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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5212	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:21:00 - [1] - Quote After some time of reflecting on recent events here in the forums, I came to the following conclusion. If any of you disagree with me, please speak now or forever hold your pee. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116404&find=unread CCP Logibro wrote: Hey all, We just wanted to clarify statements made about the removal of BPOs. We are in the process of removing BPOs from the market. We have already removed them from the in game market, and we will eventually be removing them from packs available on the PSN Store. We are not removing any existing BPOs from any player inventories and there are no plans to do so. BPOs are currently not functioning as intended so we are looking at the way they work in game. Again, we would like to reiterate that they will not be removed from any inventories. The highlighted portion seemed like a very absolute statement that our BPOs will not be removed. This is the statement that reassured us that our BPOs (which we bought and stored in our inventory) will be safe. But then the following statement from another Dev came up recently not too long after (a couple of weeks actually). Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122274&find=unread CCP Frame wrote: In regards to BPOs: we are removing and refunding a few specific AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore. We have no plans for the immediate future to touch other blueprints. [...] 4800 AUR Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier 4800 AUR Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint As you can see here, there was a sudden change of plans. On the one hand, I do agree with many concerned players here that this is CCP going back on their word. But I do have another hand, you know. That other hand is telling me that AUR is being refunded at the current market price as you can see in the quotes above. If you are a recent player who bought these BPOs, you are given back AUR at the same amount you paid them for. If you're a closed-beta vet who owns these, you'll be earning profit. That other hand also has a very important question. Before I get to the question, here is a post made by Yelsha. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=122476 Yelsha Jin-Mao wrote: I've sent a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading... [...] Every time you buy something, be it a mobile phone from a mate or a week in Cuba from a travel agent, you make a contract with the seller. Now, this question goes to ANYONE who purchased these specific BPOs. I'm not talking about BPOs in general. I'm talking about the ones being removed according to CCP Frame. Were these four specific BPOs only available via the in-game Dust market window and therefore required you to purchase AURUM first? Or were these four specific BPOs also available directly from the PSN market as part of a Mercenary Pack posted for sale on the PSN Store? Note: If you bought merc packs from within the game itself, that still counts as purchasing from the PSN Store because Sony is the one marketing the Merc Packs for CCP. If you were only able to purchase these BPOs using AUR acquired from the PSN Store then technically, using Yelsha's quote "Every time you buy something you make a contract with the seller" this means that you specifically agreed to pay X amount of real money for X amount of AUR. The seller could technically care less (or none at all) about what you intend to do with the AUR after that. If the same seller makes a sudden change to that AUR, you are entitled to a cash refund for that AUR. But no changes were made to the AUR. You then used that AUR to purchase these BPOs directly within the in-game market. CCP then decides to remove these particular BPOs from the game and subsequently your inventory. CCP finally gives you a refund of the amount you paid for if you purchased them during open beta or shortly after the game's release. If you purchased them during closed beta, then you stand to profit with extra AUR magically appearing without adding more cash to it because you bought these BPOs back when they were only about 50-100 AUR each. At this point, no contract was violated. You got your AUR back at the exact amount you spent them. Technically, when you spent the AUR to purchase the BPOs from within the game, the only agreement you made was that CCP would refund you the AUR you spent on the BPOs should the BPOs get removed. Now comes the next part... IF on the other hand you managed to purchase these particular BPOs "AS PART OF" a Merc Pack that was featuring it (example: a 'Toxin' SMG as part of a Merc Pack) by spending X amount of real world money to get that Merc Pack, then you have a case of sorts. But even then, you have to go through Sony first since they are the ones selling you the Merc Packs for cash. At the most, you'll probably only get a store credit from Sony. Remember, Sony is a business often times business would prefer to give you store credit rather than cash refunds because then they get to keep the money and you still get to pick another item at no* additional charge. So, again... Were these four particular BPOs only available from within the in-game market in Dust which required you to first purchase AUR from Sony? Yes or No? EDIT: * - Typo CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5216	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:30:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved... just in case. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1889	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:30:00 - [3] - Quote In-game market only. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Thor McStrut Reckoners 416	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:33:00 - [4] - Quote Get out with your logic, reasoning, and sensible mumbo jumbo! THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING!!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5216	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:34:00 - [5] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: In-game market only. Which means.........................................................?? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 991	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:39:00 - [6] - Quote All these complaints about some militia BPO, they will refund you with aur, you have paid in aur, they'll refund aur, where is the problem? Militia bpo were not in pack and they are eliminating those things from the game. Would you be happy if they replace those militia BPOs with other militia BPOs? "Just another piece of duct tape" Some love for gunners
Foxbat 071 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 33	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:39:00 - [7] - Quote Let the people who are btching about the four vehicle BPOs keep them. Leave them with a BPO of a non-existing module that can't be fitted if they want them so bad. BLAP* ( X ) Call For Help ( O ) Respawn
Thor McStrut Reckoners 417	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:42:00 - [8] - Quote Foxbat 071 wrote: Let the people who are btching about the four vehicle BPOs keep them. Leave them with a BPO of a non-existing module that can't be fitted if they want them so bad. ^^This. Now this, this would be dirty*. Dooo eeeet!!
