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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4042
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:This will be the change that killed the game.
I'm gone if they make logi suits support only. No threat or QQ. I just won't play.
This will be the nail in the coffin. Then all the Eve nerds can sit around and jerk off with spreadsheets until there isn't enough income to justify development. Maybe Dust will just turn into a mini game for securing PI locations.
I would like to note that in all of the PC matches I played, including the match my corp fought for you, both the enemy and our team had mostly logis, with like one heavy on each side, a tank and maybe one or two assaults.
Do you not see the problem here?
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
270
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:All I care is how / if they are going to keep the Amarr logi as an front line support as is the suits description. Besides that the logi getting a change is nothing surprising or even new. The news is that logi suit will be less of a one man army (logi/slayer). When did something so old turn new? Changes to logi suits have been discussed for a long time now unless my memory totally fails me. I just hope they won't over do these changes. Changes have been discussed by players previously, yes. CCP has now highlighted that this is an issue in the game. There is quite a difference.
The same happened with the LR, the Flaylock and the Tac AR, and I would not say those are fine now...CCP has a tendancy of overdoing chnages in one or the other direction. |
calvin b
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1013
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:50:00 -
[63] - Quote
All I can say is I can wait. I am fed up of Logi Proto's, running( enter FOTM) ,with core grenades, while sitting on rep hives, and having more EhP than an assault. If it takes a few months so be it. Those who did not want a respec, but after hearing the news of this and wants one should not get one for being such DCKS.
Do not eat the yellow snow
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Hecarim Van Hohen
Knights of Eternal Darkness
260
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:52:00 -
[64] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:All I care is how / if they are going to keep the Amarr logi as an front line support as is the suits description. Besides that the logi getting a change is nothing surprising or even new. The news is that logi suit will be less of a one man army (logi/slayer). When did something so old turn new? Changes to logi suits have been discussed for a long time now unless my memory totally fails me. I just hope they won't over do these changes. Changes have been discussed by players previously, yes. CCP has now highlighted that this is an issue in the game. There is quite a difference. The same happened with the LR, the Flaylock and the Tac AR, and I would not say those are fine now...CCP has a tendancy of overdoing chnages in one or the other direction. Sad but true but I'll have to keep on hoping they won't over do it this time :D
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1055
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
I have little faith that CCP will do this right because of past changes and the overall design of logi's to begin with.
Why are Logi's better slayers than Assaults? - More PG/CPU to fit more proto gear - More slots for tank/damange mods
The Logi suit is supposed to be a rework of the medium frame correct? So why is it better in almost every regard? Its only negatives are speed, slightly less base EHP and the lack of a sidearm. Its positives are more H/L slots, more equipment slots, more PG/CPU and better base profile skills.
PRO Assault Min - H/L = 5/2, 1 x L, 1 x S, 1 x G, 1 x E (Base CPU/PG = 320/64) PRO Logistics Min - H/L = 4/4, 1 x L, 0 x S, 1 x G, 4 x E (Base CPU/PG = 390/70)
The Logi gets +1 H/L, -1 S, +3 E, +70 CPU and +6 PG
The whole idea of a Logi is that it is trading out its frontline ability for a support role so there is no reason it should have more all around than an Assault since its supposed to be a reworked medium frame.
I am by no means a game designer but this is how I would do it.
Min Pro Medium Frame - H/L - change to 4/3 L - Stay same S - Stay same G - Stay same E - Stay same CPU/PG - 350/67 Profile - Between Assault and Logi Bonus - Racial Bonus
Min Pro Assault H/L - 5/2 - Adjusted to favor damage mods L - 1 - No change S - 1 - No change G - 1 - No change E - 1 - No change CPU/PG - 320/64 Profile - Lowered due to decreased CPU/PG (less electronic signature) Assault Skill - reduces CPU/PG cost for weapons but raises it for equipment Bonus - Racial Bonus
Min Pro Logi H/L - change to 3/3 (minus 1 slot over base medium for equipment) S - keep at 0 (minus 1 slot over base medium for equipment) Profile - Higher than Assaults due to higher PG/CPU (more electronic signature) Speed - Slower due to added equipment slot PG/CPU - Increased but at the cost of profile Logi General Skill - +1 HP armor rep per level, reduces CPU/PG cost for equipment but raises it for weapons. Racial Bonus
What I feel this game is lacking is true tradeoffs. The idea is that when you specialize you become better at one thing and worse at others right? I think that having a +/- would do that in that it increases the Logi's ability to use equipment but reduces their offensive capabilities.
