DUST Search - To the DUST community: Why don't I see more nerf threads for the Scrambler R...

Borne Velvalor wrote:

RevoL Frog wrote:

I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9

I actually looked at the stats of the enemies being killed. Most of the enemies were wearing militia and standard suits, with militia and standard guns.
Arkena was using a Gallente Logistics with 900 HP. 900 HP > 400 HP.
Arkena had a scanner. Knowing where everyone is > not knowing anything.
Arkena got several kills in a row with cooked Core Locus Grenades while camping a hive. I'd say that infinite OHKO grenades with a 15m diameter blast is more OP than Scrambler Rifles.
Arkena has Wiyrkomi Nanohives that heal 70 HP/S, plus 5 HP/S innate armor repair.

Arkena would've died multiple times without such a pronounced gear advantage. A couple of times the militia opponents dropped 500+ HP. To add further insult to injury, here come the Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohives. Let's say we swapped the Imperial for a Duvolle. What would happen? Maybe they'd get a few less kills against enemies out of range. Would going 40/0 against militia noobs really be any better? If you have scan intel, twice as much health, 75 HP/S regen, infinite ammo and damage mods with a proto weapon and Gallente suit, it's pretty hard to die.

Even with a standard Heavy suit with 2 Armor Repair modules and a GLU Tac AR, which is essentially a poor man's version with slightly longer range and no hives, I can post up 30+ kills and <3 deaths against a team of mostly standard and militia. During Black Eagle week, I went something like 40 to 2 strafing back and forth on a mushroom roof in Domination mowing down enemies going to capture a terminal because I had 1200 HP with 7 HP/S repair. I died twice, but only to damage mod snipers. It took 0 effort and had I used a proto sentinel with complex repairers, plates, mods, I probably could've went 49/0, too.

Now, the Scrambler Rifle is more OP than the AR in the right hands. I'd suggest a RoF nerf down to 500 to bring the DPS down to a little over 900 when the Duvolle hits 640. There's still an advantage in damage and range plus charge shots, but it makes it a little harder to just run at people and spasm the trigger.

EDIT: Also, most players cannot hit the RoF cap. I've seen a few that break the 400-500 range, and obviously turbo controllers can hit the cap, so a nerf would bring down the raw potential. Maybe a small hipfire spread increase would help, too.

