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Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1016	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:47:00 - [1] - Quote Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 849	Posted - 2013.12.05 22:58:00 - [2] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions.
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. 305	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote I agree, lost new players in my corp because of this very problem. CEO Invictus Maneo~ "I remain unvanquished"
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 83	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:09:00 - [4] - Quote Yea I think its a problem as well. Sad thing is people just don't care. Our squads will often pull back to our home base just to avoid a red-lining match. It's no fun for us and its no fun for the newbs on the other side. There is nothing wrong with letting em have a few objectives and running your ADV or Militia gear. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1481	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote CCP SlowPoke wrote: Now that the player base has been cut in half or better, we'll hurry to act like we give a **** for the sake of the remaining hopefuls. Cheeseburgers.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1160	Posted - 2013.12.05 23:17:00 - [6] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. I find this hard to believe No matter, unfortunately there isn't much that can be done about the phenomenon, people have earnt their gear and have a right to use it. But those people are rarely the problem, its the megacorps, who have more money than sense. CCP have already done a matchmaking rework so don't count on a solution from them till 1.9 at the absolute earliest. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1027	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:40:00 - [7] - Quote I'm all for killing new players, but not hunting them to extinction. The Ellecon's come from a long line of Gallente. Tarn chose Peace. Tallen chose war. SoonGäó514
Zero Notion Wraith Company 429	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:45:00 - [8] - Quote I've resorted to logging into a match, waiting around to watch the killfeed for a bit. If I see a spam of Duvolles and Imperials (which is typically the most prevalent), I leave. I know that behind those weapons is probably a protostomper. If I check who I'm fighting and see A.E, O.H, Hellstorm or any Nayan (Nyain?!) Squad, I leave. Nothing against any of the players and really nothing against Protostomping. Protostomping is a symptom of a larger problem. Protogear should be utilized since it is available. PC is awful when the lag hits, why would they want to play? Every player is looking for some kind of subjective enjoyment and for a lot of them, this is all that is left because winning, even when its awfully one sided and not as enjoyable as a real fight, is better than being stomped. Maybe FW will change things to some degree but with the limitations of the Loyalty Store (no player trade), it's kind of up in the air if it will be worth spending your own Proto gear in a match with team kill on.
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 144	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:45:00 - [9] - Quote Yep The not Logic Bomb! -->We need better comms!<--
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 1201	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:46:00 - [10] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I don't know what the real problem is, full ADV fitting, still going 20 - 0. Do I really have to scale down to STD? I mean, up to now the vast majority of player base should at least have a full ADV fit.... . __ `/.)\ spamming these = you have no opinion in anything Dust 514 related` \ __ /

RedZer0 MK1 The Generals General Tso's Alliance 124	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:47:00 - [11] - Quote I would say that there are more players like us (hate proto stomping) than on the other side. We just need to let CPP know it is a major major issue.
