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Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1016	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:47:00 - [1] - Quote Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 849	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:58:00 - [2] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions.
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. 305	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote I agree, lost new players in my corp because of this very problem. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 83	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:09:00 - [4] - Quote Yea I think its a problem as well. Sad thing is people just don't care. Our squads will often pull back to our home base just to avoid a red-lining match. It's no fun for us and its no fun for the newbs on the other side. There is nothing wrong with letting em have a few objectives and running your ADV or Militia gear. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1481	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote CCP SlowPoke wrote: Now that the player base has been cut in half or better, we'll hurry to act like we give a **** for the sake of the remaining hopefuls. Cheeseburgers.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1160	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:17:00 - [6] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. I find this hard to believe No matter, unfortunately there isn't much that can be done about the phenomenon, people have earnt their gear and have a right to use it. But those people are rarely the problem, its the megacorps, who have more money than sense. CCP have already done a matchmaking rework so don't count on a solution from them till 1.9 at the absolute earliest. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1027	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:40:00 - [7] - Quote I'm all for killing new players, but not hunting them to extinction. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Zero Notion Wraith Company 429	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:45:00 - [8] - Quote I've resorted to logging into a match, waiting around to watch the killfeed for a bit. If I see a spam of Duvolles and Imperials (which is typically the most prevalent), I leave. I know that behind those weapons is probably a protostomper. If I check who I'm fighting and see A.E, O.H, Hellstorm or any Nayan (Nyain?!) Squad, I leave. Nothing against any of the players and really nothing against Protostomping. Protostomping is a symptom of a larger problem. Protogear should be utilized since it is available. PC is awful when the lag hits, why would they want to play? Every player is looking for some kind of subjective enjoyment and for a lot of them, this is all that is left because winning, even when its awfully one sided and not as enjoyable as a real fight, is better than being stomped. Maybe FW will change things to some degree but with the limitations of the Loyalty Store (no player trade), it's kind of up in the air if it will be worth spending your own Proto gear in a match with team kill on.
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 144	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:45:00 - [9] - Quote Yep The not Logic Bomb! -->We need better comms!<--
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 1201	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:46:00 - [10] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I don't know what the real problem is, full ADV fitting, still going 20 - 0. Do I really have to scale down to STD? I mean, up to now the vast majority of player base should at least have a full ADV fit.... . __ `/.)\ spamming these = you have no opinion in anything Dust 514 related` \ __ /

RedZer0 MK1 The Generals General Tso's Alliance 124	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:47:00 - [11] - Quote I would say that there are more players like us (hate proto stomping) than on the other side. We just need to let CPP know it is a major major issue.
Criteria Shipment Baynaer Space Command 475	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:48:00 - [12] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I've resorted to logging into a match, waiting around to watch the killfeed for a bit. If I see a spam of Duvolles and Imperials (which is typically the most prevalent), I leave. I know that behind those weapons is probably a protostomper. If I check who I'm fighting and see A.E, O.H, Hellstorm or any Nayan (Nyain?!) Squad, I leave. Nothing against any of the players and really nothing against Protostomping. Protostomping is a symptom of a larger problem. Protogear should be utilized since it is available. PC is awful when the lag hits, why would they want to play? Every player is looking for some kind of subjective enjoyment and for a lot of them, this is all that is left because winning, even when its awfully one sided and not as enjoyable as a real fight, is better than being stomped. Maybe FW will change things to some degree but with the limitations of the Loyalty Store (no player trade), it's kind of up in the air if it will be worth spending your own Proto gear in a match with team kill on. The protostomping crap will never end. It'll only stop if they take it off the market, WHICH THEY WON'T. Not until PVE comes into play, which I will dedicate my attention to Goodbye, world! (püú-ÿ+í-ÿ-é)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1077	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:50:00 - [13] - Quote I don't think that separating players in to battles based upon their gear is the right way to approach this problem at all. Not only do we have too small of a player base to make this approach viable but we would also loose the "hard core" game play that all CCP games are famous for. I, even when I was new way back in the E3 build, relish the fact that I will get to play with the best players in the game as well as the worst. Sure I might get my butt kicked but that butt kicking usually teaches me something about game play and/or tactics. I am thinking that building in rewards proportional to the difficulty of the kill would make getting regularly smacked down easier to handle for new players. If WP (and by extension SP and ISK) rewards were much larger for killing an a full proto player using crappy gear then even new players who got just a kill or two could feel successful. This kind of sea change in the WP/SP/ISK earning philosophy would shift the games emphasis from who can kill the most to who can make the most efficient use of their gear to earn SP/WP/ISK. Any change of this sort would of course be even more of a support to new players if kills and assists were rewarded points based upon the percentage of damage done to a target by a given player. I've been arguing for this for a long time but have never seen any movement from CCP on this front. Just my 2 isk. Fun > Realism
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 109	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:00:00 - [14] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Word. This is what drove me to take a 2 month break. I think a high priority needs to be placed on the creation of Meta-level matches, where only gear up to a certain Meta level is allowed. This would go a long way to solving the matchmaking problem, and make matches more competitive. Redline matches (probably the majority since I've been playing) are not fun, whether you are on the winning or losing side. I'm not sure how other mercs feel, but I don't remember the big wins or big losses. My favorite moments of Dust have been the close fights, where both sides played their hardest, even if not their best.. I'd rather play 100 knock-out, drag-out matches and narrowly lose, than 100 winning redline matches any day of the week. The kind of matches that after they are done, whether you win or lost, you feel good about your performance, and you respect your opponents. I'd like to see CPP start with Mil or STD gear-only pubs, and go from there. running Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| Theme Music
