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PANIC! 1.7 Forge Gun Stats Released!!

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Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 253	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:27:00 - [1] - Quote ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8349	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:29:00 - [2] - Quote Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Win ISK / Vids / O7
ratamaq doc Edge Regiment 193	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:29:00 - [3] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 Yea. They are not putting the proto below the old STD stats, so breath easy Heavies.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 140	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:29:00 - [4] - Quote Message from Godin: I'm throwing a party for this. There's going to be hell to pay for those FGers on the 10th
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 376	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:31:00 - [5] - Quote I approve so hard. But honestly, what they needed was a range nerf, not so much damage. (I'm thinking around 200m or so) Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 19; Tanks: 4
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1172	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:38:00 - [6] - Quote So in short Base & Assault -10% Damage +0.5 sec Charge Time Breach -30% Damage No Change to Charge Yeah I feel that's really reasonable, not a sledgehammer nerf like Swarms, but it takes a little bit of the edge off of the Forge. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 259	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:41:00 - [7] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I approve so hard. But honestly, what they needed was a range nerf, not so much damage. (I'm thinking around 200m or so) In all honesty I was expecting something like this as well, something like maybe an effective range of 200m where hitting at their optimal of 300 would mean you'd be hitting with a fraction of the damage you would otherwise. The 10% damage nerf does take a bit of an edge off of them though and they'll still be effective anti-infantry. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1424	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:42:00 - [8] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 I'm more than fine with this. Now for a full respec........ Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 525	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:44:00 - [9] - Quote Everybody to dem Proto Assault Forge Guns. Most viable out of the few viable AV options now in the game.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 252	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:50:00 - [10] - Quote That's not too bad. And as for range, forge guns really need it. You can slap a swarm launcher on a scout (which is my favorite way to use it), but forges are limited to heavies.

The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1285	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:50:00 - [11] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I'm more than fine with this. Now for a full respec........ It begins...repecs ALL around! Told you. Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2732	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:52:00 - [12] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 IF THE RANGE IS THE SAME, im happy..... Support SCOUTS : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124408&find=unread
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5587	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:58:00 - [13] - Quote I can hear the heavy forgers crying right now. The tears will flow like wine in Paris. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 313	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:58:00 - [14] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 IF THE RANGE IS THE SAME, im happy..... It is How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 313	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:59:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I can hear the heavy forgers crying right now. The tears will flow like wine in Paris. Please, one hit to your weakspot with my proto breach and yer done son How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 2732	Posted - 2013.12.05 01:59:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: So in short Base & Assault -10 to 11% Damage +0.5 sec Charge Time Breach -30% Damage No Change to Charge Yeah I feel that's really reasonable, not a sledgehammer nerf like Swarms, but it takes a little bit of the edge off of the Forge. Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I approve so hard. But honestly, what they needed was a range nerf, not so much damage. (I'm thinking around 200m or so) Ehhhhhh No, not with the range reduction to swarms. If you took away forge range, dropships would be completely uncontested except by vehicle railguns which can't shoot at a very steep angle. Now and then, there is someone with brains around.... +1 ArmorLogi514 - So it begins
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1213	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:00:00 - [17] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Yea. They are not putting the proto below the old STD stats, so breath easy Heavies. Take another peek at those AFG stats. But still, I am a Kamehameha wielding fattie, and I approve. ED: Bother. I suppose you're technically correct, since there's no STD AFG. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Leithe Askarii Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 64	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:02:00 - [18] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Damage \| Charge time Base STD - 1320 -> 1200 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 ADV - 1452 -> 1320 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 PRO - 1584 -> 1440 \| 3.5 -> 4.0 Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 Breach STD - 2310 -> 1750 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 ADV - 2541 -> 1925 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 PRO - 2772 -> 2100 \| 6.0 -> 6.0 Officer - 1584 -> 1440 \| 2.1 -> 2.4 IF THE RANGE IS THE SAME, im happy..... \YAY WE AGREE ON SOMETHING AV RELATED!
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4551	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:03:00 - [19] - Quote I just honestly find it funny people want to nerf the heavy class even more. It's like more people calling for a nerf for the FG than people calling for a buff for the HMG. Guess what CCP did...nerf the FG. People should just stop using the class, seriously. Just stop. Stop humiliating the class by roof camping with a FG. Just stop using this turd of a class. "OH YES THEY NERFED TE FG!!!!" now what? heavies need to shoot 1 - 2 more shots to kill a HAV? Big whoop. People just happy to see another nerf to the class. Nerf it more CCP. Make it even more useless. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8350	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:10:00 - [20] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: I just honestly find it funny people want to nerf the heavy class even more. It's like more people calling for a nerf for the FG than people calling for a buff for the HMG. Guess what CCP did...nerf the FG. People should just stop using the class, seriously. Just stop. Stop humiliating the class by roof camping with a FG. Just stop using this turd of a class. "OH YES THEY NERFED TE FG!!!!" now what? heavies need to shoot 1 - 2 more shots to kill a HAV? Big whoop. People just happy to see another nerf to the class. Nerf it more CCP. Make it even more useless. Some of us know how to admit when one of our options is overpowered, even if it IS the other 50% of our options Win ISK / Vids / O7

Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 314	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:23:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: I just honestly find it funny people want to nerf the heavy class even more. It's like more people calling for a nerf for the FG than people calling for a buff for the HMG. Guess what CCP did...nerf the FG. People should just stop using the class, seriously. Just stop. Stop humiliating the class by roof camping with a FG. Just stop using this turd of a class. "OH YES THEY NERFED TE FG!!!!" now what? heavies need to shoot 1 - 2 more shots to kill a HAV? Big whoop. People just happy to see another nerf to the class. Nerf it more CCP. Make it even more useless. Some of us know how to admit when one of our options is overpowered, even if it IS the other 50% of our options In all honesty you cant really blame him CCP has not been kind to us at all... We've had all of two weapons for all of SINCE DUST CAME OUT. Meanwhile mediums get everything... Then when heavies decide that it's better to use an AR than a HMG people start calling them scrubs. Long story short, heavies are not in a good place right now and many are justifiably indignant. How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:23:00 - [22] - Quote I really don't like the number change done to the Breach, the Assault is now more superior than the Breach in every way, with these new numbers why should we even use the Breach when the Assault can do 900 more damage in the same amount of time as the Breach?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2458	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:24:00 - [23] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Yea, the breach was so strong that NOBODY USED IT PERIOD.
