The Proto Allotek Plasma Cannnon is pretty good AV, as long as you use Complex Damage Mods and get the Damage Proficiency.

Saw a guy the other day one shotting Proto Gallante Logis with just splash

What does any military try to reinforce amongst its soldiers?

Comradery and Teamwork.

However I understand this is a game and gamers are notoriously selfish and anti social recluses...but hell try to consider that you are playing a tactical shooter not a cod clone where one man makes himself and entire army because he can jack up his sensitivity and rock quick scopes all day.

Balance>Gameplay

If AV is FORCED to use teamwork to be successful, then HAVs should be FORCED to use teamwork to be successful.

So answer the question already. Do you think that both HAV and AV should BOTH be forced to use teamwork and tactics to be successful?

Or was I right when I said Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots?

Plasma Cannons are the only AV weapon that requires skill beyond rotating your joystick. Should we all be forced to use the same weapon?

Plasma Cannons are the only weapon within itself that requires skill beyond the rotation of your joystick. Not just AV but as a weapon in general.

I mean swarms are pretty mindless, this could be CCP making a push for people to use more skill-oriented AV weapons and being less reliant on the noob-proof ones?

Swarms are going to be lame against tanks.
Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla.
Ok then, how about dropships?
Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial...
But wait.

snip

I mean swarms are pretty mindless, this could be CCP making a push for people to use more skill-oriented AV weapons and being less reliant on the noob-proof ones?

Except we make ourselves absolutely useless up there. We need to come down, within 175m of the ground in fact, to be of use.

To be honest, this lock on restriction is a boon for noob ()swarm users. Experienced users will know to let the vehicle get as close as possible so as not to lose the element of surprise and get whole clips in the air before the vehicle can back away. This encourages that sort of play.

Furthermore, what with vehicle reliance on supply depots, squads of swarms can camp enemy depots knowing vehicles will need to resupplying ammo there eventually, and gangbang them.

Sorry feline overlord but I'm inclined to disagree on this one.

As a lock-on scrublet with proficiency 4 in swarms I'll hold back my QQ until I actually play 1.7.

Swarms are going to function differently that's for sure but with teamwork and creativity they will still be a threat.
The bottom line on swarms? They can no longer 1v1 well fit vehicles and that's how is it should be IMO.

1. you're an idiot cat merc
2. swarms are area denial, dropships guns have very little range.
3. dropships with mcru's have always been untouchable at max height
4. you're an idiot cat merc

"Balance>Gameplay

If AV is FORCED to use teamwork to be successful, then HAVs should be FORCED to use teamwork to be successful.

So answer the question already. Do you think that both HAV and AV should BOTH be forced to use teamwork and tactics to be successful?

Or was I right when I said Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots?"

....2. 250m, when compared to the swarms 175m range.
...

oh atim atim aim, why do you want it rediculously easy to destroy vehicles? i barely get killed by vehicles, as they cant go where i can, and vehicles use teamwork to defend objectives or assault with infantry.
for my last point: it's okay for proto infantry to go 30-0 but vehicles cant go 10-0? it's okay for proto infantry using no teamwork but not vehicles? oh and my well fit suit solo's all day and profits.
bottom line: it's okay for proto infantry to do well but not vehicles cuz your AR/ScR can't hurt it?
pss, 1 forge gunner destroying well fit vehicles is BS from like 300M, high damage high rof high range isn't balanced.

Wrong thats their max lock on range




At about 100 meters you guys on the grond are a single black pixel. Giving you 175 menter lock on is generous. You can see me approach clearly at over 400 meters while i cannot see you until 100. Your advantage is so huge I am confused at why you feel more is needed.

The point is a Proto infantry can easily be killed by anyone using militia gear, you don't need teamwork you don't need to be smart for doing this. So when a Proto goes 30-0 its usually because he simply better or uses lots of teamwork in a squad not because he is nearly invincible to most weapons.

yet when vehicles try to be effective, they die, besides the good-ones are unkillable, yet good vehicles die quick, btw, it takes teamwork to kill a heavy A.K0 for some reason, but thats just my GEK, but my point is infantry can go atleast 20-0 but vehicles cant do crap, besides if infantry die they can easily get thier suits back, in 1 game too, proto even...

Effective long missile range is about 80m. Very few kills happen above 100m range. Try it. Swarms do not have to aim. they can fire while jumping off a ledge or hopping like a fairy on skipping drugs. At the same time it am trying to hit their 3 pixel dot of a body that is the same colour as the ground; their hits are knocking me all over the place, yet my missiles do not hinder their aim one bit.

I have never hit anyone from a dropship at 175m. Even if I did it would not OHK you unless it was a direct hit, and even then only if you are in a weak suit. You seem to like to spread misinformation Cat Merc yet never change what you say even after you have been corrected many times. We can see your agenda is a selfish one, which is something New Eden allows for but It would greatly help the community if you tried to be more honest and fair with other posters.

You have already been corrected about the 175m being lock on not range, yet you keep saying range. Why do you keep trying to mislead people?

Effective long missile range is about 80m. Very few kills happen above 100m range. Try it. Swarms do not have to aim. they can fire while jumping off a ledge or hopping like a fairy on skipping drugs. At the same time it am trying to hit their 3 pixel dot of a body that is the same colour as the ground; their hits are knocking me all over the place, yet my missiles do not hinder their aim one bit.