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 782	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:05:00 - [15] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ***. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Join FW and troll ppl with FF and TK. It's the new new player experience. Fck this game and its lolmechanics. No way to have fun unless you are drinking and trolling the vets. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 946	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:18:00 - [16] - Quote Have you ever talked to the CEOs of the protostomp squads? I have. They don't care they are ruining the game. they go into pub(mainly ambush) for the strict purpose of finding lambs to slaughter. You don't see these guys in FW(and you won't especially after 1.7), DOM, or Skirmish. They flock to where to noobs are just to stroke their ego. You talk to the CEOs about it and they'll tell you "they can find another game to play" or "I want them to quit." They are ruining the game on PURPOSE. PC lag has nothing to do with it. They stack in pubs to manipulate the system. And back out when they face real/equal competition. Go ahead, talk to kujo about it. Ask Cubs why they used to do what they did.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2089	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:42:00 - [17] - Quote I'll just keep putting this idea out there... Proto stompers won't move on to more challenging matches unless incentivized. Public matches need to be split between high and low sec with no restriction on who or what gear participates. Once you hit 5 mil SP you should start receiving gradually reduced rewards of ISK and SP until you hit 10 mil SP when you receive no reward. After 5 mil SP matches should not influence your KDR. The only reason to continue participating in high sec is to help train friends or to grief in some manner. This retains the theme of New Eden but removes the rewards for killing rookies. Rewards that can be very significant. You want to earn anything then move on to low sec matches. // Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:46:00 - [18] - Quote DON'T GET ME WRONG. I don't think the proto players have done a single thing wrong, not one thing wrong. but if you ask any player in this game that something should be done about proto stomping I don't think anyone would disagree. the thing is it's the devs fault for not supplying modes and methods for new players to be introduced to the game free of proto stomps, and more then that it's their fault for not supplying game modes for the proto's to stretch their legs in.
Silas Swakhammer GamersForChrist Orion Empire 274	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:47:00 - [19] - Quote Gentlemen, this is a reason why they introduced aim assist. They wanted to keep the game open to non-elites. Good job, community, on being schizophrenic. Pineapples on pizza.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1145	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:51:00 - [20] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this **. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions. No there doesn't need to be gear restriction. First of all there aren't even enough players for this, second it's still a sandbox game. The only thing we need is better matchmaking and CCP already said they are aware matchmaking doesn't really do what it should do atm. PvE would be a great solution though. They can tier that in terms of difficulty and give newbies a way to earn SP and so on without being bothered by other players who are more experienced and have btter gear. It's an entry point. A way to train and learn some basics of the game before going into PvP. In my opinion this is what they should have started with. PvE first, PvP later on. Because they started with PvP they are now in a viscious cycle trying to balance all of that stuff which results in PvE getting delayed more and more. And newbies don't care about balancing. Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:** Join FW and troll ppl with FF and TK. It's the new new player experience. F*ck this game and its lolmechanics. No way to have fun unless you are drinking and trolling the vets. Sorry. I'm too mature to do something childish like this. And I thought the CoD community was chilidsh. Also you know what will happen: Protos will take FW seriously and get to standing 10. Then they can do some Teamkills and they just kick your griefing ass. And I would be extremely ok with it.

echo47 Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:27:00 - [21] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions. Its a perfect first impression wether he continues to play the game will show what he is made of. If he quits this FPS is not for him. No matter what he will alway be tens of thousands of skill points behind. No amount of affirmative action from ccp will change this. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1437	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:44:00 - [22] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. the 2nd 3rd and 4th impressions are just as bad.... never again will i spend money on this broken game....
Justice Prevails 132	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:57:00 - [23] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Word. This is what drove me to take a 2 month break. I think a high priority needs to be placed on the creation of Meta-level matches, where only gear up to a certain Meta level is allowed. This would go a long way to solving the matchmaking problem, and make matches more competitive. Redline matches (probably the majority since I've been playing) are not fun, whether you are on the winning or losing side. I'm not sure how other mercs feel, but I don't remember the big wins or big losses. My favorite moments of Dust have been the close fights, where both sides played their hardest, even if not their best.. I'd rather play 100 knock-out, drag-out matches and narrowly lose, than 100 winning redline matches any day of the week. The kind of matches that after they are done, whether you win or lost, you feel good about your performance, and you respect your opponents. I'd like to see CPP start with Mil or STD gear-only pubs, and go from there. I was in only one match tonight. It was an awsome fight between a bunch of randoms and came down to the final seconds. Stopped playing immediately because I wanted to savor that awesome feeling. Knew, if I played one more, the feeling would be erased. Still have a smile on my face 3 hrs later. Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 54	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:02:00 - [24] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. 2 seconds of head-shots with a militia assault rifle at 5m range can kill any suit in the game at the moment. Sounds like he missed. As much as I dislike being protostomped, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to use the gear they've earned. I agree in that more should be done for new player experience. If you've ever played eve you know that New Eden isn't for the faint of heart,
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:11:00 - [25] - Quote PvE FTW. I'd love to see a Std-only game mode too, but the beauty of PvE as a solution to this is that is simultaneously gives noobs a safe haven and gives everyone else new content to break the monotony. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 103	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:20:00 - [26] - Quote proto gear may not be the real problem, i think the academy needs to be much longer, i did a test with a new character, i was inly in academy for 2 matches starter stuff, third match i was out of academy and was sent on proto stomper match, the enemy dropped proto tanks, how a new player is supposed to deal with a proto tank in the third match of dust of his live?, if the new player is skilled on fps he will graduate from academy on 2-3 matches, its very possible that the new player doesnt even know about FG, he will use the standard AV fit, in his third match he does not have the needed skill points for a decent AV fit nor the knowledge, i found the later to be the most disturbing, there are no videos nor tutorials or even recommendations about weapons or dropsuits, they just drop you to be murdered over and over, so if a player at least had the knowledge of the guns vehicles or dropsuits in the game from the get go, the amount of new players that would stay will be higher and the mistakes on the SP tree could be lowered and frankly the survival rate of the new mercs would increase exponentially So how does a new player with no knowledge of dust deals on his third match against proto tanks?, he doenst, he dies, but hardly can blame people for using they hard won gear Me and my inner demons stopped fighting......We are on the same side now...
element0mega Elements Of Death Elite 54	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:21:00 - [27] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Need a proper PVE (bot mode or something) for scrubs...