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Himiko Kuronaga Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 2356	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:19:00 - [31] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Balance as a weapons range increases its dps decreases that is all, the HMG has high dps point blank, the duvolle which im not a fan of has lower dps but more range. Fine let it have that crazy dps but reduce the range you shouldnt be able to have everything in a weapon its just pointless. You don't have everything in that weapon. You CANNOT fight multiple opponents with it. You can with the AR. I don't know how this keeps slipping by you. If two people come at me from around the corner one at a time and i charge in anticipation, I will probably drop the first guy if i don't miss the charged shot. If I do miss the charged shot, I will die. If I succeed, the second guy will kill me, guaranteed, because my weapon will overheat if i continue firing. If they both come at me at the same time, I will die. If I am flanked, I will die. If I have an AR instead and scenario one plays out, I can potentially beat out the first guy, not have to worry about overheat, and then beat out the next guy. If scenario two plays out, well, its a much more uphill battle but again I don't have to worry about overheat. A slim chance is better than no chance.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 1016	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:25:00 - [32] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 I actually looked at the stats of the enemies being killed. Most of the enemies were wearing militia and standard suits, with militia and standard guns. Arkena was using a Gallente Logistics with 900 HP. 900 HP > 400 HP. Arkena had a scanner. Knowing where everyone is > not knowing anything. Arkena got several kills in a row with cooked Core Locus Grenades while camping a hive. I'd say that infinite OHKO grenades with a 15m diameter blast is more OP than Scrambler Rifles. Arkena has Wiyrkomi Nanohives that heal 70 HP/S, plus 5 HP/S innate armor repair. Arkena would've died multiple times without such a pronounced gear advantage. A couple of times the militia opponents dropped 500+ HP. To add further insult to injury, here come the Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohives. Let's say we swapped the Imperial for a Duvolle. What would happen? Maybe they'd get a few less kills against enemies out of range. Would going 40/0 against militia noobs really be any better? If you have scan intel, twice as much health, 75 HP/S regen, infinite ammo and damage mods with a proto weapon and Gallente suit, it's pretty hard to die. Even with a standard Heavy suit with 2 Armor Repair modules and a GLU Tac AR, which is essentially a poor man's version with slightly longer range and no hives, I can post up 30+ kills and <3 deaths against a team of mostly standard and militia. During Black Eagle week, I went something like 40 to 2 strafing back and forth on a mushroom roof in Domination mowing down enemies going to capture a terminal because I had 1200 HP with 7 HP/S repair. I died twice, but only to damage mod snipers. It took 0 effort and had I used a proto sentinel with complex repairers, plates, mods, I probably could've went 49/0, too. Now, the Scrambler Rifle is more OP than the AR in the right hands. I'd suggest a RoF nerf down to 500 to bring the DPS down to a little over 900 when the Duvolle hits 640. There's still an advantage in damage and range plus charge shots, but it makes it a little harder to just run at people and spasm the trigger. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 270	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:35:00 - [33] - Quote I've been using the ScR since it was released back in January, mostly the semi-auto, and honestly I think it's fine. However, sometimes I do feel it's hipfire can be a bit OP. That's all.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 260	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:58:00 - [34] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: I've been using the ScR since it was released back in January, mostly the semi-auto, and honestly I think it's fine. However, sometimes I do feel it's hipfire can be a bit OP. That's all. I guess a nerf to hipfire accuracy makes sense similar to the Tac AR hipfire nerf. Beeing that precise makes not so much sense for semi automedium to long range weapon.
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1997	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:00:00 - [35] - Quote Marvel at our Holy Tech Infidels! "The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire." Book of Exiles 1:3
Sylwester Dziewiecki 206	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:02:00 - [36] - Quote RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 WoW, - 910 of total HP(pretty much like heavy, but without immobility), - 4 different equipment items: a) that heal you, b) resupply you, c) give you advantage over enemy by knowing where he is hiding(pretty much like scout, but without just 200HP and 1e-slot), d) to all of this Nanite Injector so you can pick up friendly, and you know where heat of battle is. - Like to all this you would still need some grenades. Proto weapon is not primary problem here, logistic suit is, it's covers way too many roles. I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
