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JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 34	Posted - 2013.11.30 01:58:00 - [1] - Quote Hi all In the last months we've seen and experienced a lot of kills/deaths by high RoF weapons such as ARs and SCRs (plus others, maybe) in alarming ways, which has lead to the typical 'Nerf' discussion, but i think we could address this situation from a new (?) and different angle. This is not the same game it was back in 1.3. With the new TTK, do we really need damage modifiers? A bit extra damage is always welcome, but why not just content with Proficiency skill for the weapons of your choice? Shooting a damage-modded advanced or prototype weapon (PLUS proficiency) gives you a ridiculous advantage over others who have to shoot a lot longer to kill. You can shoot AND take damage while the other guy has to shoot more than you without the option to take any shots because he dies instantly. Right now i see it as absurd as having shield/armor hardeners for dropsuits (don't even think about it!). Doesn't make sense, It's a feature that belongs to a past where gameplay was entirely different. My suggestion: remove damage mods from the game. Keep proficiency skill bonus. Now, your thoughts...
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3093	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:04:00 - [2] - Quote The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges.
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 50	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:17:00 - [3] - Quote I dont agree with removing the damage mods, a simple solution is much better than outright removing them. Modify the stacking penalty to an increasing 33% for each additional mod. So that your first is 100% efficient. The second is 67% the third is 34% and if you stack 4 the 4th would be 1% efficient. Simple and clean. Dedicated scout. Because the suit is underpowered. Imagine the good ones when we get buffed people ;)
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 524	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:19:00 - [4] - Quote Don't agree with removing them, but they do need to be toned down. The first Complex damage mod should boost by 7% not 10%.
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 35	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:20:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges. There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth. There's another nice one.
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 286	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:21:00 - [6] - Quote OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1849	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:24:00 - [7] - Quote Yes please!!!! "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle I'll take your Iskies
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3095	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:26:00 - [8] - Quote zibathy numbertwo wrote: OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. ^ This
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 603	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:26:00 - [9] - Quote go for it I dont use them SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 35	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:36:00 - [10] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: zibathy numbertwo wrote: OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. ^ This I think there must be a plan behind the TTK change. Removing that 10% would mean going back in time. I'm not talking about nerfing damage, only about eliminating excessive inequities while killing. Only having proficiency bonus would balance things a bit IMO.

Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2393	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:38:00 - [11] - Quote We already have few enough high modules to choose from as it is, let's try not to remove anymore content. Like zibathy said, just take that 10% damage bonus off of all the weapons. No, I am not CCP Logibro.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 433	Posted - 2013.11.30 02:50:00 - [12] - Quote If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module. You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough **. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods. What you guys are talking about with this bull, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head. Now quit your ***ing and get gud scrubs. {:)}{3GÇó>
Theex 1661 Gummibaerenbande 514 20	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:02:00 - [13] - Quote Hello. My personal opinion is, that they should be removed for infantery completly. The TTK is way to high at the moment and the damage mods are a big part of the cause why.. I dont know about that dubious 10% damage buff, but i think if there were no more damage mods in this game anymore, the TTK would incrase and it would take a lot more skill just to play with the basic damage output combained with the personal weapon proficiany. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY. A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!! The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots? Using those high slots to get more hp or to equip more advanced tactical modules is obsolete if a damage mod using player kills you under one second. The range is another aspect. As your damage increases, you deal more damage even over ridiculous ranges. Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pi**ed. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing 0-4/15-30). I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay. I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again... Greetings Theex
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 37	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:02:00 - [14] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module. You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough **. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods. What you guys are talking about with this bull, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head. Now quit your ***ing and get gud scrubs. Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs. But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3099	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:21:00 - [15] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: We already have few enough high modules to choose from as it is, let's try not to remove anymore content. Like zibathy said, just take that 10% damage bonus off of all the weapons. exactly, a total of 6 high slot modules (half of them are for shields ) compared to 12 low slot modules and I'm probably missing even more modules for the highs.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 434	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:35:00 - [16] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module. You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough **. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods. What you guys are talking about with this bull, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head. Now quit your ***ing and get gud scrubs. Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs. But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us. No dude they use regulators/recharger, or at least they should be, because their suits are geared to this play style. The have a low shield regen time and high shield base HP. If your not you're ding it wrong. And what are the Gallente supposed to use? They have the worst shild stats in the game. How the hell is it supposed to be expected that it is fair for the Gal to only have shield mods to rely on. It is not in the slightest bit fair at all. The simple fact is, this game's racial classes are set up to function in very specific ways. And removing damage mods or nerfing them would ruin that dynamic, as it is that the shields extenders and damage mods seem to have been balanced with eachother in mind. If you take two player with the same suit and put a damage mod on one and a shield extender on the other, using the same gun, the drop into a match on opposit teams, find eachother, then both stand still and start firing at eachother at exactly the same time, the person with the shield extenders will win but just barly. The shield extender damage mod dynamic is balanced. If your problem is with TTK, there is no reason to go asking for a fix that completely destroys an entire racial play style. Ask for a reduction in overal weapon damage output or for all of the suits to have they're base HP buffed. Or perhapse that isn't the problem at all maybe you just suck and need something to blame your suck on. {:)}{3GÇó>
