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A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4894	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:05:00 - [1] - Quote A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
KING CHECKMATE Scions of Athra 3448	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:06:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. AV-TANK BALANCE = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1612446#post1612446
jin foxdale Jedi Slime. 133	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:09:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. That'd be fun for a day or two, taking down three HAVs with one AR clip, punching dropships from rooftops etc. Maybe an event? If you see me in the redline, driving an LAV in circles, fear not! Its my two year old son enjoying New Eden.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4894	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:11:00 - [4] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 1574	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:14:00 - [5] - Quote Compared to other tanks im sure it is... Amarr! Try EVE Online Selling Templar BPO
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4897	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:25:00 - [6] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As for dropsuits it has never been on the same lvl, my 100k dropsuit could destroyer a 400k tank before 1.7 with ease. Yeah well, now that 100k dropsuit has to die several times to get that same tank that now costs 100k. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1482	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:26:00 - [7] - Quote I do love allot of these price related gripes and groans about vehicles especially from infantry who told tankers for months and months that isk price should not factor into balance Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4898	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:29:00 - [8] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: I do love allot of these price related gripes and groans about vehicles especially from infantry who told tankers for months and months that isk price should not factor into balance Well, considering that a tank forces players to switch to AV, which means less fighters on the field, it was justified. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:32:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:35:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: pegasis prime wrote: I do love allot of these price related gripes and groans about vehicles especially from infantry who told tankers for months and months that isk price should not factor into balance Well, considering that a tank forces players to switch to AV, which means less fighters on the field, it was justified. And you know these time (TTK so low...) An free suit or 2000ISK suit is as effective than an 80000ISK suit. Both of these suits is instant killed and die as easy. Now than Tanking does'not exist anymore. So you can't really compare Tanks and Dropsuits right now than the game is TOTALLY unbalanced. (Not just one or two eapons but the Core of the game is now ****** up with this TTK). Sorry for my bad english (Really sorry ^^')

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4898	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:37:00 - [11] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) "Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price." Why. Give me a good reason in terms of game balance. "A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective." Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
bear90211 Nyain San Renegade Alliance 140	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:39:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. You do know, their cutting the costs of suits and weapons to kill the QQ about vary small payouts. this will be fixed soon. Heavies are still squishy to my AR, just 5 rounds into them extra ;D hmm, I want taco's...
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5190	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:41:00 - [13] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Lol okay we get tanks need an ISK increase, but why even bother having vehicles and roles in this game is they should all be as effective as one another? To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
TunRa RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 268	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:41:00 - [14] - Quote This is why I started AT-tanking, to shut up all the infantry. Thanks CCP Foxfour
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4899	Posted - 2013.12.22 18:43:00 - [15] - Quote bear90211 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. You do know, their cutting the costs of suits and weapons to kill the QQ about vary small payouts. this will be fixed soon. As far as I know, this was a rumor started by players. I want to see source. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
IR Scifi Knights of Eternal Darkness 72	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:01:00 - [16] - Quote jin foxdale wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. That'd be fun for a day or two, taking down three HAVs with one AR clip, punching dropships from rooftops etc. Maybe an event? As stupid as the other idea sounds, I'd fully support this.
RED FARM GOOD OL' B0YS 42	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:15:00 - [17] - Quote I guess I am the only one that thinks tanks are sort of not so bad. The problem is not HAVs. It is blueberries on foot trying to attack them and dying. Scouts trying to cross the road right in front of them etc. BBs poking out from cover ..."I wonder if the tank is still there?" If there are 4 enemies tanks on the field and maybe a LAV.... That is 4-8 less enemies foot soldiers able to attack or hold an objective(s). I know people will disagree. One person can hold an objective against 2 tanks. It boils down to DEFEAT usually by getting cloned and not losing your MCC. Stay in cover and do not engage. Two days ago, I held an objective outside of a city vs. two tank with 3 operators for like 5 minutes. I just danced around a box. Anytime one started to leave I popped a couple rounds into him to make him stay. If any tanker is 10 or more kills and 0 deaths..... squad leads need to target that tank and take him out them watch for a vehicle delivery and take him out again OR target him to completely avoid. So, in this regard I feel a 100k tank is (or should be) about as effective as a 100k suit. In reality the tank may or maybe not be force multiplier depending on the blueberries. Public Chat: GOOD OL' B0YS Please note the word B0YS has a zero in it.
DeadlyAztec11 2850	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:24:00 - [18] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. Lost all credibility with that. »We still have our honor!