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 314	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:27:00 - [24] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Yea, the breach was so strong that NOBODY USED IT PERIOD. The breach is great for one thing popping dropships like over ripe tomatoes How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2459	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:29:00 - [25] - Quote Kind of like every other forge gun can do. Except that can also kill with splash, and not root you in place for a year making you completely worthless the other 99.9% of the game.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:30:00 - [26] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Yea, the breach was so strong that NOBODY USED IT PERIOD. The breach is great for one thing popping dropships like over ripe tomatoes I think you have the Breach confused with the Assault.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 526	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:33:00 - [27] - Quote Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 263	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:38:00 - [28] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:42:00 - [29] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. The overall nerf to the FG is understandable, but the nerf done to the Breach just makes it downright useless, the Assault is two times faster than the Breach giving it a higher damage output while allowing the user movement and more damage in the same amount of time it takes to fire a Breach.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8351	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:43:00 - [30] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Yea, the breach was so strong that NOBODY USED IT PERIOD. The breach is great for one thing popping dropships like over ripe tomatoes I think you have the Breach confused with the Assault. Actually no, the Breach has always frightened me far more than the Assault when I'm flying, particularly if he's with a friend or two with AV. The Breach could almost one shot any dropship, my fit and a couple others can limp away, but when you add just one militia swarm or forge or even plasma cannon if you're close enough, and it's lights out. Most other dropships just pop. I use the IAFG over the BFG because I'm a lonewolf nutjob and I need the mobility. The breach is best in squads, and best at popping dropships. I'm not entirely sure what the breach is for right now, since its alpha damage isn't too powerful. I personally feel somewhere near 2,400 would be good, but there's no way to know until we actually sit down with everything (though you math magicians certainly do a good job) Win ISK / Vids / O7

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 526	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:45:00 - [31] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. I honestly think that's where the Breach needs to be. No splash damage, immovable while Charging, maybe increase the charge time, but make it able to 1 shot all but the bulkiest of vehicles without anything activated. This would give it purpose.
Funkmaster Whale Fatal Absolution 1260	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:47:00 - [32] - Quote Honestly not bad at all. If they didnt change the splash damage I'll still be blasting infantry left n right. The increase charge time kinda sucks but if that's how they think they can balance it them I'm all for it. The mechanic of the gun remains the same, maps remain unchanged, so this doesn't change much except having to slightly adapt to a 2.27s charge vs a 1.87s charge. Let me play you the song of my people!
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 314	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:48:00 - [33] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Kind of like every other forge gun can do. Except that can also kill with splash, and not root you in place for a year making you completely worthless the other 99.9% of the game. The breach catches a lot of flak but the way I see it the BFG is a skill shot weapon. One hit to the weakspot WILL pop a tank where as the AFG could be no kill and allow the HAV to get away. Just my opinion though How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1062	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:49:00 - [34] - Quote Honesty to tell u the truth i would like to see how this would all work with the new vehicle changes hmmm i guess well wait for 1.7 My PS3 is dusty ._. Level 1 Forum Warrior
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1285	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:52:00 - [35] - Quote They should add a tool or mod that pulls heat out of the HMG so it can fire longer or something similar. I don't use the HMGs so I am ignorant to their good/bad areas. I die to them but I am a bad players so my deaths don't count much. Well that and starter/BP fits. I figure if I can't do well in BPO/starters then I can't do well in any other. I haven't used any advanced suits in about a month or more. Point is that we need some modules or tools that change how HMGs work and suits that allow for those to be fitted. There is no where near the diversity of weapons mods that there should be. Range, spread ( both wider and narrower ), rof, heat dispersion, spool up time and extra ammo are all modules that would give heavies something to use to make the weapon more how they like. It should be a perk of being a heavy. Even some type of nanofiber weapon that reduces rof but increases the speed of the suit when being used. Our fat brothers need things and they deserve to have them Dr. Gonzo: I hate to say this, but this place is getting to me. I think I'm getting the Fear.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 265	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:52:00 - [36] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. I honestly think that's where the Breach needs to be. No splash damage, immovable while Charging, maybe increase the charge time, but make it able to 1 shot all but the bulkiest of vehicles without anything activated. This would give it purpose. If you have a weapon capable of 1 shotting a fitted dropship from anywhere in a 300m radius that's costing the user between 700-900k then you set yourself up for a situation that we have now where they're simply no where near worth the price to bring them out on the battlefield. Their current numbers are already 10% higher than the most powerful Large Rail gun you can fit on a Tank so I really can't sympathize with that point of view. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Skihids Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 2487	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:53:00 - [37] - Quote It will be interesting to see if vehicles will be able to get away from the FG for their cooldown.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 85	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:54:00 - [38] - Quote Not horrible... a 25% nerf to DPS (IAFG = 1215DPS now, 925DPS after patch). Still might be a bit much but i prefer the nerf stick over the nerf bat.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:59:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Absoliav wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Sick, I'm definitely happy with that. The breach does seem a tad underwhelming now, but it was definitely too strong before. We'll have to see how it works out, but this looks like a good start Yea, the breach was so strong that NOBODY USED IT PERIOD. The breach is great for one thing popping dropships like over ripe tomatoes I think you have the Breach confused with the Assault. Actually no, the Breach has always frightened me far more than the Assault when I'm flying, particularly if he's with a friend or two with AV. The Breach could almost one shot any dropship, my fit and a couple others can limp away, but when you add just one militia swarm or forge or even plasma cannon if you're close enough, and it's lights out. Most other dropships just pop. I use the IAFG over the BFG because I'm a lonewolf nutjob and I need the mobility. The breach is best in squads, and best at popping dropships. I'm not entirely sure what the breach is for right now, since its alpha damage isn't too powerful. I personally feel somewhere near 2,400 would be good, but there's no way to know until we actually sit down with everything (though you math magicians certainly do a good job) That's the idea of the Breach, but the problem with it is the Assault, before the Proto Assault could do 554 more damage than the Proto Breach in the same time it takes to fire a proto Breach pre 1.7, with the new numbers the Proto Assault now leads with 900 damage over the Breach in the same amount of time with far less risk to the user.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:03:00 - [40] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Not horrible... a 25% nerf to DPS (IAFG = 1215DPS now, 925DPS after patch). Still might be a bit much but i prefer the nerf stick over the nerf bat. Sadly the Breach got the nerf sledgehammer.

Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 527	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:04:00 - [41] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. I honestly think that's where the Breach needs to be. No splash damage, immovable while Charging, maybe increase the charge time, but make it able to 1 shot all but the bulkiest of vehicles without anything activated. This would give it purpose. If you have a weapon capable of 1 shotting a fitted dropship from anywhere in a 300m radius that's costing the user between 700-900k then you set yourself up for a situation that we have now where they're simply no where near worth the price to bring them out on the battlefield. Their current numbers are already 10% higher than the most powerful Large Rail gun you can fit on a Tank so I really can't sympathize with that point of view. Then that's a ISK cost issue which should be irrelevant to gameplay. Being afraid to bring stuff out unless things are nerfed to the point where you have a near guaranteed chance of survival isn't how Dust should be played.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 615	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:06:00 - [42] - Quote What's the range on those BTW? Munch What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
ROMULUS H3X research lab 8	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:06:00 - [43] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Honestly not bad at all. If they didnt change the splash damage I'll still be blasting infantry left n right. The increase charge time kinda sucks but if that's how they think they can balance it them I'm all for it. The mechanic of the gun remains the same, maps remain unchanged, so this doesn't change much except having to slightly adapt to a 2.27s charge vs a 1.87s charge. Ya I'm completly OK with the damage reduction but the charge time change is a punch in the balls, there goes 7 months of internal forge timing down the drain. Just when i was starting to forge people out of mid air...
Vitharr Foebane Blood Money Mercenaries 314	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:07:00 - [44] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: What's the range on those BTW? Munch No range nerf How to make a Heavy Laser: 1.Take laser 2.Make it REALLY BIG 3.Give it to the heavy sobbing quietly in the corner.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 265	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:12:00 - [45] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Which is why I don't understand the Breach nerf. Assault Forge can tag fleeing vehicles and Infantry, still OHKOs Infantry, and 2 shots from an Assault Forge > 1 shot from a Breach Forge. Of course it's not the only useless Breach weapon in the game, most need a serious look. The Breach nerf probably had to do with Dropships more than anything else. Their effective HP without modules on is MUCH lower than it is now and if Forge numbers had stayed the same then they would have been in a pretty precarious position. I honestly think that's where the Breach needs to be. No splash damage, immovable while Charging, maybe increase the charge time, but make it able to 1 shot all but the bulkiest of vehicles without anything activated. This would give it purpose. If you have a weapon capable of 1 shotting a fitted dropship from anywhere in a 300m radius that's costing the user between 700-900k then you set yourself up for a situation that we have now where they're simply no where near worth the price to bring them out on the battlefield. Their current numbers are already 10% higher than the most powerful Large Rail gun you can fit on a Tank so I really can't sympathize with that point of view. Then that's a ISK cost issue which should be irrelevant to gameplay. Being afraid to bring stuff out unless things are nerfed to the point where you have a near guaranteed chance of survival isn't how Dust should be played. It's one issue but certainly not the only one, I'd still argue that, thanks to their range not having changed, the Forge is still in a position where its got a HUGE advantage over anything flying in the air. With Swarms I at least have some sort of warning in which I can hear their approach and respond to their general direction upon being hit. Forges don't leave me that opportunity unless I already have line of sight on their position and am within renderable range of my target. The hit indicator is often misleading and turning on to respond to any one threat or another often doesn't gleam me any relevant information about where your shot may have come from. My only real option, as a pilot, is to run and hope that the hit indicators on my Dropship haven't glitched to the point where I'm running into another shot. There's no sort of compelling or satisfying gameplay there, no back and forth between AV and Vehicle in which I can choose to gauge the threat of my target and decide whether or not to attack or flee; it's find a supply depot, find a nook or cranny, charge up and destroy. You're a tiny glowing dot that may or may not render at any given time that could be literally anywhere on the map without me having a single clue that you've even spawned and you've destroyed me without me having any clue how or where I could have responded differently. Is that the sort of gameplay you want? 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:26:00 - [46] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: It's one issue but certainly not the only one, I'd still argue that, thanks to their range not having changed, the Forge is still in a position where its got a HUGE advantage over anything flying in the air. With Swarms I at least have some sort of warning in which I can hear their approach and respond to their general direction upon being hit. Forges don't leave me that opportunity unless I already have line of sight on their position and am within renderable range of my target. The hit indicator is often misleading and turning on to respond to any one threat or another often doesn't gleam me any relevant information about where your shot may have come from. My only real option, as a pilot, is to run and hope that the hit indicators on my Dropship haven't glitched to the point where I'm running into another shot. There's no sort of compelling or satisfying gameplay there, no back and forth between AV and Vehicle in which I can choose to gauge the threat of my target and decide whether or not to attack or flee; it's find a supply depot, find a nook or cranny, charge up and destroy. You're a tiny glowing dot that may or may not render at any given time that could be literally anywhere on the map without me having a single clue that you've even spawned and you've destroyed me without me having any clue how or where I could have responded differently. Is that the sort of gameplay you want? Understandable as your point maybe, it's still an irrelevant issue, rendering problems are a different issue on their own and cannot be factored in to vehicle/anti-vehicle balance, since it's an outside factor, you can't blame anti-vehicle weapons for a problem that isn't related/caused by them.