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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
274
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
A simple question. I've heard the argument that a sica costs 57k isk and your proto suit costs 200k+, which isn't fair.
Didn't tankers say the same thing when tanks were upwards of a million isk, and yall said that wasn't a valid excuse?
Be honest, yall know who you are that did this. |
Shokhann Echo
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
125
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
this one has a point.
Void Echo's Alt
Back-up Profile
Back on main 12-20-2013
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
1509
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shokhann Echo wrote:this one has a point.
not sure what that would be since the reference he is making resulted in tanks getting a ton cheaper and better. |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
1350
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Infantry also:
Are not immune to small arms. Only have one weapon able to feasibly combat one another. Not able to speed across the map at LAV speeds. Do not have enough health to take multiple FG shots. Do not have modules that decrease damage taken. Do not have the ability to one-shot across the map (and no, you cannot say FGs do this since one shotting has only ever happened to weak vehicles and infantry).
(Corrected grammar.)
SWEET MOTHER OF TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ, YOU SOUND LIKE A MAJESTIC F*ING EAGLE! DO YOU SING?!
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
543
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
I never once said the price cut was the problem. Proto AV being needed to take down Militia tanks is the problem. Anything above that is a fools errand without RE spam. I also believe those complaining about the price decrease wasn't counting on their AV getting nerfed without its price going down as well.
But since you have brought it up, Tanks have turned from an expensive DPS multiplier to flat-out outclassing Infantry in gameplay AND ISK sustainability. The main(and pretty much only) reason there is to not to use tanks right now is kamikaze jeeps, since it nets them a slight ISK gain while awarding them 150+ SP. |
Text Grant
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
260
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dropping 7 RE's on the tank will kill any tank. Trust me :) You can even die before you set them off. Although it is outrageous that this is what it takes now unless you have a tank |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
327
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good.
Once the FORGE was with me.
Now i belong to the Dark side...My Forge is called Imperial Scrambler.
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ALT2 acc
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
24
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:I never once said the price cut was the problem. Proto AV being needed to take down Militia tanks is the problem. Anything above that is a fools errand without RE spam. I also believe those complaining about the price decrease wasn't counting on their AV getting nerfed without its price going down as well.
But since you have brought it up, Tanks have turned from an expensive DPS multiplier to flat-out outclassing Infantry in gameplay AND ISK sustainability. The main(and pretty much only) reason there is to not to use tanks right now is kamikaze jeeps, since it nets them a slight ISK gain while awarding them 150+ SP. if you lose a STD tank, you lose a match payout |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
652
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!
My logi-code.
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
380
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Posted - 2013.12.14 07:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:Dropping 7 RE's on the tank will kill any tank. Trust me :) You can even die before you set them off. Although it is outrageous that this is what it takes now unless you have a tank
How do you get 7 REs on 1 tank? Either you got some friends or a hell of a lot of time to just there. And you MUST run a logi suit with 3 sets of REs or 1 or 2 sets with Nanohive.
It's actually cool when tanks don't notice my scout and I get REs planted. If I could carry just ONE more. |
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
To clarify, I was directing this only at the AV players who dismissed tankers objection about price differences and are now using the same excuse to complain about the new update. I know not all AV did it, but I couldn't miss adding insult to injury on those particular people. :)
That being said, I made another thread about limiting the amount of HAVs per side so that tanks can require more than one player to kill, but not making it so AV has no chance to coordinate.
A heavy vehicle should not be wrecked by a light weapon, except when that light weapon is deployed in numbers. But at the same time, there shouldn't be more than I'd say 2 tanks per side on the field at the same time. Maybe even one tank. |
Shokhann Echo
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
125
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good.
its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it
Void Echo's Alt
Back-up Profile
Back on main 12-20-2013
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
279
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 08:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it Tanks should take 2-3 people to kill, yes. The issue is, with the amount of tanks that deploy each side (just saw 6 a few minutes ago) unless the entire team dedicates to AV, they will lose. I proposed making a limit to the amount of HAVs per side. Like only one per side, maybe two tops. Tanks get to keep our ridiculously awesome tanks, and AV doesn't have a tanker swarm to deal with. |
Text Grant
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
263
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Text Grant wrote:Dropping 7 RE's on the tank will kill any tank. Trust me :) You can even die before you set them off. Although it is outrageous that this is what it takes now unless you have a tank How do you get 7 REs on 1 tank ? Either you got some friends or a hell of a lot of time to just there. And you MUST run a logi suit with 3 sets of REs or 1 or 2 sets with Nanohive. It's actually cool when tanks don't notice my scout and I get REs planted. If I could carry just ONE more. Lvl 1 re and Lvl 3 re. The easiest way to do it is to put them on the front of a BPO jeep actually... |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1357
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it
It's manned by one person, so it should be kill-able by one person. Stop being a douche. If a HAV comes across a standard infantryman, he should kill it. If an AV comes across a HAV, he should kill it. If a Infantry comes across an AV, he should kill it. It is a simple concept.
