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What do you mean tanks are balanced?

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Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 739	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:40:00 - [1] - Quote I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2763	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:42:00 - [2] - Quote The horde... is among us ...
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 653	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:47:00 - [3] - Quote question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits?
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 739	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:48:00 - [4] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits? No, friend. I run a balanced scout suit. I have not CPU for nades or high slots. Honest answer. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 654	Posted - 2013.12.30 00:53:00 - [5] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits? No, friend. I run a balanced scout suit. I have not CPU for nades or high slots. Honest answer. i apreciate that honesty :P as a scout you are exempted from the whoel AV nade thing. to answer your main msot, most tankers dont actually think its balanced at the moment. acceleration is way to high, and multiple hardenres make the whole windows of opotunity design mechanic that was supposed to balance things pretty much non exsistant. a few other things sqew things slightly but thats basically it. pre 1.7 AV was imbalanced not really so much because of the numbers but rather because the infantry was invisable. now that everythings been re-tuned we cant really tell how things are numbers wise because the acceleration and perma hardeners are not alowing for an accurate measurement of effectivness. in the meantime while we wait for the fixes (wich will be a while) everyone really should be putting AV nades on their suits if they arnt a scout. if you run in a squad with everyone equiped wiuth AV nades you can hold the city points easily and tanks cant go near you so it alieviates alot of the problems people are having. having an uplink scout in your squad is important though so keep up the good work sir, the game needs more scouts like you.
Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 631	Posted - 2013.12.30 01:18:00 - [6] - Quote [Sarcasm] Lol dude ... You're bad at this game ... Tanks are balanced, getgood [/Sarcasm] Tanks are destroying the already scarse playerbase... making them stop playing the game... Tanks 514! Cheap, fast, Indestrucbible and you see tankers telling it's balanced... Just makes you want to quit this BS
JuGGeR Lancaster Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.12.30 01:29:00 - [7] - Quote Very true, I live to seeing more proto swarms on the field, using proto subs. They deal a great punch on tanks with good timing. I always look at my squad and ask at least 3 of the 6 to use some sort of AV. let it be a scout running explosives/mines, swarms, nade av, forge gun. People under estimate the effectiveness of the secondary weapons. (except for the flaylock pistol that's broken as hell, lol) aka also known as the "marshmallow gun"
Beck Weathers Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 208	Posted - 2013.12.30 01:52:00 - [8] - Quote As A pretty decent tanker, i get chased off by 2-3 guys switching to swarm launchers and or AV nades quite often, do i come back after i have reped and my hardener has cooled down, you bet cha, but thats is almost exactly what CCP said they intended. Have us scammper off and have to come back. The main issue atm with thanks is fits with multiplue hardeners (which i never run) letting their amount of run away or cool down time be almost none existant. Now the weird part is when 8-12 gys on the enemy team switch to swarm launchers and for some reason our blueberrys still cant hold an objective, even tho a guy bobbing around shootign a tank with a swarm launcher is almost the easyest thing to kill for a footslogger
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5304	Posted - 2013.12.30 01:56:00 - [9] - Quote But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2639	Posted - 2013.12.30 03:58:00 - [10] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. AV does stop you though. It just doesn't kill you. There is a difference you need to learn to respect.

Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc 615	Posted - 2013.12.30 04:06:00 - [11] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits? No, friend. I run a balanced scout suit. I have not CPU for nades or high slots. Honest answer. i appreciate that honesty :P as a scout you are exempted from the whole AV nade thing. multiple hardeners . 1: I use AV on Scout suits all the time, more so than my Assault AV fit.. He's not exempted from jack **. 2: Multiple hardeners ar not the problem. The fact that the cooldowns are so short on them is. Armor isn't as bad as shields (only due to not being able to fit all complex modules on a Soma/Maddy), but both need longer ones. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___**^
Void Echo Total Extinction 2304	Posted - 2013.12.30 04:09:00 - [12] - Quote funny because before 1.7 tanks weren't worth ****, now they are too cheap lol. Youtube Closed Beta Player I trust nobody but myself.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2778	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:12:00 - [13] - Quote Void Echo wrote: funny because before 1.7 tanks weren't worth ****, now they are too cheap lol. 1.5-2mil you got a lot of BANG for your BUCK back then. Even before 1.7, me pulling out my AV fit even once would guarantee that I wouldn't turn a profit unless I become Super Logibro for the rest of the match. That is of course, unless you hid in the redline like a b!tch. I fail to see your point. ...
ladwar Death by Disassociation 1940	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:23:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: funny because before 1.7 tanks weren't worth ****, now they are too cheap lol. 1.5-2mil you got a lot of BANG for your BUCK back then. Even before 1.7, me pulling out my AV fit even once would guarantee that I wouldn't turn a profit unless I become Super Logibro for the rest of the match. That is of course, unless you hid in the redline like a b!tch. I fail to see your point. i ran a profit every time i run my av fit and i usually kill atleast 1 vehicle when i do and 1.7 hasn't changed anything. i fail to see how your av suit doesn't run a profit. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Justice Darling Expert Intervention Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:31:00 - [15] - Quote maybe what is needed is a add on to a gun or some kind of nade that makes the tanks stick to the spot or drops there over all speed to really nothing like an emp grande that shorts out their tracks
Jason Pearson 3688	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:35:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: funny because before 1.7 tanks weren't worth ****, now they are too cheap lol. 1.5-2mil you got a lot of BANG for your BUCK back then. Even before 1.7, me pulling out my AV fit even once would guarantee that I wouldn't turn a profit unless I become Super Logibro for the rest of the match. That is of course, unless you hid in the redline like a b!tch. I fail to see your point. Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Zaria for Miss Universe 2014
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2786	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:38:00 - [17] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ Because having situational awareness and not driving straight into infantry was so hard. Also: Active Scanners ...