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1890	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:43:00 - [9] - Quote CCP owns all virtual goods in game including your character. CCP reserves the right to change in-game items which is necessary for this type of game or else they would never be able to improve the game. The player claiming legal rights to continue to own those specific blueprints is wrong. He purchased Aurum. He got Aurum. He spent the Aurum. He is now operating in the virtual world where CCP has the right to modify or remove the item. They chose to play nice return the Aurum so that players can purchase a different item. He still has access to the service provided by CCP and a comparable amount of virtual goods. If they hadn't returned the Aurum or left the player with an old and useless module the crying would now be about being left with a useless item. The developer is improving the game and providing you with comparable virtual currency. What is the problem? // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 794	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:46:00 - [10] - Quote are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5218	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:47:00 - [11] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: CCP owns all virtual goods in game including your character. CCP reserves the right to change in-game items which is necessary for this type of game or else they would never be able to improve the game. The player claiming legal rights to continue to own those specific blueprints is wrong. He purchased Aurum. He got Aurum. He spent the Aurum. He is now operating in the virtual world where CCP has the right to modify or remove the item. They chose to play nice return the Aurum so that players can purchase a different item. He still has access to the service provided by CCP and a comparable amount of virtual goods. If they hadn't returned the Aurum or left the player with an old and useless module the crying would now be about being left with a useless item. The developer is improving the game and providing you with comparable virtual currency. What is the problem? The problem, at least for the folks QQing about it, is that these people who are QQing might not understand what's going on here. If you're right, then these items were only available in-game as separate items requiring X amount of AUR to purchase with. This means that this whole thing about lawsuits and stuff like that is not only unnecessary but completely overblown. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1733	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote In game market These BPO were never in any merc packs and i bought nearly all of them at one time or another If i get the AUR back i wont be too fussed because like they said they will never be put back in, also from the sound of that we will never see items again even as non milita items which kinda sucks since they have variations which exist in EVE at least Get AUR buy boosters
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1587	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:52:00 - [13] - Quote Foxbat 071 wrote: Let the people who are b*tching about the four vehicle BPOs keep them. Leave them with a BPO of a non-existing module that can't be fitted if they want them so bad. This was my reaction to the BPO removal backlash.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5219	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:52:00 - [14] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store Again, answer my question. Were these BPOs ONLY available via the in-game market which required you to first purchase AUR to get it with? If so, then CCP technically wasn't stealing from you. They gave you back the AUR you spent on the BPO for. Just like how Sony would refund you with either cash or store credit if they removed AUR from your wallet. If they were also available in the PSN Store "AS PART OF" of a merc pack (example: 'Toxin' SMG on the Merc Pack) and you spent real world $$$ for that, then you can say CCP robbed you. If they were available as part of a Merc Pack, which packs were they part of? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5219	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:56:00 - [15] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store I hate to be the bad guy here or be the Devil's advocate, but I have to say this... If you answered YES* to my question, then you NEVER spent real money on those BPOs in question. You only spent AUR to get those BPOs. Again, Sony as a seller would care less what you intended to do with the AUR when you bought it from Sony. EDIT: Stupid typos CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1587	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:57:00 - [16] - Quote Personally, I think the QQGÇÖers are just Trolling us.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1892	Posted - 2013.11.21 18:58:00 - [17] - Quote According to the DUST 514 EULA Purchase of content is governed by the Sony Entertainment Terms of Service. http://dust514.com/eula/ http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/terms-of-service/ This looks like it might apply: SNEI DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY REFUNDS IN THE EVENT OF A PRICE DROP, A SUBSEQUENT PROMOTIONAL OFFERING OR PRODUCT REMOVAL, AND THE FEE APPLICABLE TO YOUR TRANSACTION WILL BE THE FEE THAT WAS IN EFFECT AT THE TIME OF THE TRANSACTION. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1892	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:00:00 - [18] - Quote Personally, I think once the money is spent and you are dealing with Aurum or virtual goods then CCP retains all rights to do whatever they think is necessary. // Logistics / Scout / Dropship Pilot Trainee // https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5220	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:01:00 - [19] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: According to the DUST 514 EULA Purchase of content is governed by the Sony Entertainment Terms of Service. http://dust514.com/eula/ http://www.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/terms-of-service/ This looks like it might apply: SNEI DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY REFUNDS IN THE EVENT OF A PRICE DROP, A SUBSEQUENT PROMOTIONAL OFFERING OR PRODUCT REMOVAL, AND THE FEE APPLICABLE TO YOUR TRANSACTION WILL BE THE FEE THAT WAS IN EFFECT AT THE TIME OF THE TRANSACTION. That still doesn't answer the question. Were these specific BPOs being removed by CCP ONLY available via the in-game market in Dust? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5220	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:02:00 - [20] - Quote You guys are probably wondering why I'm constantly asking the same question even though you already answered it for me. There is a reason for this. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 155	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:05:00 - [21] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In game market These BPO were never in any merc packs and i bought nearly all of them at one time or another If i get the AUR back i wont be too fussed because like they said they will never be put back in, also from the sound of that we will never see items again even as non milita items which kinda sucks since they have variations which exist in EVE at least Get AUR buy boosters Yea, I'm kinda surprised that we will NEVER get passive shield resists, reps, 180mm plate, etc. ever again.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1509	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:05:00 - [22] - Quote I bought Packs and then used the AUR included in those packs to buy BPOs Level 1 Forum Warrior Hate Lord
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5220	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:07:00 - [23] - Quote Anarchide wrote: I bought Packs and then used the AUR included in those packs to buy BPOs But you paid money only for what was in those packs. Sony still can care less on what you do with that AUR. If you spent that AUR on these four particular BPOs and CCP is refunding them (all of it) to you, then you just got the AUR back. No problems here. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:09:00 - [24] - Quote As you can see people, this is the point I'm trying to make. You only purchased these BPOs with AUR. The AUR is what you spent your real money on. You're getting that AUR (all of it) back. Therefore, this whole thing is being overblown with threats of lawsuits and stuff like that. But of course, this still doesn't excuse why CCP went back on their word of never touching our BPOs in our inventory. Then again, they go back on a lot of things. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:15:00 - [25] - Quote Bump for exposure. I'm surprised Seymor or Yelsha haven't posted here so far. They're probably at work or something. Eventually they'll see this. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10470	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:20:00 - [26] - Quote +1 Op, I was going to say something similar but you laid it out far better, also I am sure I would have more heated replies and get called a troll again. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2242	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:21:00 - [27] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store Again, answer my question. Were these BPOs ONLY available via the in-game market which required you to first purchase AUR to get it with? If so, then CCP technically wasn't stealing from you. They gave you back the AUR you spent on the BPO for. Just like how Sony would refund you with either cash or store credit if they removed AUR from your wallet. If they were also available in the PSN Store "AS PART OF" of a merc pack (example: 'Toxin' SMG on the Merc Pack) and you spent real world $$$ for that, then you can say CCP robbed you. If they were available as part of a Merc Pack, which packs were they part of? Just one thing Sony does not allow real money refunds. The best refund you can get is psn money.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:23:00 - [28] - Quote UPDATED As of 21 Nov 2013 @ 19:16 Eve Time I just remembered. I still have the BPO of the Yellow Stamina Mod known as the Cardiac Stimulant. It use to have an ISK equivalent back then, but then that ISK variant got removed because it later became obsolete due to the Green Stamina Mod you all know as the Cardiac Regulator. But I still have the BPO. On top of that, it still has the same exact stats as before and I can still fit it if I want. Interesting how the plot thickens. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10470	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:23:00 - [29] - Quote Anarchide wrote: I bought Packs and then used the AUR included in those packs to buy BPOs Aurum is not serialized like a bit coin is. Also what you do with an item once you have it is entirely at your own fault. Like you trashed the BPOs from the same pack or traded (if trading is allowed) for a butt load of isk, you are at fault to what happens to that item. So because its ccp fault they have to remove the stuff you threw aurum away on, they're kind enough to refund it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 59	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:25:00 - [30] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: After some time of reflecting on recent events here in the forums, I came to the following conclusion. If any of you disagree with me, please speak now or forever hold your pee. ... If you were only able to purchase these BPOs using AUR acquired from the PSN Store then technically, using Yelsha's quote "Every time you buy something you make a contract with the seller" this means that you specifically agreed to pay X amount of real money for X amount of AUR. The seller could technically care less (or none at all) about what you intend to do with the AUR after that. If the same seller makes a sudden change to that AUR, you are entitled to a cash refund for that AUR. ... IF on the other hand you managed to purchase these particular BPOs "AS PART OF" a Merc Pack that was featuring it (example: a 'Toxin' SMG as part of a Merc Pack) by spending X amount of real world money to get that Merc Pack, then you have a case of sorts. ... Unfortunately this situation has already been broached and handled in EVE Online. In EVE they introduced PLEX which is a game representation of 30 day of subscription time. You pay real world money for the time card code you get from a vendor. the code "promises" x days of gameplay which is true if you use it directly for that. However CCP added another option where you can log into the game, enter the code and a PLEX virtual item appears in your item hangar in game. You can then sell or trade this in the game as you please. It can be scammed off you, it can be lost, it can be destroyed... So the "promise" of game time for money represents the same situation you are describing, a promise of something in the game (BPO) for real money (AUR). However this situation of money for services NOT rendered when a PLEX is destroyed in game has been brought up in EVE and shot down before. This BPO situation is no different.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:25:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: +1 Op, I was going to say something similar but you laid it out far better, also I am sure I would have more heated replies and get called a troll again. Given your position, I'm certain many would have called you CCP's Pet. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10470	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:26:00 - [32] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store Again, answer my question. Were these BPOs ONLY available via the in-game market which required you to first purchase AUR to get it with? If so, then CCP technically wasn't stealing from you. They gave you back the AUR you spent on the BPO for. Just like how Sony would refund you with either cash or store credit if they removed AUR from your wallet. If they were also available in the PSN Store "AS PART OF" of a merc pack (example: 'Toxin' SMG on the Merc Pack) and you spent real world $$$ for that, then you can say CCP robbed you. If they were available as part of a Merc Pack, which packs were they part of? Just one thing Sony does not allow real money refunds. The best refund you can get is psn money. This was done back when shady people tried to use digital services like the PSN store to launder/print money from other people. The most recent victim of this widespread enough to wind up on the news was a soccer game with its trading cards on xbox live where the scammers managed to seize accounts buy large numbers of these trading cards to give to their own accounts which at then was sold those for real money over an auction website. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:27:00 - [33] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After some time of reflecting on recent events here in the forums, I came to the following conclusion. If any of you disagree with me, please speak now or forever hold your pee. ... If you were only able to purchase these BPOs using AUR acquired from the PSN Store then technically, using Yelsha's quote "Every time you buy something you make a contract with the seller" this means that you specifically agreed to pay X amount of real money for X amount of AUR. The seller could technically care less (or none at all) about what you intend to do with the AUR after that. If the same seller makes a sudden change to that AUR, you are entitled to a cash refund for that AUR. ... IF on the other hand you managed to purchase these particular BPOs "AS PART OF" a Merc Pack that was featuring it (example: a 'Toxin' SMG as part of a Merc Pack) by spending X amount of real world money to get that Merc Pack, then you have a case of sorts. ... Unfortunately this situation has already been broached and handled in EVE Online. In EVE they introduced PLEX which is a game representation of 30 day of subscription time. You pay real world money for the time card code you get from a vendor. the code "promises" x days of gameplay