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 37	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:53:00 - [17] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module. You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough **. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods. What you guys are talking about with this bull, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head. Now quit your *ing and get gud scrubs. Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs. But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us. No dude they use regulators/recharger, or at least they should be, because their suits are geared to this play style. They have a low shield regen time and high shield base HP. If your not you're ding it wrong. And what are the Gallente supposed to use? They have the worst shild stats in the game. How the hell is it supposed to be expected that it is fair for the Gal to only have shied mods to rely on. It is not in the slightest bit fair at all. The simple fact is, this game's racial classes are set up to function in very specific ways. And removing damage mods or nerfing them would ruin that dynamic, as it is that the shields extenders and damage mods seem to have been balanced with eachother in mind. If you take two player with the same suit and put a damage mod on one and a shield extender on the other, using the same gun, the drop into a match on opposit teams, find eachother, then both stand still and start firing at eachother at exactly the same time, the person with the shield extenders will win but just barly. The shield extender damage mod dynamic is balanced. If your problem is with TTK, there is no reason to go asking for a fix that completely destroys an entire racial play style. Ask for a reduction in overal weapon damage output or for all of the suits to have they're base HP buffed. Or perhapse that isn't the problem at all maybe you just suck and need something to blame your suck on. Why so many agression dude. And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor. Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before. And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES** in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits. Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better.
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 635	Posted - 2013.11.30 03:54:00 - [18] - Quote This is a moronic solution. What makes this game interesting is that you have to weigh the costs and bebefits of having more EHP vs more DPS or more utility. Removing the tradeoffs and suit variety is moronic. Just nerf base DPS on the problem weapons, it's a much smarter way to increase the TTK. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 434	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:17:00 - [19] - Quote "And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor." Only until the other racial weapons come out. facepalm terrible argument. Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before." Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended. "And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits." Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it. Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better.[/quote] One play style is meant to be a fast it and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. {:)}{3GÇó>
Cosgar ParagonX 8088	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:22:00 - [20] - Quote Keep damage mods since you have to equip them. Remove proficiency and re-balance every weapon so we don't have guns that are good at all tiers while others are only good at prototype. Having a flat 15% damage bonus without giving anything up on a fitting makes the game SP > Skill instead of the other way around. You want gank? You should have to give up some tank. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 434	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:24:00 - [21] - Quote And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ. This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line. {:)}{3GÇó>
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2010	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:26:00 - [22] - Quote I think a player should be able to make a choice between leaning offensive or defensive in their suit fittings. Damage modules are the one item that adjusts a suit towards offense. Others could be added that focus on additional capabilities other than outright damage. The upcoming changes to vehicles are going to focus on brief periods of highly effective offensive and defensive capabilities. I can see making infantry damage modules something you activate and then have a cool down. When you are ready to assault you turn it on knowing that when it runs out you better finish the fight or prepare to take cover and wait out the recharge. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 37	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:27:00 - [23] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor." Only until the other racial weapons come out. facepalm terrible argument. "Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before." Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended. "And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits." Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it. "Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better." One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 434	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:32:00 - [24] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor." Only until the other racial weapons come out. facepalm terrible argument. "Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before." Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended. "And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits." Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it. "Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better." One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part. But I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about so... And I'll be ok with the removal of damage mods when you're ok with the removal of shield extenders, because it nullifies diferent play styles and It's just ridiculous that one player kills another with them. If you have a proble with TTK then address that problem. But leave damage mods and their related play mechanics out of it. {:)}{3GÇó>
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 510	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:33:00 - [25] - Quote By your logic, every Caldari should be running 4 damage mods. Raise your hand if you do that routinely?... Hmm, nobody. Why? Because damage mods are there for armor tankers who have nothing else to put there. Now, if you changed armor reps to highs or created a new module like the shield regulator, then fine, but otherwise you hurt the armor tankers too much. Also: damage mods are just not that amazing. IMO there's no benefit to the 3rd one over a complex shield module (unless you are sniping I guess), especially in a shield-tanking race's suit. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