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1382	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:30:00 - [19] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. ISK arguments are not right or wrong, but they are totally irrelevant wrt game balance for all the obvious and oft-quoted reasons. To belabour the painfully obvious, CCP will still have to think carefully about mineral inputs and EVE market value for DUST vehicles. I support SP rollover.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1409	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:58:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. So the question is.. who is lacking efficiency :)

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4904	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:59:00 - [21] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. So the question is.. who is lacking efficiency :) Or maybe who is too efficinet :) Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 3510	Posted - 2013.12.22 20:05:00 - [22] - Quote RED FARM wrote: I guess I am the only one that thinks tanks are sort of not so bad. The problem is not HAVs. It is blueberries on foot trying to attack them and dying. Scouts trying to cross the road right in front of them etc. BBs poking out from cover ..."I wonder if the tank is still there?" If there are 4 enemies tanks on the field and maybe a LAV.... That is 4-8 less enemies foot soldiers able to attack or hold an objective(s). I know people will disagree. One person can hold an objective against 2 tanks. It boils down to DEFEAT usually by getting cloned and not losing your MCC. Stay in cover and do not engage. Two days ago, I held an objective outside of a city vs. two tank with 3 operators for like 5 minutes. I just danced around a box. Anytime one started to leave I popped a couple rounds into him to make him stay. If any tanker is 10 or more kills and 0 deaths..... squad leads need to target that tank and take him out them watch for a vehicle delivery and take him out again OR target him to completely avoid. So, in this regard I feel a 100k tank is (or should be) about as effective as a 100k suit. In reality the tank may or maybe not be force multiplier depending on the blueberries. Too bad I play ambush... No where to hide there and no objectives GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢ Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà Forum Warrior LV. 3 \| Warframe is awesome! \| PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5193	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:03:00 - [23] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: RED FARM wrote: I guess I am the only one that thinks tanks are sort of not so bad. The problem is not HAVs. It is blueberries on foot trying to attack them and dying. Scouts trying to cross the road right in front of them etc. BBs poking out from cover ..."I wonder if the tank is still there?" If there are 4 enemies tanks on the field and maybe a LAV.... That is 4-8 less enemies foot soldiers able to attack or hold an objective(s). I know people will disagree. One person can hold an objective against 2 tanks. It boils down to DEFEAT usually by getting cloned and not losing your MCC. Stay in cover and do not engage. Two days ago, I held an objective outside of a city vs. two tank with 3 operators for like 5 minutes. I just danced around a box. Anytime one started to leave I popped a couple rounds into him to make him stay. If any tanker is 10 or more kills and 0 deaths..... squad leads need to target that tank and take him out them watch for a vehicle delivery and take him out again OR target him to completely avoid. So, in this regard I feel a 100k tank is (or should be) about as effective as a 100k suit. In reality the tank may or maybe not be force multiplier depending on the blueberries. Too bad I play ambush... No where to hide there and no objectives Ambush is the worst game mode and no tank should be balanced for Ambush the garbage game mode that it is. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 536	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:21:00 - [24] - Quote my cheap mlt suit is more effective than my 88k isk tank in some matches ive been having....
Auris Lionesse SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 16	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:31:00 - [25] - Quote Tanks are fine in bf and they die in 3-4 hits and limited to 1 or 2 per team. No one complains.
Thumb Green Novashift 599	Posted - 2013.12.22 22:49:00 - [26] - Quote RED FARM wrote: If there are 4 enemies tanks on the field and maybe a LAV.... That is 4-8 less enemies foot soldiers able to attack or hold an objective(s). I know people will disagree. I do disagree because many objectives (particularly on the old maps) can be attacked & defended by tanks; just not captured, but they sure as hell can cover the infantryman that is capturing the objective. Never mind the president, let's overgrow the government.
Daddrobit PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 413	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:21:00 - [27] - Quote Hmmmm, I just went 45-5 in my 47,000 suit. Have you thought maybe it's operator error if you can't do well in expensive things?
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1035	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:31:00 - [28] - Quote I don't think anyone could disagree with the title.
Jason Pearson 3591	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:39:00 - [29] - Quote So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Kane Fyea Scions of Athra 2430	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:43:00 - [30] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. You do know that there was only like 2 or 3 people saying that isk isn't a balancing factor right?

Jason Pearson 3591	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:45:00 - [31] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. You do know that there was only like 2 or 3 people saying that isk isn't a balancing factor right? Nope, people said it was fine, thus everybody was against me. You're all awful people and I hope TQ goes down while I'm sleeping. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
DeadlyAztec11 2856	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:45:00 - [32] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. What crap ass tank are you running that dies to 3 Dai Lai's? Like seriously. »We still have our honor!
Jason Pearson 3591	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:47:00 - [33] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. What crap ass tank are you running that dies to 3 Dai Lai's? Like seriously. Before 1.7, nearly everything died to Lai Dais. Like, seriously girlfriend. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5200	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:56:00 - [34] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. What crap ass tank are you running that dies to 3 Dai Lai's? Like seriously. Before 1.7, nearly everything died to Lai Dais. Like, seriously girlfriend. Yup 3 was always enough to finish my tank from god only know what angle that I could even comprehend. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
DeadlyAztec11 2857	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:58:00 - [35] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. What crap ass tank are you running that dies to 3 Dai Lai's? Like seriously. Before 1.7, nearly everything died to Lai Dais. Like, seriously girlfriend. Like OMG, don't be such a drama queen. Vehicles had issues with cost ans rendering but CCP went way too far with all the AV nerfs, like totally. »We still have our honor!
