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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
851
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Posted - 2013.12.23 13:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple. Welcome to the war between AV and Vehicles Swarms require skill Tanking does not.
Yep, we're scrubs who just want total OPness.
Swarms were never OP - sometimes it took FIVE SHOTS to kill us - and it was totally fair that we couldn't ever see them or fight back.
The shoe's on the other foot... you're wearing it poorly.
EDIT: After all, by OP's logic, my 1.6 Vayu costing 2.9M should be as effective as your entire team. No matter what you're wearing.
PRO tanker and proud.
Lentarr Legionary.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
854
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Posted - 2013.12.23 21:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:What you don't realize is that both a buff and an ISK reduction is HIGHLY excessive.
You do one or the other, because right now tanks are too cheap for the MASSIVE power they bring to the field.
Also, about that 2.9m ISK tank comment, it's called diminishing returns.
My proto suit is only slightly more powerful than my advanced suit, but it costs 4x as much.
So my returns as a tank are far less significant for my investment than yours as infantry?
My 2.9M is as close to your protosuit's tier as I'm going to get - at 30x more expensive, I was marginally more effective. All I can do is slay, but it's entirely plausible that infantry slayers will do better than me - there were a few that regularly out scored me no matter what I used, no matter what we played.
In the end, if an MLT fit tank is equivalent to the performance of a high end ADV suit, I'd expect a top end fitting, once roles come back in, to be as much more effective than the MLT fit as your MLT is to your PRO (So double the EHP, DPS etc. have fun).
EDIT: and what I realise is that this is explicitly a work in progress - I'd've very surprised if CCP weren't paying close attention to their metrics at the moment. More than they are to the forums, judging by Dev responses to tank QQ.
PRO tanker and proud.
Lentarr Legionary.
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Lorhak Gannarsein
865
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Posted - 2013.12.24 15:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness.
A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier.
You can't hack objectives in a tank either.
So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places.
Define overall combat effectiveness.
Are we balancing for pubs? FW? PC?
If pubs, Skirm? Dom? Ambush? Ambush is where the tears are being harvested at the moment; should tanks be balanced around a game mode where there's nothing to do but kill people?
Should they be balanced around that, so they're approximately as good at slaying as an equivalent priced suit, then what? We take them into a skirmish, and they're useless, because an equally priced suit is as good at killing, but it can hack too?
Or are you trying to balance in a way that can't be done?
I hear that PC's basically unchanged with respect to the sheer number of tanks being spawned. Considering the nature of PC gameplay, if tanks really were OP game winning monstrosities at any level of SP, they'd spam them there?
Another metric of their power: Nyain spams them in ambush.
There's maybe one tank in Nyain FW squads.
PRO tanker and proud.
Lentarr Legionary.
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