Run a tank in PC and then comment that HAV's require no teamwork to use. Try moving from one point to another without being hit by two proto maxed IAFG's and a side of proto swarms chasing you in an LLAV. The only ones who can help you are your teamates, while the FG mindlessly spams shots from an unseen location on a tower.

Judge, I am a scrub SL user, but that video made me ROFL. Thank you.

It was just for fun. Swarmers should be pushing CCP to make their role rewarding. Skill, positioning etc should give you kills, and WP. Too many try to hang onto the easy aspects of swarming. One should be proud to be a swarmer. Did you see the "best 10 swarmers" thread. The whole community treated it as a joke. This should concern you. YOu guys need to be rewarded too, Good skills should lead to WP. But atm the weapon is to unbalanced to help you prove your worth.

You should be able to out think your enemy. Having game mechanics that only allow you to point and hit does not give you a chance to do this. Try to think of ways your weapon could change that would make it better. Not just range and damage but other aspects. How about missile types, or missiles that only hug the ground or ones that create smoke to blind pilots or ones that disable vehicle electronics and scanners.

Is killing the Dropship the only rewarding thing? can WP from grounding it be better> or WP for lighting it up so others can hit it? Lets make the fight between vehicles and infantry vaired and interesting. I want to fight you. But fairly.

Swarms are going to be lame against tanks.
Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla.
Ok then, how about dropships?
Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial...
But wait.

Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?
Does that mean that a dropship with an MCRU can just sit at top height and drop soldiers without being touched?
Or an assault dropship that can rain down missiles with 300 splash without being damaged?

Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air.
At least that, please?


http://i.imgur.com/5U6GLvl.png

So basically - Just change vertical range to be unlimited, and done.

Wrong thats their max lock on range




At about 100 meters you guys on the ground are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 meter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed.

So I should be able to force people to work together to take me out as a single person?

You do realize that HAVs require no teamwork right? So why should AV require teamwork?

And no "because I paid more" Is not a valid argument. If it was a valid excuse then it would be perfectly logical to say that AUR AV weapons should OHK everything and AUR vehicles should have a base resistance of 99%. It would also be perfectly logical to say that AUR weapons should have a damage modification of +10%.

There he is..........................

It's a thing called balance.

Why would I ever use a Light weapon when only a heavy weapon is capable of destroying a tank?

Railgun tanks
another dropship
Swarm launcher if the enemy drop ship gets close
railgun instillation
missile installation
missile tank

are all still good ways to counter dropships.

Balance to you is removing vehicles in their entirety.

Nobody has ever been able to supply a reasonable reply as to why they should be able to force people to use teamwork when I myself have no requirements to use teamwork. And I guess you won't either. Such a shame

From my experience, using an HAV does not require teamwork. The presence and threat of an HAV is simply increased by teamwork. In 1.7 HAVs will require no teamwork whatsoever beyond directions to the nearest supply depot. Yet you want AV to require 3-6 people to be successful.

Also, I wouldn't be out of a job because I'm not dumb enough to skill into one thing and then cry about how boring this game is when I get tired of running the exact same fittings and loadouts everyday.

To rip a page out of my 3rd favorite Forum Punching Bag, Spkr4TheDead's book:

Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots.

I don't understand why you say I don't use team work. I very much so do. Scans, forward scouts, covering hacks, taking down marauding enemy HAV with AV support....why are you blindly assuming I am some soloist who spends his time trying to get tanks buffed into God mode.

More often than not O have said that I wish the OP turret, that's what you are complaining about not tanks, is ruining tanking, more often than not have said I feel tanks are good where they are, but for some small modifications to how AV works.

I believe tanks do require team work, however that is not very well emphasised because turret gunning is worthless. I almost all other games I have played where vehicles are present they are anti infantry weapons used by a single pilot with control of powerful Anti Infantry guns, only through massed fire can you bring them down.

I also believe in the cycles of unit to unit interaction.

AVer < Infantry Assault
Infantry Assault < Tanks
Tanks < AV barrage

However there is no point in having HAV on the field at all if one single man with half the ISK investment can deny and entire facet of game play from some hidden crevice of the map....which at present AV can do.

Dropships are not worth using
Tanks barely useful in a fight
LAV.... mobile and disposable...very useful

Like in EVE I think that someone who invests ISK into something should be victorious unless they are poorly skilled.

I don't really care what you say but no Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser I believe at the moment is capable of beating my Armageddon, fully fitted and equipped.

Much like in EVE or any other game when you hunt something bigger than you, you take as many men as you can, and the biggest guns you can find to go and kill it.

Can you give me a reason to deploy vehicles to a battle? I cant think of one right now with the game the way it is? All it does is cost me ISK and, I wont say Im the top dog pilot, but I'm pretty damn good when I get going.

But those require intelligence, and we can't have that, no way!

The problem is scalability as long as you have maxed Team sizes this ratio will not work its pretty easy if I need 2 people to fight against 1 guy using a certain equipment there is a problem (this does not only refere to vehicles).