Criteria Shipment Baynaer Space Command 475	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:48:00 - [12] - Quote Zero Notion wrote: I've resorted to logging into a match, waiting around to watch the killfeed for a bit. If I see a spam of Duvolles and Imperials (which is typically the most prevalent), I leave. I know that behind those weapons is probably a protostomper. If I check who I'm fighting and see A.E, O.H, Hellstorm or any Nayan (Nyain?!) Squad, I leave. Nothing against any of the players and really nothing against Protostomping. Protostomping is a symptom of a larger problem. Protogear should be utilized since it is available. PC is awful when the lag hits, why would they want to play? Every player is looking for some kind of subjective enjoyment and for a lot of them, this is all that is left because winning, even when its awfully one sided and not as enjoyable as a real fight, is better than being stomped. Maybe FW will change things to some degree but with the limitations of the Loyalty Store (no player trade), it's kind of up in the air if it will be worth spending your own Proto gear in a match with team kill on. The protostomping crap will never end. It'll only stop if they take it off the market, WHICH THEY WON'T. Not until PVE comes into play, which I will dedicate my attention to Goodbye, world! (püú-ÿ+í-ÿ-é)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1077	Posted - 2013.12.06 02:50:00 - [13] - Quote I don't think that separating players in to battles based upon their gear is the right way to approach this problem at all. Not only do we have too small of a player base to make this approach viable but we would also loose the "hard core" game play that all CCP games are famous for. I, even when I was new way back in the E3 build, relish the fact that I will get to play with the best players in the game as well as the worst. Sure I might get my butt kicked but that butt kicking usually teaches me something about game play and/or tactics. I am thinking that building in rewards proportional to the difficulty of the kill would make getting regularly smacked down easier to handle for new players. If WP (and by extension SP and ISK) rewards were much larger for killing an a full proto player using crappy gear then even new players who got just a kill or two could feel successful. This kind of sea change in the WP/SP/ISK earning philosophy would shift the games emphasis from who can kill the most to who can make the most efficient use of their gear to earn SP/WP/ISK. Any change of this sort would of course be even more of a support to new players if kills and assists were rewarded points based upon the percentage of damage done to a target by a given player. I've been arguing for this for a long time but have never seen any movement from CCP on this front. Just my 2 isk. Fun > Realism
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 109	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:00:00 - [14] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Word. This is what drove me to take a 2 month break. I think a high priority needs to be placed on the creation of Meta-level matches, where only gear up to a certain Meta level is allowed. This would go a long way to solving the matchmaking problem, and make matches more competitive. Redline matches (probably the majority since I've been playing) are not fun, whether you are on the winning or losing side. I'm not sure how other mercs feel, but I don't remember the big wins or big losses. My favorite moments of Dust have been the close fights, where both sides played their hardest, even if not their best.. I'd rather play 100 knock-out, drag-out matches and narrowly lose, than 100 winning redline matches any day of the week. The kind of matches that after they are done, whether you win or lost, you feel good about your performance, and you respect your opponents. I'd like to see CPP start with Mil or STD gear-only pubs, and go from there. running Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| Theme Music
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 782	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:05:00 - [15] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ***. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Join FW and troll ppl with FF and TK. It's the new new player experience. Fck this game and its lolmechanics. No way to have fun unless you are drinking and trolling the vets. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 946	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:18:00 - [16] - Quote Have you ever talked to the CEOs of the protostomp squads? I have. They don't care they are ruining the game. they go into pub(mainly ambush) for the strict purpose of finding lambs to slaughter. You don't see these guys in FW(and you won't especially after 1.7), DOM, or Skirmish. They flock to where to noobs are just to stroke their ego. You talk to the CEOs about it and they'll tell you "they can find another game to play" or "I want them to quit." They are ruining the game on PURPOSE. PC lag has nothing to do with it. They stack in pubs to manipulate the system. And back out when they face real/equal competition. Go ahead, talk to kujo about it. Ask Cubs why they used to do what they did.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2089	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:42:00 - [17] - Quote I'll just keep putting this idea out there... Proto stompers won't move on to more challenging matches unless incentivized. Public matches need to be split between high and low sec with no restriction on who or what gear participates. Once you hit 5 mil SP you should start receiving gradually reduced rewards of ISK and SP until you hit 10 mil SP when you receive no reward. After 5 mil SP matches should not influence your KDR. The only reason to continue participating in high sec is to help train friends or to grief in some manner. This retains the theme of New Eden but removes the rewards for killing rookies. Rewards that can be very significant. You want to earn anything then move on to low sec matches. // Adapt or Die // Matari Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // @ReesNoturana
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1431	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:46:00 - [18] - Quote DON'T GET ME WRONG. I don't think the proto players have done a single thing wrong, not one thing wrong. but if you ask any player in this game that something should be done about proto stomping I don't think anyone would disagree. the thing is it's the devs fault for not supplying modes and methods for new players to be introduced to the game free of proto stomps, and more then that it's their fault for not supplying game modes for the proto's to stretch their legs in.
