DUST Search - Why Factional Warfare LP payments are utterly broken

Cat Merc wrote:

So, I lost all my motivation to play FW.
Gallente are kicking ass, so it's not like I'll be helping my faction by playing, so the only thing left for me would be the reward.

LP items are basically normal items with lowered skill requirements, but as someone who has maxed almost all the gear he uses, I need them to have good time --> reward investment (as in, the least amount of matches to gain the most amount of items).

And that's where payments fall apart.

Let's look at the Republic Freedom Mass Driver.
ISK cost: 7,083
LP cost: 100 LP

Now the Freedom Mass Driver:
ISK cost: 47,220

So in order to figure out the LP value, we subtract the ISK cost from the Freedom Mass Drive by the ISK cost of the Republic one, then divide the result with the LP cost.

(47,220 - 7,083) / 100 = 401 ISK per LP

Now, in order to get the ISK reward per match, we multiply the LP we get per match by the ISK value of LP:
You get 659 LP at level 10 if you win, so:
401 * 659 = 264,259 ISK

Provided by Arkena:
130726 ISK at level 0
130726 ISK at level 1
140350 ISK at level 2
150375 ISK at level 3
161603 ISK at level 4
186064 ISK at level 5
199297 ISK at level 6
214134 ISK at level 7
229372 ISK at level 8
246214 ISK at level 9
264259 ISK at level 10

Seems legit right?
You get as much ISK as public contracts at level 10 right?
WRONG.
LP is devalued by the fact that you can only buy specific stuff, unlike ISK that is usable to buy everywhere.
But you could say that LP items are equal to Aurum items, so it evens out right? But....

Another problem:
YOU GET AS MUCH ISK AS PUBLIC CONTRACTS.
"Wait what? How is that a problem?" you might ask.
I'll tell you why.

Because FW matches require more risk.

You need to WIN THE MATCH, and you need to endure TEAM KILLING AND you NEED TO GET TO LEVEL 10 JUST to have the same reward as public contracts that have no such problems.

If you don't win the match, your payout is a fraction!

You have to grind 200 matches before you have this payout!

You have the risk of dumb teammates who don't watch their fire, and griefers.

So:
FW contracts:
Have to win the match - Check
Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Check
Have to endure team killing - Check

=

Public contracts:
Have to win the match - Nope
Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Nope
Have to endure team killing - Nope

tl;dr
Risk vs Reward is broken in FW and payouts need a massive increase before it's viable.

Edit:

Cat Merc wrote:

Kasote Denzara wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK.

Specialized weapons also use CPU and PG of Advanced weapons. You get what you pay for.

So?
That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low.

It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double.

Specialist weapons and equipment cost double, and no, they aren't priceless, especially not once the secondary market comes in.

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Mortedeamor Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1050	Posted - 2013.12.21 20:43:00 - [61] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So, I lost all my motivation to play FW. Gallente are kicking ass, so it's not like I'll be helping my faction by playing, so the only thing left for me would be the reward. LP items are basically normal items with lowered skill requirements, but as someone who has maxed almost all the gear he uses, I need them to have good time --> reward investment (as in, the least amount of matches to gain the most amount of items). And that's where payments fall apart. Let's look at the Republic Freedom Mass Driver. ISK cost: 7,083 LP cost: 100 LP Now the Freedom Mass Driver: ISK cost: 47,220 So in order to figure out the LP value, we subtract the ISK cost from the Freedom Mass Drive by the ISK cost of the Republic one, then divide the result with the LP cost. (47,220 - 7,083) / 100 = 401 ISK per LP Now, in order to get the ISK reward per match, we multiply the LP we get per match by the ISK value of LP: You get 659 LP at level 10 if you win, so: 401 * 659 = 264,259 ISK Provided by Arkena: 130726 ISK at level 0 130726 ISK at level 1 140350 ISK at level 2 150375 ISK at level 3 161603 ISK at level 4 186064 ISK at level 5 199297 ISK at level 6 214134 ISK at level 7 229372 ISK at level 8 246214 ISK at level 9 264259 ISK at level 10 Seems legit right? You get as much ISK as public contracts at level 10 right? WRONG. LP is devalued by the fact that you can only buy specific stuff, unlike ISK that is usable to buy everywhere. But you could say that LP items are equal to Aurum items, so it evens out right? But.... Another problem: YOU GET AS MUCH ISK AS PUBLIC CONTRACTS. "Wait what? How is that a problem?" you might ask. I'll tell you why. Because FW matches require more risk. You need to WIN THE MATCH, and you need to endure TEAM KILLING AND you NEED TO GET TO LEVEL 10 JUST to have the same reward as public contracts that have no such problems. If you don't win the match, your payout is a fraction! You have to grind 200 matches before you have this payout! You have the risk of dumb teammates who don't watch their fire, and griefers. So: FW contracts: Have to win the match - Check Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Check Have to endure team killing - Check = Public contracts: Have to win the match - Nope Have to reach level 10 to have any decent reward - Nope Have to endure team killing - Nope tl;dr Risk vs Reward is broken in FW and payouts need a massive increase before it's viable. Edit: Cat Merc wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Specialized weapons cost double the LP and ISK. Specialized weapons also use CPU and PG of Advanced weapons. You get what you pay for. So? That doesn't change the fact that LP rewards are low. It's not like these weapons are a great deal or something, they cost double. Specialist weapons and equipment cost double, and no, they aren't priceless, especially not once the secondary market comes in. the solution is simple....play a better game...almost 2 years now and risk vs rewards as never once been balanced or even worth it..mathematically the only smart thing to do in dust is afk..we all know this
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 778	Posted - 2013.12.21 21:16:00 - [62] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: m twiggz wrote: Factional Warefare really needs a change to the LP payout. Its sad that some players can do very well on a losing team and end up with the same reward as the people AFK'ing in the MCC. This also works both ways. If you're on a winning team and AFK'ing you get the same amount of LP as the people actually losing suits and going for the win. Given you have the same level for that particular faction, but I assume you get my point. 2 things should happen: 1. Your WP should increase your LP payout 2. LP payout needs to be bigger. Something about 1200 at level 10 would be good. And there needs to be some (small is fine) standings increase for the top players on the losing team, otherwise the tide of battle will never turn b/c people will keep leaving the losing side (I.e., Caldari) and set up a vicious cycle. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 176	Posted - 2013.12.22 02:08:00 - [63] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: It is not that all the Gallente are better players. They have more players. WAY more players. And so yes buy default they have a larger pool of better players and more players with high SP than the Caldari do. The main problem with the Caldari side is the massive amount of noobs and randoms that get thrown into a cal match because the other three races were already filled up. So even when the few good Caldari work together, we often still lose because the rest of our team is so awful. There is not much a six man squad can do on the Caldari side when the rest of the team gets you cloned or they hide in the red line/afk in the MCC. huh... That's an interesting analysis. Though I'm pretty sure Caldari are the most popular race. They are in EVE so I wonder why it would be different in Dust. You're not looking at why they're so popular in eve, and that's because of the ease of use that missiles provide and how easy shield tanking is. In dust gallente are popular because of the duvolle and the gallogi, both of which were considered op for quote some time (and in many ways still are).


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