CharCharOdell 1699	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:41:00 - [26] - Quote So then all armor tanks can do is omni tank? No absolutely not. What makes more sense is removing damage skills from them just like they did for tanks. There are four main builds: Shields/Speed Shields/Armor DPS/speed DPS/armor Removing damage mods removes a huge amount of customizations. Weapon passive skills should never be anything to do with ROF or DMG. Bringing back the old sharpshooter skillay be the best alternative. Or perhaps removing the weapon proficiency skill completely and leaving only the operation, and then the other skills as they are. Fact is: Minmitar and gallente builds are supposed to be DMG mods in high slots. Removing these makes both of them pointless, as gallente would be fit like Amarr are supposed to and MN would have to copy Caldari; neither would be as good as their specialized (for that build) counterparts. Also, this QQ by the OP is directed at the gallente logi with ARs stacking damage mods and plates. Did it ever occur to you that their range is getting nerfed and you'll be able to kill them with literally any other rifle? Challenge weapons are supposed to out DPS everything else at short range. Also keep in mind that the logi will probably be getting nerfed across the board in some way or another, so this problem you are having is part of a lack of content, bug also your stupidity to try closing with a gallente build and thinking you have a chance. The only weapons who can take gallente builds are scout shotguns and mass drivers (both when using heavy cover to exploit their enemy). #caldarigirlsdoitbetter Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Seigfried Warheit The Neutral Zone 56	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:49:00 - [27] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Removing damage mods removes a huge amount of customizations. Weapon passive skills should never be anything to do with ROF or DMG. Bringing back the old sharpshooter skillay be the best alternative. Or perhaps removing the weapon proficiency skill completely and leaving only the operation, and then the other skills as they are. Yes pls! This makes the most sense..I was at first to get rid of damage mods cause I hated them dearly but Ill admit I was blinded with rage. I like this solution better and it makes sense.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 138	Posted - 2013.11.30 04:54:00 - [28] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges. There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth. There's another nice one. Life is not simple when dealing with Human Beings . Don't agree with elimination of damage mods . Just an attempt of a quick fix for something that should be well thought out and addressed . Even Satan sees goodness and truth in his actions . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 139	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:04:00 - [29] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ. This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line. Hear ...Hear ( * stands and claps loudly * ) this needs to stop . Another case of constant crying from and by people who can't handle customization . I think their goal is to eliminate any choice in play style so everyone will walk around with the same suits and the same mods in their fits . This is PLAIN to see . It's about to happen to tanks and let's see how much fun the vehicle users will have . Everyone will have different tanks but the same fits ( boring ) , the only differences will be in the turrets and you will see people with like turrets running the same fits as well . Watch and see . Some people don't like originality . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:07:00 - [30] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor." Only until the other racial weapons come out. facepalm terrible argument. "Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before." Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended. "And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits." Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it. "Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better." One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part. But I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about so... And I'll be ok with the removal of damage mods when you're ok with the removal of shield extenders, because it nullifies diferent play styles and It's just ridiculous that one player kills another with them. If you have a proble with TTK then address that problem. But leave damage mods and their related play mechanics out of it. Why would you edit the ending of my post in your quote? weird stuff, i'm not as offensive as you, sir. AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz.

Shruikan Iceeye 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 104	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:13:00 - [31] - Quote Just make the AR kick. How many times do you get killed by an Assault Scrambler 1v1? If your answer is a lot, i'm going to have to tell you that youre not that good. No offense :)
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:17:00 - [32] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ. This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line. Hear ...Hear ( * stands and claps loudly * ) this needs to stop . Another case of constant crying from and by people who can't handle customization . I think their goal is to eliminate any choice in play style so everyone will walk around with the same suits and the same mods in their fits . This is PLAIN to see . It's about to happen to tanks and let's see how much fun the vehicle users will have . Everyone will have different tanks but the same fits ( boring ) , the only differences will be in the turrets and you will see people with like turrets running the same fits as well . Watch and see . Some people don't like originality . I'm for the complete opposite man! The reason why i say this, and the reason why this thing is bothering me is because it's turning into something so superior to other customizations, that it's turning into a norm, outmatching any other preferences which don't stand a chance. And i'm not talking about Gallente logis only. I'm talking about proto-stomping and outrageous damage differences even between weapons of the same type. I like Tactical AR, but within it's effective range (long range) it's still outmatched by a regular Duvolle with damage mods. There's no room for customization there, no room for creativity or preferences for different play styles.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 437	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:17:00 - [33] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz. Really, then what's this BS here all about: JP Acuna wrote: But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. Now, go tell some more bold-faced lies somewhere else. {:)}{3GÇó>
