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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1830
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Posted - 2013.12.30 10:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:True Adamance wrote:But I have always had good games in tanks. 20/2 isn't hard on foot either.
I was better back in 1.6 than I am now, except that I am taking down more HAV per game these days which I like. The problem is that ANYONE can go 20/2 in a tank. I doubt CCP intended some ppl to play DUST in godmode. Anyone can got 20/2 on foot does that make my rail rifle, scanner, Amarr Assault, Assault Scrambler Pistol, Enhanced Armour modules, etc OP? I am living proof that any scrub on foot can do better than two tanks.....infact I proved that tonight against 8213 and the Big Bad Wolves who are pretty good players IMO ......and I am the worst infantryman this game has ever seen. Now when I get into a tank.....I am always upwards of 15 kills for 0 deaths, I am a better tanker than most people, not the best mind you, but pretty good, it when the enemy steps up and brings out HAV and AV teams that I start to run into trouble.
I was grinding ISK on my 1.6m SP alt today. 100k SP into tanks. I used a Soma in an otherwise pretty equal Skirmish. I went 39/3 with 3000 WP, popped several enemy tanks and they had a full squad of AV that couldn't do jack all. I just went in circles, popping everything and everyone.
That was a pretty good game for me, I'll admit. Still, I feel they are very much OP at the moment. When was the last time I went 39/3 with 3000 WP in a militia suit? Not any time within recent memory. There's a real risk when I engage someone that I will get killed. In my tank with it's shiny instant death near unlimited range Blaster, there is no risk in a good tank, unless another STD tank tries to pop me. With militia tanks, I need to worry about Forge Guns and several Swarm Launchers at once hitting me at once. Other than that, as long as I do a few circles I'm golden. Don't even get me started on Ambush where I consistently get 20+ kills with no deaths in 50 clone matches unless the enemy stomps my tank with another tank.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1830
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Posted - 2013.12.30 11:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points....
Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match.
Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match.
I get out and hack. In fact, I hack far more points than most infantry. In a close match, I often have 4-6 hacks. I get out, hack, place uplinks, etcetera. Once you clear out the enemy, the goal is to prevent them from getting through the gates. If 1.8 brings an infantry respec I'm speccing right into Minmatar Logistics for the hacking speed bonus and using it with Code Breakers.
One match against Molon we were being completely dominated because no one was hacking. I drove around the back, placed uplinks, hacked a point, flipped the points C -> D -> C as they defended their frontline until it took. We held it and, although we lost, we were damn close to winning for most of the match. 20/3, 3000 WP. That means I got 2000 WP from hacks, spawns and installation/tank destruction, of which there were few.
If I have tank superiority, I will almost assuredly win. It's a very rare match where our team is the only one with tanks/many more tanks and we lose. I won 12 matches in a row stomping with Nyain San in Skirmish and Ambush. Tank spam is extremely difficult to beat once it reached high levels; moreso than any other role combination. Tanks are a role, just like any other. Can I deploy 6 Scouts that kill tanks, infantry at any range, regenerate in seconds and are immune to 95% of infantry weaponry? No, that'd be unfair, because whoever had more Scouts would win. It's not even about tactics; it's about choosing to simply squad with tankers instead of infantry. "Skirmish, Tankers Only" will fill with pilots and then you'll win 80% of matches with little communication until you meet another tank squad, even in militia tanks.
Can you lose with tank superiority? Yes, you can. Usually it's simply because the enemy is vastly superior or the map is one of the few which favors infantry. I cannot remember the last time I've squadded with several good tankers (not Sicas) and lost a match and that's what I've been doing for most of the week while grinding ISK.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1841
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Posted - 2013.12.30 22:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Borne Velvalor wrote:True Adamance wrote:
I get you on some level but I mean I can also walk into pub matches on foot which is not my usual style and score high kill games and not loose suits, Tanks are just big, and have the big guns, and its easy to blame them for a loss, you forget it doesn't matter how many tanks the enemy has in skirmish or dom if they don't have the infantry they wont capture the points....
Sometimes it just a matter of manning up and holding down the point to win the match.
Frankly speaking after my stints in Amarr FW I would rather win games and go ISK negative than loose them and remain ISK positive no matter how well I do in match.