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 527	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:32:00 - [47] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: It's one issue but certainly not the only one, I'd still argue that, thanks to their range not having changed, the Forge is still in a position where its got a HUGE advantage over anything flying in the air. With Swarms I at least have some sort of warning in which I can hear their approach and respond to their general direction upon being hit. Forges don't leave me that opportunity unless I already have line of sight on their position and am within renderable range of my target. The hit indicator is often misleading and turning on to respond to any one threat or another often doesn't gleam me any relevant information about where your shot may have come from. My only real option, as a pilot, is to run and hope that the hit indicators on my Dropship haven't glitched to the point where I'm running into another shot. There's no sort of compelling or satisfying gameplay there, no back and forth between AV and Vehicle in which I can choose to gauge the threat of my target and decide whether or not to attack or flee; it's find a supply depot, find a nook or cranny, charge up and destroy. You're a tiny glowing dot that may or may not render at any given time that could be literally anywhere on the map without me having a single clue that you've even spawned and you've destroyed me without me having any clue how or where I could have responded differently. Is that the sort of gameplay you want? Yes. The same thing as a proto suit dying to a charged Sniper Rifle, take away Sniper rifles too? Flying makes you auto-vulnerable because everyone can see you, it comes with flying. Make the Breach Forge gun act like the charged Sniper rifle with drawbacks against vehicles, it's not like the Breach user is going anywhere, or doing much of anything other than hitting vehicles which it is designed to do and is super-vulnerable when it does. It was already difficult to kill a decent flyer with swarms before the patch, and trying to kill dropships with swarms competitively will be a joke in 1.7. The fact that you brought up swarms furthers the point of only using things when you feel safe from threats.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1213	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:36:00 - [48] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Not horrible... a 25% nerf to DPS (IAFG = 1215DPS now, 925DPS after patch). Still might be a bit much but i prefer the nerf stick over the nerf bat. Sadly the Breach got the nerf sledgehammer. Sorry, sir, but math. Normal FG got a 25% DPS reduction, AFG and BFG both got a 33% reduction. I disagree that an extra 8% takes something from a stick to a sledgehammer. AFG will still be the one gun to rule them all. (From a distance.) ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 268	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:52:00 - [49] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: It's one issue but certainly not the only one, I'd still argue that, thanks to their range not having changed, the Forge is still in a position where its got a HUGE advantage over anything flying in the air. With Swarms I at least have some sort of warning in which I can hear their approach and respond to their general direction upon being hit. Forges don't leave me that opportunity unless I already have line of sight on their position and am within renderable range of my target. The hit indicator is often misleading and turning on to respond to any one threat or another often doesn't gleam me any relevant information about where your shot may have come from. My only real option, as a pilot, is to run and hope that the hit indicators on my Dropship haven't glitched to the point where I'm running into another shot. There's no sort of compelling or satisfying gameplay there, no back and forth between AV and Vehicle in which I can choose to gauge the threat of my target and decide whether or not to attack or flee; it's find a supply depot, find a nook or cranny, charge up and destroy. You're a tiny glowing dot that may or may not render at any given time that could be literally anywhere on the map without me having a single clue that you've even spawned and you've destroyed me without me having any clue how or where I could have responded differently. Is that the sort of gameplay you want? Yes. The same thing as a proto suit dying to a charged Sniper Rifle, take away Sniper rifles too? Flying makes you auto-vulnerable because everyone can see you, it comes with flying. Make the Breach Forge gun act like the charged Sniper rifle with drawbacks against vehicles, it's not like the Breach user is going anywhere, or doing much of anything other than hitting vehicles which it is designed to do and is super-vulnerable when it does. It was already difficult to kill a decent flyer with swarms before the patch, and trying to kill dropships with swarms competitively will be a joke in 1.7. The fact that you brought up swarms furthers the point of only using things when you feel safe from threats. I'm glad that you mentioned snipers as it illustrates my point pretty succinctly. It takes a considerable amount of skill for a sniper to 1 shot a proto with anything short of a headshot (or multiple given the HP values I see running around). There's multiple avenues of cover that an infantry person can take compared to a Dropship that's in the air. Having shot at me I can see a weapon trail that leads directly back to you, the sniper, and can choose whether or not your worth my time to try to pursue. If I choose to engage you and can navigate and avoid your shots well enough then I'm rewarded with having put you out of your effective range, getting close to you weakens you and strengthens me. None of this happens with a Dropship vs. Forge. I get close to you (assuming I saw where you shot from to begin with) and you're in no way less powerful or potent, if anything you're MORE powerful because I've lended you a larger target to shoot at, your damage hasn't fallen off and its no more difficult for you to take me out at 30m as it was at 300m. JudgeRhadamanthus goes over this point further in his dropship video series, if you're interested in seeing the other side's point of view then I'd suggest subscribing and checking out his videos. All credits to him for the original source of the argument I've (tried) to present. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-sVXgJKSQ 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2293	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:01:00 - [50] - Quote Hmm, but if I know forge gunners, they'll start hunting in packs of two! And to all the Condors we know this is good news....assault FGs that aren't ridiculous!

Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 86	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:03:00 - [51] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Absoliav wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Not horrible... a 25% nerf to DPS (IAFG = 1215DPS now, 925DPS after patch). Still might be a bit much but i prefer the nerf stick over the nerf bat. Sadly the Breach got the nerf sledgehammer. Sorry, sir, but math. Normal FG got a 25% DPS reduction, AFG and BFG both got a 33% reduction. I disagree that an extra 8% takes something from a stick to a sledgehammer. AFG will still be the one gun to rule them all. (From a distance.) Ok lets math it out. Pre 1.7 1663 1.1871.15 = 2270 2.5sec.75=1.875 2270/1.875=1210 dmg Post 1.7 15001.1871.15 = 2047 3.0sec.75 = 2.25 2047/2.25=909 dmg 909/1210 = 0.75124 meaning 909 is ~ 75% of 1210, or that the new damage is 75% of the old damage 1-0.75124 ~~ 25% less Or I will do this the easy way using easy numbers. What is one quarter of 12? 3 What is 12 - 3? 9 What is 12 minus one quarter of 12? 9 A 33% reduction would be more like 800 DPS. Do no question my math good sir. This is purely IAFG numbers here.