DUST Search - How IMHO swarm launchers should behave

Atiim wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote:

As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7.

Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat.
The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO.

So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person?

You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork?

And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%.

No tanking does require team work or you would be out of a job. You are constantly say how easy unsquadded tankers are to take down....well yes they are easy because they aren't using team work.

If you are a good tanker you don't need it, I'm not good, just very lucky.

Nobody has ever been able to supply a reasonable reply as to why they should be able to force people to use teamwork when I myself have no requirements to use teamwork. And I guess you won't either. Such a shame

From my experience, using an HAV does not require teamwork. The presence and threat of an HAV is simply increased by teamwork. In 1.7 HAVs will require no teamwork whatsoever beyond directions to the nearest supply depot. Yet you want AV to require 3-6 people to be successful.

Also, I wouldn't be out of a job because I'm not dumb enough to skill into one thing and then cry about how boring this game is when I get tired of running the exact same fittings and loadouts everyday.

To rip a page out of my 3rd favorite Forum Punching Bag, Spkr4TheDead's book:

Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots.

"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3838	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:16:00 - [1] - Quote Swarms are going to be lame against tanks. Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla. Ok then, how about dropships? Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial... But wait. Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right? Does that mean that a dropship with an MCRU can just sit at top height and drop soldiers without being touched? Or an assault dropship that can rain down missiles with 300 splash without being damaged? Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air. At least that, please? http://i.imgur.com/5U6GLvl.png So basically - Just change vertical range to be unlimited, and done. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 749	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:18:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?. Wrong thats their max lock on range Cat Merc wrote: Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air. At least that, please? At about 100 meters you guys on the grond are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 menter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1016	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:19:00 - [3] - Quote I get what you're saying, but I don't really see how it makes sense that locking stuff above you has a longer range than locking stuff horizontally from you. I think there must be a more eloquent solution. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3838	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:21:00 - [4] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I get what you're saying, but I don't really see how it makes sense that locking stuff above you has a longer range than locking stuff horizontally from you. I think there must be a more eloquent solution. If there is I don't see it. It's not that big of a deal, say that swarms' tracking computer creates a tube around the user with limited range in which it can lock on to any target regardless of position inside the tube. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 3838	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:22:00 - [5] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?. Wrong thats their max lock on range Same **** for our purposes :P Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1016	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:23:00 - [6] - Quote I mean swarms are pretty mindless, this could be CCP making a push for people to use more skill-oriented AV weapons and being less reliant on the noob-proof ones? ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1016	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:25:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?. Wrong thats their max lock on range Same **** for our purposes :P And actually thats not very true at all. With the decreased delay between subsequent locks, one could lock onto a vehicle that gets too close and have multiple salvos in the air, and while the vehicle may move out of lock range in that time period the missiles very well might continue tracking for longer than 175m. You see this principle on some EVE ships where the missiles technically have a range of 160km but the ship itself can only lock onto targets around 90km away. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Virtual Riot The Vanguardians 75	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:34:00 - [8] - Quote Umm... Dropships can already sit at the flight ceiling and be totally safe from all av Don't fight me on this I'm a pretty dam good ADS pilot if I do say so myself, been doing it before it was cool
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 2096	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:41:00 - [9] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Umm... Dropships can already sit at the flight ceiling and be totally safe from all av Don't fight me on this I'm a pretty dam good ADS pilot if I do say so myself, been doing it before it was cool Except we make ourselves absolutely useless up there. We need to come down, within 175m of the ground in fact, to be of use. To be honest, this lock on restriction is a boon for noob ()swarm users. Experienced users will know to let the vehicle get as close as possible so as not to lose the element of surprise and get whole clips in the air before the vehicle can back away. This encourages that sort of play. Furthermore, what with vehicle reliance on supply depots, squads of swarms can camp enemy depots knowing vehicles will need to resupplying ammo there eventually, and gangbang them. Sorry feline overlord but I'm inclined to disagree on this one. "When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 165	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:49:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: At about 100 meters you guys on the grond are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 menter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed. Because of the EHP difference? Because the vehicle moves FASTER? And 75mts difference wont help me put any damage on a tank BEFORE he sees me. At most, 1 volley. Because with the low damage i will need like 10 volleys to even scare tanks ? while they can 2HKO me every time? I dont know.... Maybe i'll ask around... >..>