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5304	Posted - 2013.12.30 06:46:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ Because having situational awareness and not driving straight into infantry was so hard. Also: Active Scanners Because shooting swarms out to 400m while remaining impossible to hit and invisible was so hard. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 740	Posted - 2013.12.30 07:24:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5304	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:41:00 - [20] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2090	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:50:00 - [21] - Quote Tanks are fine Intelligence is OP
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1830	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:53:00 - [22] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. I was grinding ISK on my 1.6m SP alt today. 100k SP into tanks. I used a Soma in an otherwise pretty equal Skirmish. I went 39/3 with 3000 WP, popped several enemy tanks and they had a full squad of AV that couldn't do jack all. I just went in circles, popping everything and everyone. That was a pretty good game for me, I'll admit. Still, I feel they are very much OP at the moment. When was the last time I went 39/3 with 3000 WP in a militia suit? Not any time within recent memory. There's a real risk when I engage someone that I will get killed. In my tank with it's shiny instant death near unlimited range Blaster, there is no risk in a good tank, unless another STD tank tries to pop me. With militia tanks, I need to worry about Forge Guns and several Swarm Launchers at once hitting me at once. Other than that, as long as I do a few circles I'm golden. Don't even get me started on Ambush where I consistently get 20+ kills with no deaths in 50 clone matches unless the enemy stomps my tank with another tank. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5305	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:59:00 - [23] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. I was grinding ISK on my 1.6m SP alt today. 100k SP into tanks. I used a Soma in an otherwise pretty equal Skirmish. I went 39/3 with 3000 WP, popped several enemy tanks and they had a full squad of AV that couldn't do jack all. I just went in circles, popping everything and everyone. That was a pretty good game for me, I'll admit. Still, I feel they are very much OP at the moment. When was the last time I went 39/3 with 3000 WP in a militia suit? Not any time within recent memory. There's a real risk when I engage someone that I will get killed. In my tank with it's shiny instant death near unlimited range Blaster, there is no risk in a good tank, unless another STD tank tries to pop me. With militia tanks, I need to worry about Forge Guns and several Swarm Launchers at once hitting me at once. Other than that, as long as I do a few circles I'm golden. Don't even get me started on Ambush where I consistently get 20+ kills with no deaths in 50 clone matches unless the enemy stomps my tank with another tank. EDIT: First death was to a Rail Gun installation, unmanned, that popped me right at the start. I killed it. 2nd was because the supply depot glitched and wouldn't give me ammo, got stuck on a concrete barrier as I was circling around it praying for it to unglitch. 3rd was on the ground at the end when I stopped tanking after that. I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points.... Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match. Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1034	Posted - 2013.12.30 10:59:00 - [24] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Then why are player counts LOWER?? Tanks are fine?? Waits for April just to see what the fanboys are going to post....LOL!! Just waiting for the fanboy meltdown threads as player counts drop. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1034	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:01:00 - [25] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. I was grinding ISK on my 1.6m SP alt today. 100k SP into tanks. I used a Soma in an otherwise pretty equal Skirmish. I went 39/3 with 3000 WP, popped several enemy tanks and they had a full squad of AV that couldn't do jack all. I just went in circles, popping everything and everyone. That was a pretty good game for me, I'll admit. Still, I feel they are very much OP at the moment. When was the last time I went 39/3 with 3000 WP in a militia suit? Not any time within recent memory. There's a real risk when I engage someone that I will get killed. In my tank with it's shiny instant death near unlimited range Blaster, there is no risk in a good tank, unless another STD tank tries to pop me. With militia tanks, I need to worry about Forge Guns and several Swarm Launchers at once hitting me at once. Other than that, as long as I do a few circles I'm golden. Don't even get me started on Ambush where I consistently get 20+ kills with no deaths in 50 clone matches unless the enemy stomps my tank with another tank. No. If the enemy has seven good tanks then they will clone you. DEFEAT. End of story. EDIT: First death was to a Rail Gun installation, unmanned, that popped me right at the start. I killed it. 2nd was because the supply depot glitched and wouldn't give me ammo, got stuck on a concrete barrier as I was circling around it praying for it to unglitch. 3rd was on the ground at the end when I stopped tanking after that. I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points.... Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match. Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match. Forum ate my post.....bah Bolded instead.......bah! Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2090	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:09:00 - [26] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Then why are player counts LOWER?? Tanks are fine?? Waits for April just to see what the fanboys are going to post....LOL!! Just waiting for the fanboy meltdown threads as player counts drop. lol Trying to blame tanks for lower player counts Pull your head out of your arse Intelligence is OP
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1830	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:22:00 - [27] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points.... Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match. Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match. I get out and hack. In fact, I hack far more points than most infantry. In a close match, I often have 4-6 hacks. I get out, hack, place uplinks, etcetera. Once you clear out the enemy, the goal is to prevent them from getting through the gates. If 1.8 brings an infantry respec I'm speccing right into Minmatar Logistics for the hacking speed bonus and using it with Code Breakers. One match against Molon we were being completely dominated because no one was hacking. I drove around the back, placed uplinks, hacked a point, flipped the points C -> D -> C as they defended their frontline until it took. We held it and, although we lost, we were damn close to winning for most of the match. 20/3, 3000 WP. That means I got 2000 WP from hacks, spawns and installation/tank destruction, of which there were few. If I have tank superiority, I will almost assuredly win. It's a very rare match where our team is the only one with tanks/many more tanks and we lose. I won 12 matches in a row stomping with Nyain San in Skirmish and Ambush. Tank spam is extremely difficult to beat once it reached high levels; moreso than any other role combination. Tanks are a role, just like any other. Can I deploy 6 Scouts that kill tanks, infantry at any range, regenerate in seconds and are immune to 95% of infantry weaponry? No, that'd be unfair, because whoever had more Scouts would win. It's not even about tactics; it's about choosing to simply squad with tankers instead of infantry. "Skirmish, Tankers Only" will fill with pilots and then you'll win 80% of matches with little communication until you meet another tank squad, even in militia tanks. Can you lose with tank superiority? Yes, you can. Usually it's simply because the enemy is vastly superior or the map is one of the few which favors infantry. I cannot remember the last time I've squadded with several good tankers (not Sicas) and lost a match and that's what I've been doing for most of the week while grinding ISK. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 173	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:23:00 - [28] - Quote So the fact that everyone is forcef to have AV nadedes fitted don't imply that tanks are OP? It's utter and TOTALY bs that every one is forced to go AV. That leaves the player base to be what ! Tankers and AV players ! The only resone that some of us is still here is A The time invested I this game B We are just w8ing to get our hands on a ps4 As for me I will leave when I unpack ps4 and never look back. Regards War never changes
Piraten Hovnoret No Tax Scrubs 176	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:34:00 - [29] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: True Adamance wrote: I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points.... Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match. Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match. I get out and hack. In fact, I hack far more points than most infantry. In a close match, I often have 4-6 hacks. I get out, hack, place uplinks, etcetera. Once you clear out the enemy, the goal is to prevent them from getting through the gates. If 1.8 brings an infantry respec I'm speccing right into Minmatar Logistics for the hacking speed bonus and using it with Code Breakers. One match against Molon we were being completely dominated because no one was hacking. I drove around the back, placed uplinks, hacked a point, flipped the points C -> D -> C as they defended their frontline until it took. We held it and, although we lost, we were damn close to winning for most of the match. 20/3, 3000 WP. That means I got 2000 WP from hacks, spawns and installation/tank destruction, of which there were few. If I have tank superiority, I will almost assuredly win. It's a very rare match where our team is the only one with tanks/many more tanks and we lose. I won 12 matches in a row stomping with Nyain San in Skirmish and Ambush. Tank spam is extremely difficult to beat once it reached high levels; moreso than any other role combination. Tanks are a role, just like any other. Can I deploy 6 Scouts that kill tanks, infantry at any range, regenerate in seconds and are immune to 95% of infantry weaponry? No, that'd be unfair, because whoever had more Scouts would win. It's not even about tactics; it's about choosing to simply squad with tankers instead of infantry. "Skirmish, Tankers Only" will fill with pilots and then you'll win 80% of matches with little communication until you meet another tank squad, even in militia tanks. Can you lose with tank superiority? Yes, you can. Usually it's simply because the enemy is vastly superior or the map is one of the few which favors infantry. I cannot remember the last time I've squadded with several good tankers (not Sicas) and lost a match and that's what I've been doing for most of the week while grinding ISK. War never changes
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 408	Posted - 2013.12.30 11:41:00 - [30] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits? No, friend. I run a balanced scout suit. I have not CPU for nades or high slots. Honest answer. i apreciate that honesty :P as a scout you are exempted from the whoel AV nade thing. to answer your main msot, most tankers dont actually think its balanced at the moment. acceleration is way to high, and multiple hardenres make the whole windows of opotunity design mechanic that was supposed to balance things pretty much non exsistant. a few other things sqew things slightly but thats basically it. pre 1.7 AV was imbalanced not really so much because of the numbers but rather because the infantry was invisable. now that everythings been re-tuned we cant really tell how things are numbers wise because the acceleration and perma hardeners are not alowing for an accurate measurement of effectivness. in the meantime while we wait for the fixes (wich will be a while) everyone really should be putting AV nades on their suits if they arnt a scout. if you run in a squad with everyone equiped wiuth AV nades you can hold the city points easily and tanks cant go near you so it alieviates alot of the problems people are having. having an uplink scout in your squad is important though so keep up the good work sir, the game needs more scouts like you. I not sure if AV nades the better choice or flux, a flux scares the hell out of most HAV pilots. I can't destroy them with a flux but I can use a flux for more than AV duties...