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:09:00 - [52] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Absoliav wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: Not horrible... a 25% nerf to DPS (IAFG = 1215DPS now, 925DPS after patch). Still might be a bit much but i prefer the nerf stick over the nerf bat. Sadly the Breach got the nerf sledgehammer. Sorry, sir, but math. Normal FG got a 25% DPS reduction, AFG and BFG both got a 33% reduction. I disagree that an extra 8% takes something from a stick to a sledgehammer. AFG will still be the one gun to rule them all. (From a distance.) Here is some math for you, the AFG pre 1.7 can do 1663 in 2.5 seconds at proto level while the Breach can do 2772 in 6.0 seconds, these number show the ineffectiveness of the Breach while at the same time showing superiority of the Assault, in 6 seconds the assault outperforms the Breach with a lead of 554 damage in 5 seconds, now with 1.7's new stats the Breach is now 2100 in 6.0 seconds while the assault is 1500 in 3.0 seconds, the assault now leads with 900 damage in 6 seconds, so I ask you, "Why would you even bother considering using a Breach?" The new stats make the Breach even more of an inferior weapon by simply making weaker, yes, the damage reduction is comparable to the other FG variants but it hits the BFG harder even more cause it's already questionable existence when compared to the AFG, which beats it in every possible field outside of OHKing and ammo conservation.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:20:00 - [53] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: I'm glad that you mentioned snipers as it illustrates my point pretty succinctly. It takes a considerable amount of skill for a sniper to 1 shot a proto with anything short of a headshot (or multiple given the HP values I see running around). There's multiple avenues of cover that an infantry person can take compared to a Dropship that's in the air. Having shot at me I can see a weapon trail that leads directly back to you, the sniper, and can choose whether or not your worth my time to try to pursue. If I choose to engage you and can navigate and avoid your shots well enough then I'm rewarded with having put you out of your effective range, getting close to you weakens you and strengthens me. None of this happens with a Dropship vs. Forge. I get close to you (assuming I saw where you shot from to begin with) and you're in no way less powerful or potent, if anything you're MORE powerful because I've lended you a larger target to shoot at, your damage hasn't fallen off and its no more difficult for you to take me out at 30m as it was at 300m. JudgeRhadamanthus goes over this point further in his dropship video series, if you're interested in seeing the other side's point of view then I'd suggest subscribing and checking out his videos. All credits to him for the original source of the argument I've (tried) to present. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-sVXgJKSQ The problem with your argument is that rendering issues with vehicles isn't tied to the FG's performance, it's a problem with the how the game operates, you are saying that the because the game has rendering issues, FGs should be weakened to accommodate vehicle rendering issues, you are ignoring an issue in favor of your opinion, ignoring the issue of veiw rendering doesn't make it go way.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 87	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:24:00 - [54] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: I'm glad that you mentioned snipers as it illustrates my point pretty succinctly. It takes a considerable amount of skill for a sniper to 1 shot a proto with anything short of a headshot (or multiple given the HP values I see running around). There's multiple avenues of cover that an infantry person can take compared to a Dropship that's in the air. Having shot at me I can see a weapon trail that leads directly back to you, the sniper, and can choose whether or not your worth my time to try to pursue. If I choose to engage you and can navigate and avoid your shots well enough then I'm rewarded with having put you out of your effective range, getting close to you weakens you and strengthens me. None of this happens with a Dropship vs. Forge. I get close to you (assuming I saw where you shot from to begin with) and you're in no way less powerful or potent, if anything you're MORE powerful because I've lended you a larger target to shoot at, your damage hasn't fallen off and its no more difficult for you to take me out at 30m as it was at 300m. JudgeRhadamanthus goes over this point further in his dropship video series, if you're interested in seeing the other side's point of view then I'd suggest subscribing and checking out his videos. All credits to him for the original source of the argument I've (tried) to present. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-sVXgJKSQ The problem with your argument is that rendering issues with vehicles isn't tied to the FG's performance, it's a problem with the how the game operates, you are saying that the because the game has rendering issues, FGs should be weakened to accommodate vehicle rendering issues, you are ignoring an issue in favor of your opinion, ignoring the issue of veiw rendering doesn't make it go way. Justify the swarm launcher range nerf in the light of your last statement.
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 211	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:28:00 - [55] - Quote CCP, You have done well this day.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 91	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:30:00 - [56] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Justify the swarm launcher range nerf in the light of your last statement. I never agreed with it, and I still don't, it shouldn't have happened and it was a poor way of dealing with a serious problem, and I don't want anything similar to happen again for anything in this game, ignoring problems doesn't solve anything, it just allows it to persist.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 527	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:47:00 - [57] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: It's one issue but certainly not the only one, I'd still argue that, thanks to their range not having changed, the Forge is still in a position where its got a HUGE advantage over anything flying in the air. With Swarms I at least have some sort of warning in which I can hear their approach and respond to their general direction upon being hit. Forges don't leave me that opportunity unless I already have line of sight on their position and am within renderable range of my target. The hit indicator is often misleading and turning on to respond to any one threat or another often doesn't gleam me any relevant information about where your shot may have come from. My only real option, as a pilot, is to run and hope that the hit indicators on my Dropship haven't glitched to the point where I'm running into another shot. There's no sort of compelling or satisfying gameplay there, no back and forth between AV and Vehicle in which I can choose to gauge the threat of my target and decide whether or not to attack or flee; it's find a supply depot, find a nook or cranny, charge up and destroy. You're a tiny glowing dot that may or may not render at any given time that could be literally anywhere on the map without me having a single clue that you've even spawned and you've destroyed me without me having any clue how or where I could have responded differently. Is that the sort of gameplay you want? Yes. The same thing as a proto suit dying to a charged Sniper Rifle, take away Sniper rifles too? Flying makes you auto-vulnerable because everyone can see you, it comes with flying. Make the Breach Forge gun act like the charged Sniper rifle with drawbacks against vehicles, it's not like the Breach user is going anywhere, or doing much of anything