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5202	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:00:00 - [36] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So it's okay for AV to cry about prices, but when my 1.7mil tank gets taken out by three Lai Dais, I need to htfu? You know what? HTFU you terribad players. What crap ass tank are you running that dies to 3 Dai Lai's? Like seriously. Before 1.7, nearly everything died to Lai Dais. Like, seriously girlfriend. Like OMG, don't be such a drama queen. Vehicles had issues with cost ans rendering but CCP went way too far with all the AV nerfs, like totally. I cant take a man seriously if he says "Like Totally" in a sentence....you just crossed a line. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Tectonic Fusion 772	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:03:00 - [37] - Quote All I know is I'd rather have a tank and six advanced gear people defending an objective than 10+ proto stompers. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Sky Kage Immortal Guides 598	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:06:00 - [38] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. i personally only use my 95k isk mlt rail tank against other tanks that are pissing me off and believe me when i say thats the only real AV left now. I die alot AND have fun... Who knew? a¦á_a¦á
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:14:00 - [39] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Tanks are fine in bf and they die in 3-4 hits and limited to 1 or 2 per team. No one complains. I'm a Battlefield Tank driver. In Battlefield Tanks is free. Well fitted tank in BF can take 9 rocket shots shots from face. Tanks in BF can EASILY avoid RPG shoots. They have 2 weapons primary AND secondary. The Turrets for passenger makes kill waym ore easier than in Dust. They can use flare to avoid launchers like the Swarm Launcher. They have the Speed boost. They are way more easy to manoeuver. And to finish my Battlefield tank can crush ennemies just by passing on them. Quote: Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. Then open your eyes. A good Tank fit is more than 500K. Modules is really expensive and Turrets is OH MY GAWD So expensive. And i'm not even an Tank driver..... just goes to market 25sec....
Kane Fyea Scions of Athra 2430	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:18:00 - [40] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Tanks are fine in bf and they die in 3-4 hits and limited to 1 or 2 per team. No one complains. I'm a Battlefield Tank driver. In Battlefield Tanks is free. Well fitted tank in BF can take 9 rocket shots shots from face. Tanks in BF can EASILY avoid RPG shoots. They have 2 weapons primary AND secondary. The Turrets for passenger makes kill waym ore easier than in Dust. They can use flare to avoid launchers like the Swarm Launcher. They have the Speed boost. They are way more easy to manoeuver. And to finish my Battlefield tank can crush ennemies just by passing on them. Quote: Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. Then open your eyes. A good Tank fit is more than 500K. Modules is really expensive and Turrets is OH MY GAWD So expensive. And i'm not even an Tank driver..... just goes to market 25sec.... Battlefield tanks also die very easily to c4. Put 3 on and detonate and you have a kill. Also I can snipe tanks very well with the RPG (I also destroy helicopters with my RPG).

Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1302	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:32:00 - [41] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) Hold on, 5 players? You are saying a tank should have the equivalent force strength of a 5 man wolf pack? Are you serious? So a team with 5 tanks has a force strength of 36 against 16? And you wonder why WTF has a bad reputation for pub stomping, you wonder everyone and their mother is rushing to deploy there tank first? Ill say it once, Ill say it a thousand times. One tank alone should be no more effective than 1 infantry unit. 1tank == 1infantry 5tank == 5infantry 1tank + 4 infantry > 5 infantry Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1302	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:39:00 - [42] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Not quite, I agree with the principle, disagree with the mentality. Units should be priced on their survivability, not power. But units should be balanced against each other based on Force Strength. 1 unit should never be undeniably better in a solo instance than another. So shotgunners should be no less useful than snipers, who should be no less useful than rifles, who should be no less useful than tanks. Instead there worth is improved dependent upon the situation, tanks should be no different even if they were cheaper than adv suits. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Jason Pearson 3595	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:48:00 - [43] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: So shotgunners should be no less useful than snipers I read this, and all I could picture was a scout with a shotgun on a mountain just firing and getting kills from hundreds of meters away -¼_-¼ King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:51:00 - [44] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Tanks are fine in bf and they die in 3-4 hits and limited to 1 or 2 per team. No one complains. I'm a Battlefield Tank driver. In Battlefield Tanks is free. Well fitted tank in BF can take 9 rocket shots shots from face. Tanks in BF can EASILY avoid RPG shoots. They have 2 weapons primary AND secondary. The Turrets for passenger makes kill waym ore easier than in Dust. They can use flare to avoid launchers like the Swarm Launcher. They have the Speed boost. They are way more easy to manoeuver. And to finish my Battlefield tank can crush ennemies just by passing on them. Quote: Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. Then open your eyes. A good Tank fit is more than 500K. Modules is really expensive and Turrets is OH MY GAWD So expensive. And i'm not even an Tank driver..... just goes to market 25sec.... Battlefield tanks also die very easily to c4. Put 3 on and detonate and you have a kill. Also I can snipe tanks very well with the RPG (I also destroy helicopters with my RPG). Also the only way you can tank 9+ rpgs in battlefield is if you have someone repping the tank or the person sucks aat using the RPG (To effectively tank in bf you better have a good gunner or else get ready to get blown up by c4 or rpgs). If you died in Battlefield 4 by C4 it means you're not really lucky I'm almost level 30 and i never died from C4 on my Tank. (But i'm always moving when i'm in my tank so.....) In battlefield 4 RPG rockets are as slow than the Plasma Cannon. You hear the shot you move it will miss. I said 9 rockets i didn't say RPG. I was speaking about NLAW or light guided rockets. (Which looks like the Swarm launcher.)