Shields as Weapons
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
382
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Text Grant wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Text Grant wrote:Dropping 7 RE's on the tank will kill any tank. Trust me :) You can even die before you set them off. Although it is outrageous that this is what it takes now unless you have a tank How do you get 7 REs on 1 tank ? Either you got some friends or a hell of a lot of time to just there. And you MUST run a logi suit with 3 sets of REs or 1 or 2 sets with Nanohive. It's actually cool when tanks don't notice my scout and I get REs planted. If I could carry just ONE more. Lvl 1 re and Lvl 3 re. The easiest way to do it is to put them on the front of a BPO jeep actually...
You're talking jihad jeeps. While great fun, they are really stupid. Please, dear lord, CCP do not balance based around jihad jeeps. Strapping explosives to a tank needs to be a thing but remotes will need a buff to do it.
Want to know the best way to Jihad? Throw the REs on as logi, run to the depot and switch to bpo suit or starter suit. Then take off. Completely free then. Best to do this near your redline as that depot probably won't get destroyed. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
280
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it Tanks should take 2-3 people to kill, yes. The issue is, with the amount of tanks that deploy each side (just saw 6 a few minutes ago) unless the entire team dedicates to AV, they will lose. I proposed making a limit to the amount of HAVs per side. Like only one per side, maybe two tops. Tanks get to keep our ridiculously awesome tanks, and AV doesn't have a tanker swarm to deal with. heavy vehicles should be soloed by heavy weapons only, and take multiple light weapons to down. but, there shouldn't be 5-6 tanks per ide on the field at a time. limit the amount deployable to one. |
Thorn Badblood
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
112
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
It takes 1 guy to kill a tank, want proof? Here you go...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3xsMqHu56g
What do you think the price difference is between the weapon and the tank?
D2D. A Non-Prophet Organization
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CommanderBolt
Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State
423
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
You guys should really try using the installations on the map. As a tanker I can honestly say that Rail gun installations have been a pain in my ass.
Think, use different tactics. |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it It's manned by one person, so it should be kill-able by one person. Stop being a douche. If a HAV comes across a standard infantryman, he should kill it. If an AV comes across a HAV, he should kill it. If a Infantry comes across an AV, he should kill it. It is a simple concept.
don't try tu argue with scrub tankers. they simply can't understand this concept.
Once the FORGE was with me.
Now i belong to the Dark side...My Forge is called Imperial Scrambler.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
282
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it It's manned by one person, so it should be kill-able by one person. Stop being a douche. If a HAV comes across a standard infantryman, he should kill it. If an AV comes across a HAV, he should kill it. If a Infantry comes across an AV, he should kill it. It is a simple concept. AV, however, stand a chance against infantry, since they carry a sidearm, and you can kill indfantry with the forge gun. Therefore, the model breaks apart. It shouldn't be a predecided thing. Just like a shotgun shouldn't always win a cqc battle. IT should only give you the advantage. |
Our Deepest Regret
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
370
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kasote Denzara wrote:Infantry also:
Are not immune to small arms. Only have one weapon able to feasibly combat one another. Not able to speed across the map at LAV speeds. Do not have enough health to take multiple FG shots. Do not have modules that decrease damage taken. Do not have the ability to one-shot across the map (and no, you cannot say FGs do this since one shotting has only ever happened to weak vehicles and infantry).
(Corrected grammar.)
Infantry are immune to swarm launchers. Tankers are limited to their specific turrets. Infantry can equip two weapons + grenades. Tanks are nowhere near as fast as LAVs. Infantry can tap dance across missile and rail gun barrages. Infantry can render tanks redundant by climbing a set of stairs. Tanks cannot one-shot across the map. (Rendering)
(My grammar was awesome) |
T8R Raid
BIG BAD W0LVES
69
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:I never once said the price cut was the problem. Proto AV being needed to take down Militia tanks is the problem. Anything above that is a fools errand without RE spam. I also believe those complaining about the price decrease wasn't counting on their AV getting nerfed without its price going down as well.
But since you have brought it up, Tanks have turned from an expensive DPS multiplier to flat-out outclassing Infantry in gameplay AND ISK sustainability. The main(and pretty much only) reason there is to not to use tanks right now is kamikaze jeeps, since it nets them a slight ISK gain while awarding them 150+ SP.
wait wait wait, a TANK is OUTCLASSING infantry? OUTRAGEOUS! I've baited tanks into minefields instead of jihad jeeping, and stuck my doodle out to be squished while some forge gunners laid in wait, you're mad cause you cant brainlessly kill tanks. if they glowing then hold your fire and wait em out. we've had a few days of shock and awe, time for business. if you dont have proto av, then protect your team mates who do. if you cant protect your team mates av, then go attack their teams av, so your teams MLT tanks can zerg the real tanker into his redline. sleep on it and come up with something new.
