i wouldn't have a problem not being able to kill tanks if the it was the same the other way around. my biggest problem is the fact that a tank can kill ANYTHING with ease while infantry have to use all this"teamwork" to take out one tank that costs less than less than a proto scout suit. no matter how you look at it, that is WRONG and needs to be fixed. infantry can be killed by ANYTHING easily while there are only 4-5 weapons that can harm a tank, even if the tanker has ZERO sp into tanks.

most of what you're saying is actually true, or at least i believe it. but to be honest, i would rather deal with good tankers than this tank fest we have now.

Why make a duplicate thread?

Tanks need to be less effective against infantry, which I think is best accomplished by re-designing many of the old maps to create more areas where going infantry is really the only way to get anything done, while still providing open spaces and key points that are tactically significant for vehicles to hold and fight over, and also adding some points from which AV have a tactical advantage over vehicles (but are still vulnerable to infantry), so that, for example, controlling a null cannon wins you the game, controlling a vehicle tactical point can influence the ability to control a null cannon, and controlling an AV tactical point can influence the ability to control a vehicle tactical point.

A re-design would take a long time, but I'm convinced it's the number one factor in vehicle/AV balance at this point.

What progress... the only thing i've seen is regression

A militia tank should be slightly stronger than Militia AV or standard AV. Gives the sense of competition and achievement. A tanker spends a lot of SP, so does a proper AV user. So if a Proto AV user can't even fight a MLT tank, What are they supposed to when 2-3 decent tanks show up?! First it's the Forge gun. I know most were using it as an anti infantry weapon. But now it's not as great against Vehicles either. Proto Swarm nerfed to half of it's capabilities. If it was MLT, STD or ADV i would understand. But Even with Proto AVs with Prof 5 and some, i can barely keep up with Sicas and Somas.

I think the problem is not tanks, but the number of them that can be deployed at once. AV dealing with two tanks is manageable. 5-6, not so much.

The price increase makes spamming then much less profitable, and those who do spam them will quickly lose the isk to do so. Tanks should be powerful, but also costly if destroyed.

Nerfing tanks, especially nerfing their modules, nerfs LAVs and drop ships too. You can't make a vehicle vs AV thread and talk only about tanks. Thats like making a infantry balance thread and not talking about heavies and light suits.

As i have said in other posts... the balance was fine in 1.6, i ran a proto AV fit and alone could only manage to hold back a proto fit tank proto V proto = balance. My proto AV fit V militia tank = no contest. Proto fit tank V militia or advanced AV = no contest.... now we're back to 1.3 tank indestructability ie regression

ITT: People that don't remember the Segaris and Surya. These tanks are pushovers compared to those.

This could have easily been fixed by adding GÇ£LockingGÇ¥, GÇ£LockGÇ¥, and GÇ£Missiles InboundGÇ¥ warnings for vehicles. Could have been an icon on the HUD that starts blinking Yellow when someone is attempting to lock you, starts blinking Orange when you are locked, and starts blinking Red when missals have been fired. Accompany it will an audio warning. Then rendering issues would have not mattered when it came to the missals.

Now the fact that the infantry did not render would still have been a problem, but at least you would have had warning before the first missal hit.

I never said i was OP... once again please READ what i wrote, it was BALANCED proto V proto

The solution seems self-evident, tanks are certainly OP and militia tanks provide too much bang for the buck.

MLT tanks:
Increase price
OR
Decrease available CPU/PG or health to bring it in line with cost

AV v HAVE combat balance
Swarms: Increase swarm distance to 250m
Return back 10% of damage
Forge Guns: Repeal charge time increase
OR.
Return previous alpha damage

Grenades: I think these are ok for their purpose - a quick way to
Blitz out some damage

I think the problem is not tanks, but the number of them that can be deployed at once. AV dealing with two tanks is manageable. 5-6, not so much.