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 102	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:23:00 - [28] - Quote Still thing its the engagement ranges not the actual gear. Make the ar's optimal what seems like a cqc to medium range fight ( whats a base like 50m across?) and you'd have better engagements. People could maneuver to take groups out more efficiently and not have to worry about dying in three hits. even my more beefy suit will die in three hits. It may only have 179 armor and 80 shields but its still taking that in 2-3 shots from 80 meters out without fail each and every time. And this is with enough time to have seen the person and react...meaning full out sprint toward cover before he...well there was his three bullets...so much for cover. Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 111	Posted - 2013.12.06 07:52:00 - [29] - Quote Justice Prevails wrote: Knew, if I played one more, the feeling would be erased. Still have a smile on my face 3 hrs later. I feel you, I've done the same damn thing. Some of my most memorable matches, I've lost, and I didn't care because they were such good games -- they never made me want to ragequit, like a solid hour of protostomping does. I'm beginning to think that fixing matchmaking, while a worthwhile effort, is simply not possible, and the reason is built into the game itself -- somebody, somewhere is always gonna have more SP than you, which translates to better fittings. The only way to combat that is to put a cap on the kind of gear you can bring into a battle. It doesn't solve the problem completely, since a player with more SP will generally have more SP into core skills, but if a brand new player spends his SP wisely (core skills mostly, and moderately into DS and weaponry), it allows them to be more competitive with a vet while still at a lower level. A new player can then spend more time playing STD matches, until he gets his SP up to level where he can be competitive with ADV gear, and plays at that level until he's skilled enough to go proto if he wants. I'm not advocating for any removal of game modes btw, just the addition of lower levels of play, for the new guys. running Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| Theme Music
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 279	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:07:00 - [30] - Quote I really don't understand people going on about proto suits in pub matches. Progression and getting better gear is part and parcel of the game and to complain because people have played it, earned the SP and have invested it into a good suit baffles me: You have attained powah! But please don't use it! Of course, for the new player experience this is bad and I'm not saying that it's not a ****** experience to start this game and get pimp slapped like that, but that's CCP's fault for failing on the NPE aspect of the game. Academy should last until you have 5 mill SP or something. It just seems like misdirected blame to me.

AWESOME AUTISTIC Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen 3	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:15:00 - [31] - Quote 8213 wrote: Have you ever talked to the CEOs of the protostomp squads? I have. They don't care they are ruining the game. they go into pub(mainly ambush) for the strict purpose of finding lambs to slaughter. You don't see these guys in FW(and you won't especially after 1.7), DOM, or Skirmish. They flock to where to noobs are just to stroke their ego. You talk to the CEOs about it and they'll tell you "they can find another game to play" or "I want them to quit." They are ruining the game on PURPOSE. PC lag has nothing to do with it. They stack in pubs to manipulate the system. And back out when they face real/equal competition. Go ahead, talk to kujo about it. Ask Cubs why they used to do what they did. Which is exactly why they MAKE SURE TO RUN YOU INTO THE GROUND IF YOU MANAGE TO KILLTHEM. I killed a protostomper and next thing I know THE ENTIRE SQUAD isolated me and curbstomped my face in. I specialize in ridiculousness. 'You don't talk to strangers, you shoot them.' Snow LOCKOUT Scout Devotee.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 188	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:20:00 - [32] - Quote I appreciate the difficulty and sorry to hear your friend had such a hard time - hopefully he'll stick around. I think it's quite clear that you cannot offer a new player experience in a PvP environment. It has to be structured, gradual, and the pace has to be controlled, and this can only be done in PvE. Until they get PvE into Dust 514, anything and everything they do to improve the "new player experience" is just a stop-loss solution.
NOAMIzzzzz Pradox One Proficiency V. 66	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:55:00 - [33] - Quote Do i REALLY have to go militia cause my STD is to op? i guess i do...
Akdhar Saif Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2013.12.06 09:33:00 - [34] - Quote I've said it before and I'll say it again, "The Academy" is just a simple fix to a much more difficult problem. You can't simply apply a WP limit on normal matches. There needs to be a much improved new player experience. This means a dedicated Training Grounds and maybe even some PVE content for the same purpose. The Training Grounds should be Gear Limited so people are on an equal footing, it's only when mercs start to improve and actually want to go up against the big guns that they leave the Training Academy.
Elmo Love U 514 Mile High Club 17	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:33:00 - [35] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. LMAO. "Kill em quick" are u mad ur not op anymore Show me the money!
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 2335	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:36:00 - [36] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this **. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. suggestion... just fight for the minmatar in FW. you'll fit right in Common Sense and Logic** are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 931	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:37:00 - [37] - Quote People have difficulty killing proto in std gear?