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1302	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:54:00 - [45] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: So shotgunners should be no less useful than snipers I read this, and all I could picture was a scout with a shotgun on a mountain just firing and getting kills from hundreds of meters away -¼_-¼ Now that would be hilarious, but that is not quite what I meant you understand. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5205	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:55:00 - [46] - Quote Swarm Launcher would be cool if the player had to guide their rockets to the target. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.23 00:58:00 - [47] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) Hold on, 5 players? You are saying a tank should have the equivalent force strength of a 5 man wolf pack? Are you serious? So a team with 5 tanks has a force strength of 36 against 16? And you wonder why WTF has a bad reputation for pub stomping, you wonder everyone and their mother is rushing to deploy there tank first? Ill say it once, Ill say it a thousand times. One tank alone should be no more effective than 1 infantry unit. 1tank == 1infantry 5tank == 5infantry 1tank + 4 infantry > 5 infantry Oh come on SERIOUSLY ? Why are you attacking WTF for what i'm saying ME ? As far as i remember i didn't protostomp. Please don't start speaking about WTF with no reason just..don't speak to me like i was an WTF. I mean that's a FREAKING TANK. That's EVIDENT than a tank is stronger than a single player....... With your logic a single player with Militia rifle should be able to kill an TITAN from EVE as easily than the TITAN to kill the little soldier ? Come one all of you tank driver try to explain to him. For me that's SO EVIDENT than a tank is supposed to be stronger than a dropsuits that i can't explain to him...
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1303	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:04:00 - [48] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) Hold on, 5 players? You are saying a tank should have the equivalent force strength of a 5 man wolf pack? Are you serious? So a team with 5 tanks has a force strength of 36 against 16? And you wonder why WTF has a bad reputation for pub stomping, you wonder everyone and their mother is rushing to deploy there tank first? Ill say it once, Ill say it a thousand times. One tank alone should be no more effective than 1 infantry unit. 1tank == 1infantry 5tank == 5infantry 1tank + 4 infantry > 5 infantry Oh come on SERIOUSLY ? Why are you attacking WTF for what i'm saying ME ? As far as i remember i didn't protostomp. Please don't start speaking about WTF with no reason just..don't speak to me like i was an WTF. I mean that's a FREAKING TANK. That's EVIDENT than a tank is stronger than a single player....... With your logic a single player with Militia rifle should be able to kill an TITAN from EVE as easily than the TITAN to kill the little soldier ? Come one all of you tank driver try to explain to him. For me that's SO EVIDENT than a tank is supposed to be stronger than a dropsuits that i can't explain to him... Fine I'll leave em out of it, Stonger as in more health or survivability, yes. In terms of worth on the battle field no. If you want an example, you way say shuttle or frigate shouldn't be worth as much as say a super carrier? THIS video suggests otherwise. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 258	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:05:00 - [49] - Quote Yes and no. "No" in that nothing in the game should be balanced on ISK alone. Balancing the battlefield is more important than balancing the cost. "Yes" in as much as effectiveness is measured overall, and not specifically by the ability to destroy it or its ability to kill. Its effectiveness needs to be limited to a specific realm. Right now, tanks are the most effective in all realms--they just need infantry to take care of the little stuff like hacking objectives. Their effectiveness needs to be limited by a redesign of the maps to limit their domain.
Guildo Crow ZionTCD Public Disorder. 173	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:12:00 - [50] - Quote how about a 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK tank? A tank and a dropsuit are not the same thing. You want to kill that tank... bring a tank. AV is supplementary. When it comes down to the basics, only a vehicle should "easily" take out another vehicle. Since tanks are balanced now, you can bring in a MLT tank and have a great chance at popping a STD tank. Game balancing shouldn't mean everything can kill everything equally. If that were the case, then make all suits and vehicles insta-kill each other at infinite range. USE the tanks! they are cheaper now, and easier to access for all players.

Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:12:00 - [51] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) Hold on, 5 players? You are saying a tank should have the equivalent force strength of a 5 man wolf pack? Are you serious? So a team with 5 tanks has a force strength of 36 against 16? And you wonder why WTF has a bad reputation for pub stomping, you wonder everyone and their mother is rushing to deploy there tank first? Ill say it once, Ill say it a thousand times. One tank alone should be no more effective than 1 infantry unit. 1tank == 1infantry 5tank == 5infantry 1tank + 4 infantry > 5 infantry Oh come on SERIOUSLY ? Why are you attacking WTF for what i'm saying ME ? As far as i remember i didn't protostomp. Please don't start speaking about WTF with no reason just..don't speak to me like i was an WTF. I mean that's a FREAKING TANK. That's EVIDENT than a tank is stronger than a single player....... With your logic a single player with Militia rifle should be able to kill an TITAN from EVE as easily than the TITAN to kill the little soldier ? Come one all of you tank driver try to explain to him. For me that's SO EVIDENT than a tank is supposed to be stronger than a dropsuits that i can't explain to him... Fine I'll leave em out of it, Stonger as in more health or survivability, yes. In terms of worth on the battle field no. If you want an example, you way say shuttle or frigate shouldn't be worth as much as say a super carrier? THIS video suggests otherwise. No i'm saying than an man with a small gun is not as powerful than a TANK. Which is pretty Logic.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1303	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:14:00 - [52] - Quote Guildo Crow wrote: how about a 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK tank? A tank and a dropsuit are not the same thing. You want to kill that tank... bring a tank. AV is supplementary. When it comes down to the basics, only a vehicle should "easily" take out another vehicle. Since tanks are balanced now, you can bring in a MLT tank and have a great chance at popping a STD tank. Game balancing shouldn't mean everything can kill everything equally. If that were the case, then make all suits and vehicles insta-kill each other at infinite range. USE the tanks! they are cheaper now, and easier to access for all players. So what happens when only one side brings tanks? Tell me have you ever been on the recieving end of 5 blaster turrets, in your redline? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 218	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:20:00 - [53] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Guildo Crow wrote: how about a 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK tank? A tank and a dropsuit are not the same thing. You want to kill that tank... bring a tank. AV is supplementary. When it comes down to the basics, only a vehicle should "easily" take out another vehicle. Since tanks are balanced now, you can bring in a MLT tank and have a great chance at popping a STD tank. Game balancing shouldn't mean everything can kill everything equally. If that were the case, then make all suits and vehicles insta-kill each other at infinite range. USE the tanks! they are cheaper now, and easier to access for all players. So what happens when only one side brings tanks? Tell me have you ever been on the recieving end of 5 blaster turrets, in your redline? If one side comes in underwear with a tooth pick. While the others are using Destroyers and Metal gears. It seems pretty logic than the side with technolgy wins isn't ? If the underwear side was 10x more and hided (like in vietnam) then OK they can win. But it's 16vs 16. They lose. That's exactly what he said. Militia tank can destroy normal tank easily with good timing. They have tanks ? Bring yours it's pretty cheap. I mean in Battlefield if one side have 4 T-90 and 3 LAV that's NORMAL they win over 7 poor soldier.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1303	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:22:00 - [54] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) Hold on, 5 players? You are saying a tank should have the equivalent force strength of a 5 man wolf pack? Are you serious? So a team with 5 tanks has a force strength of 36 against 16? And you wonder why WTF has a bad reputation for pub stomping, you wonder everyone and their mother is rushing to deploy there tank first? Ill say it once, Ill say it a thousand times. One tank alone should be no more effective than 1 infantry unit. 1tank == 1infantry 5tank == 5infantry 1tank + 4 infantry > 5 infantry Oh come on SERIOUSLY ? Why are you attacking WTF for what i'm saying ME ? As far as i remember i didn't protostomp. Please don't start speaking about WTF with no reason just..don't speak to me like i was an WTF. I mean that's a FREAKING TANK. That's EVIDENT than a tank is stronger than a single player....... With your logic a single player with Militia rifle should be able to kill an TITAN from EVE as easily than the TITAN to kill the little soldier ? Come one all of you tank driver try to explain to him. For me that's SO EVIDENT than a tank is supposed to be stronger than a dropsuits that i can't explain to him... Fine I'll leave em out of it, Stonger as in more health or survivability, yes. In terms of worth on the battle field no. If you want an example, you way say shuttle or frigate shouldn't be worth as much as say a super carrier? THIS video suggests otherwise. No i'm saying than an man with a small gun is not as powerful than a TANK. Which is pretty Logic. So you don't disagree with the video then? No he is not gonna be as 'Powerful', but that tank isn't likely to turn the tide of battle than an extra guy on the ground. If you start getting into the realms of 1 thing having more worth than another, the outcome of the battle devolves into simple math. They have higher force strength so they will win, tactics become pointless, teamwork becomes useless, even infantry gear no longer has an effect. In addition as someone pointed out, in EVE there is no soilder cap. If you bring in a titan, I could bring in 500 frigates to deal with it. Do you not think Bigger ships would be unfair if you could only 5 ships per side? Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1303	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:26:00 - [55] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Guildo Crow wrote: how about a 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK tank? A tank and a dropsuit are not the same thing. You want to kill that tank... bring a tank. AV is supplementary. When it comes down to the basics, only a vehicle should "easily" take out another vehicle. Since tanks are balanced now, you can bring in a MLT tank and have a great chance at popping a STD tank. Game balancing shouldn't mean everything can kill everything equally. If that were the case, then make all suits and vehicles insta-kill each other at infinite range. USE the tanks! they are cheaper now, and easier to access for all players. So what happens when only one side brings tanks? Tell me have you ever been on the recieving end of 5 blaster turrets, in your redline? If one side comes in underwear with a tooth pick. While the others are using Destroyers and Metal gears. It seems pretty logic than the side with technolgy wins isn't ? If the underwear side was 10x more and hided (like in vietnam) then OK they can win. But it's 16vs 16. They lose. That's exactly what he said. Militia tank can destroy normal tank easily with good timing. They have tanks ? Bring yours it's pretty cheap. I mean in Battlefield if one side have 4 T-90 and 3 LAV that's NORMAL they win over 7 poor soldier. In battlefield everyone has access to those same vehicles they are free and they respawn. It doesn't guarantee victory. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5207	Posted - 2013.12.23 01:47:00 - [56] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: Yes and no. "No" in that nothing in the game should be balanced on ISK alone. Balancing the battlefield is more important than balancing the cost. "Yes" in as much as effectiveness is measured overall, and not specifically by the ability to destroy it or its ability to kill. Its effectiveness needs to be limited to a specific realm. Right now, tanks are the most effective in all realms--they just need infantry to take care of the little stuff like hacking objectives. Their effectiveness needs to be limited by a redesign of the maps to limit their domain. True in some regards but New Eden is based on a harsh reality. You buy better stuff, you tend to win. Were not in some Starwars arcade defy all disbelief. In reality when you buy something of higher quality that someone else you tend to have better results from it. To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4221	Posted - 2013.12.23 05:18:00 - [57] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. I'd support this thread, but I'd just get called a traitor. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 769	Posted - 2013.12.23 06:57:00 - [58] - Quote On principal alone, it makes sense to me that a body costs the same or relatively more than a vehicle to produce. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
True Adamance Scions of Athra 5220	Posted - 2013.12.23 07:06:00 - [59] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: On principal alone, it makes sense to me that a body costs the same or relatively more than a vehicle to produce. Really seems to me the body would be cheaper to make than a compact internal vehicle powerplant To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi. Reference = ISK
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1307	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:03:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: On principal alone, it makes sense to me that a body costs the same or relatively more than a vehicle to produce. Really seems to me the body would be cheaper to make than a compact internal vehicle powerplant Fusion over new life, I would say they are about equal. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2026	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:44:00 - [61] - Quote Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much Intelligence is OP
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1492	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:48:00 - [62] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2026	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:05:00 - [63] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Double standards is there motto it seems Im just enjoying the ride Intelligence is OP
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1493	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:08:00 - [64] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Double standards is there motto it seems Im just enjoying the ride heres andother double standerd that mlt ar is op because of Aimbot it needs no skill it just locks on and auto tracks but my swarms and av nades take skill Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 585	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:18:00 - [65] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4935	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:34:00 - [66] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! I am immune to poison. Do not question your overlord human, I know better. Now, here is a mission for you: I want a meal made from exactly 7798989656465476878787989898983943 nanograms of dog. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 586	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:38:00 - [67] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! I am immune to poison. Do not question your overlord human, I know better. Now, here is a mission for you: I want a meal made from exactly 7798989656465476878787989898983943 nanograms of dog. Is that the sound of distant gunfire? I might have to "push'' you to cover... Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:29:00 - [68] - Quote does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple.