The price increase makes spamming then much less profitable, and those who do spam them will quickly lose the isk to do so. Tanks should be powerful, but also costly if destroyed.

Nerfing tanks, especially nerfing their modules, nerfs LAVs and drop ships too. You can't make a vehicle vs AV thread and talk only about tanks. Thats like making a infantry balance thread and not talking about heavies and light suits.

1) Starter fits are made from militia items.
2) Militia HAVs do indeed have less slots, less CPU, and less PG.
3) Militia vehicle items do take more cpu and pg than their standard counterparts.
4) You've never once bothered to look at militia vehicles or items before posting in a thread about militia vehicles and items.

and that's what you're talking out of... just because you don't agree with what i'm saying doesn't make you right or give you the qualifications to say what is or isn't objective in this conversation, as for you saying swarms were easy mode in 1.6, please enlighten me as to why everyone wasn't running around with them, as they seem to do with every other weapon that is labelled OP?

o7 boss im going to try and answer some of your questions as diplomatically as I can

1) I would expect the price to be raised slightly as well as the difference between a full mlt fit and std fit currently runs between 200-325k more for a fully fit std hav .

2) hrm you and I both know that swarms and forges still work wonders when used by skilled operatives , the whole nerf mlt hav thing im not so sure about it any more.

3) std tanks , lavs dropships crus turrets and most likely any infantry that gets between me and my next target. ohh and supply depos we cant forget them

4) come on if the 3 dedicated av specialists kill one of the 3 will they stop after its dead or kill the next one like we would do.

5) pending on how good the pilot is but I can shut off every vehicle on the map if I get my glass cannon out quick enough , that being said I rely heavily on support from av as it is a glass cannon.

6) forge guns , think of that poor sod bishop that rolled past us the other day or that hellstorm tanker we chased back to his redline.

7) I fell like im talikg to columbo " just one more thing " lol

now one of the biggest things about av balance and vehicle balance is any suit can equip light av wepons so say you specialise in assault suits with an ar once you max that out you only then have to skill a pittense of sp into swarms to reach proto level in comparison to havs , this was a major gripe for many tankers as wel as cost and strength of av pre 1.7 now tanks are in a good place but av isent as good as it once was.

I have also noticed something tonight while playing after reading a post on he forum , and I have killed many swarmers and forgers with my rail and missiles who have been standing still out in the open whare they think I cant see them ( this pattern developed because of poor tank rendering) and they literally just stand still and still spam swarms while my shield hardners are up tactics are need to kill a tank simple on that one.

ill also leave this link here have a wee look and see what you think

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1628134#post1628134

??????????? are you pissed that an actual tanker came on here to answer your questions or are you just trolling?

Do you really believe it takes 3 people to take out a current STD fit tank? If so you're either bad with AV or the people who you play with that are AV are bad.

It is the militia tanks and they are the problem.
Most real tankers, even ones that run blasters never go past 15 kills in a game. It really is the militia scrubs that call out four militia tanks all game and go 30/5. They're the problem and if you fail to see that, your opinion is just as biased as anyone else.
I really only kill infantry if:

• They have AV
• They have an LAV
• They're hacking my objective
• They're in a proto suit.

Otherwise I'm on the field as AV. I remove other tanks/dropships/LAVs.

What I'm getting at is that I don't tank to kill infantry. I'll do what I have to so our team can win but I don't go out seeking kills.

I'm a veteran tanker?
I just have a 8 mill SP alt that uses vehicles. You really seem pretty butt-hurt about tanks though.

For me it's all about the force multiplier.

If a singular Mercenary can jump in a tank and his force multiplier is increased by a factor of 10 and the only limit on that is a max vehicle count in the map? it will never ever balance out.. it doesn't make sense.

Only way to keep that kind of force multiplier on the battlefield and balance it is to half it... by NEEDING two people per tank to get the same results. Tanks at Advanced and Prototype levels will then make a lot more sense when we get around to them as well.