other than hitting vehicles which it is designed to do and is super-vulnerable when it does. It was already difficult to kill a decent flyer with swarms before the patch, and trying to kill dropships with swarms competitively will be a joke in 1.7. The fact that you brought up swarms furthers the point of only using things when you feel safe from threats. I'm glad that you mentioned snipers as it illustrates my point pretty succinctly. It takes a considerable amount of skill for a sniper to 1 shot a proto with anything short of a headshot (or multiple given the HP values I see running around). There's multiple avenues of cover that an infantry person can take compared to a Dropship that's in the air. Having shot at me I can see a weapon trail that leads directly back to you, the sniper, and can choose whether or not your worth my time to try to pursue. If I choose to engage you and can navigate and avoid your shots well enough then I'm rewarded with having put you out of your effective range, getting close to you weakens you and strengthens me. None of this happens with a Dropship vs. Forge. I get close to you (assuming I saw where you shot from to begin with) and you're in no way less powerful or potent, if anything you're MORE powerful because I've lended you a larger target to shoot at, your damage hasn't fallen off and its no more difficult for you to take me out at 30m as it was at 300m. JudgeRhadamanthus goes over this point further in his dropship video series, if you're interested in seeing the other side's point of view then I'd suggest subscribing and checking out his videos. All credits to him for the original source of the argument I've (tried) to present. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-sVXgJKSQ Experienced Sniper users will double tap kill you, Experienced Charge and Thale users can down protos, seriously if you find out that Sniper's location, the Sniper made a mistake, or he's a bad Sniper. But point is that if you die by a Sniper, you have no idea where it's coming from, you just know you got hit by one. That smoke trail is also entirely angle dependent so often you're able to hit someone and he has no idea where you're coming from. Fails to take into account of how this balances during an actual battle. Again the Breach Forge has a long charge time, it's only getting 1 shot with no splash while being immobile while charging and limited to the heavy suit, which is mediocre at best. It's not helping on the ground, it's only doing 1 thing, and that's downing vehicles. The long charge time means that it can't tag anything that flies and if it misses it's useless, because you just gave away you location to everyone on the field within 200 meters.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 269	Posted - 2013.12.05 04:53:00 - [58] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Experienced Sniper users will double tap kill you, Experienced Charge and Thale users can down protos, seriously if you find out that Sniper's location, the Sniper made a mistake, or he's a bad Sniper. But point is that if you die by a Sniper, you have no idea where it's coming from, you just know you got hit by one. That smoke trail is also entirely angle dependent so often you're able to hit someone and he has no idea where you're coming from. Fails to take into account of how this balances during an actual battle. Again the Breach Forge has a long charge time, it's only getting 1 shot with no splash while being immobile while charging and limited to the heavy suit, which is mediocre at best. It's not helping on the ground, it's only doing 1 thing, and that's downing vehicles. The long charge time means that it can't tag anything that flees, and if it misses it's useless, because you just gave away you location to everyone on the field within 200 meters. 300m* which you can cover an exceptionally large area with against an opponent that has extremely limited if any means of realistic cover and has a large hittable area. Placing yourself on a tower or roaming with an LAV mitigates the threat of dealing with infantry in any sort of realistic fashion so them seeing the shot doesn't change much for you with the right conditions. We simply won't see eye to eye on this issue. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 4559	Posted - 2013.12.05 05:14:00 - [59] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: I just honestly find it funny people want to nerf the heavy class even more. It's like more people calling for a nerf for the FG than people calling for a buff for the HMG. Guess what CCP did...nerf the FG. People should just stop using the class, seriously. Just stop. Stop humiliating the class by roof camping with a FG. Just stop using this turd of a class. "OH YES THEY NERFED TE FG!!!!" now what? heavies need to shoot 1 - 2 more shots to kill a HAV? Big whoop. People just happy to see another nerf to the class. Nerf it more CCP. Make it even more useless. Some of us know how to admit when one of our options is overpowered, even if it IS the other 50% of our options Honestly, I don't care if it's OP. They can nerf, but yet they find it hard to buff the HMG? lol... just continue nerfing the class. ( ._.) <('.'<) "There there Mr. Heavy, it's not your fault CCP doesn't care about you"
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 447	Posted - 2013.12.05 05:40:00 - [60] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 This part is not reasonable. for EVERY OTHER "assault" varient, ROF goes up, while damage goes DOWN. But for forge, ROF goes up, AND damage goes UP, compared to regular?!! Okay, they lowered it from what it was before.. but it's Still Wrong! It has to be lower than the regular forge damage.

Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 270	Posted - 2013.12.05 05:42:00 - [61] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 This part is not reasonable. for EVERY OTHER "assault" varient, ROF goes up, while damage goes DOWN. But for forge, ROF goes up, AND damage goes UP, compared to regular?!! Okay, they lowered it from what it was before.. but it's Still Wrong! It has to be lower than the regular forge damage. I don't disagree with you and it's something I've brought up myself on multiple occasions. At the very least now the difference between Assault Forge damage and Regular Forge damage of the same tier is negligible, Assault Forges are only getting about 60-65 more damage per shot. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 718	Posted - 2013.12.05 05:52:00 - [62] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Message from Godin: I'm throwing a party for this. There's going to be hell to pay for those FGers on the 10th typical cry til some one get's nerfed then brag.
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 959	Posted - 2013.12.05 05:58:00 - [63] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 This part is not reasonable. for EVERY OTHER "assault" varient, ROF goes up, while damage goes DOWN. But for forge, ROF goes up, AND damage goes UP, compared to regular?!! Okay, they lowered it from what it was before.. but it's Still Wrong! It has to be lower than the regular forge damage. I don't disagree with you and it's something I've brought up myself on multiple occasions. At the very least now the difference between Assault Forge damage and Regular Forge damage of the same tier is negligible, Assault Forges are only getting about 60-65 more damage per shot. I agree that the assault should deal slightly less damage in exchange for a higher ROF. Also the whole idea of not being able to hold the charge really doesn't play out as planned since you can just cancel it right at the end. Why not just make it so the shot has to be fired? So about those vehicle locks...