My idea is that you start with a base medium suit that gets adjusted based upon roles. It doesnt get 'better' but rather different. Right now the only difference between a medium and an assault is the bonus and cost which is a little silly. There needs to be more of a feel of specialization in that you are sacrificing something to gain a proficiency in another.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
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dent 308
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2000
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Posted - 2013.11.26 13:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
Crazy Pills. Stop eating them. This sidearm only idea for logi has always been terrible. It remains a terrible idea, and I really hope we never have to find out exactly how terrible an idea it is.
Sidearm only logi means logibro is extinct.
Don't bother talking about that time you had fun with an SMG, the bigger picture is engagement ranges and sidearms don't have it.
I have been playing logi for about as long as the logi suit has existed and am flabbergasted that this terrible idea has persisted as long as it has.
mass driver haiku
blam blam blam blam blam blam load
ahhahahahah
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
621
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
dent 308 wrote:Crazy Pills. Stop eating them. This sidearm only idea for logi has always been terrible. It remains a terrible idea, and I really hope we never have to find out exactly how terrible an idea it is.
Sidearm only logi means logibro is extinct.
Don't bother talking about that time you had fun with an SMG, the bigger picture is engagement ranges and sidearms don't have it.
I have been playing logi for about as long as the logi suit has existed and am flabbergasted that this terrible idea has persisted as long as it has.
The main point of my post has nothing to do with the light weapon, it is the fact that CCP has highlighed that logis will not be playing as slayers when they fix it. Players already using logi as a logi or team force multiplier dont have to worry. It is the people abusing the suit that is going to suffer.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Chewie Parker
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
60
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:This will be the change that killed the game.
I'm gone if they make logi suits support only. No threat or QQ. I just won't play.
This will be the nail in the coffin. Then all the Eve nerds can sit around and jerk off with spreadsheets until there isn't enough income to justify development. Maybe Dust will just turn into a mini game for securing PI locations.
Logis are supposed to be a support unit only. Hence the term logistics. Christ almighty the entitlement is hilarious. What the hell did you think you were signing up for? At most you should have a sidearm and thats it. What you should be asking for are deployable turrets, barricade welding and other shenanigans that actually has to do with your class.
we are support units , we only carry 1 weapon, if your in a gun battle with a logi , you have 2 options of attack based on the weapon the said logi is carrying , if hes using an assult rifle , counter him with scrambler or laser , if hes got a lazer or scrambler , get up close and sort him out with your smg , the logi on the other hand has but the 1 option of attack/range and slower movement to boot. there is no sense of entitlement , im a min logi, prior to the introduction of feroscale plates and the movement penalty reduction on armour plating , i could not cross open ground without sever risk . and the only killer logi was the cal. when they nerfed that suit , most intelligent players wher like " don't nerf that , buff the others " , it made more sense(pluse a 1 slot reduction on the low side) here's a thought , why not give the logi a true purpose on the field , give us new game modes , with bridges to repair or destroy , bunkers doors road blocks and baricades to fix , things that have to be done to complete the mission , your right in that final piece , that would perk my interest . why not bring out another class or simply reintroduce the 2 slotted assault suit for the killer logi's . there are loads of options if we really think about it , this new one by CCP is not one of them . |
843-BANE
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
25
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
Damn, when CCP says something is "a fair way off" you KNOW it must be f*cking ages away. It looks like you logi slayers can keep your crutch for the time being!
Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F
Patron of War
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Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation
484
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm against being logi used as assaults. I just hope ccp won't ruin logis for actual logi players Ccp is famous for ruining and over nerfing stuff. Removing a high slot so that logi can't have 2-3 damage mods + tank? Sure do it. Forcing logisuit to fit sidearm only? You can go die in a fire. Don'expect to be revived. Cheers. |
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843-BANE
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
25
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:28:00 -
[71] - Quote
Regardless, Logis should NOT be slayers. At the current point in time it is absolutely 100% pointless to spec into a Gallente Assault, however I did so anyway.
Logistics as mentioned should have access to miniature deployable turrets, large shield barricades and the abilities to turn the tide in battle. I don't think they should be without weapon, but I think they should be a seperate class from assault otherwise there's just no point being assault. We're the front line guys, logis are the support. It seems as although Logis are the front line assaults with extra HP and more equipment, and the assaults are redundant.
Director // Ranking Officer // BurgezzE.T.F
Patron of War
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
623
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
843-BANE wrote:Regardless, Logis should NOT be slayers. At the current point in time it is absolutely 100% pointless to spec into a Gallente Assault, however I did so anyway.
Logistics as mentioned should have access to miniature deployable turrets, large shield barricades and the abilities to turn the tide in battle. I don't think they should be without weapon, but I think they should be a seperate class from assault otherwise there's just no point being assault. We're the front line guys, logis are the support. It seems as although Logis are the front line assaults with extra HP and more equipment, and the assaults are redundant.
Logi gain high AND low AND equipment slots AND CPU/PG compared to the basic frame. Only to lose a sidearm. Assault has the same slot layout as the basic one (I would happily lose my equipment slot for another high slot on my ck.0). This is why logis are broken and assaults are not. Too many increased parameters without any decrease in others.
Comparison:
Caldari logi ck.0 Light wep Grenade 5 High 4 Low 3 Equip
Caldari assault ck.0 Light wep Sidearm Grenade 4 High 3 Low 1 Equip
Disregarding the weapon slots and equipment, the logi has 5+4=9 low/high slots, assault has 3+4=7 low/high slots. If we sum up the total number of slots including equipment: logi => 5+4+3 = 12, assault => 3+4+1 = 8 (equal to basic frame ck.0).
Hmmmmmmm.. whoever cant see the problem with this, must not be able to comprehend basic algebra.
The real fix to ck.0 (as an example) is to make sure it gains for example 4 equip slots, but that the logi in total has 8 slots, like the basic frame ck.0.
Example future layout (logi ck.0) 3 high 2 low 4 equip Light weapon Grenade Higher base HP than basic frame
Example future layout (assault ck.0) 5 high 3 low 0 equip Light weapon Sidearm Grenade Higher base HP than basic frame
Hire me CCP, and I will rebalance your systems.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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IceStormers
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
89
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
im happy with any change that lets the logi be more support related but still able to survive
i do spend alot of time having run out of ammo to give out no uplinks to drop and at that time what is my role if i cant fight? i assume its run back and refit the suit again?
i would like to see support able to carry more equipment not in items but in quantity of those items and with increased nanites would also like to see the price of a fully fitting proto logi match a fully fit proto of another role
i would like to see proximity equipment so if i have a repper tool active if reps those around me without the need of finding them and aiming at them Could include with that hives so when people are near by they can get ammo / reps depending on what hive you carry, these would regen like depot hubs do
could even bring in a new set of weapons as support weapons, so give us a sidearm for killing and provide these support weapons main use would be EW, weaken the armor/shields of enemy, cause malfunctions in enemy weapons, sound waves to hurt enemies aiming, anti-nanites to steal their ammo, damage reduction with shield\magnetic bubbles the list is endless im sure
but most importantly i want to be wanted on the field at all times (so always having support role) and not come on the forums to see countless complaints of OP logi
I Support SP Rollover
Why is KB/M being ignored
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
2007
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:This will be the change that killed the game.
I'm gone if they make logi suits support only. No threat or QQ. I just won't play.