LittleCuteBunny Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 138	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:03:00 - [37] - Quote CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 390	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:10:00 - [38] - Quote Far too much emphasis on "DPS". It's a generalized statistic that has no bearing on outside influences. example : I'm using a gun that has 5000 damage per shot. The gun overheats after firing a single shot, and becomes unusable for 10 minutes while it cools down. This gun has 5000 DPS. Can't really put that high DPS to use if it can't continuously fire every second.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 140	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:33:00 - [39] - Quote I hear people in here complaining about the meaning if DPS on a weapon with cylic, dynamic damage output due to mechanics. I have three things to note. 1. Burst DPS is superior - in any PVP based game burst is better than static DPS, it allows you to put down your opponent quickly, take less damage, and allow you to prevent opponents from having the ability to escape. 2. Burst allows better tactics - you can dodge in and out of complete cover and not lose potential dps from not constantly firing 3. Accuracy at all ranges especially hipfire shots are almost unerringly accurate. This is the PRIMARY weapon I die from, not ARs, SRs, LRs, MDs, SMGs, HMGs.
Zaria Min Deir Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 322	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:48:00 - [40] - Quote LittleCuteBunny wrote: CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass This. The point that the ScR has it's drawback of (supposedly) not being able to kill multiple enemies because of the overheat is lovely in theory, but when the overheat is so easy to ignore... Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Mordecai Sanguine What The French 146	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:58:00 - [41] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 WoW, - 910 of total HP(pretty much like heavy, but without immobility), - 4 different equipment items: a) that heal you, b) resupply you, c) give you advantage over enemy by knowing where he is hiding(pretty much like scout, but without just 200HP and 1e-slot), d) to all of this Nanite Injector so you can pick up friendly, and you know where heat of battle is. - Like to all this you would still need some grenades. Proto weapon is not primary problem here, logistic suit is, it's covers way too many roles. STOP SAYIN SHHHHIIIT...... FIRST : Heavies with same level than an Logi with 910ehp have 1500-2000 hp if he want. Secondly : He have Imperial SCR and lot of life because he have ****** equipements. Seriously i'm tired of people like you "Logistics is bad blah blah blah" Real Logi using it as intended are balanced it's not our fault if YOU noob assaults has come in logistics suits to not use it as intended. When fitting good equipements we can't make a good combat suits. So we are not overpowered. Exemple : My Amarr Logi suit. (The suit intended as a Combat Logi he's supposed to be the most powerful logi in combat) 89 PG. Fit equipement : Nanohive (Don't remember the name but takes 11/12PG.) Drop uplinks : 11PG Triage BDR-8 : 8 PG 30PG used for equipement. (And i didn't unlock my Proto repair tools) 59 PG left and i'm supposed to be the most powerful Logi suit ? HA!
Mordecai Sanguine What The French 146	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:59:00 - [42] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: LittleCuteBunny wrote: CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass This. The point that the ScR has it's drawback of (supposedly) not being able to kill multiple enemies because of the overheat is lovely in theory, but when the overheat is so easy to ignore... Are you kidding me ? Without Amarr assault suits it overheat in less than 8-9 shots...... Making you cannot run or do anything during 3sec (makes you die...)
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 472	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:03:00 - [43] - Quote Only a logi is OP claim on the second page? You guys are slacking...
xSir Campsalotx Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 78	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:04:00 - [44] - Quote exactly why i was pointing to how long the weapon could be fired if you read the above, the scrambler rifle in my eyes truly became OP after the auto aim after which missing shots is a lot less often. Yes a gun with 5000 damage gun that takes 10 min to recharge has a dps of 5000 but really how is this example anywhere near any of the guns in this game. Honestly c"mon keep your examples relevant. yes the emphasis is on dps but only in its positively correlation with time to kill. This game is not truly about skill its optimizing HP to damage output. Citing your own incompetence in support of a claim is not a valid defense and does nothing to detract from my point, but i digress it can be done i have done it and i will continue to do it. Regardless, if i can do it on an alt character of whom i play with occasionally im quite certain someone who fields the weapon to any degree of frequency can make a mastery out of it and bring about its full potential. I hate to be like this but your arguments are becoming lax without any sense of clear logic flow, citing outlandish and frivolous examples that have no bearing or base to them. Alas the wall is up and i am out.