A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 433	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:50:00 - [11] - Quote If you do not want to mess with the swarm launcher itself then you could add a laser designator which massively extends the lock on range. The designator could be a weapon attachment, piece of equipment or an 8x Skill.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 751	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:50:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Same **** for our purposes :P No. That makes no sense and you cannot just make your own reality. Saying 175 meter lock is the same as 400 meters range is wrong not the same, not whatever. It's just plain wrong. Why can you not just say. I was wrong? does misrepresenting the facts help your agenda more than the truth? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 751	Posted - 2013.11.21 23:53:00 - [13] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: ...Because with the low damage i will need like 10 volleys to even scare tanks ? while they can 2HKO me every time? >..>[/b] WHere are you getting the information that light AV weapons should be able to kill tanks? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 314	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:29:00 - [14] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: ...Because with the low damage i will need like 10 volleys to even scare tanks ? while they can 2HKO me every time? >..>[/b] WHere are you getting the information that light AV weapons should be able to kill tanksGÇªEASILY? Fixed that for you Judge. I'm of the opinion that a single AV player should not be able to efficiently take out a well fitted tank/dropship alone. It's possible, but with bad piloting on the pilot's side. AV should be a team sport (2-4ish) to kill a well fitted, well piloted vehicles, and even then vehicles should have some chance to escape. Other than that, vehicles should just be threatened, but not killed. Dropship Specialist: AKA Clinically Insane Kills- Incubus: 2; Pythons: 0; Logistics: 0; Militia: 10
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4211	Posted - 2013.11.22 00:34:00 - [15] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: At about 100 meters you guys on the grond are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 menter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed. Because of the EHP difference? Because the vehicle moves FASTER? And 75mts difference wont help me put any damage on a tank BEFORE he sees me. At most, 1 volley. Because with the low damage i will need like 10 volleys to even scare tanks ? while they can 2HKO me every time? I dont know.... Maybe i'll ask around... >..> Don't kid yourself if I come back the game I'll still be running from between 5-7K AV damage sources ever 6 seconds. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2433	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:10:00 - [16] - Quote As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. HellsGÇáorm, Director Bringing the Wrath of God down on the Matari since YC114
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4212	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:17:00 - [17] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. OMG THERE IS REASON AMONGST YOUR PEOPLE. But yeah I agree. I still want AV to be a threat....just not a seemingly invisible omnipotent one. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1246	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:20:00 - [18] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?. Wrong thats their max lock on range That doesn't matter. I can't fire at you unless I can lock on to you. Cat Merc wrote: Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air. At least that, please? At about 100 meters you guys on the ground are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 meter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed. Still doesn't change the fact that LDSs and Dropships w/ Mobile CRUs can sit above our lock range and be untouched by SL users. Also, would it be inappropriate to say that I thoroughly enjoy your videos? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1246	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:25:00 - [19] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person? You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork? And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1246	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:27:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: ACE OF JOKERS wrote: ...Because with the low damage i will need like 10 volleys to even scare tanks ? while they can 2HKO me every time? >..>[/b] Where are you getting the information that light AV weapons should be able to kill tanks? It's a thing called balance. Why would I ever use a Light weapon when only a heavy weapon is capable of destroying a tank? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4213	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:27:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person? You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork? And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%. No tanking does require team work or you would be out of a job. You are constantly say how easy unsquadded tankers are to take down....well yes they are easy because they aren't using team work. If you are a good tanker you don't need it, I'm not good, just very lucky. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1247	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:30:00 - [22] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I mean swarms are pretty mindless, this could be CCP making a push for people to use more skill-oriented AV weapons and being less reliant on the noob-proof ones? Plasma Cannons are the only AV weapon that requires skill beyond rotating your joystick. Should we all be forced to use the same weapon? Plasma Cannons are the only weapon within itself that requires skill beyond the rotation of your joystick. Not just AV but as a weapon in general. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2181	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:31:00 - [23] - Quote All I know iI that I am speccing out of swarms the second I can. Add another weapon to the useless pile. A pile that includes: -Breach AR -Burst AR -Breach Flaylock -Assault Swarm Launcher -Small Rail Turret -AV mines Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2181	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:34:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I mean swarms are pretty mindless, this could be CCP making a push for people to use more skill-oriented AV weapons and being less reliant on the noob-proof ones? Plasma Cannons are the only AV weapon that requires skill beyond rotating your joystick. Should we all be forced to use the same weapon? Plasma Cannons are the only weapon within itself that requires skill beyond the rotation of your joystick. Not just AV but as a weapon in general. The Proto Allotek Plasma Cannnon is pretty good AV, as long as you use Complex Damage Mods and get the Damage Proficiency. Saw a guy the other day one shotting Proto Gallante Logis with just splash Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Eris Ernaga State Patriots 732	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:37:00 - [25] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Swarms are going to be lame against tanks. Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla. Ok then, how about dropships? Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial... But wait. Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right? Does that mean that a dropship with an MCRU can just sit at top height and drop soldiers without being touched? Or an assault dropship that can rain down missiles with 300 splash without being damaged? Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air. At least that, please? http://i.imgur.com/5U6GLvl.png So basically - Just change vertical range to be unlimited, and done. Railgun tanks another dropship Swarm launcher if the enemy drop ship gets close railgun instillation missile installation missile tank are all still good ways to counter dropships. State Patriots a loyal Caldari based corporation is accepting all Caldari and Amarr to help fight on the front.
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 619	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:40:00 - [26] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: All I know iI that I am speccing out of swarms the second I can. Add another weapon to the useless pile. A pile that includes: -Breach AR -Burst AR -Breach Flaylock -Assault Swarm Launcher -Small Rail Turret -AV mines Ehem Burst AR IS AWESMOEEEEE "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1248	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:40:00 - [27] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person? You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork? And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%. No tanking does require team work or you would be out of a job. You are constantly say how easy unsquadded tankers are to take down....well yes they are easy because they aren't using team work. If you are a good tanker you don't need it, I'm not good, just very lucky. Nobody has ever been able to supply a reasonable reply as to why they should be able to force people to use teamwork when I myself have no requirements to use teamwork. And I guess you won't either. Such a shame From my experience, using an HAV does not require teamwork. The presence and threat of an HAV is simply increased by teamwork. In 1.7 HAVs will require no teamwork whatsoever beyond directions to the nearest supply depot. Yet you want AV to require 3-6 people to be successful. Also, I wouldn't be out of a job because I'm not dumb enough to skill into one thing and then cry about how boring this game is when I get tired of running the exact same fittings and loadouts everyday. To rip a page out of my 3rd favorite Forum Punching Bag, Spkr4TheDead's book: Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
EternalRMG KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 619	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:41:00 - [28] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Swarms are going to be lame against tanks. Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla. Ok then, how about dropships? Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial... But wait. Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right? Does that mean that a dropship with an MCRU can just sit at top height and drop soldiers without being touched? Or an assault dropship that can rain down missiles with 300 splash without being damaged? Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air. At least that, please? http://i.imgur.com/5U6GLvl.png So basically - Just change vertical range to be unlimited, and done. Railgun tanks another dropship Swarm launcher if the enemy drop ship gets close railgun instillation missile installation missile tank are all still good ways to counter dropships. Ill get a Railgun Incubus if CCP gives me a full respec (I BEG YOU CCP; I DONT WANT TO BE FORCE TO GO LOGI) and ill just collect tears from all the vehicles in the field, who stand unchallenged I can get them when they are on cooldown while others might not "Fight Togheter; Win Together" Duster Since: July 2012 Best DropShip Pilot; Soon To be best Jet Fighter Pilot
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1248	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:42:00 - [29] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: All I know iI that I am speccing out of swarms the second I can. Add another weapon to the useless pile. A pile that includes: -Breach AR -Burst AR -Breach Flaylock -Assault Swarm Launcher -Small Rail Turret -AV mines Ehem Burst AR IS AWESMOEEEEE It is, but it won't be when you are out ranged and out DPS'd by every other rifle in the game. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4213	Posted - 2013.11.22 01:43:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7. Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat. The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO. So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person? You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork? And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%. No tanking does require team work or you would be out of a job. You are constantly say how easy unsquadded tankers are to take down....well yes they are easy because they aren't using team work. If you are a good tanker you don't need it, I'm not good, just very lucky. Nobody has ever been able to supply a reasonable reply as to why they should be able to force people to use teamwork when I myself have no requirements to use teamwork. And I guess you won't either. Such a shame From my experience, using an HAV does not require teamwork. The presence and threat of an HAV is simply increased by teamwork. In 1.7 HAVs will require no teamwork whatsoever beyond directions to the nearest supply depot. Yet you want AV to require 3-6 people to be successful. Also, I wouldn't be out of a job because I'm not dumb enough to skill into one thing and then cry about how boring this game is when I get tired of running the exact same fittings and loadouts everyday. To rip a page out of my 3rd favorite Forum Punching Bag, Spkr4TheDead's book: Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots. What does any military try to reinforce amongst its soldiers? Comradery and Teamwork. However I understand this is a game and gamers are notoriously selfish and anti social recluses...but hell try to consider that you are playing a tactical shooter not a cod clone where one man makes himself and entire army because he can jack up his sensitivity and rock quick scopes all day. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"



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