I have never hit anyone from a dropship at 175m. Even if I did it would not OHK you unless it was a direct hit, and even then only if you are in a weak suit. You seem to like to spread misinformation Cat Merc yet never change what you say even after you have been corrected many times. We can see your agenda is a selfish one, which is something New Eden allows for but It would greatly help the community if you tried to be more honest and fair with other posters.

You have already been corrected about the 175m being lock on not range, yet you keep saying range. Why do you keep trying to mislead people?

oh atim atim aim, why do you want it rediculously easy to destroy vehicles? i barely get killed by vehicles, as they cant go where i can, and vehicles use teamwork to defend objectives or assault with infantry.
for my last point: it's okay for proto infantry to go 30-0 but vehicles cant go 10-0? it's okay for proto infantry using no teamwork but not vehicles? oh and my well fit suit solo's all day and profits.
bottom line: it's okay for proto infantry to do well but not vehicles cuz your AR/ScR can't hurt it?
pss, 1 forge gunner destroying well fit vehicles is BS from like 300M, high damage high rof high range isn't balanced.

Any weapon is good when you have the PRO variant, Proficiency Level 3, and stacked complex damage mods.

Nobody has ever been able to supply a reasonable reply as to why they should be able to force people to use teamwork when I myself have no requirements to use teamwork. And I guess you won't either. Such a shame

From my experience, using an HAV does not require teamwork. The presence and threat of an HAV is simply increased by teamwork. In 1.7 HAVs will require no teamwork whatsoever beyond directions to the nearest supply depot. Yet you want AV to require 3-6 people to be successful.

Also, I wouldn't be out of a job because I'm not dumb enough to skill into one thing and then cry about how boring this game is when I get tired of running the exact same fittings and loadouts everyday.

To rip a page out of my 3rd favorite Forum Punching Bag, Spkr4TheDead's book:

Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me... Such is the motto of pilots.

"You have already been corrected about the 175m being lock on not range, yet you keep saying range. Why do you keep trying to mislead people?"
Because that's EFFECTIVELY their range.

...This is so idiotic that it hurts.

The lock practically is their range. How is a Swarm Launcher going to fire at something if they can't lock? The only way this could happen is if someone gets hit by a SL while trying to evade them, which won't even be a concern when our PRO variants do as much damage as a STD swarm launcher.

Cat, Atiim you must use the correct words in a discussion. If you dont you cannot have a valid discussion. let me explain why range and lock on are important distinctions that are NOT effectively the same.

A drop ship hovers at 200m. No lock on. No missile range. No shot. It moves to 160 meters. It is now in lock on range. A swarm launcher fires a shot that hits the dropship, who then decides to move. the swarm meantime has another volly in the air before the first even hit, as is easily possible today, and the dropship is at 200m before the 2nd volley reaches it. That volly will chase and hit the dropship in most cases.

As you can see lock on and range are different and the difference greatly effects tactics. If a swarmer shoots at a dropship as soon as it enders LO range, it will move out of LO range before volley two can be fired. A smart swarmer will wait. This adds tactics to the easiest weapon in the game.

What you are complaining about is this :

"I can't hit something that is too far away for my weapon" This applies to all weapons. Shoot a guy at the limits of your ARs range and your ability to kill him is reduced. There is less damage, time for him to hide or just run from you. Scouts play now like swarms will in 1.7. Get into a good spot to shoot first before you act.

Swarmers are just to used to shooting anything they see and never having to think. just spam spam spam. It is the weakest playstyle with the lowest skill level. Watch this. that is what swarms are like. Replace stinger with swarm and this may as well be about dust.

So you are right. You cannot kill something when you shoot at the wrong time and it runs away. Why are you even making this point?

The problem is scalability as long as you have maxed Team sizes this ratio will not work its pretty easy if I need 2 people to fight against 1 guy using a certain equipment there is a problem (this does not only refere to vehicles).

What will happen if two are using the same Equipment or three or four or five all at the same time. Lets stick with the more extreme case 5 tanks by your logic it would take 10 guys from team A to counter 5 guys on team B, wheras the 10 from Team A can easily be countered from the rest of Team B (11).

So the only Real Answer for Team A to Counter Team B would be to use the same Equipment and we get a scenario where the only viable counter to a rock is another rock and for this making paper a nonfactor...

Well some will say you could take on one after another (which would only be true IF they were stupid enough to line up). But even then this still causes a small inbalance in teams.

Still doesn't change the fact that LDSs and Dropships w/ Mobile CRUs can sit above our lock range and be untouched by SL users.

Also, would it be inappropriate to say that I thoroughly enjoy your videos?

Swarms are going to be lame against tanks.
Low damage, tanks will run away fast, bla bla bla.
Ok then, how about dropships?
Hmm... Damage is low, sounds like they're area denial...
But wait.

Swarms can't reach more than 175m up since that's the max range right?
Does that mean that a dropship with an MCRU can just sit at top height and drop soldiers without being touched?
Or an assault dropship that can rain down missiles with 300 splash without being damaged?

Forge guns in 1.7 will basically be the only viable AV, so at least give swarms area denial of air.
At least that, please?


http://i.imgur.com/5U6GLvl.png

So basically - Just change vertical range to be unlimited, and done.