DUST Search - Why Factional Warfare LP payments are utterly broken

Kasote Denzara wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

So?
That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low.

It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double.

I'm not arguing with you about the LP payouts. I've been supportive of slightly higher rewards, so do please drop the hostility towards me.

I will, however, argue with you about "great deals" since I brought up CPU and PG.

I'll go out of my way and mention the Commando suit. This suit at an advanced level has one high, one low, one equipment, two lights. If you've never ran the Commando, PG and CPU management is important. It's like a logistic suit except extremely restrictive on what could be ran. Unlike the logistic suits, however, ever slot in the Commando is important and dictate a style of play entirely on a higher scale. Instead of running a Duvolle and pretty much **** myself, I can run a specialized Duvolle and be able to use the remaining CPU and PG towards either my modules or my other light, which is also extremely important on the Commando.

I'll use another example, this one not including me. (How shocking.)

Let's talk about newer players. Let's face it: They're not going to immediately know to max out their cores. Maybe this guy spent nearly all his SP on getting operation V, prof. III Plasma Rifle. (Stupid as all hell move, but whatever.) Not only does that guy not have the extra PG and CPU that was gotten from cores, but his entire fitting is structured around a Plasma Rifle and whatever suit he chose to dump the rest in. You're going to stand there and tell me that a prototype weapon that has the CPU and PG of an advanced weapon would not be ideal to this guy?

Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4841	Posted - 2013.12.21 10:46:00 - [1] - Quote So, I lost all my motivation to play FW. Gallente are kicking ass, so it's not like I'll be helping my faction by playing, so the only thing left for me would be the reward. LP items are basically normal items with lowered skill requirements, but as someone who has maxed almost all the gear he uses, I need them to have good time --> reward investment (as in, the least amount of matches to gain the most amount of items). And that's where payments fall apart. Let's look at the Republic Freedom Mass Driver. ISK cost: 7,083 LP cost: 100 LP Now the Freedom Mass Driver: ISK cost: 47,220 So in order to figure out the LP value, we subtract the ISK cost from the Freedom Mass Drive by the ISK cost of the Republic one, then divide the result with the LP cost. (47,220 - 7,083) / 100 = 401 ISK per LP Now, in order to get the ISK reward per match, we multiply the LP we get per match by the ISK value of LP: You get 659 LP at level 10 if you win, so: 401 * 659 = 264,259 ISK And there is also the LP booster, boosted LP payout is 823 LP: 401 * 823 = 330,023 ISK Seems legit right? You get as much ISK as public contracts right? WRONG. LP is devalued by the fact that you can only buy specific stuff, unlike ISK that is usable to buy everywhere. But you could say that LP items are equal to Aurum items, so it evens out right? But.... Another problem: YOU GET AS MUCH ISK AS PUBLIC CONTRACTS. "Wait what? How is that a problem?" you might ask. I'll tell you why. Because FW matches require more risk. You need to WIN THE MATCH, and you need to endure TEAM KILLING AND you NEED TO GET TO LEVEL 10 JUST to have the same reward as public contracts that have no such problems. So: FW contracts: Have to win the match - Check Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Check Have to endure team killing - Check = Public contracts: Have to win the match - Nope Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Nope Have to endure team killing - Nope Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6548	Posted - 2013.12.21 10:48:00 - [2] - Quote Try calculating without level 10 standings and a booster. Also, you don't win every match. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4842	Posted - 2013.12.21 10:49:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Try calculating without level 10 standings and a booster. Also, you don't win every match. I already calculated without a booster. Plus I mentioned that the fact you don't win every match is a problem in terms of payouts. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1446	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:00:00 - [4] - Quote Meh. You can't get specialized weapons without LP, so there's that. You also have (near) zero impact on New Eden outside of FW. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara The Traitor, in the name of "freedom".
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4845	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:01:00 - [5] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Meh. You can't get specialized weapons without LP, so there's that. You also have (near) zero impact on New Eden outside of FW. Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1287	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:02:00 - [6] - Quote Salvage I get about 90,000 isk salvage on average, more if blow up some tanks. And why are you buying the aurum versions, specialist fitting is where its at! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 164	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:04:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Meh. You can't get specialized weapons without LP, so there's that. You also have (near) zero impact on New Eden outside of FW. Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. LP payouts should be at least 1,000 at level 1, increasing by around 500 per level, and losing LP at level 1 should be 350 or 400 or something recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1446	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:04:00 - [8] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. Specialized weapons also use CPU and PG of Advanced weapons. You get what you pay for. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara The Traitor, in the name of "freedom".
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4845	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:05:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Salvage I get about 90,000 isk salvage on average, more if blow up some tanks. And why are you buying the aurum versions, specialist fitting is where its at! That entirely depends on what other players bring. They could all run BPO's, and they might as well when they realize the payout is so low. And as I said, specialist weapons cost double the LP and ISK. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 523	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:05:00 - [10] - Quote specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4845	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:06:00 - [11] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. Specialized weapons also use CPU and PG of Advanced weapons. You get what you pay for. So? That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low. It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 973	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:09:00 - [12] - Quote Expected Payout = Sum(Probablity to win match NPayout for winning match N)(scale factor of loyalty level) Im not putting my foot in FW. It-¦s not good even if you win every match. CCP has miserably failed at understanding a game mode needs incentive to play. Look at this also Cat Merc: https://twitter.com/RegnerBA/status/408964220324032512 Three days before FW 2.0 is released, CCP SoxFour changes the FW rewards to be better. How ****** was it before in that case? Doesnt matter in Dust 514: PC. FW Standing. Tanking Type. Other mods than DMG or HP. Does matter in Dust 514: Rifles.
Bunny Demon Scions of Athra 31	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:12:00 - [13] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Meh. You can't get specialized weapons without LP, so there's that. You also have (near) zero impact on New Eden outside of FW. Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. LP payouts should be at least 1,000 at level 1, increasing by around 500 per level, and losing LP at level 1 should be 350 or 400 or something I would go for this because I could run proto every game then..... But so could everyone else so your values may be a bit high Donate isk to the guy above ^ (Or me, whichever you prefer)