This is the way the world ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
282
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:It takes 1 guy to kill a tank, want proof? Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3xsMqHu56gWhat do you think the price difference is between the weapon and the tank? The M136 AT4 is the Army's primary light anti-tank weapon Unit Replacement Cost: US $1,480.64 M1A2 Abrams with prototype TUSK equipment US $6.21 million Note the vehicle they are using is not a tank. it is lightly armored, and even the hit on the moving vehicle didn't destroy it. |
Tch Tch
Red Shirts Away Team
76
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
I would like to see an escalation value in the game.
Maximum of x tanks.
You can only field 2 more HAVs then your opponent has fielded at one time in the game.
So one side could field none the entire game and the other side is limited to two. If one side fields a tank the other could field three, of course at that point the first could now field a maximum of five.
Both sides have the same maximum which is two more then the others side.
This should naturally limit smaller 6 vs 6 games and also give a tactical gameplay where one team may decide to forgo all tanks to limit the other teams impact.
It would mean that their should be a more balanced number on the field. And there are always consequences for escalating the conflict as your opponent gets to open up their stable of tanks too.
Turrent - the sound a tankers pants makes when he finds out the four swarm militia doing squats around him aren't AFK.
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Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
328
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:CUT.
Try a Side Arm in PC, let's see your score. Then you can come out and Say such thing. I was a Ground forger till Beta, I know what am i saying.
As long as Tank are moved by ONE people, ONE people must could take him down. Not only they nerf the dmg of the Forge, They also nerd the charge timer, so now it took more time to shoot a tank.
Unite this thing to a Close time window of Module deactiv and ABSURD speed.
Shake. And then you have your recipe to imbalance
Once the FORGE was with me.
Now i belong to the Dark side...My Forge is called Imperial Scrambler.
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tch Tch wrote:I would like to see an escalation value in the game.
Maximum of x tanks.
You can only field 2 more HAVs then your opponent has fielded at one time in the game.
So one side could field none the entire game and the other side is limited to two. If one side fields a tank the other could field three, of course at that point the first could now field a maximum of five.
Both sides have the same maximum which is two more then the others side.
This should naturally limit smaller 6 vs 6 games and also give a tactical gameplay where one team may decide to forgo all tanks to limit the other teams impact.
It would mean that their should be a more balanced number on the field. And there are always consequences for escalating the conflict as your opponent gets to open up their stable of tanks too. I think simply limiting both sides to two tanks (maybe even one) would be easier to implement, but a good idea nonetheless. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CUT. Try a Side Arm in PC, let's see your score. Then you can come out and Say such thing. I was a Ground forger till Beta, I know what am i saying. As long as Tank are moved by ONE people, ONE people must could take him down. Not only they nerf the dmg of the Forge, They also nerd the charge timer, so now it tools more time to shoot a tank. Unite this thing to a Close time window of Module deactiv and ABSURD speed. Shake. And then you have your recipe to imbalance Then according to your model, AV should not have sidearms, tanks shouldn't be allowed to shoot them, and infantry already can't hurt tanks. That's true rock paper scissors.
And that model is asinine.
A heavy vehicle should take a heavy weapon to solo. Light weapons should solo light vehicles, and take multiple light weapons to down heavy vehicles. Limiting the amount of HAVs that can deploy would give light weapons the ability to use said numbers to overpower a tank without worrying about a tanker swarm. In turn, tanks rely on infantry to keep the enemy AV at bay. |
Our Deepest Regret
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
370
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
My last thought on AV in this current build, is that it's still very effective. Been playing from morning to evening. I've been chased around, tricked into mined corridors, remote detonated, jihad jeeped, forge gunned down, and forced to kiss the tip of a more than a few rail gun installations.
I've run tanks for a few months now. I know when I'm being forced to deal with a smart AV-er who knows his business, and when I'm dealing with derpy mc-swaaaaaarm-go-boom. Presently for this build, AV is skill-capped, so that the best and most resourceful are being rewarded for their skill, not unlike how last build, tanking was only profitable for the truly elite.
It won't stay that way. I'm not losing any sleep over it, in the meanwhile. |
Nonoriri ko
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
I converted to Tank514hism. Play with free starter fit, call in millitia soma and run around killing things. Sometimes I will die but not often. Great way to earn mass ISK.
p.s. I am a tank scrub. Zero skills into any vehicle skills. |
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