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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
274
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Posted - 2013.12.14 06:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
A simple question. I've heard the argument that a sica costs 57k isk and your proto suit costs 200k+, which isn't fair.
Didn't tankers say the same thing when tanks were upwards of a million isk, and yall said that wasn't a valid excuse?
Be honest, yall know who you are that did this. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
To clarify, I was directing this only at the AV players who dismissed tankers objection about price differences and are now using the same excuse to complain about the new update. I know not all AV did it, but I couldn't miss adding insult to injury on those particular people. :)
That being said, I made another thread about limiting the amount of HAVs per side so that tanks can require more than one player to kill, but not making it so AV has no chance to coordinate.
A heavy vehicle should not be wrecked by a light weapon, except when that light weapon is deployed in numbers. But at the same time, there shouldn't be more than I'd say 2 tanks per side on the field at the same time. Maybe even one tank. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2013.12.14 08:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it Tanks should take 2-3 people to kill, yes. The issue is, with the amount of tanks that deploy each side (just saw 6 a few minutes ago) unless the entire team dedicates to AV, they will lose. I proposed making a limit to the amount of HAVs per side. Like only one per side, maybe two tops. Tanks get to keep our ridiculously awesome tanks, and AV doesn't have a tanker swarm to deal with. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
280
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Posted - 2013.12.14 10:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it Tanks should take 2-3 people to kill, yes. The issue is, with the amount of tanks that deploy each side (just saw 6 a few minutes ago) unless the entire team dedicates to AV, they will lose. I proposed making a limit to the amount of HAVs per side. Like only one per side, maybe two tops. Tanks get to keep our ridiculously awesome tanks, and AV doesn't have a tanker swarm to deal with. heavy vehicles should be soloed by heavy weapons only, and take multiple light weapons to down. but, there shouldn't be 5-6 tanks per ide on the field at a time. limit the amount deployable to one. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
282
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Shokhann Echo wrote:Jastad wrote:The cost is not the problem, the problem is the balance.
2/3 guy needed to take down 1 guys with a Tank is not good. its a ******* vehicle dumbass, in the future too... infantry cannot be god, you cannot expect to be superscrub every time you feel like it It's manned by one person, so it should be kill-able by one person. Stop being a douche. If a HAV comes across a standard infantryman, he should kill it. If an AV comes across a HAV, he should kill it. If a Infantry comes across an AV, he should kill it. It is a simple concept. AV, however, stand a chance against infantry, since they carry a sidearm, and you can kill indfantry with the forge gun. Therefore, the model breaks apart. It shouldn't be a predecided thing. Just like a shotgun shouldn't always win a cqc battle. IT should only give you the advantage. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
282
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thorn Badblood wrote:It takes 1 guy to kill a tank, want proof? Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3xsMqHu56gWhat do you think the price difference is between the weapon and the tank? The M136 AT4 is the Army's primary light anti-tank weapon Unit Replacement Cost: US $1,480.64 M1A2 Abrams with prototype TUSK equipment US $6.21 million Note the vehicle they are using is not a tank. it is lightly armored, and even the hit on the moving vehicle didn't destroy it. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tch Tch wrote:I would like to see an escalation value in the game.
Maximum of x tanks.
You can only field 2 more HAVs then your opponent has fielded at one time in the game.
So one side could field none the entire game and the other side is limited to two. If one side fields a tank the other could field three, of course at that point the first could now field a maximum of five.
Both sides have the same maximum which is two more then the others side.
This should naturally limit smaller 6 vs 6 games and also give a tactical gameplay where one team may decide to forgo all tanks to limit the other teams impact.
It would mean that their should be a more balanced number on the field. And there are always consequences for escalating the conflict as your opponent gets to open up their stable of tanks too. I think simply limiting both sides to two tanks (maybe even one) would be easier to implement, but a good idea nonetheless. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CUT. Try a Side Arm in PC, let's see your score. Then you can come out and Say such thing. I was a Ground forger till Beta, I know what am i saying. As long as Tank are moved by ONE people, ONE people must could take him down. Not only they nerf the dmg of the Forge, They also nerd the charge timer, so now it tools more time to shoot a tank. Unite this thing to a Close time window of Module deactiv and ABSURD speed. Shake. And then you have your recipe to imbalance Then according to your model, AV should not have sidearms, tanks shouldn't be allowed to shoot them, and infantry already can't hurt tanks. That's true rock paper scissors.
And that model is asinine.
A heavy vehicle should take a heavy weapon to solo. Light weapons should solo light vehicles, and take multiple light weapons to down heavy vehicles. Limiting the amount of HAVs that can deploy would give light weapons the ability to use said numbers to overpower a tank without worrying about a tanker swarm. In turn, tanks rely on infantry to keep the enemy AV at bay. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
283
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Posted - 2013.12.14 11:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote: Then according to your model, AV should not have sidearms, tanks shouldn't be allowed to shoot them, and infantry already can't hurt tanks. That's true rock paper scissors.