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 720	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:26:00 - [64] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: ... and they're pretty reasonable! CCP Logibro wrote: Forge Gun numbers! Assault STD GÇô N/A ADV - 1525 -> 1375 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 PRO - 1663 -> 1500 \| 2.5 -> 3.0 This part is not reasonable. for EVERY OTHER "assault" varient, ROF goes up, while damage goes DOWN. But for forge, ROF goes up, AND damage goes UP, compared to regular?!! Okay, they lowered it from what it was before.. but it's Still Wrong! It has to be lower than the regular forge damage. I don't disagree with you and it's something I've brought up myself on multiple occasions. At the very least now the difference between Assault Forge damage and Regular Forge damage of the same tier is negligible, Assault Forges are only getting about 60-65 more damage per shot. I agree that the assault should deal slightly less damage in exchange for a higher ROF. Also the whole idea of not being able to hold the charge really doesn't play out as planned since you can just cancel it right at the end. Why not just make it so the shot has to be fired? I have lost alot of respect for tankers. Ur all gonna be so tough when CCP does your fightin for you. I got news your still gonna have to chose red line or explode. I'm gonna finish off my proficiencies for forge guns.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1142	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:29:00 - [65] - Quote Forge Gun was reasonable to begin with. I'm glad the Assaults were toned down though. Annoying *******. The Breach damage reductions are a bit too high, though all these numbers are still usable and rather reasonable. Just to prove this, I will proto breach every single vehicle I see. Let them feel the wrath of a weapon preforming as it should! SWEET MOTHER OF TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ, YOU SOUND LIKE A MAJESTIC EAGLE! DO YOU SING?!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1925	Posted - 2013.12.05 07:06:00 - [66] - Quote You seem to forget that forgegun operation still decreases the charge up time by 5% per lvl. So in reality proto assault forgeguns still charge up in 2.25 secs. Not 3 secs like the devpost stated. damage has only beeing slighty reduced but not by too much so you still can 1 shot every suit in the game with a direct hit. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 506	Posted - 2013.12.05 07:49:00 - [67] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Foundation Seldon wrote: I'm glad that you mentioned snipers as it illustrates my point pretty succinctly. It takes a considerable amount of skill for a sniper to 1 shot a proto with anything short of a headshot (or multiple given the HP values I see running around). There's multiple avenues of cover that an infantry person can take compared to a Dropship that's in the air. Having shot at me I can see a weapon trail that leads directly back to you, the sniper, and can choose whether or not your worth my time to try to pursue. If I choose to engage you and can navigate and avoid your shots well enough then I'm rewarded with having put you out of your effective range, getting close to you weakens you and strengthens me. None of this happens with a Dropship vs. Forge. I get close to you (assuming I saw where you shot from to begin with) and you're in no way less powerful or potent, if anything you're MORE powerful because I've lended you a larger target to shoot at, your damage hasn't fallen off and its no more difficult for you to take me out at 30m as it was at 300m. JudgeRhadamanthus goes over this point further in his dropship video series, if you're interested in seeing the other side's point of view then I'd suggest subscribing and checking out his videos. All credits to him for the original source of the argument I've (tried) to present. www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w-sVXgJKSQ The problem with your argument is that rendering issues with vehicles isn't tied to the FG's performance, it's a problem with the how the game operates, you are saying that the because the game has rendering issues, FGs should be weakened to accommodate vehicle rendering issues, you are ignoring an issue in favor of your opinion, ignoring the issue of veiw rendering doesn't make it go way. Problem = fix dificulty = FG fix < rendering fix If "IF" and when rendering EVER gets fixed then the FG can be easily rebalanced. Sounds to me like you're just trying to defend your unfair advantage here The distances with which the FG can be effective is also an issue here. At the extreme end of the opporation range of the FG the FG opporater is EXTREMELY dificult to locate, not to mention target, due to size/distance. Some kind of lingering tracer needs to be added to the FG round as it travels at the very least. As well the light emitted from the forge should be far more easily identified at extreme ranges. {:)}{3GÇó>
Rusty Shallows 553	Posted - 2013.12.05 08:17:00 - [68] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: Message from Godin: I'm throwing a party for this. There's going to be hell to pay for those FGers on the 10th typical cry til some one get's nerfed then brag. They played a good Forum Metagame and earned that win. It's the game developers fault for not wising up. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now." SR-71 310k+ SP for +0.05m/s (>2in) on a Heavy. Totally worth it.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 175	Posted - 2013.12.05 08:18:00 - [69] - Quote Well they only broke out the 8lb Nerfhammer instead of the 24lb one they usually break out when dealing with the heavy. I wonder what heavy weapon they'll nerf next....... Oh wait thats they lot!!! Nae worries lads in 6 months when the rest of the Adv and Proto HAVs get released we'll get a small buff. On a more serious note the nerf ain't too bad any dedicated FG operator has the skills and fittings to deal with this. I do feel bad for any Light weapon AV specialists as they will need to spec into the heavy to be really competitive (Wait what did I just say). Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
preddytar Science For Death 1	Posted - 2013.12.05 08:27:00 - [70] - Quote Did you know that a wirykomi 'BFG' with prof 4 and 2 complex damage mods can insta-pop installations? Nerfing it to balance it vs vehicles is fine, idk. However I get a warm and fuzzy feeling with every redberry that dies as a result of having the nerve to kill me in an installation. Killing manned installations just won't be the same

Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 770	Posted - 2013.12.05 08:57:00 - [71] - Quote Isn't it odd that the breach is the weakest FG when Caldari weapons are supposed to have the best breach capabilities, and the assault is the best which is supposed to be where the Gallente shines.....? Hope this doesn't translate over to the RR..... Fix TTK!!! MATARI PRIDE!!! Tears For Our Dearly Departed ReGnYuM. May He One Day Return To Shoot Us All In The Face...
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 226	Posted - 2013.12.05 09:29:00 - [72] - Quote They fcked over the breach fg hard. so dumb
Epicsting pro FACTION WARFARE ARMY 313	Posted - 2013.12.05 10:01:00 - [73] - Quote I love my plasma cannon. For the mother land.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 4	Posted - 2013.12.05 10:38:00 - [74] - Quote You are serious ? It is ALL that the forge gun is reduce by ? The swarm launchers lost more than half their range and the FG just lost some damages (the swarm lost it too by the way, but it was normal). CCP, I love Dust, but seriously, why do you want the swarm to fight in "packs" while you let the FG destroy everything (even neutral turrets) alone on the top of his tower ? I would have agree if the swarm had the same lock-on range than the forge gun (300m), even 250M ; but now a forge gun got TWICE our range. They don't even have to expose to destroy tanks and dropship. And about the damages reduction I will give you one guess : 220 x 6 = 1320 points of damage per wave of rockets for a PROTO swarm (if all the rockets reach their target) 1200 points of damage per blast for a STANDARD Forge gun Think about it.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1147	Posted - 2013.12.05 10:47:00 - [75] - Quote Evan Gotabor wrote: You are serious ? It is ALL that the forge gun is reduce by ? The swarm launchers lost more than half their range and the FG just lost some damages (the swarm lost it too by the way, but it was normal). CCP, I love Dust, but seriously, why do you want the swarm to fight in "packs" while you let the FG destroy everything (even neutral turrets) alone on the top of his tower ? I would have agree if the swarm had the same lock-on range than the forge gun (300m), even 250M ; but now a forge gun got TWICE our range. They don't even have to expose to destroy tanks and dropship. And about the damages reduction I will give you one guess : 220 x 6 = 1320 points of damage per wave of rockets for a PROTO swarm (if all the rockets reach their target) 1200 points of damage per blast for a STANDARD Forge gun Think about it. One is carried by any suit, one is restricted to a certain suit type. One costs 53 CPU, 12 PG, the other costs 23 CPU, 3 PG. One locks, fires, then changes trajectory upon reaching the location of the last lock. The other doesn't even aim, you fire and pray that your target doesn't change direction or position otherwise it'll miss. One is a motherfuckin' anti-material cannon that is actually a modified mining tool, the other is an anti-material rocket launcher. Think about it. SWEET MOTHER OF TERESA ON THE HOOD OF A MERCEDES BENZ, YOU SOUND LIKE A MAJESTIC EAGLE! DO YOU SING?!
