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JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
34
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Posted - 2013.11.30 01:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all
In the last months we've seen and experienced a lot of kills/deaths by high RoF weapons such as ARs and SCRs (plus others, maybe) in alarming ways, which has lead to the typical 'Nerf' discussion, but i think we could address this situation from a new (?) and different angle.
This is not the same game it was back in 1.3. With the new TTK, do we really need damage modifiers?
A bit extra damage is always welcome, but why not just content with Proficiency skill for the weapons of your choice?
Shooting a damage-modded advanced or prototype weapon (PLUS proficiency) gives you a ridiculous advantage over others who have to shoot a lot longer to kill. You can shoot AND take damage while the other guy has to shoot more than you without the option to take any shots because he dies instantly.
Right now i see it as absurd as having shield/armor hardeners for dropsuits (don't even think about it!). Doesn't make sense, It's a feature that belongs to a past where gameplay was entirely different.
My suggestion: remove damage mods from the game. Keep proficiency skill bonus.
Now, your thoughts... |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3093
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges. |
Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
50
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont agree with removing the damage mods, a simple solution is much better than outright removing them. Modify the stacking penalty to an increasing 33% for each additional mod. So that your first is 100% efficient. The second is 67% the third is 34% and if you stack 4 the 4th would be 1% efficient. Simple and clean.
Dedicated scout. Because the suit is underpowered. Imagine the good ones when we get buffed people ;)
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Justin Tymes
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
524
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't agree with removing them, but they do need to be toned down. The first Complex damage mod should boost by 7% not 10%. |
JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
35
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges.
There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth.
There's another nice one. |
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
286
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit.
Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
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Fire of Prometheus
DUST University Ivy League
1849
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes please!!!!
"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
I'll take your Iskies
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3095
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. ^ This |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
603
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
go for it
I dont use them
SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
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JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
35
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:zibathy numbertwo wrote:OR, you could remove the +10% damage to every weapon that they added almost a year ago. That would do it. Removing damage mods would only make more people brick fit. ^ This
I think there must be a plan behind the TTK change. Removing that 10% would mean going back in time. I'm not talking about nerfing damage, only about eliminating excessive inequities while killing. Only having proficiency bonus would balance things a bit IMO. |
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Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
2393
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
We already have few enough high modules to choose from as it is, let's try not to remove anymore content. Like zibathy said, just take that 10% damage bonus off of all the weapons.
No, I am not CCP Logibro.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
433
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module.
You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough ****. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods.
What you guys are talking about with this bull****, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head.
Now quit your *****ing and get gud scrubs.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Theex 1661
Gummibaerenbande 514
20
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hello.
My personal opinion is, that they should be removed for infantery completly. The TTK is way to high at the moment and the damage mods are a big part of the cause why.. I dont know about that dubious 10% damage buff, but i think if there were no more damage mods in this game anymore, the TTK would incrase and it would take a lot more skill just to play with the basic damage output combained with the personal weapon proficiany. It would make it easier for beginners to get into the game,.. and STAY.
A basic AR with proficiancy level 5 and two complex damage mods does more damage than an proto AR (duvolle) with proficiancy level 5 but without damage mods!! And a advanced AR (gek 38) with prof 5, but with only one complex damage mod, beats that same duvolle too!!
The only poeple that benefit from this are proto assaults and logis. They have the high slots so they can stack two damage mods and still have high ehp. But whats about the other role specific players and people who dont want to use damage mods because they like to have the benefits from putting in more tactical modules in that slots?
Using those high slots to get more hp or to equip more advanced tactical modules is obsolete if a damage mod using player kills you under one second. The range is another aspect. As your damage increases, you deal more damage even over ridiculous ranges.
Over all, for me, and a few people i talked to about this topic, it makes no fun at all if there are players like this on the field. I would like to have that challenge, but mostly im just pi**ed. But we play for a while now and can deal with it. The new player would most likely quit the game because he has absolutly no chance (according to what i see every day, newberries playing 0-4/15-30).
I can understand why CCP put damage mods in this game and that they are a part of it. So they probably would never be removed. But at least i hope that they are overworking them. In my opinion, making the stacking penalties higher and e.g. reducing the values to 2% / 4% / 7% (basic / adv / pro) would be an important step to improve the gameplay.
I'd like the game to be more (personal) skill based and competitive again...
Greetings Theex |
JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
37
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module.
You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough ****. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods.
What you guys are talking about with this bull****, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head.
Now quit your *****ing and get gud scrubs.
Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs.
But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3099
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:We already have few enough high modules to choose from as it is, let's try not to remove anymore content. Like zibathy said, just take that 10% damage bonus off of all the weapons. exactly, a total of 6 high slot modules (half of them are for shields ) compared to 12 low slot modules and I'm probably missing even more modules for the highs. |
Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
434
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module.
You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough ****. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods.
What you guys are talking about with this bull****, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head.
Now quit your *****ing and get gud scrubs. Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs. But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us.
No dude they use regulators/recharger, or at least they should be, because their suits are geared to this play style. The have a low shield regen time and high shield base HP. If your not you're ding it wrong.