Tau Lai Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 7	Posted - 2013.12.30 12:40:00 - [31] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. This. THIIIISSS!!!
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 462	Posted - 2013.12.30 12:56:00 - [32] - Quote What's most surprising is that evidently in every match only one side is using HAVs. You'd think that with one side having four HAVs your side would have at least one or two to help the loads of AV you always insist you have.
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 760	Posted - 2013.12.30 13:19:00 - [33] - Quote LMAO CCP went through this before when they banned zdogg from calling in tanks because it was causing players to quit. Its quite amusing watch CCP make the same mistakes build after build. STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 516	Posted - 2013.12.30 13:32:00 - [34] - Quote @ op - The tank vs tank meta is pretty balanced but swarms especially are very underpowered. Forges work a lot better but still can struggle a little bit at times. I suggest we reduce tank speed a little bit in the interest of fairness, as well as allow only a single hardener. To be honest I hate hardeners even when I am on my tank alt. Its way too boring. "Oh look that guy has his hardener on, ok I will just sit back 30 or what ever seconds and wait for it to turn off, then I'll go shoot him." I dunno I just dislike that whole idea. Also damage mods on tanks are a little random too, the noob level basic ones do the same as the complex ones apart from the recharge time. That doesn't sit too well with me.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7679	Posted - 2013.12.30 14:02:00 - [35] - Quote Tanks escape too fast with their escapes, and there is no way to slow them down. It makes whatever damage you do to them meaningless since they'll just escape and regenerate to max health and be back in a minute or less as if nothing even happened. Blaster tanks are also too devastatingly effective against infantry, without sacrificing effectiveness against other vehicles. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 668	Posted - 2013.12.30 14:05:00 - [36] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Good post, but how can you someone even show up in a 50k suit. Mine costs over 150k and i cant even scratch a soma...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 668	Posted - 2013.12.30 14:14:00 - [37] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Tanks are alright may be. But comparing a militia tank to proto AV... then i'd have to say tanks are lolFine and lolBalanced....
Leonid Tybalt Dark Knightz Corp. 69	Posted - 2013.12.30 14:15:00 - [38] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Yes, like it's supposed to be. Because those days where ONE measly infantry-guy could take out a tank completely on his own was just plain ridiculous.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1043	Posted - 2013.12.30 14:55:00 - [39] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: question.... do you equip AV granades on all your suits? I do. they bounce off. I've switched to flux nades because at least they scare off the tanks.
Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 28	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:45:00 - [40] - Quote I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter

The Attorney General 1715	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:50:00 - [41] - Quote Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5180	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:55:00 - [42] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. AV does stop you though. It just doesn't kill you. There is a difference you need to learn to respect. It stops you for 20 seconds at best. At worst it doesn't stop you at all. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1807	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:56:00 - [43] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. the tanker motto isn't much different... tankers want a death machine that takes half a team to kill and costs less than one of those attackers fits.... I find it so funny when tankers expect exactly what they knock AVers for requesting.... this game makes me sad....
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 49	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:56:00 - [44] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. I was grinding ISK on my 1.6m SP alt today. 100k SP into tanks. I used a Soma in an otherwise pretty equal Skirmish. I went 39/3 with 3000 WP, popped several enemy tanks and they had a full squad of AV that couldn't do jack all. I just went in circles, popping everything and everyone. That was a pretty good game for me, I'll admit. Still, I feel they are very much OP at the moment. When was the last time I went 39/3 with 3000 WP in a militia suit? Not any time within recent memory. There's a real risk when I engage someone that I will get killed. In my tank with it's shiny instant death near unlimited range Blaster, there is no risk in a good tank, unless another STD tank tries to pop me. With militia tanks, I need to worry about Forge Guns and several Swarm Launchers at once hitting me at once. Other than that, as long as I do a few circles I'm golden. Don't even get me started on Ambush where I consistently get 20+ kills with no deaths in 50 clone matches unless the enemy stomps my tank with another tank. EDIT: First death was to a Rail Gun installation, unmanned, that popped me right at the start. I killed it. 2nd was because the supply depot glitched and wouldn't give me ammo, got stuck on a concrete barrier as I was circling around it praying for it to unglitch. 3rd was on the ground at the end when I stopped tanking after that. I did the same thing with pretty much the same result
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5180	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:58:00 - [45] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. Then what about all of those tankers that claim AV grenades alone actually work? Someone is lying, and I doubt it's you. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 29	Posted - 2013.12.30 15:59:00 - [46] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. Exactly right they are about as effective as a sidearm and people should stop advocating their use in 1.7. AV nades are completely useless against tanks period. "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 259	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:01:00 - [47] - Quote I certainly think some more work needs to be done with tanks, they seem to run riot right now, to fast , to many and a little OP. One game today, a domination, 6 tanks and a DS too. No need to guess who won that one lol. . __ `/.)\ Nade \| Scan Attempt Prevented \| 33 mill SP \__/ 514 \| NFP Prime League Winner\| Longest Kill 588 Mtr`
The Attorney General 1715	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:03:00 - [48] - Quote Mitch Laurence wrote: Exactly right they are about as effective as a sidearm and people should stop advocating their use in 1.7. AV nades are completely useless against tanks period. Why the hyperbole? I advocate using AV nades on every AV fit you create, because they add substantially to your total damage output. They are not a primary AV weapon, but they are greatly effective as a supplement. Example: Call in a LAV, grab a forge fit with AV nades. Drive to the tank, bail, sending the LAV into the tank. Proceed to throw two or three nades, depending on if the tank has actually started to target you. Proceed to destroy the vehicle with the Forge gun. Before 1.7 dropped, it was extremely easy for anyone with AV nades to be a super tank destroyer, especially in pairs. Stopping that type of mechanic was an improvement in the vehicle - anti vehicle fight balance. This is not to say that other things don't need to be adjusted, because they do, but AV nades are not one of them. They actually function very well as supplemental AV. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9409	Posted - 2013.12.30 16:41:00 - [49] - Quote Lol @ militia anything. Give us VR training room, scrap militia entirely. Videos "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" ~ Sun Tzu
The Attorney General 1715	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:01:00 - [50] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. the tanker motto isn't much different... tankers want a death machine that takes half a team to kill and costs less than one of those attackers fits.... I find it so funny when tankers expect exactly what they knock AVers for requesting.... I don't think you understand that there are two very different dynamics that need to be accounted for. The first is the viability of any given tank fit versus infantry, and the second is the viability of that same fit versus other tanks. A tank can be good at one, but only by trading away effectiveness at the other. Tankers are very much forced to decide when they call out their tank what they want to be. They can either be very good at killing infantry, or very good at killing vehicles, but not both. In any situation where you have a tank that you can't seem to take out with AV, that tank would get rolled very quickly by a rail tank. Stop trying to distill everything down to tankers want to be god mode. It isn't accurate, it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a b*tch. Start contributing something instead of being a crybaby. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.

Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 30	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:07:00 - [51] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: Exactly right they are about as effective as a sidearm and people should stop advocating their use in 1.7. AV nades are completely useless against tanks period. Why the hyperbole? I advocate using AV nades on every AV fit you create, because they add substantially to your total damage output. They are not a primary AV weapon, but they are greatly effective as a supplement. Example: Call in a LAV, grab a forge fit with AV nades. Drive to the tank, bail, sending the LAV into the tank. Proceed to throw two or three nades, depending on if the tank has actually started to target you. Proceed to destroy the vehicle with the Forge gun. Before 1.7 dropped, it was extremely easy for anyone with AV nades to be a super tank destroyer, especially in pairs. Stopping that type of mechanic was an improvement in the vehicle - anti vehicle fight balance. This is not to say that other things don't need to be adjusted, because they do, but AV nades are not one of them. They actually function very well as supplemental AV. What'd you just call me? lol j/k. But seriously I'm not exaggerating. While AV nade spam used to be a viable tactic for dealing with tanks it simply is not now. To be clear I don't mean just those 3 nades in your inventory, I mean literally standing on a hive and throwing out 6-7 in sequence. I thought we were on the same page but we're not. Sure in your example, when combined with a myriad of weapons, equipment, vehicles and precise tactics AV nades can make a difference. But the reality of accomplishing a feat like you described on a routine basis is simply unrealistic. AV grenades are supposed to be an effective weapon to use against vehicles, just like locus grenades are supposed to be an effective weapon against infantry. The truth is that AV grenades are not an effective weapon against most tanks and even some dropships now. That needs to change. "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
The Attorney General 1715	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:17:00 - [52] - Quote Mitch Laurence wrote: What'd you just call me? lol j/k. But seriously I'm not exaggerating. While AV nade spam used to be a viable tactic for dealing with tanks it simply is not now. To be clear I don't mean just those 3 nades in your inventory, I mean literally standing on a hive and throwing out 6-7 in sequence. I thought we were on the same page but we're not. Sure in your example, when combined with a myriad of weapons, equipment, vehicles and precise tactics AV nades can make a difference. But the reality of accomplishing a feat like you described on a routine basis is simply unrealistic. AV grenades are supposed to be an effective weapon to use against vehicles, just like locus grenades are supposed to be an effective weapon against infantry. The truth is that AV grenades are not an effective weapon against most tanks and even some dropships now. That needs to change. I never thought AV nade spam should have been a viable tactic, but that is my own opinion. I don't think that using AV nades requires much of anything else. The LAV for me is BPO, although you could use a MLT one for almost no ISK output. It just has to be a cheap chariot to ferry the fat suit and forge around. Precise tactics are not required, just some basic thought. Things like: - Do not drive directly at a vehicle that is looking at you. - Do not swerve back and forth while driving towards a tank that is potentially shooting at you. - Do drive laterally to outpace turret traverse before engaging in combat with a tank and so on. Cheap lav, cheap suit, expensive gun and grenades. Gets the job done consistently, and solo. Need to fight tank spam? Bring along a logi with their own AV nades and hives and watch the fireworks. It really boils down to your definition of what AV nades should do. I do not think they should be able to used as a primary AV weapon. Right now, they cannot, but they make a fantastic damage supplement, which is exactly how I think they should be. Obviously you feel differently, and I would be curious to hear why you think that it makes for good game balance for someone to be able to carry an AR and a vehicle killing grenade. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2828	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:18:00 - [53] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Yes, like it's supposed to be. Because those days where ONE measly infantry-guy could take out a tank completely on his own was just plain ridiculous. How was it ridiculous? It only took one person to operate the tank, so it only took one person to destroy the tank. 1=1 not 1>3-6 That's balance. ...
Walmart Door Greeter Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:45:00 - [54] - Quote I'm at the point now when I see more than 4 red tanks around an objective I leave battle immediately. Just SO tired of it. Some say "oh just spawn a tank to fight them"... dude I play world of tanks and I'm ranked globally 400th, its a much better tank game with every part of angled armor, deflection and even internal components accurately modelled , if I want to tank I play WOT. This has become 'World of 514 Tanks' and it's absurd.
Mitch Laurence The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 31	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:14:00 - [55] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Obviously you feel differently, and I would be curious to hear why you think that it makes for good game balance for someone to be able to carry an AR and a vehicle killing grenade. Do I think tanks should be weak? No Do I think tanks should have weaknesses? Yes Do I think that there should be a direct correlation between a tank's weakness and AV weapons in general? Yes Do I think that 3 AV nades should blow up a tank? No, but what about 9? How about 15? The balance is that after you blow all your ammo hives on nades and run out of primary ammo you're rendered useless until you find someone else's hive or run to a supply depot. The imbalance is that even if you did land all 9 nades the tank isn't even damaged enough to justify the use AV nades. At a minimum AV nades should be a deterrent, currently they are not. "People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
The Attorney General 1715	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:25:00 - [56] - Quote Mitch Laurence wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Obviously you feel differently, and I would be curious to hear why you think that it makes for good game balance for someone to be able to carry an AR and a vehicle killing grenade. Do I think tanks should be weak? No Do I think tanks should have weaknesses? Yes Do I think that there should be a direct correlation between a tank's weakness and AV weapons in general? Yes Do I think that 3 AV nades should blow up a tank? No, but what about 9? How about 15? The balance is that after you blow all your ammo hives on nades and run out of primary ammo you're rendered useless until you find someone else's hive or run to a supply depot. The imbalance is that even if you did land all 9 nades the tank isn't even damaged enough to justify the use AV nades. At a minimum AV nades should be a deterrent, currently they are not. I think we need to talk about fits here. There are certain Madrugar fits that can be built with a very high rate of repair. These types of fits are highly effective against infantry, but extremely weak versus other vehicles. An all rep madrugar gets absolutely pummeled by a Missile tank, or a rail gun, but is very strong against infantry based attacks unless there are enough people to produce high alpha strikes. This requires multiple people, or one of the previously mentioned vehicles. Having a discussion about if such a fit should be is a wholly different topic, but is a discussion worth having. Is it good for balance that a Madrugar can make a fit that can rep over 400hp/s? I don't think so, but we will have to see what CCP thinks on that. There are a lot of factors in play, not just simply that AV nades are weak. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1814	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:16:00 - [57] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. the tanker motto isn't much different... tankers want a death machine that takes half a team to kill and costs less than one of those attackers fits.... I find it so funny when tankers expect exactly what they knock AVers for requesting.... I don't think you understand that there are two very different dynamics that need to be accounted for. The first is the viability of any given tank fit versus infantry, and the second is the viability of that same fit versus other tanks. A tank can be good at one, but only by trading away effectiveness at the other. Tankers are very much forced to decide when they call out their tank what they want to be. They can either be very good at killing infantry, or very good at killing vehicles, but not both. In any situation where you have a tank that you can't seem to take out with AV, that tank would get rolled very quickly by a rail tank. Stop trying to distill everything down to tankers want to be god mode. It isn't accurate, it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a btch. Start contributing something instead of being a crybaby. stop trying to lump all of us who want balance into the "QQ tanks are hard" category , it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a btch. what AVers want is the ability, with skill to take out a tank solo, because an AVer needs to make the same choice a tank does, do I get in my AV suit and kill vehicles leaving me vulnerable to both infantry and vehicles or do I go infantry giving me no chance against the tanks. as infantry I should be able to choose to run av nades and either proxies or RE'S AND TAKE OUT A TANK SOLO, WITH SKILL....not QQ...fact. this game makes me sad....