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2013.12.05 15:39:00 - [76] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Problem = fix dificulty = FG fix < rendering fix If "IF" and when rendering EVER gets fixed then the FG can be easily rebalanced. Sounds to me like you're just trying to defend your unfair advantage here The distances with which the FG can be effective is also an issue here. At the extreme end of the opporation range of the FG the FG opporater is EXTREMELY dificult to locate, not to mention target, due to size/distance. Some kind of lingering tracer needs to be added to the FG round as it travels at the very least. As well the light emitted from the forge should be far more easily identified at extreme ranges. I'm not defending an unfair advantage, the FG is working as it's intended, it's vehicles that are having an issue while the FG is getting the blame for it, rendering will not be fixed by simply ignoring it. Your solution to the FG is a far more reasonable solution than what most would want, and a better answer than just nerfing it, if CCP made it easier to identify the location or direction of an FG shot it would make a lot of the rendering issues less taxing on Pilots. Again, I'm not argue if this change to the FG wasn't unreasonable, I'm saying that it's unbalanced, why is the Assault still the most powerful FG, why is it still going to wipe infantry and vehicles, while only suffering one minor inconvenience? It's too good of a gun, the Breach isn't even considered for AV most of the time cause of how comparatively inferior it is to the AFG.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1213	Posted - 2013.12.05 17:09:00 - [77] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Ok lets math it out. .... This is purely IAFG numbers here. EDIT: Of course all of the damage and time reduction could be factored out so we could have done it with base stats I guess. Bonus: Breach FG 2100/2772 ~~ 75% Normal FG is actually closer to a 20% nerf. I stand corrected, sir. Your math shows that the nerf isn't even as bad as what I said, though. I think we can agree it isn't the "nerf sledgehammer" you originally stated? ED: Reworded to reduce dickishness. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 268	Posted - 2013.12.05 17:21:00 - [78] - Quote Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2013.12.05 17:47:00 - [79] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. That's not a bad idea, it is a pretty big gun, I think if they increased the amount of sway the gun produces while charging it would help balance it out and help with the problem of it being able to do more damage than a HAV railgun.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1843	Posted - 2013.12.05 17:59:00 - [80] - Quote I have proto FG Im happy with the changes TBH when the vehicle changes came about and the FG wasnt changed yet the SL was i was a bit worried but not that much since swarms were the biggest threat FG have now been changed due to vehicle changes, it doesnt seem that bad, you can still annoy ppl in pubs with tower camping Its still a decent AV weapon, still has the power needed and the range

DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 8376	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:01:00 - [81] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. I've thought something along those lines too, but it would need to stabilize if you kept it aimed at a vehicle, otherwise it would be too unreliable at its main job: traumatizing vehicle users. Not sure how programming something like that would go :/ Win ISK / Vids / O7
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 54	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:04:00 - [82] - Quote Rebalance assault forge gun to how it should function in comparison to standard and breach variants. Add fall off damage to prevent one sole forge gunner on a roof locking down the entire map of vehicles while also holding an objective. The damage is fine, the standard forge gun is fine, the breach is a little underwhelming compared to the assault variant.
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 54	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:06:00 - [83] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. I've thought something along those lines too, but it would need to stabilize if you kept it aimed at a vehicle, otherwise it would be too unreliable at its main job: traumatizing vehicle users. Not sure how programming something like that would go :/ vehicle aim assist? Although im against adding dispersion of some sort to the forge gun. It'd be nice to add some sort of aiming similar to the HMG
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 25	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:12:00 - [84] - Quote . *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER Unkn0wn Killers Renegade Alliance 25	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:14:00 - [85] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. I've thought something along those lines too, but it would need to stabilize if you kept it aimed at a vehicle, otherwise it would be too unreliable at its main job: traumatizing vehicle users. Not sure how programming something like that would go :/ stop getting raped by your father *WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY*
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 228	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:24:00 - [86] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: I approve so hard. But honestly, what they needed was a range nerf, not so much damage. (I'm thinking around 200m or so) Dear God No .... They tried that during the second part of the E3 build ...... and we were ******* useless. Everybody laughed at us during that time . No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 451	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:53:00 - [87] - Quote Absoliav wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. That's not a bad idea, it is a pretty big gun, I think if they increased the amount of sway the gun produces while charging it would help balance it out and help with the problem of it being able to do more damage than a HAV railgun. Dont think it would help. Seems like its a "scanhit" weapon, so the sway is cosmetic only? When I try to use it to kill infantry and get a direct hit, i get the 50 WP credit, before the animation of the big blue shiney finishes travelling to the target.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2434	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:56:00 - [88] - Quote Great. Give FGers even more incentive to pop infantry with them. No.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 93	Posted - 2013.12.06 07:31:00 - [89] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Absoliav wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Still needs a random trajectory deviation to make sniping infantry a little harder. That's not a bad idea, it is a pretty big gun, I think if they increased the amount of sway the gun produces while charging it would help balance it out and help with the problem of it being able to do more damage than a HAV railgun. Dont think it would help. Seems like its a "scanhit" weapon, so the sway is cosmetic only? When I try to use it to kill infantry and get a direct hit, i get the 50 WP credit, before the animation of the big blue shiney finishes travelling to the target. You misunderstood me, I mean the FG should have a charge sway, as the FG builds a charge, it would begin to shake/sway more, making it more difficult to hit smaller/distant targets and would require more timing of shots.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 102	Posted - 2013.12.06 07:35:00 - [90] - Quote just glad the av grenades took a hit. those things were ridiculous as they were. If you look at the damage they hit as hard if not harder than a plasma cannon impact each, with no reload time. Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.



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