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1634	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:39:00 - [38] - Quote Proto, or not Proto, that is the question I know how to fix this. Picture yourself playing PVE. The Protobears are the Drones you're fighting. Here's your new gamemode. Yes, it's difficult. Enjoy! Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 2335	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:44:00 - [39] - Quote and the answer to all of it is simple. know where u are playing. Ambush has been the most competitive game mode outside of PC since long before PC was even in the game,. High SP or not, we all need to hit our caps, and those that have been around a long time often choose ambush for a couple reasons. per time, its the fastest SP you can get. you never have to worry about redline affairs or the opposition trolling you by not even trying. as for proto.. been said over and over. if you have it you are more than entitled to use it. Skirmish WAS competitive.. before PC, before the stats broke and didn't record for them. A lot of people enjoy domination, and is often on the more competitive side nowadays. pick your poison. I fully agree the new player experience is not favorable in any way, shape or form. are the players at fault for that? have we not suggested over and over that feeding the new kids on the block to the proto wolves is healthy for the playerbase? Have we not suggested countless ideas how to 'balance' matches? u wanna QQ submit a ticket.. over and over phone a friend.. spam CCP cause its all on them. we who have been around have said everything you are QQing over now, many times over, for months... yet nothing has changed. SORRY something HAS changed.. they've changed the WP #s before u get kicked out of the academy.. so NOW.. if you are a decent FPS gamer... o wait u still only last 1 match in the academy... Common Sense and *Logic* are 2 things you have to forget when posting on these forums.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 141	Posted - 2013.12.06 14:51:00 - [40] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE Extending the academy is an absolute no-brainer. When does the academy stop; 10,000 WP or 2mil SP? That needs to be much higher. 15,000 - 20,000 WP would probably give new folks more time to get acclaimed to Dust. Also, once you have been through the academy with one character on your account you do not get enrolled in the academy on any characters on that same account. This might help prevent people from rolling new characters just to stomp the academy. Matchmaking... I have mixed feelings on that one. I understand the need to retain new players, but at the same time, this is New Eden. New Eden is harsh and unforgiving. Matchmaking feels too much like the developers protecting us from each other and I don't like that. PvE... I'm going to be honest here. PvE is the number 1 feature I want right now. The amount of money I would spend on Dust if it offered PvE is ludicrous. A PvE system would also allow some kind of "Virtual Bootcamp" where new players could face off against AI drones or something. We could also add a primitive firing range-type area to experiment with new weapons. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley

Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1036	Posted - 2013.12.06 23:43:00 - [41] - Quote CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote: and the answer to all of it is simple. know where u are playing. Ambush has been the most competitive game mode outside of PC since long before PC was even in the game,. High SP or not, we all need to hit our caps, and those that have been around a long time often choose ambush for a couple reasons. per time, its the fastest SP you can get. you never have to worry about redline affairs or the opposition trolling you by not even trying. as for proto.. been said over and over. if you have it you are more than entitled to use it. Skirmish WAS competitive.. before PC, before the stats broke and didn't record for them. A lot of people enjoy domination, and is often on the more competitive side nowadays. pick your poison. I fully agree the new player experience is not favorable in any way, shape or form. are the players at fault for that? have we not suggested over and over that feeding the new kids on the block to the proto wolves is healthy for the playerbase? Have we not suggested countless ideas how to 'balance' matches? u wanna QQ submit a ticket.. over and over phone a friend.. spam CCP cause its all on them. we who have been around have said everything you are QQing over now, many times over, for months... yet nothing has changed. SORRY something HAS changed.. they've changed the WP #s before u get kicked out of the academy.. so NOW.. if you are a decent FPS gamer... o wait u still only last 1 match in the academy... Like I said, it's just sad. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1092	Posted - 2013.12.06 23:48:00 - [42] - Quote I like running in squads, but when you have experienced players with great gear it can become to easy. This is one reason I run solo and use Advance or lower gear. Make certain game plays gear restrictive and this will show who has talent and who is using a suit or weapon as a crutch. F* the Snowflake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKd3cdKdak
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 114	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:43:00 - [43] - Quote calvin b wrote: I like running in squads, but when you have experienced players with great gear it can become to easy. This is one reason I run solo and use Advance or lower gear. Make certain game plays gear restrictive and this will show who has talent and who is using a suit or weapon as a crutch. With the upcoming changes to Factional Warfare, I think this would be the perfect time to place a meta-level limit on gear in general pub matches. FW can be an opportunity for all mercs to break out their best stuff and blast each other to chunks, and general pub matches can become more of a place for general scrimmage, using lower level gear. A new player can start in general pubs relatively protected from stomping, free to find what he's interested, develop a playstyle, find a corp, etc, and eventually work his way into FW, where the gloves come off. running Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| Theme Music
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 303	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:45:00 - [44] - Quote we've been saying this for over a year and CCP still doesn't listen or doesn't care. hell they even lowered the amount of WP it takes to leave the academy. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