This will be the nail in the coffin. Then all the Eve nerds can sit around and jerk off with spreadsheets until there isn't enough income to justify development. Maybe Dust will just turn into a mini game for securing PI locations.
Logis are supposed to be a support unit only. Hence the term logistics. Christ almighty the entitlement is hilarious. What the hell did you think you were signing up for? At most you should have a sidearm and thats it. What you should be asking for are deployable turrets, barricade welding and other shenanigans that actually has to do with your class.
Well the old logi proto suit from beta was the 4x4x4 slot alignment that the Min Logi has now. So I guess I thought I was signing up for that. The logi class has been this way as long as I've played the game so I've allotted my 31 million SP accordingly.
The changes that everybody wants here could easily be solved by taking away the 10% weapon bonus given to all weapons and you could buff the assault, scout, and heavy suits with 2% per level.
You simply have too many logis out there right now. The range increase of weapons (with the introduction of the new weapons) are going to push the engagements further away so what are the logis going to do? Sit there with a rep tool on the range weapons as they poke their heads out? Throw some ammo down for them?
I don't think that sounds very fun.
Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
623
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Posted - 2013.11.26 14:57:00 -
[75] - Quote
IceStormers wrote:im happy with any change that lets the logi be more support related but still able to survive
i do spend alot of time having run out of ammo to give out no uplinks to drop and at that time what is my role if i cant fight? i assume its run back and refit the suit again?
i would like to see support able to carry more equipment not in items but in quantity of those items and with increased nanites would also like to see the price of a fully fitting proto logi match a fully fit proto of another role
i would like to see proximity equipment so if i have a repper tool active if reps those around me without the need of finding them and aiming at them Could include with that hives so when people are near by they can get ammo / reps depending on what hive you carry, these would regen like depot hubs do
could even bring in a new set of weapons as support weapons, so give us a sidearm for killing and provide these support weapons main use would be EW, weaken the armor/shields of enemy, cause malfunctions in enemy weapons, sound waves to hurt enemies aiming, anti-nanites to steal their ammo, damage reduction with shield\magnetic bubbles the list is endless im sure
but most importantly i want to be wanted on the field at all times (so always having support role) and not come on the forums to see countless complaints of OP logi
Caldari Logi could have a bonus to boost shield of friendly units in 10m proximity (add a small shield buffer).
Minmatar logi could have a movement speed buff to units in proximity.
Gallente logi could make all units in proximity sexier.
Amarr logi could boost damage of nearby units.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn
410
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
i support the idea of change bonus but the fear nerf to uselessness is always present
> Test Signature Please Ignore
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
221
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:49:00 -
[77] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:Sure fire way to tell whether or not you're getting a respec if/when this change (that we know nothing about) hits.
Is the skill tree being changed? No?
Then you're not getting a respec. Hell even if the skill tree is changed it dosen't look like we'll be getting any respec. By the looks of it we won't even get a respec in 1.7 where they are reworking all of the vehicle tree and removing several vehicles. Maybe this would be a good time to sway the mind of all infantry that is against a respec in 1.7. 1.7 runs the risk of being used as an example for when to give out respecs. Think about it if the complete reworking of all vehicles skills doesn't warrent a respec do you really think a small change only to the logi skill will? Get your respecs early so that you aren't stuck in a gimped suit. Push for a full respec in 1.7 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122530&find=unread
I can't tell if you're stupid, horribly misinformed, or are deliberately spreading misinformation to further your cause. In either case you're most certainly wrong as CCP Frame confirmed that a full vehicle respec is indeed what's going to be happening in 1.7 for all vehicle related (Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgrades, Turret) trees.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Karl Marx II
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
165
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
Tell me when roughly this is going to happen .. I was going to get a proto minmatar logi but if your going to nerf it then i wont bother wasting my SP seeing as I will never get it back so give me an ETA on when you plan on doing this .. not Soon TM an actual rough date
My Theme
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Zekain K
Expert Intervention Caldari State
598
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
And this is why I haven't speced into any of the racial suits. :/
CALDARI MASTER RACE
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CharCharOdell
1691
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
i demand respec. most players ARE slayer logis.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
625
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:And this is why I haven't speced into any of the racial suits. :/
...because the game is a complete fail right now?