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1316	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:05:00 - [45] - Quote Following op's logic I should clearly be seeing more scrambler rifles than oh say, assault rifles "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 445	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:13:00 - [46] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 I actually looked at the stats of the enemies being killed. Most of the enemies were wearing militia and standard suits, with militia and standard guns. Arkena was using a Gallente Logistics with 900 HP. 900 HP > 400 HP. Arkena had a scanner. Knowing where everyone is > not knowing anything. Arkena got several kills in a row with cooked Core Locus Grenades while camping a hive. I'd say that infinite OHKO grenades with a 15m diameter blast is more OP than Scrambler Rifles. Arkena has Wiyrkomi Nanohives that heal 70 HP/S, plus 5 HP/S innate armor repair. Arkena would've died multiple times without such a pronounced gear advantage. A couple of times the militia opponents dropped 500+ HP. To add further insult to injury, here come the Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohives. Let's say we swapped the Imperial for a Duvolle. What would happen? Maybe they'd get a few less kills against enemies out of range. Would going 40/0 against militia noobs really be any better? If you have scan intel, twice as much health, 75 HP/S regen, infinite ammo and damage mods with a proto weapon and Gallente suit, it's pretty hard to die. Even with a standard Heavy suit with 2 Armor Repair modules and a GLU Tac AR, which is essentially a poor man's version with slightly longer range and no hives, I can post up 30+ kills and <3 deaths against a team of mostly standard and militia. During Black Eagle week, I went something like 40 to 2 strafing back and forth on a mushroom roof in Domination mowing down enemies going to capture a terminal because I had 1200 HP with 7 HP/S repair. I died twice, but only to damage mod snipers. It took 0 effort and had I used a proto sentinel with complex repairers, plates, mods, I probably could've went 49/0, too. Now, the Scrambler Rifle is more OP than the AR in the right hands. I'd suggest a RoF nerf down to 500 to bring the DPS down to a little over 900 when the Duvolle hits 640. There's still an advantage in damage and range plus charge shots, but it makes it a little harder to just run at people and spasm the trigger. EDIT: Also, most players cannot hit the RoF cap. I've seen a few that break the 400-500 range, and obviously turbo controllers can hit the cap, so a nerf would bring down the raw potential. Maybe a small hipfire spread increase would help, too. Yup, it's always "this person went 40/0, it must be the weapon." As a non-murder logi, I have a crap KDR and usually get less than 10 kills a game (avg game maybe 7/5 nowadays?). My best game ever in terms of kills was 25/3, a few weeks ago on Ashland domination. I got killed 3 times pretty quick trying to take the objective while the blueberries ran around in circles, hacked turrets far away from the battle, tried to shoot up at the protobears raining down nades and MD rounds, etc. So, I switched to a super-profile-damped A/1 suit, camped on a hill, and with a charge sniper prof 3 and 3 complex dmg mods proceeded to go 25/0 in the 5 minutes or so left in the battle and somehow we won on clones, I'm not sure how that happened but whatever. Was I suddenly OP? No, trust me, if I always went 26/0 and got 400k ISK sniping I would surely do it more often. There were just some stupid people who thought their proto suits made them invincible standing still on the pipes begging me to headshot them, and then inexplicably continued to spawn up there. (to be sure, they were mercilessly slaughtering blueberries that way so maybe it made sense to them, who knows). Regardless, I'm sure some aurum proto wearing tryhard who also couldn't believe they lost probably saw me on top of the board at 26/3 with 2500 WP or whatever and made one of those stupid rage threads about damage mods being OP some some crap. Experiences like this cloud peoples judgement and make what sounds like a compelling argument that really isn't based in fact. It's like a recall bias (or maybe availability bias is a better term) - you don't know much about the 5 guys you just killed, It's anyone's guess whether your victims had a imperial or std scrambler, or even an AR if you didn't get a good look. But you sure as hell get a big "you lose" screen every time you die telling you all about the person who got you. It's made worse by what it doesn't tell you, like if that person had prof 5, or about the other 2 guys who got some shots on you, or those triage hives, or that pesky logi with a rep tool around the corner you couldn't see. TL; DR. This QQ is all subjective and has little basis in fact. All rifles are currently OP, it's not the ScR. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 445	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:15:00 - [47] - Quote Oh, almost forgot. I'd support a reduction in RoF for the regular ScR, modded controllers or KBM macros are annoying. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 174	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:21:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: because bpo whining is more important. Whaaaaay more important.... Gÿé Syeven 514