The Attorney General 1716	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:46:00 - [58] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: stop trying to lump all of us who want balance into the "QQ tanks are hard" category , it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a b*tch. what AVers want is the ability, with skill to take out a tank solo, because an AVer needs to make the same choice a tank does, do I get in my AV suit and kill vehicles leaving me vulnerable to both infantry and vehicles or do I go infantry giving me no chance against the tanks. as infantry I should be able to choose to run av nades and either proxies or RE'S AND TAKE OUT A TANK SOLO, WITH SKILL....not QQ...fact. With a FG and nades, every tank goes down. You want to run a rifle and an av fit at the same time. So you want the best of both worlds. Which makes you a scrub. Choose either AV or anti infantry, you don't get both anymore, and thank CCP for finally coming to their sense about it. If you think you should be able to have a rifle and a potent AV fit on the same suit, you are delusional and deserve to be laughed at. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5310	Posted - 2013.12.30 19:47:00 - [59] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. the tanker motto isn't much different... tankers want a death machine that takes half a team to kill and costs less than one of those attackers fits.... I find it so funny when tankers expect exactly what they knock AVers for requesting.... I don't think you understand that there are two very different dynamics that need to be accounted for. The first is the viability of any given tank fit versus infantry, and the second is the viability of that same fit versus other tanks. A tank can be good at one, but only by trading away effectiveness at the other. Tankers are very much forced to decide when they call out their tank what they want to be. They can either be very good at killing infantry, or very good at killing vehicles, but not both. In any situation where you have a tank that you can't seem to take out with AV, that tank would get rolled very quickly by a rail tank. Stop trying to distill everything down to tankers want to be god mode. It isn't accurate, it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a btch. Start contributing something instead of being a crybaby. stop trying to lump all of us who want balance into the "QQ tanks are hard" category , it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a btch. what AVers want is the ability, with skill to take out a tank solo, because an AVer needs to make the same choice a tank does, do I get in my AV suit and kill vehicles leaving me vulnerable to both infantry and vehicles or do I go infantry giving me no chance against the tanks. as infantry I should be able to choose to run av nades and either proxies or RE'S AND TAKE OUT A TANK SOLO, WITH SKILL....not QQ...fact. Its hard not to, I know Chance does, and I do as well, run or have run infantry as a primary roles before..... apart from the select few who seem to have a clue most infantry players are too interested or busy looking for the next kill than trying to win the match. I say that because you see Min Logi not hacking the points when we are down by 2 objectives, you see players running off when its clear that the line needs to be held, or abandoning you when a big enemy push comes along..... its hard to have a good opinion of dedicated infantry soldiers when you see how garbage they are in Amarr FW, Cal FW, even the blue dots in Min FW are pretty bad, but are carried by the good players. I haven't had too much trouble using AV post 1.7 I always tack myself on to allied tank efforts or AV efforts, I never try to AV alone, I never try to hit shield tanks with modules on with swarms, I never try to hit armour tanks with modules on by charging at them with AV grenades......this is all I see from AVers....except a canny few who hit me post module activation while I am weak. Frankly speaking Infantry is looking for a crutch weapon that means they have to spend less that 2 mins hunting a tank because they simply want to get back to ground pounding and killing in their own little world. How do I know, because its exactly how I feel when I am on foot. Pre 1.7 tanks were garbage unless you were highly SP invested and even then you had to be very skilled to avoid auto locking 400m 2500 damage volleys of swarms which could down you every six seconds while remaining invisible and invulnerable at 400m from a mountain top......those were the scrubs of the game....who defended that weapon with their words. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1818	Posted - 2013.12.30 21:55:00 - [60] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: stop trying to lump all of us who want balance into the "QQ tanks are hard" category , it limits the options for real discussion, and it makes you like like a b*tch. what AVers want is the ability, with skill to take out a tank solo, because an AVer needs to make the same choice a tank does, do I get in my AV suit and kill vehicles leaving me vulnerable to both infantry and vehicles or do I go infantry giving me no chance against the tanks. as infantry I should be able to choose to run av nades and either proxies or RE'S AND TAKE OUT A TANK SOLO, WITH SKILL....not QQ...fact. With a FG and nades, every tank goes down. You want to run a rifle and an av fit at the same time. So you want the best of both worlds. Which makes you a scrub. Choose either AV or anti infantry, you don't get both anymore, and thank CCP for finally coming to their sense about it. If you think you should be able to have a rifle and a potent AV fit on the same suit, you are delusional and deserve to be laughed at. why not, that's what tanks get... a potent av fit and a infantry murder machine....so who you calling a scrub, scrub? this game makes me sad....

Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 637	Posted - 2013.12.30 21:58:00 - [61] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ Because having situational awareness and not driving straight into infantry was so hard. Also: Active Scanners Because shooting swarms out to 400m while remaining impossible to hit and invisible was so hard. The swarm is a caldari weapon. its supposed to have that kind of range you idiot. Learn the lore.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1841	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:24:00 - [62] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: True Adamance wrote: I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points.... Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match. Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match. I get out and hack. In fact, I hack far more points than most infantry. In a close match, I often have 4-6 hacks. I get out, hack, place uplinks, etcetera. Once you clear out the enemy, the goal is to prevent them from getting through the gates. If 1.8 brings an infantry respec I'm speccing right into Minmatar Logistics for the hacking speed bonus and using it with Code Breakers. One match against Molon we were being completely dominated because no one was hacking. I drove around the back, placed uplinks, hacked a point, flipped the points C -> D -> C as they defended their frontline until it took. We held it and, although we lost, we were damn close to winning for most of the match. 20/3, 3000 WP. That means I got 2000 WP from hacks, spawns and installation/tank destruction, of which there were few. If I have tank superiority, I will almost assuredly win. It's a very rare match where our team is the only one with tanks/many more tanks and we lose. I won 12 matches in a row stomping with Nyain San in Skirmish and Ambush. Tank spam is extremely difficult to beat once it reached high levels; moreso than any other role combination. Tanks are a role, just like any other. Can I deploy 6 Scouts that kill tanks, infantry at any range, regenerate in seconds and are immune to 95% of infantry weaponry? No, that'd be unfair, because whoever had more Scouts would win. It's not even about tactics; it's about choosing to simply squad with tankers instead of infantry. "Skirmish, Tankers Only" will fill with pilots and then you'll win 80% of matches with little communication until you meet another tank squad, even in militia tanks. Can you lose with tank superiority? Yes, you can. Usually it's simply because the enemy is vastly superior or the map is one of the few which favors infantry. I cannot remember the last time I've squadded with several good tankers (not Sicas) and lost a match and that's what I've been doing for most of the week while grinding ISK. Do you even understand what you wrote? Your hole post is about how OP the tanks are and that they are the dominate force in dust and if some one is stupid inuff to squad with infantry it's thr fault they are geting stomped? I would buy every singe statement in your post if we keep the game mechanics as they are and we al get a full respect so will al can run min hack logi tanks. Your hole post is in my mind BS, you have no respect for ppl that have grinded there char into somthing for a year or more and that was taken way from them over a night. Should they be forced to grind a home year again so they can be competitive again? As for me if there is a respec I will take my 30 Miljon sp and put it al into tanks Currently I have 0 sp and I am just as a efective in 1,7 as a 3-4 Miljon sp player due to the changes in they made in 1,7 But hey you are intitled to your opinion and I respect that 100% however I find you TOTALY in the dark about this Regards My post was about how tanks are OP and it's RIDICULOUS that a squad's chances of success in pubs skyrockets if they are all tankers. I am not blaming infantry; it's the opposite. I'm not sure where you got your post from; I think AV, swarms in particular, need a buff. Please point out where I blamed infantry for squadding with other infantry; I only pointed out that squadding with tankers led to hilariously easy matches most of the time. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 229	Posted - 2013.12.30 22:38:00 - [63] - Quote Just thought of something that was taught to me in collage. People dont know the difference between fair and equal. Fair is the person that is using armor needs to be taken down using group tactics regardless of if they only have one seat in the vehicle. 1x > 1y Equal is the person using armor gets 3 shot by a person solo while in their tank... 1 = 1 Analysis: 1.6 was equal, 1.7 is fair. Armor support is armor and infantry is infantry. I lost a grand total of two tanks today both to another rail tank that happened to be running dual hardeners. I personally dont run dual hardeners but it seems that antitank platforms do. Honestly, its a viable tactic but I feel that stacking penalties should be fairly heavy for something that starts at 60% reduction to damage to said hp type. If this actually helps anyone with anything I'll be amazed but Ive always said that a tank shouldnt be able to be soloed by any type of infantry short of sabotage (IE. re users.) The majority of people want equal, not fair. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2844	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:09:00 - [64] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ Because having situational awareness and not driving straight into infantry was so hard. Also: Active Scanners Because shooting swarms out to 400m while remaining impossible to hit and invisible was so hard. Because shooting rounds out of a Turret and rotating the joystick was so hard ...
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5313	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:12:00 - [65] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Because chucking three Lai Dais was so difficult -¼_-¼ Because having situational awareness and not driving straight into infantry was so hard. Also: Active Scanners Because shooting swarms out to 400m while remaining impossible to hit and invisible was so hard. Because shooting rounds out of a Turret and rotating the joystick was so hard You summed up every FPS, every role within those FPS, and told everyone who plays them that they do not require skill....... I mean all I am as infantry is a mobile turret......except the one thing I can say about infantry as stupid as they can be....they have at least more skill that swarm launchers who don't even have to aim. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2844	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:13:00 - [66] - Quote ladwar wrote: i ran a profit every time i run my av fit and i usually kill atleast 1 vehicle when i do and 1.7 hasn't changed anything. i fail to see how your av suit doesn't run a profit. 200k. With the guarantee to die at least once. Success does not mean profit. Unless you hid in the redline. Or fought against bad tankers. ...
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2846	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:26:00 - [67] - Quote True Adamance wrote: You summed up every FPS, every role within those FPS, and told everyone who plays them that they do not require skill....... I mean all I am as infantry is a mobile turret......except the one thing I can say about infantry as stupid as they can be....they have at least more skill that swarm launchers who don't even have to aim. You would be correct. Except some roles require actual skill in the sense of planning, coordination, and proper positioning. Something that is not even close to a requirement when tanking is involved. If you have trouble aiming with a Forge Gun then you need some serious help. The Plasma Cannon and Mass Driver (depending on the situation) are the only weapons in this entire game that require aiming beyond pointing and shooting/clicking. People couldn't handle Swarm Launchers without it's locking capabilities. They'd moan and b!tch about it being able to kill them (even though FGs and PLCs can already do so) just like they did last time. Also, the way you talk about Swarm Launchers would imply that using Large Turrets requires skill. It would also imply that operating a tank requires skill beyond what a 4 year old child could accomplish. When in all actuality, it really doesn't. ...
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2846	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:27:00 - [68] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Just thought of something that was taught to me in collage. People dont know the difference between fair and equal. Fair is the person that is using armor needs to be taken down using group tactics regardless of if they only have one seat in the vehicle. 1x > 1y Equal is the person using armor gets 3 shot by a person solo while in their tank... 1 = 1 Analysis: 1.6 was equal, 1.7 is fair. Armor support is armor and infantry is infantry. I lost a grand total of two tanks today both to another rail tank that happened to be running dual hardeners. I personally dont run dual hardeners but it seems that antitank platforms do. Honestly, its a viable tactic but I feel that stacking penalties should be fairly heavy for something that starts at 60% reduction to damage to said hp type. If this actually helps anyone with anything I'll be amazed but Ive always said that a tank shouldnt be able to be soloed by any type of infantry short of sabotage (IE. re users.) The majority of people want equal, not fair. Equality>All ...
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1157	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:31:00 - [69] - Quote I think the best fix would be to raise the price of tanks. Other than that at least it's not as imbalanced as it was in chromosome. Tarn chose peace. Tallen chose war. Where is my Gallente sidearm? SoonGäó514
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1843	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:41:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ivy Zalinto wrote: Just thought of something that was taught to me in collage. People dont know the difference between fair and equal. Fair is the person that is using armor needs to be taken down using group tactics regardless of if they only have one seat in the vehicle. 1x > 1y Equal is the person using armor gets 3 shot by a person solo while in their tank... 1 = 1 Analysis: 1.6 was equal, 1.7 is fair. Armor support is armor and infantry is infantry. I lost a grand total of two tanks today both to another rail tank that happened to be running dual hardeners. I personally dont run dual hardeners but it seems that antitank platforms do. Honestly, its a viable tactic but I feel that stacking penalties should be fairly heavy for something that starts at 60% reduction to damage to said hp type. If this actually helps anyone with anything I'll be amazed but Ive always said that a tank shouldnt be able to be soloed by any type of infantry short of sabotage (IE. re users.) The majority of people want equal, not fair. Equality>All Equality = Balance. It should be fair. How is fair defined in a lobby shooter with teams of equal sizes? Equality. Fairness IS equality in this case. Tanks taking squads of AV to down is only fair using logic like "it's a tank, so it's fair that it takes a platoon to destroy!" It's fair because it's fair is not a valid argument. Ivy seems to think it is. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.