What will happen if two are using the same Equipment or three or four or five all at the same time. Lets stick with the more extreme case 5 tanks by your logic it would take 10 guys from team A to counter 5 guys on team B, wheras the 10 from Team A can easily be countered from the rest of Team B (11).

So the only Real Answer for Team A to Counter Team B would be to use the same Equipment and we get a scenario where the only viable counter to a rock is another rock and for this making paper a nonfactor...

Well some will say you could take on one after another (which would only be true IF they were stupid enough to line up). But even then this still causes a small inbalance in teams.

If you do not want to mess with the swarm launcher itself then you could add a laser designator which massively extends the lock on range.

The designator could be a weapon attachment, piece of equipment or an 8x Skill.

Vehicle EHP is going down significantly from what it currently is, swarm damage is being lowered appropriately as well. The only thing you might have to complain about is the lowered lock on range... which is a silly thing to ***** about as right now with a 400m lock on range you can deny the WHOLE MAP to a dropship user and quite a fair bit of it to a tank user as well.

Right now you are complaining because you won't be able to pull the same crap with the absolute impunity you currently have.

OMG THERE IS REASON AMONGST YOUR PEOPLE.

But yeah I agree. I still want AV to be a threat....just not a seemingly invisible omnipotent one.

Balance>Gameplay

If AV is FORCED to use teamwork to be successful, then HAVs should be FORCED to use teamwork to be successful.

So answer the question already. Do you think that both HAV and AV should BOTH be forced to use teamwork and tactics to be successful?

Or was I right when I said Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots?

I refuse to fire at a target that is not within an estimated 200m range. I find that to be highly broken. It's the same reason that I don't snipe from the redline with a Charge or Kaailikiotia Sniper Rifle. Why does everyone assume that me using a SL automatically means that I spam rockets from the redline or high ground. That's not even effective.

I find the 175m lock to be broken because it allows DS pilots to easily fly above our lock range with complete impunity.

1. you're an idiot cat merc
2. swarms are area denial, dropships guns have very little range.
3. dropships with mcru's have always been untouchable at max height
4. you're an idiot cat merc

compains about av nerf.........................

dosnt know how long tanks have been nerfed for....

"You have already been corrected about the 175m being lock on not range, yet you keep saying range. Why do you keep trying to mislead people?"
Because that's EFFECTIVELY their range.

This is so idiotic that it hurts.

The lock practically is their range. How is a Swarm Launcher going to fire at something if they can't lock? The only way this could happen is if someone gets hit by a SL while trying to evade them, which won't even be a concern when our PRO variants do as much damage as a STD swarm launcher.

Stop trying to mislead people.

(Also, if you get OHK'd by any SL, your mods either down, you are using MLT gear, or you are just plain awful.)

LOL PRO Infantry rarely go 30-0 without teamwork.

I could care less if they use teamwork. The only problem here is that pilots want to be able to solo everyone and force everyone to use teamwork while they themselves are not required to use teamwork. Thanks for proving my point though.

And why would I fire my AR/ScR at a vehicle when I can destroy it with a Wyrikomi and watch them QQ about how I destroyed their poorly fit vehicle.

Tell that FG stuff to people like GeneralButtNaked, CharCharOdell, and Void Echo who think that FGs require skill.

As if piloting anything other than a DS required skill

Run a tank in PC and then comment that HAV's require no teamwork to use. Try moving from one point to another without being hit by two proto maxed IAFG's and a side of proto swarms chasing you in an LLAV. The only ones who can help you are your teamates, while the FG mindlessly spams shots from an unseen location on a tower.

Message from Godin: Since you so repeatly likes to say we never use team work, I'll prove that we do, and ISK can vouch for me that I do this, as We've played so many times together it's stupid:

1: bone rushes into a gruop of guysmadly shooting at everyrthhing in sight, and potentionally losing the HAV, to give me team about 10-20 seconds to do whatever they need to do

2: circling a base w/e sniper support to watch out for any ninja hackers

3: Me and Forge support to take out 2-3 HAV's

4:random fire into an obj. to cause mayhem and to allow my team to push on said obj.

5: Parking my HAV in a position so someone can hide behind me

6: (only outside of Pubs) Ferrying troops across the map instead of them running.

7: similar to #1, driving into the redline to save 2 DS's, taking out a rail turret, and a HAV, and somehow making it out

Every single one of these other than #7 I've done almost every time I take out a HAV. Don't tell me that I'm not supporting my team, otherwise, you're a ******* lair.

I don't spam FGs or SLs on high towers. That's basically asking for your missiles to crash into a wall. And with the travel time on Swarm Launchers, the closer you are to the target, the higher your DPS.

Done. Now let me comment and say that HAVs require no teamwork to use whatsoever.

Even if, it is ridiculously idiotic to balance this game around a game-mode that very few people actually participate in.

How many people does it take to operate a vehicle? Now how many people do LOLTank Brigadiers want it to take for the destruction of an HAV?

That's not balance. That's God mode.