And what are the Gallente supposed to use? They have the worst shild stats in the game. How the hell is it supposed to be expected that it is fair for the Gal to only have shield mods to rely on. It is not in the slightest bit fair at all.
The simple fact is, this game's racial classes are set up to function in very specific ways. And removing damage mods or nerfing them would ruin that dynamic, as it is that the shields extenders and damage mods seem to have been balanced with eachother in mind. If you take two player with the same suit and put a damage mod on one and a shield extender on the other, using the same gun, the drop into a match on opposit teams, find eachother, then both stand still and start firing at eachother at exactly the same time, the person with the shield extenders will win but just barly. The shield extender damage mod dynamic is balanced.
If your problem is with TTK, there is no reason to go asking for a fix that completely destroys an entire racial play style. Ask for a reduction in overal weapon damage output or for all of the suits to have they're base HP buffed.
Or perhapse that isn't the problem at all maybe you just suck and need something to blame your suck on.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
37
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:If they change/remove damage mods, then they also need to change remove the shield regulators and move CPU chips to be a high slots module.
You guys don't seem to understand that these are the racial tradeoffs here. You went Caldari, they have a specific play style, and that play style doesn't normally include damage mods, so tough ****. I'm a Gallente and the Gal play style depends on damage mods.
What you guys are talking about with this bull****, is nerfing or just completely ruining an entire racial class here. I mean come on use ya friken head.
Now quit your *****ing and get gud scrubs. Yeah, i'd always hoped you could use PG/CPU upgrades in either low or high depending on your needs. But hey i'm a Gallente too and have weapon upgrades lvl5, and i don't think this would ruin me at all. Actually I think that races with more high slots are more dependant on damage mods than us. No dude they use regulators/recharger, or at least they should be, because their suits are geared to this play style. They have a low shield regen time and high shield base HP. If your not you're ding it wrong. And what are the Gallente supposed to use? They have the worst shild stats in the game. How the hell is it supposed to be expected that it is fair for the Gal to only have shied mods to rely on. It is not in the slightest bit fair at all. The simple fact is, this game's racial classes are set up to function in very specific ways. And removing damage mods or nerfing them would ruin that dynamic, as it is that the shields extenders and damage mods seem to have been balanced with eachother in mind. If you take two player with the same suit and put a damage mod on one and a shield extender on the other, using the same gun, the drop into a match on opposit teams, find eachother, then both stand still and start firing at eachother at exactly the same time, the person with the shield extenders will win but just barly. The shield extender damage mod dynamic is balanced. If your problem is with TTK, there is no reason to go asking for a fix that completely destroys an entire racial play style. Ask for a reduction in overal weapon damage output or for all of the suits to have they're base HP buffed. Or perhapse that isn't the problem at all maybe you just suck and need something to blame your suck on.
Why so many agression dude.
And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor. Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before.
And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits.
Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better. |
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
635
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Posted - 2013.11.30 03:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
This is a moronic solution. What makes this game interesting is that you have to weigh the costs and bebefits of having more EHP vs more DPS or more utility. Removing the tradeoffs and suit variety is moronic. Just nerf base DPS on the problem weapons, it's a much smarter way to increase the TTK.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
434
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
"And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor."
Only until the other racial weapons come out. *facepalm* terrible argument.
Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before."
Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended.
"And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits."
Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it.
Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better.[/quote]
One play style is meant to be a fast it and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8088
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 04:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Keep damage mods since you have to equip them. Remove proficiency and re-balance every weapon so we don't have guns that are good at all tiers while others are only good at prototype. Having a flat 15% damage bonus without giving anything up on a fitting makes the game SP > Skill instead of the other way around. You want gank? You should have to give up some tank.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
434
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ.
This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2010
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think a player should be able to make a choice between leaning offensive or defensive in their suit fittings. Damage modules are the one item that adjusts a suit towards offense. Others could be added that focus on additional capabilities other than outright damage.
The upcoming changes to vehicles are going to focus on brief periods of highly effective offensive and defensive capabilities. I can see making infantry damage modules something you activate and then have a cool down. When you are ready to assault you turn it on knowing that when it runs out you better finish the fight or prepare to take cover and wait out the recharge.
// Logistics / Scout / Dropship Crash Tester // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
37
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:"And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor."
Only until the other racial weapons come out. *facepalm* terrible argument.
"Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before."
Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended.
"And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits."
Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it.
"Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better."
One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt.
You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part.
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Son-Of A-Gun
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
434
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:"And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor."
Only until the other racial weapons come out. *facepalm* terrible argument.
"Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before."
Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended.
"And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits."
Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it.
"Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better."
One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part. But I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about so...
And I'll be ok with the removal of damage mods when you're ok with the removal of shield extenders, because it nullifies diferent play styles and It's just ridiculous that one player kills another with them.
If you have a proble with TTK then address that problem. But leave damage mods and their related play mechanics out of it.
{:)}{3GÇó>
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
510
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
By your logic, every Caldari should be running 4 damage mods. Raise your hand if you do that routinely?...
Hmm, nobody. Why? Because damage mods are there for armor tankers who have nothing else to put there. Now, if you changed armor reps to highs or created a new module like the shield regulator, then fine, but otherwise you hurt the armor tankers too much.