Eurydice Itzhak State Patriots Templis CALSF 270	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:42:00 - [71] - Quote As a missile tanker since Chrome, I like that i finally have a role. Blaster tanks will ruin your day. My job is to ruin the day of blaster tankers. I catch maybe 10 ish infantry a skirmish. I blow up 2 to 10 tanks. 14 is my record so far. Jacques Clayton goes 42/1 as heavy in caldari fw while I just run around blowing up tanks. You're misplacing your anger. You hate blaster turrets. Good. Blaster turrets hate missiles. Everyone hates rails. Mlt tanks need a nerf and a price increase.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1843	Posted - 2013.12.30 23:44:00 - [72] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: As a missile tanker since Chrome, I like that i finally have a role. Blaster tanks will ruin your day. My job is to ruin the day of blaster tankers. I catch maybe 10 ish infantry a skirmish. I blow up 2 to 10 tanks. 14 is my record so far. Jacques Clayton goes 42/1 as heavy in caldari fw while I just run around blowing up tanks. You're misplacing your anger. You hate blaster turrets. Good. Blaster turrets hate missiles. Everyone hates rails. Mlt tanks need a nerf and a price increase. Missile tanks are awesome. Good on you. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 58	Posted - 2013.12.31 00:38:00 - [73] - Quote Walmart Door Greeter wrote: I'm at the point now when I see more than 4 red tanks around an objective I leave battle immediately. Just SO tired of it. Some say "oh just spawn a tank to fight them"... dude I play world of tanks and I'm ranked globally 400th, its a much better tank game with every part of angled armor, deflection and even internal components accurately modelled , if I want to tank I play WOT. This has become 'World of 514 Tanks' and it's absurd. This Also, I think that the way missile tanks work really speak to the problem. I don't have a problem with tanks if they don't sit around blasting infantry in impunity the whole match.... and missile turrets can't do that. At one point I stood exactly still and shot a missile tank twice with my plasma cannon and the missiles flew on either side of me. It was pretty cool really. Missile tanks are the worst infantry killing tanks in the game and they are completely fine and balanced right now. They can kill infantry in a pinch but there aren't groups of them camping infantry spawn points because even with the crappy AV there is some chance to kill them because they can't hit you well. The other tanks are OP vs infantry and it is ruining the game that one person can get into a cheap tank and go 20/0... The economy and balance is all wrong there. Why tankers can't see that is beyond me.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2013.12.31 05:40:00 - [74] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: True Adamance wrote: But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either. I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble. You are awesome, we get it. May I point out that, if you mean by 'anyone' 'everyone', what you are saying makes no sense? If everyone went 20/2 in most games, math as we know it is a lie. I will repeat what I said: it takes little to no skill to go double digits KDR in a cheap tank. Average infantry man has 1.0 KDR - it's easy to verify this by looking at the middle of any end-board at the end of a match. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2013.12.31 05:57:00 - [75] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: @ op - The tank vs tank meta is pretty balanced but swarms especially are very underpowered. Forges work a lot better but still can struggle a little bit at times. I suggest we reduce tank speed a little bit in the interest of fairness, as well as allow only a single hardener. To be honest I hate hardeners even when I am on my tank alt. Its way too boring. "Oh look that guy has his hardener on, ok I will just sit back 30 or what ever seconds and wait for it to turn off, then I'll go shoot him." I dunno I just dislike that whole idea. Also damage mods on tanks are a little random too, the noob level basic ones do the same as the complex ones apart from the recharge time. That doesn't sit too well with me. Tank vs tank belongs in a different thread. But I think all reasonable ppl agree that the way tanks are is an insult to the community. It is especially annoying that CCP heralded this as a balance patch for V vs AV and yet very typically and predictably have botched it as they have done with every other balancing effort. When they said that vehicle play will now revolve around windows of opportunity I did not realize that they meant that they have opened the window to the world of endless opportunity to the tankers. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 755	Posted - 2013.12.31 07:39:00 - [76] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Mitch Laurence wrote: I can stand on my nanohive and spam AV grenades at a stationary tank until my hive gets depleted and the tank will still have full armor and a bit of shields left. (I just did it yesterday) AV nades are not a viable option against tanks, anyone who says otherwise either hasn't used them post 1.7 or is lying. Anyone who thinks that a homing grenade should be a primary AV weapon is a scrub. Using them as a supplement to your primary AV weapon is still a functional way to use them. And it works. Thinking that you deserved a anti infantry primary weapon AND a vehicle killer in the same suit with nuclear baseballs is not balance in any way, unless you want everything in a medium frame suit, which is the infantry motto I suppose. Funny how you can arpe face with anti-infantry nades (500+ 7m splash damage anyone?) but when it come to tanks - it's a holy cow: they can only be burned if the tanker has gone afk and his blue dots have a drunk night. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 74	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:00:00 - [77] - Quote Its not really that i cant't take out a tank god knows i have blow up 100s of those noob tankers since the patch with my car bombs and road side IEDs. What the problem is in pub games is the price of tanks makeing a nonstop spam of tanks that if i ignore will **** my team. I say if i blow your tank up it should take a longer time for you to be able to spawn in another and you should have to think about loseing a lot of isk every time i kill your tank. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 46	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:19:00 - [78] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. AV does stop you though. It just doesn't kill you. There is a difference you need to learn to respect. AV = Anti vehicle yet doesn't kill vehicles .. Imagine if the Assault Rifle (Designed to Kill Infantry) didn't kill infantry and just scared them off .. LOL Why would anyone respect you when you show this level of stupidity ?
Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 46	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:29:00 - [79] - Quote Ivy Zalinto wrote: Just thought of something that was taught to me in collage. People dont know the difference between fair and equal. Fair is the person that is using armor needs to be taken down using group tactics regardless of if they only have one seat in the vehicle. 1x > 1y Equal is the person using armor gets 3 shot by a person solo while in their tank... 1 = 1 Analysis: 1.6 was equal, 1.7 is fair. Armor support is armor and infantry is infantry. I lost a grand total of two tanks today both to another rail tank that happened to be running dual hardeners. I personally dont run dual hardeners but it seems that antitank platforms do. Honestly, its a viable tactic but I feel that stacking penalties should be fairly heavy for something that starts at 60% reduction to damage to said hp type. If this actually helps anyone with anything I'll be amazed but Ive always said that a tank shouldnt be able to be soloed by any type of infantry short of sabotage (IE. re users.) The majority of people want equal, not fair. Neither of the points you made is either fair or equal ... you based each point from the viewpoint of a tanker only and nothing that you said is fair or equal in the eyes of an infantryman In response to the underlined statement you made .. Tankers shouldn't be able to solo ANY infantryman short of running them over then
Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 46	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:33:00 - [80] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Then why are player counts LOWER?? Tanks are fine?? Waits for April just to see what the fanboys are going to post....LOL!! Just waiting for the fanboy meltdown threads as player counts drop. lol Trying to blame tanks for lower player counts Pull your head out of your arse Me and my bro stopped playing this game 3 weeks ago solely because of Tank Spam .. and we aren't the only ones .. I ditched 12 months of playing this game because of OP Tanks and I wont be back unless something is done to fix them

Shokhann Echo Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 137	Posted - 2013.12.31 09:39:00 - [81] - Quote Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Then why are player counts LOWER?? Tanks are fine?? Waits for April just to see what the fanboys are going to post....LOL!! Just waiting for the fanboy meltdown threads as player counts drop. lol Trying to blame tanks for lower player counts Pull your head out of your arse Me and my bro stopped playing this game 3 weeks ago solely because of Tank Spam .. and we aren't the only ones .. I ditched 12 months of playing this game because of OP Tanks and I wont be back unless something is done to break them ad make this call of duty 514 again your welcome Youtube Alt # 1 Back on main 3-31-2014
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1620	Posted - 2013.12.31 10:58:00 - [82] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Complaining that people have a counter to PRO gear? Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2476	Posted - 2013.12.31 11:24:00 - [83] - Quote I have been in too many matches where players don't react to tanks. Their first idea is to just avoid them. hey as long it isn't tracking them, its fine. But as soon as two swarm guys come out, guess what happens? Tank spam slows. If two squads with swarms unloaded, imagine the possibility But the problem is the player. The players don't react and versatility is nonexistent. You have one thread talking about Tanks are not balanced. Another thread with a dropship pilot complaining about rail tanks, yet when presented with logical options to see it in a different light, he doesn't even respond. I'm willing to bet that most of the problem lays on the laps of the players. If players actually went into alert phase and viciously attacked with swarms, tanks would relent. If dedicated forge gunners whipped out their version of Ryu's fireball, they would relent. Tanks are used to coming into the battlefield and people running for the hills. I've seen tanks run with hardeners on when I launched a volley. Why? Cause they expected no resistance from the players. But the problem is people don't work together. They run and hide. Get pissed. Immediately get on their laptops and cry tank spam. This is same problem as the protostomp. People wanted CCP to change the protostomp. Instead of the community pulling together to combat the ever changing dynamics of the battlefield, they want things changed in a tailor made fashion. You know why? Cause most go at it alone figuring since they kill with ease, nothing should stand in their way. It's the common human problem with society and the game reflects this in spades. There are very few talks of people working together to take down tanks. But it gets lost in the sea of tears. Hey don't listen to him, he's not whining like us. Lets whine together and bring down those walls that block us from victory. Instead of relying on CCP to lick your wounds and put band aids on them, how come the community can't work together to take down these tankers?? It is possible. You don't let a bully keep hitting you. You hit him back and you hit him hard Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 672	Posted - 2013.12.31 13:41:00 - [84] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Complaining that people have a counter to PRO gear? LOL facepalm to each and every tanker that think that AV vs Tank balance is Fine. It would've been balanced if ccp didn't touch AVs and made the tanks better. But to some people hiding behind redline every 2 seconds is Great tanking lol
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1329	Posted - 2013.12.31 13:45:00 - [85] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: As A pretty decent tanker, i get chased off by 2-3 guys switching to swarm launchers and or AV nades quite often, do i come back after i have reped and my hardener has cooled down, you bet cha, but thats is almost exactly what CCP said they intended. Have us scammper off and have to come back. The main issue atm with thanks is fits with multiplue hardeners (which i never run) letting their amount of run away or cool down time be almost none existant. Now the weird part is when 8-12 gys on the enemy team switch to swarm launchers and for some reason our blueberrys still cant hold an objective, even tho a guy bobbing around shootign a tank with a swarm launcher is almost the easyest thing to kill for a footslogger And by scamper, they mean Nascar Race of the map... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Zerus Ni'Kator Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 57	Posted - 2013.12.31 15:58:00 - [86] - Quote Shokhann Echo wrote: Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tanks are fine Then why are player counts LOWER?? Tanks are fine?? Waits for April just to see what the fanboys are going to post....LOL!! Just waiting for the fanboy meltdown threads as player counts drop. lol Trying to blame tanks for lower player counts Pull your head out of your arse Me and my bro stopped playing this game 3 weeks ago solely because of Tank Spam .. and we aren't the only ones .. I ditched 12 months of playing this game because of OP Tanks and I wont be back unless something is done to break them ad make this call of duty 514 again your welcome That might actually have some weight behind it if I hadn't quit COD due to the TTK being so low and come to play DUST Now that TTK is so low in DUST I don't particularly want to play this game either You seem to want this game to be World Of Tanks 514 and right now that is basically what this game is
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 235	Posted - 2013.12.31 16:07:00 - [87] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I seriously don't get it. You cat get a 70k militia tank and have a 20/2 game pretty consistently. AV is can't stop you because you are fast enough and can run away once AV starts doing damage. Or you would not even have to because you have 3 other tanks rolling with you that will wipe the floor with anything and everything. Also that AV guy who spawned in a 50k suit is gonna lose it in the next 40 seconds to your blue dots regardles. You will roll your tank back in and rinse and repeat. This is the scenario that happens 100% of the time. When you say that tanks are balanced do you mean they are balanced against themselves (i.e. other tanks)? Or you are just trolling? Or you have complete disconnect with reality? Or you never played this game? Or you are in Niyan San and just used to pubstomping in ambush that you don't notice the difference anymore? Which one is it? Oh wait.... Maybe you are referring to that one game out of 50 where there was an AV squad and they destroyed 2 of your tanks while losing the game because their team was stretched too thin and could not support bleeding players to AV role - it takes 3 AV ppl to maybe and if they are lucky take out one tank. Dat rage. Just make the militia tank without anything (No turret no free module). The final Militia tank ready to use will finally cost more than 130.000 ISK. Lightly nerf his PG/CPU to make the PG/CPU booster almost a "must have" for the militia tank. Here your militia tank balanced. The others tanks seems legit their price is pretty high once they're fitted. Just make the Gunlogi and Madrugar 120K Isk. 90.000 is not really high. Seems better ? Tank is not suppsoed to be trash that can be instant killed by the first player that self called "AV" while he just have some AV grenades..... a Real AV player have at least the primary weapon AV AND the Av grenades. If you try destroying a tank just with your grenade then stop complaining and go buy yourself a brain. You must at least have one AV weapon. Plasma Cannon / Swarm Launchers even Breach Mass driver is viable if you have flux. Forge Gun if you're heavy etcetc...
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 232	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:15:00 - [88] - Quote Considering tanks tank how much sp to make effective even with the revamp? Like 4-5 times that of any weapon that is even classified as av. No I do not think that its fair simply because its fair. Its fair because it is a tank vs infantry. Even if they have supposed anti vehicle weapons this does not mean they should blow the tanks to hell. It should in fact take a full squad of av to keep vehicles locked down in a game. Hell, an ideal tactical situation would be a squad of support with av weapons, a squad of infantry and a light squad of armor transport for those squads (lav's). But since Ive been called out by people for posting something that was relevant I think I will start hunting players for sport. See you on the field boys. Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Scrambler Pistol dedication


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