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1449	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:18:00 - [34] - Quote Yes we do need damage modifers. Especially for niche weapons like the Laser Rifle and Mass Driver. These weapons have incredibly high TTK in comparison to automatic weapons like the Assault Rifle and/or Scrambler Rifle. (But don't get me wrong, if a good LR user is in his optimal range, they will melt you to ashes quickly). A better approach at the issue would be to either limit the amount of damage mods you can have to 1 per type. Here's how it would break down: 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier You can have all of these modules on the same suit, but you cannot stack more than one of the same type. Meaning you can have both A Light and Sidearm damage modifier, but you can't have 2 light or sidearm damage modifier. It would work in a fashion similar to the afterburners, which only allow you to fit one of them on your vehicle. Another way we could go about things is by increasing the stacking penalties of the damage modifiers themselves. (Though the problem truly lies in the TTK, not the damage modifiers) Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:21:00 - [35] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz. Really, then what's this BS here all about: JP Acuna wrote: But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. Now, go tell some more bold-faced lies somewhere else. I meant: "one player kills another within a second [when it takes much longer for the other]" I thought i didn't need to be so redundant.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 437	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:22:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yes we do need damage modifers. Especially for niche weapons like the Laser Rifle and Mass Driver. These weapons have incredibly high TTK in comparison to automatic weapons like the Assault Rifle and/or Scrambler Rifle. (But don't get me wrong, if a good LR user is in his optimal range, they will melt you to ashes quickly). A better approach at the issue would be to either limit the amount of damage mods you can have to 1 per type. Here's how it would break down: 1 Heavy Weapon Damage Modifier 1 Light Weapon Damage Modifier 1 Sidearm Weapon Damage Modifier You can have all of these modules on the same suit, but you cannot stack more than one of the same type. Meaning you can have both A Light and Sidearm damage modifier, but you can't have 2 light or sidearm damage modifier. It would work in a fashion similar to the afterburners, which only allow you to fit one of them on your vehicle. Another way we could go about things is by increasing the stacking penalties of the damage modifiers themselves. (Though the problem truly lies in the TTK, not the damage modifiers) Yah right after they limit how many shield extenders you can equip to only one. {:)}{3GÇó>
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1452	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:30:00 - [37] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Yah right after they limit how many shield extenders you can equip to only one. That would be insanely broken and horribly unbalanced in terms of Armor and Shields. With that idea, the most additional health you can get from shields is 66HP. This would severely gimp the Caldari and Minmatar suits, as well as guaranteeing that the "speed tanking" play-style will never be viable again. And 66HP is not a lot when every weapon I have ever picked up can do more damage than that when I blink. (As long as it's used properly) Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 437	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:33:00 - [38] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz. Really, then what's this BS here all about: JP Acuna wrote: But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. Now, go tell some more bold-faced lies somewhere else. I meant: "one player kills another within a second [when it takes much longer for the other]" I thought i didn't need to be so redundant. What other are you talking about. You either use damage mods to increase your TTK the opponent or you use extender to increase your personal TTK or TTBK. Your proble, by the quote I took form you is obviously with low TTK "one second". It has nothing to do with damage mods. Because one either sacrifices tank for gank or gank for tank. {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 437	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:34:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: Yah right after they limit how many shield extenders you can equip to only one. That would be insanely broken and horribly unbalanced in terms of Armor and Shields. With that idea, the most additional health you can get from shields is 66HP. This would severely gimp the Caldari and Minmatar suits, as well as guaranteeing that the "speed tanking" play-style will never be viable again. And 66HP is not a lot when every weapon I have ever picked up can do more damage than that when I blink. (As long as it's used properly) But you seem to have absolutly no proble gimping the Gallente. shakes his head {:)}{3GÇó>
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 139	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:36:00 - [40] - Quote Theex 1661 wrote: Hello. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY. A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!! The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots? Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pied. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing like 0/15 up to 4/30). I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay. I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again... Greetings Theex I'm so tired of people using the " new player experience " as an excuse for radical changes . Look at what you said about the AR comparison and think about it next time . Damage mods are suppose to increase the damage output of that said weapon that it is applied to even more so if it's an advanced weapon , that's just one tier below . The Duvolle without the mod is at a disadvantage , of course and that argument isn't even valid . I'm a " New " player and one should learn who they are up against and adapt to their adversary . If you see top tier players and you are not top tier then you have to play more of a support role . If your new your not loosing because of damage mods , your loosing because your being out skilled and out classed and most of the time your strategies are weak and flawed . you cant stand toe to toe with anyone ( at least you shouldn't ) strafing and movement is necessary . If your a weaker player then your aim should be to outrange your opponent , meaning : finding weapons that you can deal death blows from longer distances so your not exposed to CQC . There are many tactics that one can use to maximize their potential and limit their vulnerability . That's the beauty of this game , their is NO ONE specific type of play style but if you keep taking away content that's exactly what will happen . You people are killing the game and the fun factor ... oh yeah , you people already say that it's not fun but that might just be for you , don't ruin it for the rest of us . " BANE** " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5404	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:44:00 - [41] - Quote Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:44:00 - [42] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz. Really, then what's this BS here all about: JP Acuna wrote: But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. Now, go tell some more bold-faced lies somewhere else. I meant: "one player kills another within a second [when it takes much longer for the other]" I thought i didn't need to be so redundant. What other are you talking about. You either use damage mods to increase your TTK the opponent or you use extender to increase your personal TTK or TTBK. Your proble, by the quote I took form you is obviously with low TTK "one second". It has nothing to do with damage mods. Because one either sacrifices tank for gank or gank for tank. the other PLAYER. One player can kill faster than the other..player... damn, seriously? It does have to do with damage mods. If it was only for skilled damage increase, the difference would not be so unfair.
