i wouldn't have a problem not being able to kill tanks if the it was the same the other way around. my biggest problem is the fact that a tank can kill ANYTHING with ease while infantry have to use all this"teamwork" to take out one tank that costs less than less than a proto scout suit. no matter how you look at it, that is WRONG and needs to be fixed. infantry can be killed by ANYTHING easily while there are only 4-5 weapons that can harm a tank, even if the tanker has ZERO sp into tanks.

most of what you're saying is actually true, or at least i believe it. but to be honest, i would rather deal with good tankers than this tank fest we have now.

Why make a duplicate thread?

if you can't read I can't help you

I moved this here because the other thread is doomed to obscurity. I hope to have a les biased discussion. The cycle will begin anew and we will be doomed to imbalance. If we cover a few issues we can take advantage of the progress that has been made.

Tanks need to be less effective against infantry, which I think is best accomplished by re-designing many of the old maps to create more areas where going infantry is really the only way to get anything done, while still providing open spaces and key points that are tactically significant for vehicles to hold and fight over, and also adding some points from which AV have a tactical advantage over vehicles (but are still vulnerable to infantry), so that, for example, controlling a null cannon wins you the game, controlling a vehicle tactical point can influence the ability to control a null cannon, and controlling an AV tactical point can influence the ability to control a vehicle tactical point.

A re-design would take a long time, but I'm convinced it's the number one factor in vehicle/AV balance at this point.

What progress... the only thing i've seen is regression

A militia tank should be slightly stronger than Militia AV or standard AV. Gives the sense of competition and achievement. A tanker spends a lot of SP, so does a proper AV user. So if a Proto AV user can't even fight a MLT tank, What are they supposed to when 2-3 decent tanks show up?! First it's the Forge gun. I know most were using it as an anti infantry weapon. But now it's not as great against Vehicles either. Proto Swarm nerfed to half of it's capabilities. If it was MLT, STD or ADV i would understand. But Even with Proto AVs with Prof 5 and some, i can barely keep up with Sicas and Somas.

explain this. Your argument supports the death of the Nerf cycle. This would make a great game

I think the problem is not tanks, but the number of them that can be deployed at once. AV dealing with two tanks is manageable. 5-6, not so much.

The price increase makes spamming then much less profitable, and those who do spam them will quickly lose the isk to do so. Tanks should be powerful, but also costly if destroyed.

Nerfing tanks, especially nerfing their modules, nerfs LAVs and drop ships too. You can't make a vehicle vs AV thread and talk only about tanks. Thats like making a infantry balance thread and not talking about heavies and light suits.

agreed. There are overlooked aspects of AV/V which need attention too.

As i have said in other posts... the balance was fine in 1.6, i ran a proto AV fit and alone could only manage to hold back a proto fit tank proto V proto = balance. My proto AV fit V militia tank = no contest. Proto fit tank V militia or advanced AV = no contest.... now we're back to 1.3 tank indestructability ie regression

I love how experienced tankers are saying MLT tanks are the problem. It shows a lack of integrity. Many have taken the stance of claiming to not kill infantry. They are trying to pin the blame on the ability to call in cheap MLT tanks.

lets ask a few questions.

what do you think is going to happen to the price of STD tanks if MLT goes up?

How will nerfing MLT tanks help the fact that AV can't effectively counter tanks?

what are these crusaders going to shoot at when there are no MLT tanks?

if it takes 3 AV to deal with a tank and there are 3tanks, how many are left to fight the other 13 guys on the ground?

Do people honestly believe the smoke screen these skilled tankers are putting up?

Be honest here because I play both sides. How many rail tanks does it take to stop vehicles from coming in?

If you don't have a skilled tanker how will you deal with another skilled tanker?

IMO these guys are incapable of seeing anything beyond their own turret. Its the tanking mentality. I have it too. When another tank on my team gets popped in always thinking "better him than me". I think this is something like that. What they do not realize is it will be more like "first him then me".

one more question.

After you get rid of your scapegoat, what will you hide behind?

I personally believe we will then have a crusade against OP tanks and it will come down to buffing AV. Its obvious really. So we see the tankers care nothing for the infantry they are now painting as the victim. They are just buying time until CCP gives us the means to defend ourselves. Its all very short sighted.

a final question. Why wait for balance?

Why make a duplicate thread?

ITT: People that don't remember the Segaris and Surya. These tanks are pushovers compared to those.

careful here. This is a sensitive subject.

I used all forms of AV in 1.6. And I tanked. Swarms were stupidly OP when coupled with rendering issues.

A militia tank should be slightly stronger than Militia AV or standard AV. Gives the sense of competition and achievement. A tanker spends a lot of SP, so does a proper AV user. So if a Proto AV user can't even fight a MLT tank, What are they supposed to when 2-3 decent tanks show up?! First it's the Forge gun. I know most were using it as an anti infantry weapon. But now it's not as great against Vehicles either. Proto Swarm nerfed to half of it's capabilities. If it was MLT, STD or ADV i would understand. But Even with Proto AVs with Prof 5 and some, i can barely keep up with Sicas and Somas.

This could have easily been fixed by adding GÇ£LockingGÇ¥, GÇ£LockGÇ¥, and GÇ£Missiles InboundGÇ¥ warnings for vehicles. Could have been an icon on the HUD that starts blinking Yellow when someone is attempting to lock you, starts blinking Orange when you are locked, and starts blinking Red when missals have been fired. Accompany it will an audio warning. Then rendering issues would have not mattered when it came to the missals.

Now the fact that the infantry did not render would still have been a problem, but at least you would have had warning before the first missal hit.

careful here. This is a sensitive subject.

I used all forms of AV in 1.6. And I tanked. Swarms were stupidly OP when coupled with rendering issues.