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3081
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:16:00 -
[82] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
If "Soon" can be a year or more away, does that mean "fair way off" is like.... 2017?
Join my cult.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
625
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future. If "Soon" can be a year or more away, does that mean "fair way off" is like.... 2017?
Wasnt CCP supposed to be 'focused' this year?
I think the acceptable answer for dropsuit skill tree (dropsuit role) full revamp would be: no later than next expansion.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8010
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
We all knew since 1.3 that the 1HP/s bonus was a placeholder until they could fix the tagging system. It was in the Dev blog when the CaLogi got nerfed and the Amarr got buffed. This isn't anything new if you knew how to read.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
626
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:We all knew since 1.3 that the 1HP/s bonus was a placeholder until they could fix the tagging system. It was in the Dev blog when the CaLogi got nerfed and the Amarr got buffed. This isn't anything new if you knew how to read.
Yep, I read it. New info is that logis will not be as good at slaying as heavies, assaults and scouts. You looking forward to using a sidearm? I heard the SMG is good....
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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Anarchide
Greedy Bastards
1553
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:39:00 -
[86] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Zekain K wrote:And this is why I haven't speced into any of the racial suits. :/ ...because the game is a complete fail right now? ***D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D DOOM BREAKER!***
Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8010
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:48:00 -
[87] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Cosgar wrote:We all knew since 1.3 that the 1HP/s bonus was a placeholder until they could fix the tagging system. It was in the Dev blog when the CaLogi got nerfed and the Amarr got buffed. This isn't anything new if you knew how to read. Yep, I read it. New info is that logis will not be as good at slaying as heavies, assaults and scouts. You looking forward to using a sidearm? I heard the SMG is good.... There was nothing about sidearms, you're just rumor mongering. Also, I have an assault scrambler pistol. It's so good, assaults should be using it.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
329
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:I have pro gal logi and approve of this especially if they further enhance my abilities to provide support to the team. A fine logibro you are, and here I was thinking logibros have completely lost their way! Good on ya mate, I'm going back to my logi roots as well. |
Haerr
104
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:54:00 -
[89] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:Haerr wrote:Foundation Seldon wrote:Sure fire way to tell whether or not you're getting a respec if/when this change (that we know nothing about) hits.
Is the skill tree being changed? No?
Then you're not getting a respec. Hell even if the skill tree is changed it dosen't look like we'll be getting any respec. By the looks of it we won't even get a respec in 1.7 where they are reworking all of the vehicle tree and removing several vehicles. Maybe this would be a good time to sway the mind of all infantry that is against a respec in 1.7. 1.7 runs the risk of being used as an example for when to give out respecs. Think about it if the complete reworking of all vehicles skills doesn't warrent a respec do you really think a small change only to the logi skill will? Get your respecs early so that you aren't stuck in a gimped suit. Push for a full respec in 1.7 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122530&find=unread I can't tell if you're stupid, horribly misinformed, or are deliberately spreading misinformation to further your cause. In either case you're most certainly wrong as CCP Frame confirmed that a full vehicle respec is indeed what's going to be happening in 1.7 for all vehicle related (Vehicle Command, Vehicle Upgrades, Turret) trees.
Can't I be more than just one of those things? :/
A fair answer would be that I am very much annoyed, mostly about not having enough SPs into vehicles to get back in to a useful vehicle role after the respec in 1.7. You see they've changed the SP requirments quite a bit, something I doubt any one would have been able to predict.
But you know what? **** it, I'll just use the SPs I get back to get into a logi suit or two and one of the rifles.
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Sentient Archon
1344
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Posted - 2013.11.26 16:54:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:This is still a fair way off, so don't panic. We'll definitely be posting threads when we get closer at some point in the future.
Admit it;- you loved my idea !
The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
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