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A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit

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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2026	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:44:00 - [61] - Quote Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much Intelligence is OP
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1492	Posted - 2013.12.23 11:48:00 - [62] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2026	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:05:00 - [63] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Double standards is there motto it seems Im just enjoying the ride Intelligence is OP
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1493	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:08:00 - [64] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nah tanks need another ISK reduction Im still paying too much as I said before Takahiro its funny all these guys who werwe adamant that isk should not factor into balance when they are instapoping tanks but when things change and they can no longer instapop any tank they scream about isk and battle effectiveness ... im laughing my ass of .. Double standards is there motto it seems Im just enjoying the ride heres andother double standerd that mlt ar is op because of Aimbot it needs no skill it just locks on and auto tracks but my swarms and av nades take skill Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 585	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:18:00 - [65] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4935	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:34:00 - [66] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! I am immune to poison. Do not question your overlord human, I know better. Now, here is a mission for you: I want a meal made from exactly 7798989656465476878787989898983943 nanograms of dog. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 586	Posted - 2013.12.23 12:38:00 - [67] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k tank should be as effective as a 70k suit. That is all. Good feline, here , have some fish. Nomnomnom It could have been poisoned!!! I am immune to poison. Do not question your overlord human, I know better. Now, here is a mission for you: I want a meal made from exactly 7798989656465476878787989898983943 nanograms of dog. Is that the sound of distant gunfire? I might have to "push'' you to cover... Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:29:00 - [68] - Quote does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple.
Jason Pearson 3608	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:51:00 - [69] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple. Welcome to the war between AV and Vehicles Swarms require skill Tanking does not. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 851	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:55:00 - [70] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: does no one take into account the pilots skill and will to keep the tank moving and killing?? a tank without a driver wont kill anything, and a tank with a crappy driver might kill a few ppl, but a tank with a skilled driver will kill the entire team. so its not isk thats a probem its skill plain and simple. Welcome to the war between AV and Vehicles Swarms require skill Tanking does not. Yep, we're scrubs who just want total OPness. Swarms were never OP - sometimes it took FIVE SHOTS to kill us - and it was totally fair that we couldn't ever see them or fight back. The shoe's on the other foot... you're wearing it poorly. EDIT: After all, by OP's logic, my 1.6 Vayu costing 2.9M should be as effective as your entire team. No matter what you're wearing. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 912	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:52:00 - [71] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Isk balancing, the worst battlefield balancing. Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
Jason Pearson 3608	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:01:00 - [72] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: After all, by OP's logic, my 1.6 Vayu costing 2.9M should be as effective as your entire team. No matter what you're wearing. ^ What say you Cat Merc. If you've got a 70k suit, my 500k tank should be worth atleast 7 players. Despite 5 people all firing militia swarms at me and killing me Q_Q I DEMAND A FIX King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Public Disorder. 66	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:26:00 - [73] - Quote Cost is not relevant when the game balance is hysterical right now. As I said in a different forum with people QQing about RR versus CR OP: There are 10+ other weapons in this game that no ones seems to care about because they don't matter. They don't come close standing up to the rifle party. When I see a kill in my feed that is something other than an AR/RR/CR, my eyebrows raise in surprise. Same thing with AV versus tanks. I've seen the tanks are OP, AVers just need to learn teamwork, and heard a speech yesterday on how 'Jihad Jeeps' shouldn't be allowed. As a proto AVer, I'll admit, I'm super sad about the SP placed into the weapon. However, I picked up a PLC and got on with my life. This game is in turmoil, and its writhing around in pain. We all know by taking a step back that there is just too much in this game that needs review and editing. The final product of this game (8 years down the line...maybe..) will look like nothing it does today. So no, you don't need a respec. Eventually the game will change again and again and again for you to make more choices that turn out to be not for you. However, some of that learned skill, it might come back to serve you again. Until then, stop crying. If you can't stop crying, stop playing and return in a year to your passive sp bank. Yes, my proto swarmer was OP pre 1.7. When I can solo kill a tank before the RDV lets it go, there's something wrong. I feel this mechanic has now switched though, as I've seen way to may tanks get killed by other tanks before the RDV can release it, even behind the red line as a tank is fast enough to run in, kill, run