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:46:00 - [43] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. Finally! Thanks for passing by and leaving a reasonable opinion on the subject.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 139	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:47:00 - [44] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ. This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line. Hear ...Hear ( * stands and claps loudly * ) this needs to stop . Another case of constant crying from and by people who can't handle customization . I think their goal is to eliminate any choice in play style so everyone will walk around with the same suits and the same mods in their fits . This is PLAIN to see . It's about to happen to tanks and let's see how much fun the vehicle users will have . Everyone will have different tanks but the same fits ( boring ) , the only differences will be in the turrets and you will see people with like turrets running the same fits as well . Watch and see . Some people don't like originality . I'm for the complete opposite man! The reason why i say this, and the reason why this thing is bothering me is because it's turning into something so superior to other customizations, that it's turning into a norm, outmatching any other preferences which don't stand a chance. And i'm not talking about Gallente logis only. I'm talking about proto-stomping and outrageous damage differences even between weapons of the same type. I like Tactical AR, but within it's effective range (long range) it's still outmatched by a regular Duvolle with damage mods. There's no room for customization there, no room for creativity or preferences for different play styles. I can't agree . I have a fit I use which is a Caldari Assault and it's not even an advanced but I use an advanced damage mod on it with a tactical AR and I can smash with that fit and I'm not even maxed out ( you talk like your maxed out ) like I'm sure you are . I can come out of a match with at least 10 kills and two deaths in a match ( until I change ) just with that fit alone but most of the time I change to fit the situation . Everyone is complaining about proto stomping like these people can't be killed . You have the same opportunity as they do . I am FAR behind but I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage because I understand my limits and what I can do . Hell I don't even have an OB or any tactical strike and I'm fine with that because I understand that all things come in time and if I work hard enough then what I don't have right now I will get . I just don't try to do more than I can and I believe that's a lot of people's problem who are not just capable with fighting with a prototype player in a CQC situation / " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5404	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:47:00 - [45] - Quote zibathy numbertwo wrote: OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. This. I was there when the weaponry skill book had it's 5%-per-level bonus removed from it and applied across the board to all weapons. Their reason is that everyone would train that weapon skill book to level 5 anyways. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:52:00 - [46] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: the other PLAYER. One player can kill faster than the other..player... Facepalm and with a shield extender one player can survive longer than the other... Damn seriously. To obtain gank one must sacrifice tank. Are you even paying attention at all? {:)}{3GÇó>
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 38	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:54:00 - [47] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Theex 1661 wrote: Hello. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY. A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!! The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots? Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pi**ed. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing like 0/15 up to 4/30). I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay. I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again... Greetings Theex I'm so tired of people using the " new player experience " as an excuse for radical changes . Look at what you said about the AR comparison and think about it next time . Damage mods are suppose to increase the damage output of that said weapon that it is applied to even more so if it's an advanced weapon , that's just one tier below . The Duvolle without the mod is at a disadvantage , of course and that argument isn't even valid . I'm a " New " player and one should learn who they are up against and adapt to their adversary . If you see top tier players and you are not top tier then you have to play more of a support role . If your new your not loosing because of damage mods , your loosing because your being out skilled and out classed and most of the time your strategies are weak and flawed . you cant stand toe to toe with anyone ( at least you shouldn't ) strafing and movement is necessary . If your a weaker player then your aim should be to outrange your opponent , meaning : finding weapons that you can deal death blows from longer distances so your not exposed to CQC . There are many tactics that one can use to maximize their potential and limit their vulnerability . That's the beauty of this game , their is NO ONE specific type of play style but if you keep taking away content that's exactly what will happen . You people are killing the game and the fun factor ... oh yeah , you people already say that it's not fun but that might just be for you , don't ruin it for the rest of us . So, what you're saying is that it's a very tactic decision when half a team are noobs in the mountains trying to snipe, not helping their team at all. Because that's the only chance they have to "compete". I have an alt with much less SP than my main. I'm telling you, i tried different weapons not to get closer to veterans. Tried the SCR, the Laser... there's no much of a point. I try to be supportive, logi lovin' and stuff.... Not possible when the other team is upon you killing everyone included you. A whole team can't be supportive when there's no one to support. But that's also a matchmaking problem that also needs to be addressed, but not here.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:55:00 - [48] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. Finally! Thanks for passing by and leaving a reasonable opinion on the subject. Reasonable right after they reduce the amount of HP shield extenders provide. Since that is what you are talking about doing to the damage mods. {:)}{3GÇó>