Silas Swakhammer GamersForChrist Orion Empire 274	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:47:00 - [19] - Quote Gentlemen, this is a reason why they introduced aim assist. They wanted to keep the game open to non-elites. Good job, community, on being schizophrenic. Pineapples on pizza.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1145	Posted - 2013.12.06 03:51:00 - [20] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this **. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions. No there doesn't need to be gear restriction. First of all there aren't even enough players for this, second it's still a sandbox game. The only thing we need is better matchmaking and CCP already said they are aware matchmaking doesn't really do what it should do atm. PvE would be a great solution though. They can tier that in terms of difficulty and give newbies a way to earn SP and so on without being bothered by other players who are more experienced and have btter gear. It's an entry point. A way to train and learn some basics of the game before going into PvP. In my opinion this is what they should have started with. PvE first, PvP later on. Because they started with PvP they are now in a viscious cycle trying to balance all of that stuff which results in PvE getting delayed more and more. And newbies don't care about balancing. Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:** Join FW and troll ppl with FF and TK. It's the new new player experience. F*ck this game and its lolmechanics. No way to have fun unless you are drinking and trolling the vets. Sorry. I'm too mature to do something childish like this. And I thought the CoD community was chilidsh. Also you know what will happen: Protos will take FW seriously and get to standing 10. Then they can do some Teamkills and they just kick your griefing ass. And I would be extremely ok with it.

echo47 Minmatar Republic 103	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:27:00 - [21] - Quote Niuvo wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. I feel bad for new players facing these idiots. Their needs to be gear restrictions. Its a perfect first impression wether he continues to play the game will show what he is made of. If he quits this FPS is not for him. No matter what he will alway be tens of thousands of skill points behind. No amount of affirmative action from ccp will change this. I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1437	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:44:00 - [22] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. the 2nd 3rd and 4th impressions are just as bad.... never again will i spend money on this broken game....
Justice Prevails 132	Posted - 2013.12.06 04:57:00 - [23] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: Tallen Ellecon wrote: I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Word. This is what drove me to take a 2 month break. I think a high priority needs to be placed on the creation of Meta-level matches, where only gear up to a certain Meta level is allowed. This would go a long way to solving the matchmaking problem, and make matches more competitive. Redline matches (probably the majority since I've been playing) are not fun, whether you are on the winning or losing side. I'm not sure how other mercs feel, but I don't remember the big wins or big losses. My favorite moments of Dust have been the close fights, where both sides played their hardest, even if not their best.. I'd rather play 100 knock-out, drag-out matches and narrowly lose, than 100 winning redline matches any day of the week. The kind of matches that after they are done, whether you win or lost, you feel good about your performance, and you respect your opponents. I'd like to see CPP start with Mil or STD gear-only pubs, and go from there. I was in only one match tonight. It was an awsome fight between a bunch of randoms and came down to the final seconds. Stopped playing immediately because I wanted to savor that awesome feeling. Knew, if I played one more, the feeling would be erased. Still have a smile on my face 3 hrs later. Great job, team. Head back to the MCC for debriefing and cocktails.
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 54	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:02:00 - [24] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. 2 seconds of head-shots with a militia assault rifle at 5m range can kill any suit in the game at the moment. Sounds like he missed. As much as I dislike being protostomped, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to use the gear they've earned. I agree in that more should be done for new player experience. If you've ever played eve you know that New Eden isn't for the faint of heart,
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:11:00 - [25] - Quote PvE FTW. I'd love to see a Std-only game mode too, but the beauty of PvE as a solution to this is that is simultaneously gives noobs a safe haven and gives everyone else new content to break the monotony. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 103	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:20:00 - [26] - Quote proto gear may not be the real problem, i think the academy needs to be much longer, i did a test with a new character, i was inly in academy for 2 matches starter stuff, third match i was out of academy and was sent on proto stomper match, the enemy dropped proto tanks, how a new player is supposed to deal with a proto tank in the third match of dust of his live?, if the new player is skilled on fps he will graduate from academy on 2-3 matches, its very possible that the new player doesnt even know about FG, he will use the standard AV fit, in his third match he does not have the needed skill points for a decent AV fit nor the knowledge, i found the later to be the most disturbing, there are no videos nor tutorials or even recommendations about weapons or dropsuits, they just drop you to be murdered over and over, so if a player at least had the knowledge of the guns vehicles or dropsuits in the game from the get go, the amount of new players that would stay will be higher and the mistakes on the SP tree could be lowered and frankly the survival rate of the new mercs would increase exponentially So how does a new player with no knowledge of dust deals on his third match against proto tanks?, he doenst, he dies, but hardly can blame people for using they hard won gear Me and my inner demons stopped fighting......We are on the same side now...