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6548	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:12:00 - [14] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1447	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:13:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So? That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low. It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double. I'm not arguing with you about the LP payouts. I've been supportive of slightly higher rewards, so do please drop the hostility towards me. I will, however, argue with you about "great deals" since I brought up CPU and PG. I'll go out of my way and mention the Commando suit. This suit at an advanced level has one high, one low, one equipment, two lights. If you've never ran the Commando, PG and CPU management is important. It's like a logistic suit except extremely restrictive on what could be ran. Unlike the logistic suits, however, ever slot in the Commando is important and dictate a style of play entirely on a higher scale. Instead of running a Duvolle and pretty much ** myself, I can run a specialized Duvolle and be able to use the remaining CPU and PG towards either my modules or my other light, which is also extremely important on the Commando. I'll use another example, this one not including me. (How shocking.) Let's talk about newer players. Let's face it: They're not going to immediately know to max out their cores. Maybe this guy spent nearly all his SP on getting operation V, prof. III Plasma Rifle. (Stupid as all hell move, but whatever.) Not only does that guy not have the extra PG and CPU that was gotten from cores, but his entire fitting is structured around a Plasma Rifle and whatever suit he chose to dump the rest in. You're going to stand there and tell me that a prototype weapon that has the CPU and PG of an advanced weapon would not** be ideal to this guy? "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara The Traitor, in the name of "freedom".
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 523	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:16:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. so regular nanite injectors have a 100% res? a 90 rep per second core repair? the uplinks are lackluster ill give you that. and the anti-scout scanner has double the visability. so aside from the uplinks your wrong.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4845	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:18:00 - [17] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. so regular nanite injectors have a 100% res? a 90 rep per second core repair? the uplinks are lackluster ill give you that. and the anti-scout scanner has double the visability. so aside from the uplinks your wrong. Proto nanite injectors do 100%. Focused Core Repair tool does 175 hp/s. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4845	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:22:00 - [18] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So? That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low. It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double. I'm not arguing with you about the LP payouts. I've been supportive of slightly higher rewards, so do please drop the hostility towards me. I will, however, argue with you about "great deals" since I brought up CPU and PG. I'll go out of my way and mention the Commando suit. This suit at an advanced level has one high, one low, one equipment, two lights. If you've never ran the Commando, PG and CPU management is important. It's like a logistic suit except extremely restrictive on what could be ran. Unlike the logistic suits, however, ever slot in the Commando is important and dictate a style of play entirely on a higher scale. Instead of running a Duvolle and pretty much ** myself, I can run a specialized Duvolle and be able to use the remaining CPU and PG towards either my modules or my other light, which is also extremely important on the Commando. I'll use another example, this one not including me. (How shocking.) Let's talk about newer players. Let's face it: They're not going to immediately know to max out their cores. Maybe this guy spent nearly all his SP on getting operation V, prof. III Plasma Rifle. (Stupid as all hell move, but whatever.) Not only does that guy not have the extra PG and CPU that was gotten from cores, but his entire fitting is structured around a Plasma Rifle and whatever suit he chose to dump the rest in. You're going to stand there and tell me that a prototype weapon that has the CPU and PG of an advanced weapon would not be ideal to this guy? That's true, but those are a few edge cases where this stuff is useful. Most other times I just say ** it and run a GEK, because it's much cheaper, and the damage increase to a duvolle is only marginal. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 165	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:25:00 - [19] - Quote Bunny Demon wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Meh. You can't get specialized weapons without LP, so there's that. You also have (near) zero impact on New Eden outside of FW. Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. LP payouts should be at least 1,000 at level 1, increasing by around 500 per level, and losing LP at level 1 should be 350 or 400 or something I would go for this because I could run proto every game then..... But so could everyone else so your values may be a bit high everyone spams proto logi's, and 1,000 lp is like 3 fittings, besides you HAVE to win, and people who are rich spam proto, this would make the game balanced no more STD VS proto matches. risk=reward recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 523	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:29:00 - [20] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. so regular nanite injectors have a 100% res? a 90 rep per second core repair? the uplinks are lackluster ill give you that. and the anti-scout scanner has double the visability. so aside from the uplinks your wrong. Proto nanite injectors do 100%. Focused Core Repair tool does 175 hp/s. proto injectors do 80% the repper is a better version of a different varient of repair tool :P so while the focused repairs more, the republic one is better in other areas plus FW was made with the market in mind. and those exclusive items + salvage from the match will INCREASE the isk payout per match. so while right NOW its not worth it to run proto (obviously) once the market launches (SOONtm) the isk generation from FW will go WAY up