DiGreatDestroyer Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 41	Posted - 2013.12.07 01:59:00 - [45] - Quote TO OP: Protostomping is always gonna be there mate, seems theres little we can do about it, because WE, the players, are the ones that have to fix this, not CCP. At least thats how i feel 1-We could make a gentlemens agrement, no proto in pubs. 2-We could enforce an agrement: Members of corps that do not comply will get green light to be TK on FW 3-Corps that dont comply will get hunted out of PC. But lets asume that one of my incredibly utopian ideas works: We still have to deal with players wih more skill. And im not talking about SP here. Just cheer skill. One comment really marked me. Someone said on this very forums: (About the new player experience) "You could try to not hunt them like dogs when they are in the redline" That made me realize that since thats what i do, im a stomper myself. Even though i dont use proto, i still make this game a hell to the new players, and i had enjoyed every single moment of it until that post made me realise i was the very thing i despised. So the use of Proto is not the problem. I dont come here with a solution. I come here with two ideas i would like CCP and the players to hear. to make the new player experience better 1- Make reaching corps more easy to new players. Maybe add a screen to aply to a corp (The corp would have to agree to be on that list) after the players graduate from batle academy. Hell, GAC could take care of the spanish guys. 2-PVE. Now, i know, pve is on hold, but we need it so bad CCP. So this is what we can do. Open a new category in the forums where people can give ideas, but we need to have PVE on 2.1 Thats the deadline. We better get working, right?? TO OPERATIVE 1171: Interesting tag/firm you got there mate Why would you want to destroy this game mate? What are you going to win? IGÇÖm not gonna lie here, this game has flaws, but it has something that no other game has, that feeling that battles have at least some meaning (Winning more resources, unlocking new gear) and OMG, the potential of this game is so big, thatGÇÖs why I want this game to succeed. We need to start a new movement, just not one to destroy dust, but one to make the people understand that the game is still in beta, and that we have to help make it better, so it reaches its full potential. So this is a plead to all doomsters and trolls out there: People donGÇÖt kill this game, if you keep your ways, Dust will have no future, and Im telling you, you donGÇÖt want to do that, because the future of this game is worth protecting. Please believe in me and in this game. You wonGÇÖt regret it. TO AIKUCHI: As much as I would love to say dust is a sandbox game, its not. ItGÇÖs a lobby shoter. I hope it gets to be a sandbox though. And you are right, PVE would be a great solution to make a better player experience
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1290	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:14:00 - [46] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I don't think that separating players in to battles based upon their gear is the right way to approach this problem at all. Not only do we have too small of a player base to make this approach viable but we would also loose the "hard core" game play that all CCP games are famous for. I, even when I was new way back in the E3 build, relish the fact that I will get to play with the best players in the game as well as the worst. Sure I might get my butt kicked but that butt kicking usually teaches me something about game play and/or tactics. I am thinking that building in rewards proportional to the difficulty of the kill would make getting regularly smacked down easier to handle for new players. If WP (and by extension SP and ISK) rewards were much larger for killing an a full proto player using crappy gear then even new players who got just a kill or two could feel successful. This kind of sea change in the WP/SP/ISK earning philosophy would shift the games emphasis from who can kill the most to who can make the most efficient use of their gear to earn SP/WP/ISK. Any change of this sort would of course be even more of a support to new players if kills and assists were rewarded points based upon the percentage of damage done to a target by a given player. I've been arguing for this for a long time but have never seen any movement from CCP on this front. Just my 2 isk. Segregation by the total meta value of a suit is the only way to fix this problem. If the all the meta numbers of the suit and fit added together is equal to or less than the SDC status meta then you can enter, anything higher is not allowed. Sec stat 1 systems would have a total meta of 2. 2 meta points would allow all starter and militia suit and gear into the battle. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1476138#post1476138 Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 824	Posted - 2013.12.07 02:24:00 - [47] - Quote The true ingrained solution to this problem is tiericide, which blatantly needs to happen to suit classes. If there's one core concept that's wrong with Dust 514, it's the concept that an advanced suit is exactly the same in every way to a basic one, except it's BETTER. It's not different, just better. PC Coordinator for RISE of LEGION Have a pony
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 641	Posted - 2013.12.07 04:01:00 - [48] - Quote Leither Yiltron wrote: The true ingrained solution to this problem is tiericide, which blatantly needs to happen to suit classes. If there's one core concept that's wrong with Dust 514, it's the concept that an advanced suit is exactly the same in every way to a basic one, except it's BETTER. It's not different, just better. I just talked myself through this and there really is only one logical and easy to implement solution, which tbh I didn't really think was the only or best solution until now. Tiericide sounds good, but let's be honest, that's not something that's gonna happen soon, and maybe shouldn't until all the racial suits are out. Of course, you can say the same thing about my preferred solution, PvE. Gonna take a while. Ideally Id love to see a std only battle category, but segregating by gear could be hard without a much higher player count. Nope, only robust matchmaking can fix this in a reasonable period of time. Noobs will still get killed, but if you make it so that you NEVER, under any circumstance, allow two squads to be on one team and none on the other in a pub match, at least the battle is somewhat even and the noobs don't get redlined. Furthermore, take the average SP of each squad and split them evenly: 3 squads queue in, then the squad with the highest average lifetime SP gets put on one side, the other 2 on the other side. If 4 squads drop in, #1 and #4 on one side, 2 and 3 on the other, like tournament seeds. Matchmaking really is hopelessly broken! Think about all the times you are stuck on a team of randoms while AE and Nyain San are on the same side. They are q-syncing, you say? Maybe, maybe not. An actual matchmaking system shouldn't let them. EVER. (FW would obviously be an exception since you pick a side) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 234	Posted - 2013.12.07 04:16:00 - [49] - Quote The problem with Dust isn't protostomping. Protostomping has its place. Just as nullsec briefing has its place in Eve. However, Eve has highsec, where they are protected from griefers by CONCORD, and can do their thing in relative security, wardecs notwithstanding. Dust has no where for new players to go and gain so and isk outside of PvP matches. Imagine if they removed security status from Eve. The game would die within a week. Give new players PvE, and let protostompers protostomp all over the pub matches and what-have-you. Let new players join these matches. That's their prerogative. But the consequence is they will get reamed by full proto squads. CCP games pride themselveson having player choices have consequences. But players need to have some choices first.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2013.12.07 04:50:00 - [50] - Quote I think this is where established and veteran corps need to step in. We need r corparate contracts for other than for PC. Corps could host new players via invite or as try outs. This could be corp vs corp or internal. Two squads, squad leaders high sp vets rest ofthe squad new guys. Show them the ropes and how it's done, limit gear and allow new players to scrimage. The players other than squad leaders have to bein the academy and make the acedemy longer. I think this would be a benefit it is just two days a week, due to player numbers. It would give new players some successes and if willing they could learn somethings from vets. The isk payout for matches and rules/gear restriction could be determined by corps hosting the scrimages. Just an idea. I think corp contracts for someting other than PC and a longer academy stay will solve some of these issues. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.

