps should have a stacking penalty, they do eve side and there is no reason not to follow the same ruling.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 563	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:34:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Missile tanks can alfa repair tanked madrugars. I alphad a hardened madrugar with a missile tank, it's not that difficult. It's just sooooo much SP Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1 Gêå1; Other DS: 27 Gêå2; Tanks: 25 12/30
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:37:00 - [50] - Quote ladwar wrote: Cat Merc wrote: No, that's WITH natural bonus. Without it's 1500~ lol no its not. do the math. your a bad troll and have been smited. go hide in your little kitten bed before i have to get out the big bad bunny out on you, you know the one. Well then, doing the math for myself, it appears Jason has made a mistake somewhere. 220 * 1.337 (Proficiency and two damage mods one with stacking penalty) * 6 missiles = 1764 Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Lonewolf Heavy ROGUE SPADES 13	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:42:00 - [51] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: You should be able to solo a HAV. This fit is ridiculous, but we're hitting a problem. By nerfing reps you break other fits that use a single rep, it's always going to be a massive issue. We need more equipment for AVers, Weapon Jammers, Webifiers, things that reduce HP regeneration for both Armor and Shields. etc. Wait a second. did you seriously just say a person should be able to SOLO A TANK. Think about this for a second and then HTFU. Im a forge gunner and even i believe it should take at least 2 people to take down a tank. But other then that I do agree with the rest of those things you mention. Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5223	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:42:00 - [52] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You should be able to solo a HAV. This fit is ridiculous, but we're hitting a problem. By nerfing reps you break other fits that use a single rep, it's always going to be a massive issue. We need more equipment for AVers, Weapon Jammers, Webifiers, things that reduce HP regeneration for both Armor and Shields. etc. Wait a second. did you seriously just say a person should be able to SOLO A TANK. Think about this for a second and then HTFU. Im a forge gunner and even i believe it should take at least 2 people to take down a tank. But other then that I do agree with the rest of those things you mention. That tank is operated by a single person, so it should take a single person to take it down. Simple isn't it? Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Eurydice Itzhak State Patriots Templis CALSF 271	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:47:00 - [53] - Quote If av can solo blaster tanks again rail and missile tanks are completely without a job. Again. Stop crying. Squad up. Git gud.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 396	Posted - 2014.01.01 01:50:00 - [54] - Quote The funny thing about armor reps is that you can heal faster than shield and do it constantly... Blatant Dust_514 recruiting in the silliest of places. :P
Lorhak Gannarsein 952	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:01:00 - [55] - Quote FML. Jason, next time you post it, cos it'll save half the QQ. "Oh look, it's Cat Merc! He doesn't play tanks! What does he know? Who cares that this game is basically applied mathematics! WAHWAHWAHWAHWAH". I mean, Jesus Christ. All you people saying "Oh my TANK fitted with TANK weapons can kill it in SUPERQUICKNOTIMEATALL!"! That is the whole point. It is a fitting that CANNOT be soloed, unless the tanker is a moron, and waves his arse at you for twenty seconds. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 563	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:10:00 - [56] - Quote medomai grey wrote: The funny thing about armor reps is that you can heal faster than shield and do it constantly... ...but you're more susceptible to weapons with high alpha such as missiles, rails, and forge guns. It's give and take. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 1 Gêå1; Other DS: 27 Gêå2; Tanks: 25 12/30
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1370	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:28:00 - [57] - Quote also 560 on a maddy is impossible . i haz the max skills and 543 .75 is the highest with 3 complex heavy armor reps and even then u can't fit a turret. and i have Fitting optimization 5 for both turret and armor modules. so yea. get your facts straight. :p Main - BobThe843CakeMan Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details. Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1878	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:38:00 - [58] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: You can get on a maddy 560HP/s. Assuming someone firing EVERY SINGLE SECOND NONSTOP, he would have to reload, and ALL the damage he did would go to waste. So basically, this maddy can eat up all the swarms in the world. It's hard to argue that this isn't OP honestly. Even Jason Pearson on IRC agrees. Edit: Math derp. I blame Jason My cycled hardeners go the same, except I can stack that rep into thousands of rep to out rep anything with enough time and foreknowledge. Also, since there's a divisive DPS barrier before the subtractive, it has much, much higher resistance to burst damage, along with a natural resistance to AV from infantry. Finally, isn't the maximum 525? 140 * 3 * 1.25 = 525. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 146	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:43:00 - [59] - Quote my proto rail and blaster thinks differently. your nothing without resistant. i tried this build THE FIRST DAY. worked for awhile, then i ran into proto rails and swarms. VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1884	Posted - 2014.01.01 02:48:00 - [60] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: also 560 on a maddy is impossible . i haz the max skills and 543 .75 is the highest with 3 complex heavy armor reps and even then u can't fit a turret. and i have Fitting optimization 5 for both turret and armor modules. so yea. get your facts straight. :p I'm just wondering, how do you get above 525? Also, yeah, I always forget that the Madrugar can't fit anything while the Gunnlogi can fit pretty much anything it wants. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.



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