And that model is asinine.
A heavy vehicle should take a heavy weapon to solo. Light weapons should solo light vehicles, and take multiple light weapons to down heavy vehicles. Limiting the amount of HAVs that can deploy would give light weapons the ability to use said numbers to overpower a tank without worrying about a tanker swarm. In turn, tanks rely on infantry to keep the enemy AV at bay. Again, Iet's see if you understand, don't have MUCH hope in but let's give a try since you are a scrub tanker. NO ONE is asking for AV to be sure Kill. But tanks need some CONS. They simply don't have cons right now. 'Cause they only limit, the Cooldown time, is negated by their ABSURD speed. CCP Remnant said they hotfixed the militia overdrive bug, and are looking at turning speed on HAVs down some. I suggested limiting HAV to one or two, because then their power is limited by a lack of mobility and tank backup.
Hopefully you get that. Being scrub AV and all. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
290
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote: Tanks shouldnt be able to be soloed by ANY player. That being said miltia tanks need to either be dropped or changed so you need to skill into them still. Its getting pretty bad when an actual tanker player cannot bring in a tank due to team quota.
Nothing short of an orbital bombardment or another tank should be able to solo a tank. Well...maybe a mad bomber logi if they're sneaky enough...
Why not? You have provided no arguement. Just one fools opinion. so here is my response. One person should be able to solo a tank. Think much? That sounds fair. There is only ONE person manning the HAV, so it should only take ONE person to remove him from play. Simple arithmetic. Then the tanker has no motivation to play, since his tank can be canceled out by a single suit. He would be served just as well using a regular suit, and for cheaper. |
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Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
293
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Slag Emberforge wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote: Tanks shouldnt be able to be soloed by ANY player. That being said miltia tanks need to either be dropped or changed so you need to skill into them still. Its getting pretty bad when an actual tanker player cannot bring in a tank due to team quota.
Nothing short of an orbital bombardment or another tank should be able to solo a tank. Well...maybe a mad bomber logi if they're sneaky enough...
Why not? You have provided no arguement. Just one fools opinion. so here is my response. One person should be able to solo a tank. Think much? That sounds fair. There is only ONE person manning the HAV, so it should only take ONE person to remove him from play. Simple arithmetic. Then the tanker has no motivation to play, since his tank can be canceled out by a single suit. He would be served just as well using a regular suit, and for cheaper. This couldn't be more wrong. The tanker should be able to be taken out by an equally or better skilled and armed AV infantry, This is not the same as stating its equivalent to a drop suit. Tankers encounter zero resistance and faceroll AI based infantry, and have the capacity to kill AV and V alike. Meanwhile AV is seriously gimped at AI, giving up all of that power to focus on a support role. That is keeping their team alive by destroying vehicles, and stopping the literal infantry wrecking ball that is a tank. Dropping extra ISK should never give you the ability skip teamwork. That's the point of this game. If you require teamwork to be destroyed you should require team work to be operated. I would not be against .asking tanks a team vehicle. They need to be as powerful as they are, thats what makes them such a good force multiplier. I think tanks taking g more than one person to operate effectively is a good tradeoff for their power.
I also envision that a light weapon should kill a light vehicle easily, and a heavy weapon should kill a heavy vehicle easily, and it should take multiple light weapons working in tandem to down a heavy vehicle. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
293
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:A simple question. I've heard the argument that a sica costs 57k isk and your proto suit costs 200k+, which isn't fair. Didn't tankers say the same thing when tanks were upwards of a million isk, and yall said that wasn't a valid excuse? Be honest, yall know who you are that did this. tank =/= dropsuit. By mere logic a tanks should always be more expensive than a dropsuit. Plus i was in favor of a Tank ISK cost reduction. But not this much.Their performance does not match their cost at all. Then my comment was not directed at you. There were some AV players, I don't care enough to memorize their names, who said tanks being more expensive than AV was no excuse to buff them, and are using the same logic to get a buff to AV. If you did not vouch this position, then I'm not poking fun at you in particular. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
296
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:A simple question. I've heard the argument that a sica costs 57k isk and your proto suit costs 200k+, which isn't fair. Didn't tankers say the same thing when tanks were upwards of a million isk, and yall said that wasn't a valid excuse? Be honest, yall know who you are that did this. I wasn't one of these people you speak of. but quick question. if it wasn't ok for them, then why is it ok for you? When did I say it was okay for me? |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2013.12.16 07:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm all for HAVs requiring multiple people to man properly. As long as they are as strong as they are now. They are final in a good place. LEt's not change numbers around and go back to how it was in 1.6 and earlier. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
308
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Posted - 2013.12.16 08:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
I never said, nor will I say, that it is balanced. It is just so funny to see AV players trying to use the same logic they discounted pre-1.7. |
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