OmegaKelevra Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:08:00 - [51] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. This is exactly why i will be excepting generous donations from those whom can afford it after the 10th to grief known offending proto's every chance i cross there paths. If possible to tk in Pub games i will wait to land on a proto bearing team and lets see what happens next with a gleam in my eye and a trusty "ol double barrel in my hand" party pooping milita shotgun in hand. if not i will find said player and or squad in FW where I'll do the above. New players whom read this and are currently getting grief-ed send me name of player and corp to add to a wish list my "Pro Bono" work :)) Serious Clients for business purposes i will gladly go after almost any corp for the right amount of isk. Isk talks and you know the rest. Gettin my Dirty Merc Dirt Work on!
EXCUTIONR BRUTAL DUST University Ivy League 16	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:12:00 - [52] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions. I been playin 6 months and didn't spec into proto yet and I'm proto stomped 85% of the time
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1041	Posted - 2013.12.07 05:24:00 - [53] - Quote OmegaKelevra wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. This is exactly why i will be excepting generous donations from those whom can afford it after the 10th to grief known offending proto's every chance i cross there paths. If possible to tk in Pub games i will wait to land on a proto bearing team and lets see what happens next with a gleam in my eye and a trusty "ol double barrel in my hand" party pooping milita shotgun in hand. if not i will find said player and or squad in FW where I'll do the above. New players whom read this and are currently getting grief-ed send me name of player and corp to add to a wish list my "Pro Bono" work :)) Serious Clients for business purposes i will gladly go after almost any corp for the right amount of isk. Isk talks and you know the rest. Gettin my Dirty Merc Dirt Work on! I think proto stomping is the biggest turnoff for most players to this game, but making FW hell won't solve it and will likely backfire. As it stands now FW 2.0 is the perfect place for the vets with more ISK and SP than they can use to go. As someone who is serious about the prospect of fighting for the federation this is one of the game modes where people are expected to give their all. If you prevent proto wearers from going into fac war without the likelyhood of intentional TKs they will all head back into the pubs and this game will be worse off for it. Don't be part of the problem. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Squagga The State Protectorate 29	Posted - 2014.01.20 07:19:00 - [54] - Quote PvE is probobly the best solution. Plus I think it would be fun for us vets too! Reloading, the silent killer.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Mocking Bird Inc. 624	Posted - 2014.01.20 07:37:00 - [55] - Quote My new year's resolution is not taking bullshit. So here's how i compute: Is there a full proto squad on the other side? y-leave. n-continue Am I myself on the side with the proto squad? y-leave n-continue Are there less than 5 protos in the same squad in the other side? y-kill them all n-play with wacky fits. No longer a shield of Cat Merc.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 371	Posted - 2014.01.20 07:43:00 - [56] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: second it's still a sandbox game. No. It. Is. Not. This is a match-based lobby shooter with hazy, badly designed persistent elements that reward one thing only, the date you created your account. EVE is an example of a sandbox game for sake of reference.
Teilka Darkmist 13	Posted - 2014.01.20 07:51:00 - [57] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Much as I love CCP and their products, this is a problem they constantly have. The new player experience in eve, whilst much better than how I hear it was at launch or even 7 years ago when I started, is still pretty terrible 10 years on. It's something they know about and are anxious to fix, they just haven't worked out how yet in a way that isn't 'put new players in their own shard for a certain length of time' which is counter to the philosophy of a single server. It's even harder I would imagine in a game where the professions don't include industry or trading in which you can make it so you're at limited risk, but not none at all. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
G Torq ALTA B2O 379	Posted - 2014.01.20 07:52:00 - [58] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this **. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but part of the solution to this is scarcity! Team Fairy DUST** HTTP://Dust.Thang.DK/ - DUST514 Fitting Tool based on DUST SDE
Teilka Darkmist 13	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:00:00 - [59] - Quote G Torq wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this **. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but part of the solution to this is scarcity**! Almost, but not quite. The solution to protostomping is making the market be driven by the players, like in eve. When something becomes popular in eve, the prices get driven up by the people selling them. But in dust currently, the prices are constant. Find a way to make players responsible for the supply and pricing of items (this could be another great way to integrate dust and eve more closely) and this problem will get resolved. The downside to this is having a pretty complex market to buy from 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Toyboi The Rainbow Effect 170	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:37:00 - [60] - Quote 8213 wrote: Have you ever talked to the CEOs of the protostomp squads? I have. They don't care they are ruining the game. they go into pub(mainly ambush) for the strict purpose of finding lambs to slaughter. You don't see these guys in FW(and you won't especially after 1.7), DOM, or Skirmish. They flock to where to noobs are just to stroke their ego. You talk to the CEOs about it and they'll tell you "they can find another game to play" or "I want them to quit." They are ruining the game on PURPOSE. PC lag has nothing to do with it. They stack in pubs to manipulate the system. And back out when they face real/equal competition. Go ahead, talk to kujo about it. Ask Cubs why they used to do what they did. my eyes start to bleed when i read bull crap like this! i get hate mail when i play fw telling me to play for another side, i get hate mail when i play any gamemode and its all he same yadayadayada. so yes we dont like people who whine about ohhh nooooos he killed me in a protosuit just because im too cheap to bring one out myself HTFU. Yes the npe is crap you shouldent be let out in the general population before you have 7-8 mil sp and you should be able to grind that whitout cap.. just my 50 cents back to you 8213 im sorry but you pull words out of your arse if you are so angry quit the game or stop polluting the forums with your nonsens! If you try to land people on the moon and something go's wrong people die..