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 05:56:00 - [49] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Theex 1661 wrote: Hello. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY. A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!! The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots? Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pi**ed. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing like 0/15 up to 4/30). I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay. I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again... Greetings Theex I'm so tired of people using the " new player experience " as an excuse for radical changes . Look at what you said about the AR comparison and think about it next time . Damage mods are suppose to increase the damage output of that said weapon that it is applied to even more so if it's an advanced weapon , that's just one tier below . The Duvolle without the mod is at a disadvantage , of course and that argument isn't even valid . I'm a " New " player and one should learn who they are up against and adapt to their adversary . If you see top tier players and you are not top tier then you have to play more of a support role . If your new your not loosing because of damage mods , your loosing because your being out skilled and out classed and most of the time your strategies are weak and flawed . you cant stand toe to toe with anyone ( at least you shouldn't ) strafing and movement is necessary . If your a weaker player then your aim should be to outrange your opponent , meaning : finding weapons that you can deal death blows from longer distances so your not exposed to CQC . There are many tactics that one can use to maximize their potential and limit their vulnerability . That's the beauty of this game , their is NO ONE specific type of play style but if you keep taking away content that's exactly what will happen . You people are killing the game and the fun factor ... oh yeah , you people already say that it's not fun but that might just be for you , don't ruin it for the rest of us . So, what you're saying is that it's a very tactic decision when half a team are noobs in the mountains trying to snipe, not helping their team at all. Because that's the only chance they have to "compete". I have an alt with much less SP than my main. I'm telling you, i tried different weapons not to get closer to veterans. Tried the SCR, the Laser... there's no much of a point. I try to be supportive, logi lovin' and stuff.... Not possible when the other team is upon you killing everyone included you. A whole team can't be supportive when there's no one to support. But that's also a matchmaking problem that also needs to be addressed, but not here. {:)}{3GÇó>
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 40	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:00:00 - [50] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: the other PLAYER. One player can kill faster than the other..player... Facepalm and with a shield extender one player can survive longer than the other... Damn seriously. To obtain gank one must sacrifice tank. Are you even paying attention at all? Yeah, to obtain gank one must sacrifice tank, i understand that, SO WHAT?!!!! Please understand my point: A shield extender, three shield extenders, don't make you survive any longer to this outrageous ammount of damage. Can't you just accept that this is a reality? It IS a fact.

JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 40	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:04:00 - [51] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. Finally! Thanks for passing by and leaving a reasonable opinion on the subject. Reasonable right after they reduce the amount of HP shield extenders provide. Since that is what you are talking about doing to the damage mods. WHAT is your problem with shield extenders? DUDE, in which way are they so advantaged against damage mods?! you armor tank, let them shield tank. Fight differently, you said it yourself! So now it turns out that you don't support different play styles, i don't get it man. Are you just trolling here?
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:04:00 - [52] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: the other PLAYER. One player can kill faster than the other..player... Facepalm and with a shield extender one player can survive longer than the other... Damn seriously. To obtain gank one must sacrifice tank. Are you even paying attention at all? Yeah, to obtain gank one must sacrifice tank, i understand that, SO WHAT?!!!! Please understand my point: A shield extender, three shield extenders, don't make you survive any longer to this outrageous ammount of damage. Can't you just accept that this is a reality? It IS a fact. No it is not a fact, and, in fact, it has been tested in game and shield extenders actually beat damage mods in TTK. Now quite talking unfounded BS and calling it fact. {:)}{3GÇó>
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 141	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:05:00 - [53] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Theex 1661 wrote: Hello. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY. A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!! The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots? Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pied. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing like 0/15 up to 4/30). I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay. I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again... Greetings Theex I'm so tired of people using the " new player experience " as an excuse for radical changes . Look at what you said about the AR comparison and think about it next time . Damage mods are suppose to increase the damage output of that said weapon that it is applied to even more so if it's an advanced weapon , that's just one tier below . The Duvolle without the mod is at a disadvantage , of course and that argument isn't even valid . I'm a " New " player and one should learn who they are up against and adapt to their adversary . If you see top tier players and you are not top tier then you have to play more of a support role . If your new your not loosing because of damage mods , your loosing because your being out skilled and out classed and most of the time your strategies are weak and flawed . you cant stand toe to toe with anyone ( at least you shouldn't ) strafing and movement is necessary . If your a weaker player then your aim should be to outrange your opponent , meaning : finding weapons that you can deal death blows from longer distances so your not exposed to CQC . There are many tactics that one can use to maximize their potential and limit their vulnerability . That's the beauty of this game , their is NO ONE specific type of play style but if you keep taking away content that's exactly what will happen . You people are killing the game and the fun factor ... oh yeah , you people already say that it's not fun but that might just be for you , don't ruin it for the rest of us . So, what you're saying is that it's a very tactic decision when half a team are noobs in the mountains trying to snipe, not helping their team at all. Because that's the only chance they have to "compete". I have an alt with much less SP than my main. I'm telling you, i tried different weapons not to get closer to veterans. Tried the SCR, the Laser... there's no much of a point. I try to be supportive, logi lovin' and stuff.... Not possible when the other team is upon you killing everyone included you. A whole team can't be supportive when there's no one to support. But that's also a matchmaking problem that also needs to be addressed, but not here. If that's what you got out of what I said then it is what it is . There are many long range weapons to choose from ( another beautiful thing about this game ) and everyone cant snipe . Maybe your attempts need to be worked upon and honed to become more stable and viable . I'm no guru nor do I know how YOU play but I do understand how I play so what works for some doesn't and won't work for all . We are all different but that no excuse to place limits on someone because your not as good in a area than someone else is . Now that's unfair and bias and also admitting weakness . I gave examples not meaning for all because who am I to tell how EVERYONE WHO IS NEW should play , now don't insult me ... all I can and was doing was giving examples . You know this just might be a case where neither one of us is right completely and neither one of us is wrong in general . All I can say is to each is own and learn your strengths and build on them and try to eliminate your weaknesses or at least limit them . Don't punish others for your flaws . " BANE** " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:06:00 - [54] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. Finally! Thanks for passing by and leaving a reasonable opinion on the subject. Reasonable right after they reduce the amount of HP shield extenders provide. Since that is what you are talking about doing to the damage mods. WHAT is your problem with shield extenders? DUDE, in which way are they so advantaged against damage mods?! you armor tank, let them shield tank. Fight differently, you said it yourself! So now it turns out that you don't support different play styles, i don't get it man. Are you just trolling here? That one totally went over your head, by about a mile, didn't it {:)}{3GÇó>
JP Acuna WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente 40	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:09:00 - [55] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Removal of damage mods is out of the question. Increasing stacking penalties seems ok but not practical considering the effect it has on all other modules such as biotics, Shields, electronic, etc. this will require too much rebalancing to make it work. A better solution is to tweak the damage mods individually to have less bonus towards damage. Either that or increase their CPU PG usage. Finally! Thanks for passing by and leaving a reasonable opinion on the subject. Reasonable right after they reduce the amount of HP shield extenders provide. Since that is what you are talking about doing to the damage mods. WHAT is your problem with shield extenders? DUDE, in which way are they so advantaged against damage mods?! you armor tank, let them shield tank. Fight differently, you said it yourself! So now it turns out that you don't support different play styles, i don't get it man. Are you just trolling here? That one totally went over your head, by about a mile, didn't it yeah, you're so complex and sharp, too much for me.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2524	Posted - 2013.11.30 06:46:00 - [56] - Quote Remove them, please and thank you. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 385	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:05:00 - [57] - Quote Son-Of A-Gun wrote: No it is not a fact, and, in fact, it has been tested in game and shield extenders actually beat damage mods in TTK. Now quite talking unfounded BS and calling it fact. What methods were utilized in the testing of shields vs. damage mods? Was it tested as two people representing "shields" and "damage" stood in-front of each other, unloading into each others chest? Or were actual in-game tactics used, like flanking, stealth-ish maneuvers, strafing, jumping, cover, etc... ? What weapons were used? Just rifles? Plasma cannons? All of them? What distances were used between subjects? All in optimal range? Effective range? Both? Was it tested at all three levels, standard, advanced, and prototype? What about cross tiers? Adv. vs Proto, etc... What suits? Medium frames? All four classes? Were the tests strictly 1:1? or were various battlefield scenarios tested? I have looked for the testing methods of shields vs. damage, but my searches have come up inconclusive (admittedly, I have never been good at searching for very specific items). I see people saying it has been tested, but I have absolutely no way of knowing the validity or the depth of the tests.