I get out and hack. In fact, I hack far more points than most infantry. In a close match, I often have 4-6 hacks. I get out, hack, place uplinks, etcetera. Once you clear out the enemy, the goal is to prevent them from getting through the gates. If 1.8 brings an infantry respec I'm speccing right into Minmatar Logistics for the hacking speed bonus and using it with Code Breakers. One match against Molon we were being completely dominated because no one was hacking. I drove around the back, placed uplinks, hacked a point, flipped the points C -> D -> C as they defended their frontline until it took. We held it and, although we lost, we were damn close to winning for most of the match. 20/3, 3000 WP. That means I got 2000 WP from hacks, spawns and installation/tank destruction, of which there were few. If I have tank superiority, I will almost assuredly win. It's a very rare match where our team is the only one with tanks/many more tanks and we lose. I won 12 matches in a row stomping with Nyain San in Skirmish and Ambush. Tank spam is extremely difficult to beat once it reached high levels; moreso than any other role combination. Tanks are a role, just like any other. Can I deploy 6 Scouts that kill tanks, infantry at any range, regenerate in seconds and are immune to 95% of infantry weaponry? No, that'd be unfair, because whoever had more Scouts would win. It's not even about tactics; it's about choosing to simply squad with tankers instead of infantry. "Skirmish, Tankers Only" will fill with pilots and then you'll win 80% of matches with little communication until you meet another tank squad, even in militia tanks. Can you lose with tank superiority? Yes, you can. Usually it's simply because the enemy is vastly superior or the map is one of the few which favors infantry. I cannot remember the last time I've squadded with several good tankers (not Sicas) and lost a match and that's what I've been doing for most of the week while grinding ISK. Do you even understand what you wrote? Your hole post is about how OP the tanks are and that they are the dominate force in dust and if some one is stupid inuff to squad with infantry it's thr fault they are geting stomped? I would buy every singe statement in your post if we keep the game mechanics as they are and we al get a full respect so will al can run min hack logi tanks. Your hole post is in my mind BS, you have no respect for ppl that have grinded there char into somthing for a year or more and that was taken way from them over a night. Should they be forced to grind a home year again so they can be competitive again? As for me if there is a respec I will take my 30 Miljon sp and put it al into tanks Currently I have 0 sp and I am just as a efective in 1,7 as a 3-4 Miljon sp player due to the changes in they made in 1,7 But hey you are intitled to your opinion and I respect that 100% however I find you TOTALY in the dark about this Regards
My post was about how tanks are OP and it's RIDICULOUS that a squad's chances of success in pubs skyrockets if they are all tankers. I am not blaming infantry; it's the opposite. I'm not sure where you got your post from; I think AV, swarms in particular, need a buff.
Please point out where I blamed infantry for squadding with other infantry; I only pointed out that squadding with tankers led to hilariously easy matches most of the time.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1843
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote:Just thought of something that was taught to me in collage. People dont know the difference between fair and equal.
Fair is the person that is using armor needs to be taken down using group tactics regardless of if they only have one seat in the vehicle. 1x > 1y
Equal is the person using armor gets 3 shot by a person solo while in their tank... 1 = 1
Analysis: 1.6 was equal, 1.7 is fair. Armor support is armor and infantry is infantry. I lost a grand total of two tanks today both to another rail tank that happened to be running dual hardeners. I personally dont run dual hardeners but it seems that antitank platforms do. Honestly, its a viable tactic but I feel that stacking penalties should be fairly heavy for something that starts at 60% reduction to damage to said hp type.
If this actually helps anyone with anything I'll be amazed but Ive always said that a tank shouldnt be able to be soloed by any type of infantry short of sabotage (IE. re users.)
The majority of people want equal, not fair. Equality>All Equality = Balance.
It should be fair. How is fair defined in a lobby shooter with teams of equal sizes? Equality. Fairness IS equality in this case. Tanks taking squads of AV to down is only fair using logic like "it's a tank, so it's fair that it takes a platoon to destroy!"
It's fair because it's fair is not a valid argument. Ivy seems to think it is.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1843
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 23:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eurydice Itzhak wrote:As a missile tanker since Chrome, I like that i finally have a role. Blaster tanks will ruin your day. My job is to ruin the day of blaster tankers.
I catch maybe 10 ish infantry a skirmish. I blow up 2 to 10 tanks. 14 is my record so far.
Jacques Clayton goes 42/1 as heavy in caldari fw while I just run around blowing up tanks.
You're misplacing your anger. You hate blaster turrets. Good. Blaster turrets hate missiles. Everyone hates rails.
Mlt tanks need a nerf and a price increase.
Missile tanks are awesome. Good on you.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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