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 29	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:44:00 - [61] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I've resorted to logging into a match, waiting around to watch the killfeed for a bit. If I see a spam of Duvolles and Imperials (which is typically the most prevalent), I leave. I know that behind those weapons is probably a protostomper. If I check who I'm fighting and see A.E, O.H, Hellstorm or any Nayan (Nyain?!) Squad, I leave. Nothing against any of the players and really nothing against Protostomping. Protostomping is a symptom of a larger problem. Protogear should be utilized since it is available. PC is awful when the lag hits, why would they want to play? Every player is looking for some kind of subjective enjoyment and for a lot of them, this is all that is left because winning, even when its awfully one sided and not as enjoyable as a real fight, is better than being stomped. Maybe FW will change things to some degree but with the limitations of the Loyalty Store (no player trade), it's kind of up in the air if it will be worth spending your own Proto gear in a match with team kill on. There would be alot less stomps if fw payed alot more and if fw required 100k or 200k wp then we are set
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2674	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:57:00 - [62] - Quote You want to stop protostomps? Get on team comms have at least three squads with preferably 5 members for each Communicate vital intel and shut off mic when background noise can become distracting Concentrate fire on your targets Don't revive in the middle of a firefight, eliminate reds or provide cover Increase battlefield awareness and a "third eye" sense. Don't let your blueberry die because you want 50 WPs for a kill, eliminate the threat Stop dropping uplinks in Ambush if you are not prepared to defend them Use cover, hills and walls to your advantage. Grip em, don't be found on open turf running across Are people doing these things and others in pubs? No, the majority of folks don't. That's the problem with pubs. While I have suggested that eliminating protos from matches could help, I think it would be a better idea if the Ambush community would just employ teamwork to beat the protos. I would love to see that happen. But people are trained to play Team Deathmatch in a solo fashion. That's just the truth. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 29	Posted - 2014.01.20 08:59:00 - [63] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: You want to stop protostomps? Get on team comms have at least three squads with preferably 5 members for each Communicate vital intel and shut off mic when background noise can become distracting Concentrate fire on your targets Don't revive in the middle of a firefight, eliminate reds or provide cover Increase battlefield awareness and a "third eye" sense. Don't let your blueberry die because you want 50 WPs for a kill, eliminate the threat Stop dropping uplinks in Ambush if you are not prepared to defend them Use cover, hills and walls to your advantage. Grip em, don't be found on open turf running across Are people doing these things and others in pubs? No, the majority of folks don't. That's the problem with pubs. While I have suggested that eliminating protos from matches could help, I think it would be a better idea if the Ambush community would just employ teamwork to beat the protos. I would love to see that happen. But people are trained to play Team Deathmatch in a solo fashion. That's just the truth. Kinda hard to do when you get 3 shotted
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 2674	Posted - 2014.01.20 09:02:00 - [64] - Quote LOL teamwork is only existent in corporations that are serious about war in New Eden. The random bluberries don't give a damn about teamwork. They just pick assault class, equip a needle, and just look for dead bodies to revive because they get 60 WPs for it. CCP really needs to change that. Make it 25 WPs. 60 WPs is way too much. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 156	Posted - 2014.01.20 09:11:00 - [65] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Put him in my squad and he will be fine you know what happens when some scrub shoots one of are new players with a Duvolle. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Teilka Darkmist 13	Posted - 2014.01.20 09:57:00 - [66] - Quote Limiting entry into a match by tier of your gear won't work. What it will do is have everyone have a militia suit as their 'favourite' and the first thing they do in a match is capture the nearest suppy depot and switch to their proto suits. Not only is that problem not solved, but it could concievably make it harder for newer players to find a match. The solution is, as I suggested before,a player driven market. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
Vulcanus Lightbringer Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 186	Posted - 2014.01.20 11:57:00 - [67] - Quote The obvious solution to this is tiericide, but that won't happen for a long time, if ever, and neither will PvE. The short-term solution is to have a meta-restriction on public matches. If you try to spawn with a fitting or switch to one at a depot that exceeds the limit you get a "SECURITY LEVEL EXCEEDED"-message. It's not an amazing solution but it is presumably the one that takes the least amount of work. In the long-term though, PvE, tiericide and a player-driven market are all better ways to deal with this.