Also: damage mods are just not that amazing. IMO there's no benefit to the 3rd one over a complex shield module (unless you are sniping I guess), especially in a shield-tanking race's suit.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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CharCharOdell
1699
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
So then all armor tanks can do is omni tank? No absolutely not. What makes more sense is removing damage skills from them just like they did for tanks.
There are four main builds: Shields/Speed Shields/Armor DPS/speed DPS/armor
Removing damage mods removes a huge amount of customizations.
Weapon passive skills should never be anything to do with ROF or DMG. Bringing back the old sharpshooter skillay be the best alternative. Or perhaps removing the weapon proficiency skill completely and leaving only the operation, and then the other skills as they are.
Fact is: Minmitar and gallente builds are supposed to be DMG mods in high slots. Removing these makes both of them pointless, as gallente would be fit like Amarr are supposed to and MN would have to copy Caldari; neither would be as good as their specialized (for that build) counterparts.
Also, this QQ by the OP is directed at the gallente logi with ARs stacking damage mods and plates. Did it ever occur to you that their range is getting nerfed and you'll be able to kill them with literally any other rifle? Challenge weapons are supposed to out DPS everything else at short range. Also keep in mind that the logi will probably be getting nerfed across the board in some way or another, so this problem you are having is part of a lack of content, bug also your stupidity to try closing with a gallente build and thinking you have a chance. The only weapons who can take gallente builds are scout shotguns and mass drivers (both when using heavy cover to exploit their enemy).
#caldarigirlsdoitbetter
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Seigfried Warheit
The Neutral Zone
56
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:
Removing damage mods removes a huge amount of customizations.
Weapon passive skills should never be anything to do with ROF or DMG. Bringing back the old sharpshooter skillay be the best alternative. Or perhaps removing the weapon proficiency skill completely and leaving only the operation, and then the other skills as they are.
Yes pls! This makes the most sense..I was at first to get rid of damage mods cause I hated them dearly but Ill admit I was blinded with rage. I like this solution better and it makes sense. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
138
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Posted - 2013.11.30 04:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:The true measure of a man is not how he behaves in moments of comfort and convenience but how he stands at times of controversy and challenges. There is no greatness where there is no simplicity, goodness and truth. There's another nice one.
Life is not simple when dealing with Human Beings .
Don't agree with elimination of damage mods . Just an attempt of a quick fix for something that should be well thought out and addressed .
Even Satan sees goodness and truth in his actions .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2013.11.30 05:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:And the reason I am upset is because you guys are trying to completely ruin this game with your moronic bull**** QQ.
This game has already been decimated enough by ridiculous, terribly thought out, QQ already. Enough is enough this is where I draw the damn line.
Hear ...Hear ( * stands and claps loudly * ) this needs to stop . Another case of constant crying from and by people who can't handle customization . I think their goal is to eliminate any choice in play style so everyone will walk around with the same suits and the same mods in their fits . This is PLAIN to see .
It's about to happen to tanks and let's see how much fun the vehicle users will have . Everyone will have different tanks but the same fits ( boring ) , the only differences will be in the turrets and you will see people with like turrets running the same fits as well .
Watch and see . Some people don't like originality .
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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JP Acuna
WarLegendarios Amenaza Inminente
38
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Posted - 2013.11.30 05:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Son-Of A-Gun wrote:JP Acuna wrote:Son-Of A-Gun wrote:"And you're wrong: most primary weapons have more effects on shields than armor."
Only until the other racial weapons come out. *facepalm* terrible argument.
"Shields are weaker than armor, shield extenders offer less HP than armor, so an armor tanking suit with damage mods will destroy a shield tanker before."
Armor also has NO natural regen and speed penalties. functioning as intended.
"And IT'S NOT ABOUT TTK, i'll say it again, it's about INEQUITIES in damage output between players. Especially with proto suits against lower tier suits."
Tires are a fact of this game, they arn't going anywhere. Deal with it.
"Yes, they're different play styles, which is awesome, but why should one crush the other in every situation, at all ranges, in all maps, etc...? You should tank differently, move and attack differently, NOT kill faster and better."
One play style is meant to be a fast hit and run play style with fast regen. The other is supposed to be a stand and deliver play style. Maybe you just suck or don't understand how to play the former described play style (since it takes a little brains to do). I don't seem to have any proble with it on my Cal alt. You already have 3 tiers for weapons plus a proficiency skill, i'm perfectly ok with that. But It's just ridiculous that one player kills another within a second. It nullifies different "play styles". I see your point, but you still don't get that part. But I don't expect you to understand what I am talking about so... And I'll be ok with the removal of damage mods when you're ok with the removal of shield extenders, because it nullifies diferent play styles and It's just ridiculous that one player kills another with them. If you have a proble with TTK then address that problem. But leave damage mods and their related play mechanics out of it.
Why would you edit the ending of my post in your quote? weird stuff, i'm not as offensive as you, sir. AND-I-DON'T-HAVE-A-PROBLEM-WITH-TTK. Damn! didn't i make that clear enough already? how many times do i have to say that, jeeezzz. |
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