Jason Pearson 3608	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:51:00 - [69] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple. Welcome to the war between AV and Vehicles Swarms require skill Tanking does not. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 851	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:55:00 - [70] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple. Welcome to the war between AV and Vehicles Swarms require skill Tanking does not. Yep, we're scrubs who just want total OPness. Swarms were never OP - sometimes it took FIVE SHOTS to kill us - and it was totally fair that we couldn't ever see them or fight back. The shoe's on the other foot... you're wearing it poorly. EDIT: After all, by OP's logic, my 1.6 Vayu costing 2.9M should be as effective as your entire team. No matter what you're wearing. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 912	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:52:00 - [71] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Isk balancing, the worst battlefield balancing. Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
Jason Pearson 3608	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:01:00 - [72] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: After all, by OP's logic, my 1.6 Vayu costing 2.9M should be as effective as your entire team. No matter what you're wearing. ^ What say you Cat Merc. If you've got a 70k suit, my 500k tank should be worth atleast 7 players. Despite 5 people all firing militia swarms at me and killing me Q_Q I DEMAND A FIX King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 66	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:26:00 - [73] - Quote Cost is not relevant when the game balance is hysterical right now. As I said in a different forum with people QQing about RR versus CR OP: There are 10+ other weapons in this game that no ones seems to care about because they don't matter. They don't come close standing up to the rifle party. When I see a kill in my feed that is something other than an AR/RR/CR, my eyebrows raise in surprise. Same thing with AV versus tanks. I've seen the tanks are OP, AVers just need to learn teamwork, and heard a speech yesterday on how 'Jihad Jeeps' shouldn't be allowed. As a proto AVer, I'll admit, I'm super sad about the SP placed into the weapon. However, I picked up a PLC and got on with my life. This game is in turmoil, and its writhing around in pain. We all know by taking a step back that there is just too much in this game that needs review and editing. The final product of this game (8 years down the line...maybe..) will look like nothing it does today. So no, you don't need a respec. Eventually the game will change again and again and again for you to make more choices that turn out to be not for you. However, some of that learned skill, it might come back to serve you again. Until then, stop crying. If you can't stop crying, stop playing and return in a year to your passive sp bank. Yes, my proto swarmer was OP pre 1.7. When I can solo kill a tank before the RDV lets it go, there's something wrong. I feel this mechanic has now switched though, as I've seen way to may tanks get killed by other tanks before the RDV can release it, even behind the red line as a tank is fast enough to run in, kill, run out. No, my proto swarmer isn't UP post 1.7. It's the wrong weapon. I assume in the future (this is a hope) that there will be a vehicle variant that my proto swarmer is more effective against (ie, non shield tanks) and even if not, work with your team to get the shields down and nuke the bastard with your volley. Yes, tanks are too fast. I'll admit, this is a bit of a problem. My only gripe with tank vs AV, is a tank can literally outrun my AV swarm. I don't mean out run my lock, I mean out run my rockets. Don't feel that is accurate. Yes, you can survive tanks. I played a cat and mouse game the other day with a tank. He tried to kill me at an objective. We danced around this wall cover forever. Eventually he got tired of me. I assumed he was running militia gear in that tank as he never got frustrated enough to fight me head on. Yes, some games will suck more than others. I've had games where red had all the tanks and we had none and no it wasn't fun. Sometimes, you get a team where people are just not into tanks. I'm not vehicle infantry and never will be, find that kind of gameplay completely unenjoyable but sometimes, that's just how war goes. Yes, newberries are still getting the crappy end of the stick, but we just need to bring them up right. Even as a proto logi, I often run militia suits right now, because as it is, ttk is a joke. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 96	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:47:00 - [74] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) so when the enemy Team spawns 6 Tanks i need 30 other ppl, cause a tank should be as effective as 5 ppl? great...oh wait there are only 15 other ppl on my team... guess that wouldnt work and no i dont want to be forced to get a tank for myself cause i'm not a fotm chaser like most "Elite" players.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 322	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:49:00 - [75] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. I would label it as more effective, as it is immune to small arms fire. Unlike your dropsuit....... Nuff Said
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 203	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:52:00 - [76] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) "Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price." Why. Give me a good reason in terms of game balance. "A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective." Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. My gunnlogi is around 300k. Considering the base tank cost vs base protosuit cost is a fair bit more, the tank should be more effective. Plus its vehicle meant for armor support. Id say quit whining and learn to deal with the tanks but nobody takes these discussions to heart... Ima go mine some rocks Dedicated scout. New player tutor; scout instructor Scrambler Pistol dedication
Bad Heal PwNdCaKeSnRapLeSyrup 111	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:53:00 - [77] - Quote bear90211 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. You do know, their cutting the costs of suits and weapons to kill the QQ about vary small payouts. this will be fixed soon. Ouch. I don't like the sound of this