Teilka Darkmist 14	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:39:00 - [68] - Quote Meta restriction will guarantee ragequit. People will, quite rightly, say there's no point spending SP to be able to use higher level gear if they aren't going to be able to use it in matches. I'll be quite honest and say that I'm not exactly sure what tiericide is. I've seen and heard the term here, on the eve forums and on podcasts and in blogs but every time someone uses it, they assume their audience knows what it is. Pve isn't an answer to protostomping, if they make it lucrative enough in isk and sp for it to be an answer, that will create a, fairly large, portion of dust players who go purely pve. Eve is the perfect example of that. Pve should indeed be part of the game, but I think more as a training area for newer players and to try out new weapons, fits and tactics for individuals, squads and corporations. A player driven market could theoretically happen in the next expansion. The basis is already there, in eve. It would probably have to be a bit of a hybrid at first as eve indy types learn how to make a profit with dust equipment but the ccp seeded items could eventually be phased back. Kind of like how skill books and the loyalty point store works in eve. Add player trading for dust mercs so that we can make isk by selling loot were not going to use and the market will dictate how expensive an item is so a natural scarcity will happen. Or that's how I see it anyway. 'You can only post every 5 minutes because your account is less than 2 days old' - This gets old VERY quickly.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4370	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:49:00 - [69] - Quote i find myself so glad i started playing this game right after the server wipe when we moved over to tranquility. i was able to get into this game without running face first into proto gear all the time. Lv 4 forum warrior Bringer of Bacon Knight of AMV's
Nestil Seraphim Auxiliaries 101	Posted - 2014.01.20 12:50:00 - [70] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. i havnt run proto in ages... and i do still fine in my adv scout suit.... i dont even use proto weapons (well all my proto weapons i skilled into are sidearms anyways) and even then, since they dont fit on my suits i dont use them.... well except my proto knives for the shinobi event... that was an exception. maybe i'll burn through some of my proto gear (like my mini light frames or the ishi assault SMGs) but of course only if i meet some proto tryhards. i dont need to grind some noobs to feel myself better i can only receive enjoyment if i can kill some skilled players in their best gear.

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Covert Intervention 4076	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:00:00 - [71] - Quote No matter how much proto there is on the field or lack thereof one side is always, 90% of the time, going to get raped because at least one side is using teamwork while the other side runs around like a chicken with its head cut off. That's primarily the issue I'm seeing in pub matches.
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 200	Posted - 2014.01.20 14:08:00 - [72] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: LOL teamwork is only existent in corporations that are serious about war in New Eden. The random bluberries don't give a damn about teamwork. They just pick assault class, equip a needle, and just look for dead bodies to revive because they get 60 WPs for it. CCP really needs to change that. Make it 25 WPs. 60 WPs is way too much. Or just limit it to logis. You sound butthurt that players get more WP for helping allies than killing enemies. Scaling WP would help MLT 10 points 50 for advanced revive up to 65 for proto. Sexy jutsu Time to jaaam!
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 179	Posted - 2014.01.21 01:13:00 - [73] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: No matter how much proto there is on the field or lack thereof one side is always, 90% of the time, going to get raped because at least one side is using teamwork while the other side runs around like a chicken with its head cut off. That's primarily the issue I'm seeing in pub matches. This is 100% true, and I experienced it firsthand today. I spent a lot of today playing on a logi alt with 8 mil SP, lone wolfing and just screwing around to try and hit cap. I know, I should know better, but I wasn't feeling very social, and didn't feel like squadding up. After a string of defeats, all due to no teamwork and nobody squadded up, I eventually got fed up and started a public squad for Doms only. My intent was to keep it very low key, and not be a hardass about following sl orders and such... in fact, I pretty much didn't care what anybody in the squad was doing -- I generate a lot of WP as a logi, and wanted a few extra guys to help me generate some OBs. Mercs started trickling in after every match or so, and after a while, I was running a mix of vets and noobs of different skill levels, and a beautiful thing happened: we began to gel as a squad. We started gaining victories, simply because someone experienced was not so much giving orders, but calling out what's happening on the battlefield, and what we should probably do about it. One of the last matches we played, we were able to generate 3 OBs, and I went 38-4 with 3300 WP. My best game ever, since I started playing a year ago, and all with mercs I had never played with before -- simply because of some very loose teamwork. I still think meta-level matches are the way to go, to improve the piranha-invested waters that is the current NPE experience, but you have a very valid point. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 555	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:13:00 - [74] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: LOL teamwork is only existent in corporations that are serious about war in New Eden. The random bluberries don't give a damn about teamwork. They just pick assault class, equip a needle, and just look for dead bodies to revive because they get 60 WPs for it. CCP really needs to change that. Make it 25 WPs. 60 WPs is way too much. And why do they do this? Because when they look and see two squads on the opposing team that they know are running proto cause they have met up with them a lot, that's what they do. Or they all grab a sniper rifle or sit in the mcc cause they all know, we all know who the tryhard squads are. And when that happens it really sucks for the four or five players on that team who actually don't give up at the start of match and at least try. I have seen many experienced players do this as well cause they are sick of the proto squads, every day, same guys, same corps. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 486	Posted - 2014.01.21 13:26:00 - [75] - Quote Many matches are proto on proto. The player count is just too small. So it ends up 10 proto vs. 10 proto and 6 newer guys as bystanders. I had 6 or so games like this yesterday. CCP I had a lot of very fun games. No doubt it can go different and go badly. But the pool of players limits this...and newer players in FW are just asking for it. That is where heavy competition thrives and the ability to Q sync is available. As a rule of thumb proto stomping gets done more often in FW with Q syncs. Honestly I only have 2 suits, 1 because of knife event, that are miltia...all other 25ish are version of proto. They are used and often in heavy competition in PC, FW and the occasional tough game in pubs. My isk is plenty and when I run militia I usual end up OHK sniped or 3 vs 1 protoed... so running proto and "training" with it make sense. True newer players will suffer when we cross paths.
Onesimus Tarsus 891	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:43:00 - [76] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: No matter how much proto there is on the field or lack thereof one side is always, 90% of the time, going to get raped because at least one side is using teamwork while the other side runs around like a chicken with its head cut off. That's primarily the issue I'm seeing in pub matches. It's hard to develop tactics when you're getting shoved through a nuclear blender as soon as the red chevron appears, and the clock is always ticking. I don't date magnets, but it's difficult to deny the attraction.


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