element0mega Elements Of Death Elite 54	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:21:00 - [27] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Proto in pubs. I'm running with a new guy and he seems really interested in the game. It's not until we start running against the same try hards wearing full proto and he just can't have any fun. even running with a squad. He was shooting a guy hacking in the back of a head with an AR, the guy took 2 more seconds to hack and insta killed him with his Duvolle. No tactics, no skill, no aiming, just gear, SP and the ability to use it. This isn't for the try hards, no one should tell you what to do, even if you are contributing to the worst part of the new player experience. This is for CCP, I'm a vet and I've had it with this ****. I can't compete against these guys unless I wear proto too and then I just become part of the problem. Extend the academy, fix matchmaking, add PVE, just do something because this game still has the potential to be great it's just rotting in it's own filth ATM, keeping new players out. First impressions are important and this game makes a terrible one. Need a proper PVE (bot mode or something) for scrubs...
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 102	Posted - 2013.12.06 05:23:00 - [28] - Quote Still thing its the engagement ranges not the actual gear. Make the ar's optimal what seems like a cqc to medium range fight ( whats a base like 50m across?) and you'd have better engagements. People could maneuver to take groups out more efficiently and not have to worry about dying in three hits. even my more beefy suit will die in three hits. It may only have 179 armor and 80 shields but its still taking that in 2-3 shots from 80 meters out without fail each and every time. And this is with enough time to have seen the person and react...meaning full out sprint toward cover before he...well there was his three bullets...so much for cover. Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 111	Posted - 2013.12.06 07:52:00 - [29] - Quote Justice Prevails wrote: Knew, if I played one more, the feeling would be erased. Still have a smile on my face 3 hrs later. I feel you, I've done the same damn thing. Some of my most memorable matches, I've lost, and I didn't care because they were such good games -- they never made me want to ragequit, like a solid hour of protostomping does. I'm beginning to think that fixing matchmaking, while a worthwhile effort, is simply not possible, and the reason is built into the game itself -- somebody, somewhere is always gonna have more SP than you, which translates to better fittings. The only way to combat that is to put a cap on the kind of gear you can bring into a battle. It doesn't solve the problem completely, since a player with more SP will generally have more SP into core skills, but if a brand new player spends his SP wisely (core skills mostly, and moderately into DS and weaponry), it allows them to be more competitive with a vet while still at a lower level. A new player can then spend more time playing STD matches, until he gets his SP up to level where he can be competitive with ADV gear, and plays at that level until he's skilled enough to go proto if he wants. I'm not advocating for any removal of game modes btw, just the addition of lower levels of play, for the new guys. running Min Logi \| aka *Punch R0ckgroin* - fatsuit \| Theme Music
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 279	Posted - 2013.12.06 08:07:00 - [30] - Quote I really don't understand people going on about proto suits in pub matches. Progression and getting better gear is part and parcel of the game and to complain because people have played it, earned the SP and have invested it into a good suit baffles me: You have attained powah! But please don't use it! Of course, for the new player experience this is bad and I'm not saying that it's not a ****** experience to start this game and get pimp slapped like that, but that's CCP's fault for failing on the NPE aspect of the game. Academy should last until you have 5 mill SP or something. It just seems like misdirected blame to me.



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