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6552	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:39:00 - [21] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. so regular nanite injectors have a 100% res? a 90 rep per second core repair? the uplinks are lackluster ill give you that. and the anti-scout scanner has double the visability. so aside from the uplinks your wrong. 90 rep per second core repair - check, six kin triage. Duvolle quantum > the federation scanner. Nanite injectors with 100%, I'll give you that. But barely, seeing as that 20% will rarely make a difference. The nanohives are also pointless because ammo is plentiful with semidecent hives anyway. And, as you said, the uplinks are lacklustre. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 523	Posted - 2013.12.21 11:41:00 - [22] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: specialist weapons and the faction equipment are priceless cant obtain them anywhere else and they alow for extreme suit fittings and setups. The faction equipment is outperformed by variants you can buy normally, for the most part. Specialist weapons can easily be replaced by an ADV version for the same fittings and only marginally less damage. so regular nanite injectors have a 100% res? a 90 rep per second core repair? the uplinks are lackluster ill give you that. and the anti-scout scanner has double the visability. so aside from the uplinks your wrong. 90 rep per second core repair - check, six kin triage. Duvolle quantum > the federation scanner. Nanite injectors with 100%, I'll give you that. But barely, seeing as that 20% will rarely make a difference. The nanohives are also pointless because ammo is plentiful with semidecent hives anyway. And, as you said, the uplinks are lacklustre. plus FW was made with the market in mind. and those exclusive items + salvage from the match will INCREASE the isk payout per match. so while right NOW its not worth it to run proto (obviously) once the market launches (SOONtm) the isk generation from FW will go WAY up by your own numbers this will double to tripple the FW ISK profits over pub matches depending on market values (since popular AUR gear will also be more valuble then regular isk gear due to reduced skill requirements, meaning that republic freedom will sell for more then the isk freedom :P by YOUR numbers FW pays out on average the same as a pub match.... and nobody uses proto there right?
FEELIN FROGGY Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2013.12.21 12:32:00 - [23] - Quote I can't even believe you are complaining about this. Caldari have it 10x as hard as you stinky Frogs. My main is still only lvl 2 Caldari after doing dozens and dozens of matches. Know why, because we hardly ever fuking win, thus never gain standing. All you Frogs have the easy mode on cruise control because there are so damn many of you spamming FW and so few Caldari. You could AFK all the time and make more LP than I ever will actually trying to win a game. STFU you little bitchh! Destroy the Frogs . . . from within.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 762	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:01:00 - [24] - Quote FEELIN FROGGY wrote: I can't even believe you are complaining about this. Caldari have it 10x as hard as you stinky Frogs. My main is still only lvl 2 Caldari after doing dozens and dozens of matches. Know why, because we hardly ever fuking win, thus never gain standing. All you Frogs have the easy mode on cruise control because there are so damn many of you spamming FW and so few Caldari. You could AFK all the time and make more LP than I ever will actually trying to win a game. STFU you little bitchh! He brings up a good point in an obtuse way (p.s. Totally support griefing Gallente, why should they be immune). One of the bigger issues is that it's all or none and payouts have little to nothing to do with your contribution. I could AFK in Gallente FW for a single day and gain substantially more LP and standings than I have in the past week of playing hard and dying in Amarr FW. The worst blueberry on the winning team who goes 1/15 with 50 WP gets 10x the benefits of the best player on the losing side who goes 12/10 with 2000 WP (been there done that). Same with someone who AFK'd. That's wrong. No question that winning should get you a bigger payout, but all or nothing is BS and is only going to make FW more unbalanced because people are bailing out (on Caldari especially) in droves. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 525	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:27:00 - [25] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: FEELIN FROGGY wrote: I can't even believe you are complaining about this. Caldari have it 10x as hard as you stinky Frogs. My main is still only lvl 2 Caldari after doing dozens and dozens of matches. Know why, because we hardly ever fuking win, thus never gain standing. All you Frogs have the easy mode on cruise control because there are so damn many of you spamming FW and so few Caldari. You could AFK all the time and make more LP than I ever will actually trying to win a game. STFU you little bitchh! He brings up a good point in an obtuse way (p.s. Totally support griefing Gallente, why should they be immune). One of the bigger issues is that it's all or none and payouts have little to nothing to do with your contribution. I could AFK in Gallente FW for a single day and gain substantially more LP and standings than I have in the past week of playing hard and dying in Amarr FW. The worst blueberry on the winning team who goes 1/15 with 50 WP gets 10x the benefits of the best player on the losing side who goes 12/10 with 2000 WP (been there done that). Same with someone who AFK'd. That's wrong. No question that winning should get you a bigger payout, but all or nothing is BS and is only going to make FW more unbalanced because people are bailing out (on Caldari especially) in droves. win loss ratio kinda defeats that 1 AFK player loweres the chance of a win. so you will lose more games AFKing then if you were playing. lowering your LP gain. a good squad with a high win loss ratio in FW will make substantially more playing then AFKing. its a higher level of play in FW, winning MEANS something, and people will play hard for the win as a result, right now without the market its lackluster, but once the market comes the payouts from wins and salvage will STILL pay out more isk then pub matches. for instance, as amaar against proto stomping minmatar you will make substantial isk in salvage alone, alowing you to run decent gear without draining your wallet without a win. and those wins will be substatially more profitable as amaar then on the oposit side as minmatar due to reduced availability of amaar LP items, their ISK values will be ALOT higher and so much more profit will be made off wins for amaar then minmatar. it sucks right now because there is no market, but once the market comes out the profit for FW will pay for itself even on losing teams.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4847	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:06:00 - [26] - Quote FEELIN FROGGY wrote: I can't even believe you are complaining about this. Caldari have it 10x as hard as you stinky Frogs. My main is still only lvl 2 Caldari after doing dozens and dozens of matches. Know why, because we hardly ever fuking win, thus never gain standing. All you Frogs have the easy mode on cruise control because there are so damn many of you spamming FW and so few Caldari. You could AFK all the time and make more LP than I ever will actually trying to win a game. STFU you little bitchh! Butthurt much? Try actually winning you ****. This isn't about Caldari vs Gallente. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 762	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:08:00 - [27] - Quote You are assuming that if you AFK in Gallente FW you are more likely to lose than if you play well in Caldari. That assumption is incorrect. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 525	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:10:00 - [28] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: You are assuming that if you AFK in Gallente FW you are more likely to lose than if you play well in Caldari. That assumption is incorrect. me and my squad did caldari and win 80% of our games.... its not as hard to win as you think, it just requires that you bring friends.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4847	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:12:00 - [29] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You are assuming that if you AFK in Gallente FW you are more likely to lose than if you play well in Caldari. That assumption is incorrect. me and my squad did caldari and win 80% of our games.... its not as hard to win as you think, it just requires that you bring friends. Or not suck. I wonder how many that complain about blueberries in Caldari FW are actually bad themselves. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 762	Posted - 2013.12.21 14:28:00 - [30] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: You are assuming that if you AFK in Gallente FW you are more likely to lose than if you play well in Caldari. That assumption is incorrect. me and my squad did caldari and win 80% of our games.... its not as hard to win as you think, it just requires that you bring friends. Or not suck. I wonder how many that complain about blueberries in Caldari FW are actually bad themselves. Spin it all you want, but when the NF squads decided they needed to start qsynching that's all the proof I needed that it wasn't just my bad luck and lack of l33t skillz. Again, if 7 people (I have pics) on my team end up with 0 WP and the #4 player on the board is a shotgun/revive awoxer not much can be done about that. (King kobrah was in my squad, does he need to git gud?) I have no doubt there are bad players complaining but that doesn't mean the system isn't flawed. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!



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