John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
444
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Posted - 2013.11.24 15:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
xSir Campsalotx wrote:Overheating prevents it from having as long as a continuous fire as the AR but leaves dps unchanged unless your comparing the dps of the entire clip of both weapons in which the scrambler would have significantly less but we both know neither weapon requires an entire clip to kill really only till your reach about 1800hp worth of damage (maxed out heavy) really all dps in its truest form determines who will kill first.
Pro cal assualt 700 hp Imperial will kill in 7 shots leaves 8 to be missed Pro cal assualt 700 hp duvolle takes 14 shots about
who will win most likely the imperial guy simply becasue he has a built in advantage of at least 50% and up to almpst 100% and since they have almost the same range their is nowhere for the AR to win he cant outrange or dps
hmg beats ar in close but ar can outrange, ar can beat laser but laser can outrange, laser beats sniper but sniper can outrange notice a pattern scrambler takes a sh*t on this ar has no mechanical advantage like the others hell technically the scrambler beats everything it shares a range or has more than. it beats hmg, ar, and shotgun (assuming you can survive initial shotgun shot which most pro suits can)
Cal assault is a bad example because the SR is basically designed to take down caldari shield tankers. I'm not so sure you come out the same going against a bricked-out Gallente suit. Which is weird if you think about it, you would have expected more "ScR is OP" threads when shield tanking was vastly better than armor tanking.
Plus, without a modded controller (which should be accounted for by CCP but not the sole basis for balance discussions) you're not likely to be able to fire 8 shots with a scrambler as fas as a duvolle, it has double the fire rate. This is why these "on paper" discussions are iffy, and you should never really compare the number of shots fired because that is completely apples vs oranges.
Regardless, it's a moot point for two reasons : One, the TTK is so low that it hardly matters whether you use an imperial or a duvolle, whoever gets the first shots off is going to win 99% of the time anyway. Hell, you can with a GEK, I do all the time.
Perhaps more importantly, two new rifles are coming out. It's basically impossible to have any meaningful (read: non-troll) balance discussion until they are out in the wild. It's not like it's a soonGäó thing where we are prepping for a theoretical weapon months down the line, we're talking about what, 2-3 weeks?
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
445
|
Posted - 2013.11.24 17:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:
- I actually looked at the stats of the enemies being killed. Most of the enemies were wearing militia and standard suits, with militia and standard guns.
- Arkena was using a Gallente Logistics with 900 HP. 900 HP > 400 HP.
- Arkena had a scanner. Knowing where everyone is > not knowing anything.
- Arkena got several kills in a row with cooked Core Locus Grenades while camping a hive. I'd say that infinite OHKO grenades with a 15m diameter blast is more OP than Scrambler Rifles.
- Arkena has Wiyrkomi Nanohives that heal 70 HP/S, plus 5 HP/S innate armor repair.
Arkena would've died multiple times without such a pronounced gear advantage. A couple of times the militia opponents dropped 500+ HP. To add further insult to injury, here come the Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohives. Let's say we swapped the Imperial for a Duvolle. What would happen? Maybe they'd get a few less kills against enemies out of range. Would going 40/0 against militia noobs really be any better? If you have scan intel, twice as much health, 75 HP/S regen, infinite ammo and damage mods with a proto weapon and Gallente suit, it's pretty hard to die. Even with a standard Heavy suit with 2 Armor Repair modules and a GLU Tac AR, which is essentially a poor man's version with slightly longer range and no hives, I can post up 30+ kills and <3 deaths against a team of mostly standard and militia. During Black Eagle week, I went something like 40 to 2 strafing back and forth on a mushroom roof in Domination mowing down enemies going to capture a terminal because I had 1200 HP with 7 HP/S repair. I died twice, but only to damage mod snipers. It took 0 effort and had I used a proto sentinel with complex repairers, plates, mods, I probably could've went 49/0, too. Now, the Scrambler Rifle is more OP than the AR in the right hands. I'd suggest a RoF nerf down to 500 to bring the DPS down to a little over 900 when the Duvolle hits 640. There's still an advantage in damage and range plus charge shots, but it makes it a little harder to just run at people and spasm the trigger. EDIT: Also, most players cannot hit the RoF cap. I've seen a few that break the 400-500 range, and obviously turbo controllers can hit the cap, so a nerf would bring down the raw potential. Maybe a small hipfire spread increase would help, too.
Yup, it's always "this person went 40/0, it must be the weapon." As a non-murder logi, I have a crap KDR and usually get less than 10 kills a game (avg game maybe 7/5 nowadays?). My best game ever in terms of kills was 25/3, a few weeks ago on Ashland domination. I got killed 3 times pretty quick trying to take the objective while the blueberries ran around in circles, hacked turrets far away from the battle, tried to shoot up at the protobears raining down nades and MD rounds, etc. So, I switched to a super-profile-damped A/1 suit, camped on a hill, and with a charge sniper prof 3 and 3 complex dmg mods proceeded to go 25/0 in the 5 minutes or so left in the battle and somehow we won on clones, I'm not sure how that happened but whatever.
Was I suddenly OP? No, trust me, if I always went 26/0 and got 400k ISK sniping I would surely do it more often. There were just some stupid people who thought their proto suits made them invincible standing still on the pipes begging me to headshot them, and then inexplicably continued to spawn up there. (to be sure, they were mercilessly slaughtering blueberries that way so maybe it made sense to them, who knows). Regardless, I'm sure some aurum proto wearing tryhard who also couldn't believe they lost probably saw me on top of the board at 26/3 with 2500 WP or whatever and made one of those stupid rage threads about damage mods being OP some some crap.
Experiences like this cloud peoples judgement and make what sounds like a compelling argument that really isn't based in fact. It's like a recall bias (or maybe availability bias is a better term) - you don't know much about the 5 guys you just killed, It's anyone's guess whether your victims had a imperial or std scrambler, or even an AR if you didn't get a good look. But you sure as hell get a big "you lose" screen every time you die telling you all about the person who got you. It's made worse by what it doesn't tell you, like if that person had prof 5, or about the other 2 guys who got some shots on you, or those triage hives, or that pesky logi with a rep tool around the corner you couldn't see.
TL; DR. This QQ is all subjective and has little basis in fact. All rifles are currently OP, it's not the ScR.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
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