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1358	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:21:00 - [49] - Quote The gun itself it OP. The users are such ******* scrubs that nobody cares. Cheeseburgers.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3962	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:31:00 - [50] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Gota disagree here. The scrambler is meant to do exactly this. It is a 1v1 superiority weapon with checks and balances that keep it from killing everybody at once like the TAC did. All fights in that video were picked intelligently, and it is the enemy teams fault for coming at him one at a time like an old kung fu movie. The TAC had no business doing that nonsense however. The AR is a medium to close range kill-everyone device. The TAC was meant to give some versatility to a weapon skill that was never intended as an broad-range dueling superiority weapon. It was abused to an extreme extent and had no checks or balances, thanks to the lack of overheat, it could solo the universe quite easily at any range it pleased. If a semi-auto weapon is incapable of 1v1 or range superiority, it has no real value. Actually, the SCR is capable of pulling off 18 shots before overheating, considering most of the people he killed there died in 3 shots... You get the idea :P Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3962	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:33:00 - [51] - Quote Your Absolut End wrote: yeah Scr must be soooo uber-op thats the reason why you see it as only used weapon in pc....... oh wait.... you dont see ot used in pc, its the ar you see all the time.... the scr has been like it is since it is released, I always could go 30+ in pubmatches with it. So is it now cool to #scramblerrage or what? goddamned hipsters..... Everytime an Ar user dies to another weapon its terrible Op and whatsoever. Because SCR requires good frame rate to nail shots. Something PC can't provide I myself would use it if it wasn't for that. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 839	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:33:00 - [52] - Quote Scheherazade VII wrote: the scrambler rifle is an absolute joke im going to use it so im not at a disadvantage to those that do. It destroys starter fits in 3 rounds which is half a second. it makes the AR TTK look like before they changed the TTK. Just stack damage mods and armour and anybody running less won't be able to mathematically take you down before you take them down. it really is the FOTM and needs more threads to be made about it. I won't stop QQ'ing until CCP realises it's destroying the game. it's the new invincibility mode crutch for scrubs who have no gun-game and need to compensate by making their SCR do 100 damage per shot just to **** on everybody else. really this game is just about damage output and HP, it's mathematical, not tactical. I wish it revolved around skill but it doesn't/ well clearly the qqing is working didnt you hear they are giving it a range buff
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3962	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:36:00 - [53] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: LittleCuteBunny wrote: CCP just needs to fix the overheat bypass This. The point that the ScR has it's drawback of (supposedly) not being able to kill multiple enemies because of the overheat is lovely in theory, but when the overheat is so easy to ignore... Are you kidding me ? Without Amarr assault suits it overheat in less than 8-9 shots...... Making you cannot run or do anything during 3sec (makes you die...) 8-9 shots? Without Amarr Assault - 18 With Amarr Assault - 24 Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3962	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:37:00 - [54] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Following op's logic I should clearly be seeing more scrambler rifles than oh say, assault rifles The numbers are actually increasing daily. I see more and more people use the SCR and ASCR over the AR. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Johnny Guilt 362	Posted - 2013.11.24 18:07:00 - [55] - Quote make the crosshairs spread as big(or bigger) as current Tar and youll get a balanced weapon,so simple CCP would screw it up like they did the tar as they lowered the Rof with it as well....
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1326	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:29:00 - [56] - Quote Lea Silencio wrote: RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 ^ Haters gon' hate! Until they get run over by a Limbus going 120mph Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 5352	Posted - 2013.11.24 19:58:00 - [57] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: RevoL Frog wrote: I submit evidence of my claim here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnXa5GZszk8&t=9 I actually looked at the stats of the enemies being killed. Most of the enemies were wearing militia and standard suits, with militia and standard guns. This. Quote: Arkena was using a Gallente Logistics with 900 HP. 900 HP > 400 HP. This. Quote: Arkena had a scanner. Knowing where everyone is > not knowing anything. This. Quote: Arkena got several kills in a row with cooked Core Locus Grenades while camping a hive. I'd say that infinite OHKO grenades with a 15m diameter blast is more OP than Scrambler Rifles. This. Level 5 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 669	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:28:00 - [58] - Quote Because the war against AR has not yet been won. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 884	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:47:00 - [59] - Quote I believe SCR is getting a range buff in 1.7 and TAR is getting a range nerf. TAR will be worse in every aspect.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 153	Posted - 2013.11.24 20:47:00 - [60] - Quote The scr has 15 shots to kill how many does the duvolle have? And yes I know it has a mag thsts more than 15 but overheat kills it at 15 if hot those 10/15 shots we win,if not we lose If we lead with a charged we have 3 remaining shots Christ is lord Sanguine knights , open recruitment, join now. Free tacos



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