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 438	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:36:00 - [58] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: No it is not a fact, and, in fact, it has been tested in game and shield extenders actually beat damage mods in TTK. Now quite talking unfounded BS and calling it fact. What methods were utilized in the testing of shields vs. damage mods? Was it tested as two people representing "shields" and "damage" stood in-front of each other, unloading into each others chest? Or were actual in-game tactics used, like flanking, stealth-ish maneuvers, strafing, jumping, cover, etc... ? What weapons were used? Just rifles? Plasma cannons? All of them? What distances were used between subjects? All in optimal range? Effective range? Both? Was it tested at all three levels, standard, advanced, and prototype? What about cross tiers? Adv. vs Proto, etc... What suits? Medium frames? All four classes? Were the tests strictly 1:1? or were various battlefield scenarios tested? I have looked for the testing methods of shields vs. damage, but my searches have come up inconclusive (admittedly, I have never been good at searching for very specific items). I see people saying it has been tested, but I have absolutely no way of knowing the validity or the depth of the tests. I don't remember every detail of the test, but I remember reading the thread and being satisfied by their method and results. From what I remember it was this: "What methods were utilized in the testing of shields vs. damage mods?" "What distances were used between subjects? All in optimal range? Effective range? Both?" Optimal "What weapons were used? Just rifles? Plasma cannons? All of them?" Gal AR "Was it tested at all three levels, standard, advanced, and prototype? What about cross tiers? Adv. vs Proto, etc..." Don't remember What suits? Medium frames? All four classes? Don't remember. If you are unsatisfied there is a very simple solution: set up your own test. It is not something that is overly dificult to do. {:)}{3GÇó>
HYENAKILLER X TEAM SHINOBI 352	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:42:00 - [59] - Quote Damage mods require skill. You sacrice sheilds and pg/cpu that could go towards armor and better weapons. Lots of guys do not even use them and play well. You are welcome for my leadership
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 1055	Posted - 2013.11.30 07:57:00 - [60] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Son-Of A-Gun wrote: "And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor." Only until the other racial weapons come out. facepalm terrible argument. "Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before." Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended. "And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits." Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it. "Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better." One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part. You don't get this do you? A suit stacked with shield extenders will kill a suit stacked with damage mods faster than the damage mod stacked suit will kill it if both people begin shooting at the exact same time. Damage mods work both ways, it lowers the TTK for both parties roughly equally because the damage mod user is sacrificing their shields. Damage mods are in now way better than shield extenders and it is just a different play style. They are in fact worse than extenders because the have stacking penalties. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Level 1 Forum Warrior The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5623	Posted - 2013.11.30 09:02:00 - [61] - Quote This would reduce high slots to shield tanking only. Well, unless the tank type with the movement speed reduction is expected to fit melee damage modifiers... Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Saoa Scum Judge Mercenaries 25	Posted - 2013.11.30 10:22:00 - [62] - Quote My opinion: do NOT remove dmg mods, instead remove that 10% dmg buff ( on AR and SCR only ) all weapons got a year ago and increase stacking penalty There...problem solved. Now to the guy who stated the brickarmor tanking combined with insane dps is the gallente way and that caldari way is to hit and run tactic with literally no dps, are you hearing yourself? You cant be serious.
8213 BIG BAD W0LVES 882	Posted - 2013.11.30 10:30:00 - [63] - Quote Like all things in life, youget used to and adapt. I'm used to the faster TTK, so to go back would be a shock to my system all over again...
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect 1201	Posted - 2013.11.30 11:22:00 - [64] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Hi all In the last months we've seen and experienced a lot of kills/deaths by high RoF weapons such as ARs and SCRs (plus others, maybe) in alarming ways, which has lead to the typical 'Nerf' discussion, but i think we could address this situation from a new (?) and different angle. This is not the same game it was back in 1.3. With the new TTK, do we really need damage modifiers? A bit extra damage is always welcome, but why not just content with Proficiency skill for the weapons of your choice? Shooting a damage-modded advanced or prototype weapon (PLUS proficiency) gives you a ridiculous advantage over others who have to shoot a lot longer to kill. You can shoot AND take damage while the other guy has to shoot more than you without the option to take any shots because he dies instantly. Right now i see it as absurd as having shield/armor hardeners for dropsuits (don't even think about it!). Doesn't make sense, It's a feature that belongs to a past where gameplay was entirely different. My suggestion: remove damage mods from the game. Keep proficiency skill bonus. Now, your thoughts... The damage mods should be on a system where you Customize your weapon and not on the suit itself. for instance this could go like Complex Damage Mod: +10% damage for weapon, -10% Clip Capacity, +1 Weapon Kick and the gun itself has at proto level the same amount of high & low slots like a suit. Edit: chances are if i dont run 2 or 3 damage mods myself, ill be unable to down people that run Armor Logis with 3 damage mods, its an easy equasion really, if skill level aprox the same and both use the same damage mods, the one with the most health wins every time. Now remove damage mods from one person and he will lose every encounter, right now damage mods are not a choice on a suit, they are needed. Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
CharCharOdell 1703	Posted - 2013.11.30 12:52:00 - [65] - Quote QQQQQQQQQQQQQQ Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition


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