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 575	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:01:00 - [78] - Quote Screw ISK balancing. Just make the vehicle cap as one tank per side.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:18:00 - [79] - Quote the only thing that needs to be done regarding vehicles is making sure the other races variants get completed and released, that includes the turrets for them too. everyone needs to quit complaining about what we already have so we can get new stuff.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4937	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:22:00 - [80] - Quote What you don't realize is that both a buff and an ISK reduction is HIGHLY excessive. You do one or the other, because right now tanks are too cheap for the MASSIVE power they bring to the field. Also, about that 2.9m ISK tank comment, it's called diminishing returns. My proto suit is only slightly more powerful than my advanced suit, but it costs 4x as much. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 854	Posted - 2013.12.23 21:58:00 - [81] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What you don't realize is that both a buff and an ISK reduction is HIGHLY excessive. You do one or the other, because right now tanks are too cheap for the MASSIVE power they bring to the field. Also, about that 2.9m ISK tank comment, it's called diminishing returns. My proto suit is only slightly more powerful than my advanced suit, but it costs 4x as much. So my returns as a tank are far less significant for my investment than yours as infantry? My 2.9M is as close to your protosuit's tier as I'm going to get - at 30x more expensive, I was marginally more effective. All I can do is slay, but it's entirely plausible that infantry slayers will do better than me - there were a few that regularly out scored me no matter what I used, no matter what we played. In the end, if an MLT fit tank is equivalent to the performance of a high end ADV suit, I'd expect a top end fitting, once roles come back in, to be as much more effective than the MLT fit as your MLT is to your PRO (So double the EHP, DPS etc. have fun). EDIT: and what I realise is that this is explicitly a work in progress - I'd've very surprised if CCP weren't paying close attention to their metrics at the moment. More than they are to the forums, judging by Dev responses to tank QQ. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1762	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:11:00 - [82] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Easier said than done, as HAVs can't hack, nor crouch, and are larger targets, for example so how would you increase "effectiveness" then? How do you balance "effectiveness" for being invulnerable to small-arms fire? This is like saying dollar for dollar we should charge the same so a tasty chicken is the same tastiness as a tasty apple... Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1776	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:40:00 - [83] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As for dropsuits it has never been on the same lvl, my 100k dropsuit could destroyer a 400k tank before 1.7 with ease. Yeah well, now that 100k dropsuit has to die several times to get that same tank that now costs 100k. Or... you know... that 100k dropsuit could ignore the tank and stay away from it (or hide when it's there). Letting friendly tanks deal with the enemy tanks. Lack of content makes stuff broken... GÿåTank driverGÿå
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4950	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:41:00 - [84] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As for dropsuits it has never been on the same lvl, my 100k dropsuit could destroyer a 400k tank before 1.7 with ease. Yeah well, now that 100k dropsuit has to die several times to get that same tank that now costs 100k. Or... you know... that 100k dropsuit could ignore the tank and stay away from it (or hide when it's there). Letting friendly tanks deal with the enemy tanks. I would gladly do that if the tank would do that too. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:55:00 - [85] - Quote Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4951	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:58:00 - [86] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 260	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:59:00 - [87] - Quote Before 1.7 I solo'd 4 tanks in a row with my 3xDamage modded Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher. I just threw down my own nanohive and with 2-3 shots each I watched them circle around and crash into eachother in their panic - the isk lost was hilarious. I came on the forums and reported that it was maybe a tiny bit OP. I knew CCP lacked finesse in the nerf-buff life-cycle, but tank warefare was completely and utterly shut-down unless the team was stacked with n00bs. These days I'm quite happy to take out a Sica or Soma with an RE packed LAV, and I'm completely slaughtering other tanks with a 3x dam amp - adv rail - 2 hits most of the time. A 300K isk tank is a decent investment, and my swarm launchers are collecting dust. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:33:00 - [88] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. There is no "overall combat effectiveness" neither in the real world or in this game. And if you think that the maps are "designed" for tanks to move around everywhere then I seriously doubt you've driven in many. I play as a tanker occasionally, and I've lost count of all the frustrating moments where I cant pursue infantry due to inaccessible areas or hit them with the turret due to some "chest high wall" that provides them with exaggerated protection. If anything the maps serve more to HINDER tanks. Especially considering how a tank can get snagged on puny obstacles that a real world tank would've been able to push out of it's way or crush under the treads. But in dust, every little pebble, piece of debris, junk etc. Is firmly bolted to the ground and made of indestructible adamantium (or something)
Lorhak Gannarsein 865	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:41:00 - [89] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. Define overall combat effectiveness. Are we balancing for pubs? FW? PC? If pubs, Skirm? Dom? Ambush? Ambush is where the tears are being harvested at the moment; should tanks be balanced around a game mode where there's nothing to do but kill people? Should they be balanced around that, so they're approximately as good at slaying as an equivalent priced suit, then what? We take them into a skirmish, and they're useless, because an equally priced suit is as good at killing, but it can hack too? Or are you trying to balance in a way that can't be done? I hear that PC's basically unchanged with respect to the sheer number of tanks being spawned. Considering the nature of PC gameplay, if tanks really were OP game winning monstrosities at any level of SP, they'd spam them there? Another metric of their power: Nyain spams them in ambush. There's maybe one tank in Nyain FW squads. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9343	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:41:00 - [90] - Quote If someone cant make a 70k all militia tank perform like an all proto dropsuit over twice the cost, then they are doing something dramatically wrong. Vids / O7



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