out. No, my proto swarmer isn't UP post 1.7. It's the wrong weapon. I assume in the future (this is a hope) that there will be a vehicle variant that my proto swarmer is more effective against (ie, non shield tanks) and even if not, work with your team to get the shields down and nuke the bastard with your volley. Yes, tanks are too fast. I'll admit, this is a bit of a problem. My only gripe with tank vs AV, is a tank can literally outrun my AV swarm. I don't mean out run my lock, I mean out run my rockets. Don't feel that is accurate. Yes, you can survive tanks. I played a cat and mouse game the other day with a tank. He tried to kill me at an objective. We danced around this wall cover forever. Eventually he got tired of me. I assumed he was running militia gear in that tank as he never got frustrated enough to fight me head on. Yes, some games will suck more than others. I've had games where red had all the tanks and we had none and no it wasn't fun. Sometimes, you get a team where people are just not into tanks. I'm not vehicle infantry and never will be, find that kind of gameplay completely unenjoyable but sometimes, that's just how war goes. Yes, newberries are still getting the crappy end of the stick, but we just need to bring them up right. Even as a proto logi, I often run militia suits right now, because as it is, ttk is a joke. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 96	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:47:00 - [74] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) so when the enemy Team spawns 6 Tanks i need 30 other ppl, cause a tank should be as effective as 5 ppl? great...oh wait there are only 15 other ppl on my team... guess that wouldnt work and no i dont want to be forced to get a tank for myself cause i'm not a fotm chaser like most "Elite" players.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 322	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:49:00 - [75] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. I would label it as more effective, as it is immune to small arms fire. Unlike your dropsuit....... Nuff Said
Ivy Zalinto Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd 203	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:52:00 - [76] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. No. That's a Tank that's different. Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price. A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective. Militia Tank should just have no "Base" Modules and Turrets. I think Militia Tank should be empty. And to be use we should buy ourselves the turrets / and modules. Like that Militia tanks could be used without skills BUT will cost at least the same price than a Tank because we have to buy our weapons on. (Tank modules and weapons is really expensive even at militia level) "Tank is supposed to be more effective than 5 Players don't care about their ISK price." Why. Give me a good reason in terms of game balance. "A Unfitted Tank is maybe 70K ISK (Militia) but an real tank well fitted cost more than 10 fits and is not always as effective." Lmao, the most expensive tank fit I saw was 180k, I have dropsuits more expensive than that. My gunnlogi is around 300k. Considering the base tank cost vs base protosuit cost is a fair bit more, the tank should be more effective. Plus its vehicle meant for armor support. Id say quit whining and learn to deal with the tanks but nobody takes these discussions to heart... Ima go mine some rocks Dedicated scout. New player tutor; scout instructor Scrambler Pistol dedication
Bad Heal PwNdCaKeSnRapLeSyrup 111	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:53:00 - [77] - Quote bear90211 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. You do know, their cutting the costs of suits and weapons to kill the QQ about vary small payouts. this will be fixed soon. Ouch. I don't like the sound of this
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 575	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:01:00 - [78] - Quote Screw ISK balancing. Just make the vehicle cap as one tank per side.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 292	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:18:00 - [79] - Quote the only thing that needs to be done regarding vehicles is making sure the other races variants get completed and released, that includes the turrets for them too. everyone needs to quit complaining about what we already have so we can get new stuff.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4937	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:22:00 - [80] - Quote What you don't realize is that both a buff and an ISK reduction is HIGHLY excessive. You do one or the other, because right now tanks are too cheap for the MASSIVE power they bring to the field. Also, about that 2.9m ISK tank comment, it's called diminishing returns. My proto suit is only slightly more powerful than my advanced suit, but it costs 4x as much. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos

Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 854	Posted - 2013.12.23 21:58:00 - [81] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What you don't realize is that both a buff and an ISK reduction is HIGHLY excessive. You do one or the other, because right now tanks are too cheap for the MASSIVE power they bring to the field. Also, about that 2.9m ISK tank comment, it's called diminishing returns. My proto suit is only slightly more powerful than my advanced suit, but it costs 4x as much. So my returns as a tank are far less significant for my investment than yours as infantry? My 2.9M is as close to your protosuit's tier as I'm going to get - at 30x more expensive, I was marginally more effective. All I can do is slay, but it's entirely plausible that infantry slayers will do better than me - there were a few that regularly out scored me no matter what I used, no matter what we played. In the end, if an MLT fit tank is equivalent to the performance of a high end ADV suit, I'd expect a top end fitting, once roles come back in, to be as much more effective than the MLT fit as your MLT is to your PRO (So double the EHP, DPS etc. have fun). EDIT: and what I realise is that this is explicitly a work in progress - I'd've very surprised if CCP weren't paying close attention to their metrics at the moment. More than they are to the forums, judging by Dev responses to tank QQ. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1762	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:11:00 - [82] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A 70k ISK tank should be as effective as a 70k ISK suit. That is all. Easier said than done, as HAVs can't hack, nor crouch, and are larger targets, for example so how would you increase "effectiveness" then? How do you balance "effectiveness" for being invulnerable to small-arms fire? This is like saying dollar for dollar we should charge the same so a tasty chicken is the same tastiness as a tasty apple... Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1776	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:40:00 - [83] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As for dropsuits it has never been on the same lvl, my 100k dropsuit could destroyer a 400k tank before 1.7 with ease. Yeah well, now that 100k dropsuit has to die several times to get that same tank that now costs 100k. Or... you know... that 100k dropsuit could ignore the tank and stay away from it (or hide when it's there). Letting friendly tanks deal with the enemy tanks. Lack of content makes stuff broken... GÿåTank driverGÿå
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4950	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:41:00 - [84] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: As for dropsuits it has never been on the same lvl, my 100k dropsuit could destroyer a 400k tank before 1.7 with ease. Yeah well, now that 100k dropsuit has to die several times to get that same tank that now costs 100k. Or... you know... that 100k dropsuit could ignore the tank and stay away from it (or hide when it's there). Letting friendly tanks deal with the enemy tanks. I would gladly do that if the tank would do that too. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 11	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:55:00 - [85] - Quote Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4951	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:58:00 - [86] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 260	Posted - 2013.12.23 22:59:00 - [87] - Quote Before 1.7 I solo'd 4 tanks in a row with my 3xDamage modded Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher. I just threw down my own nanohive and with 2-3 shots each I watched them circle around and crash into eachother in their panic - the isk lost was hilarious. I came on the forums and reported that it was maybe a tiny bit OP. I knew CCP lacked finesse in the nerf-buff life-cycle, but tank warefare was completely and utterly shut-down unless the team was stacked with n00bs. These days I'm quite happy to take out a Sica or Soma with an RE packed LAV, and I'm completely slaughtering other tanks with a 3x dam amp - adv rail - 2 hits most of the time. A 300K isk tank is a decent investment, and my swarm launchers are collecting dust. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:33:00 - [88] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. There is no "overall combat effectiveness" neither in the real world or in this game. And if you think that the maps are "designed" for tanks to move around everywhere then I seriously doubt you've driven in many. I play as a tanker occasionally, and I've lost count of all the frustrating moments where I cant pursue infantry due to inaccessible areas or hit them with the turret due to some "chest high wall" that provides them with exaggerated protection. If anything the maps serve more to HINDER tanks. Especially considering how a tank can get snagged on puny obstacles that a real world tank would've been able to push out of it's way or crush under the treads. But in dust, every little pebble, piece of debris, junk etc. Is firmly bolted to the ground and made of indestructible adamantium (or something)
Lorhak Gannarsein 865	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:41:00 - [89] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Effective at doing what? Be it a dropsuit or a tank they have to have a purpose in mind in order to determine their effectiveness. A tank for instance will probably be extremely effective at killing infantry without risking destruction. The downside however is that a tank is cumbersome, turn slowly and too big to go everywhere a dropsuit can go. Not to mention the fact that a tank is a huge visible target whereas a dropsuit is small and can sneak around easier. You can't hack objectives in a tank either. So what sort of effectiveness are we discussing here? Overall combat effectiveness. The way the maps are designed, there is absolutely zero problem for tanks to move around, there are only a few rare instances where tanks are really useless. So those downsides don't really apply, unless tanks got a major nerf to overall movement. Or maybe make them bigger so they would have more difficulty fitting into places. Define overall combat effectiveness. Are we balancing for pubs? FW? PC? If pubs, Skirm? Dom? Ambush? Ambush is where the tears are being harvested at the moment; should tanks be balanced around a game mode where there's nothing to do but kill people? Should they be balanced around that, so they're approximately as good at slaying as an equivalent priced suit, then what? We take them into a skirmish, and they're useless, because an equally priced suit is as good at killing, but it can hack too? Or are you trying to balance in a way that can't be done? I hear that PC's basically unchanged with respect to the sheer number of tanks being spawned. Considering the nature of PC gameplay, if tanks really were OP game winning monstrosities at any level of SP, they'd spam them there? Another metric of their power: Nyain spams them in ambush. There's maybe one tank in Nyain FW squads. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9343	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:41:00 - [90] - Quote If someone cant make a 70k all militia tank perform like an all proto dropsuit over twice the cost, then they are doing something dramatically wrong. Vids / O7



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