which is true if you use it directly for that. However CCP added another option where you can log into the game, enter the code and a PLEX virtual item appears in your item hangar in game. You can then sell or trade this in the game as you please. It can be scammed off you, it can be lost, it can be destroyed... So the "promise" of game time for money represents the same situation you are describing, a promise of something in the game (BPO) for real money (AUR). However this situation of money for services NOT rendered when a PLEX is destroyed in game has been brought up in EVE and shot down before. This BPO situation is no different. I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1510	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:32:00 - [34] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: UPDATED As of 21 Nov 2013 @ 19:16 Eve Time I just remembered. I still have the BPO of the Yellow Stamina Mod known as the Cardiac Stimulant. It use to have an ISK equivalent back then, but then that ISK variant got removed because it later became obsolete due to the Green Stamina Mod you all know as the Cardiac Regulator. But I still have the BPO. On top of that, it still has the same exact stats as before and I can still fit it if I want. Interesting how the plot thickens. This. Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1308	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:39:00 - [35] - Quote OH SNAP, Take that all you whiners quick question: what are the stats of that yellow mod? "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:41:00 - [36] - Quote See I agree with what Maken Tosch is saying here. If you bought Aurum, that is what you paid real life money for. This means you are entitled to however much Aurum you bought. If you then used that virtual currency to buy something on the market, CCP has every right to refund you that virtual currency when removing said items. CCP does not have the right to remove the Aurum that you purchased though. On the other hand, if you spent real life money on a pack/collectors edition, there was no middle man. You directly purchased the BPO/item and as such if CCP wanted to remove those items, they would need to refund you PSN credits, or in the case of the collectors edition, real life currency. Removal in case #1 is handled solely within the confines of the in-game world. Removal in case #2 is much more complicated, and involves a business practice called "bait and switch" which is illegal in most countries. an easy fix to Matchmaking
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5223	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:45:00 - [37] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: See I agree with what Maken Tosch is saying here. If you bought Aurum, that is what you paid real life money for. This means you are entitled to however much Aurum you bought. If you then used that virtual currency to buy something on the market, CCP has every right to refund you that virtual currency when removing said items. CCP does not have the right to remove the Aurum that you purchased though. On the other hand, if you spent real life money on a pack/collectors edition, there was no middle man. You directly purchased the BPO/item and as such if CCP wanted to remove those items, they would need to refund you PSN credits, or in the case of the collectors edition, real life currency. Removal in case #1 is handled solely within the confines of the in-game world. Removal in case #2 is much more complicated, and involves a business practice called "bait and switch" which is illegal in most countries. Thank you. And once again, I want to remind everyone here that Sony doesn't give a damn what you intended to do with the AUR when you bought it from Sony. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5224	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:57:00 - [38] - Quote It's really nice to see this thread not going out of control yet. Let's hope it stays that way. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 60	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:13:00 - [39] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. I don't believe you do. I was drawing a parallel to another situation that would indicate the outcome of this situation as they are the same thing. Real money for game item being lost vs. real money for game item lost. Just that in the second version (the DUST one) they are being nice enough to refund some AUR for it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:16:00 - [40] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. I don't believe you do. I was drawing a parallel to another situation that would indicate the outcome of this situation as they are the same thing. Real money for game item being lost vs. real money for game item lost. Just that in the second version (the DUST one) they are being nice enough to refund some AUR for it. I actually do. But I was wanting this to be just about the BPOs and not get PLEX mixed up because there will be many players who will just get caught up arguing whether BPOs and PLEX are the same and I can't have that kind of distraction on my thread. Please understand as I don't want this thread to get derailed. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:38:00 - [41] - Quote Ninja Bump CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:51:00 - [42] - Quote I'm surprised no one has come up with a valid counterpoint to my OP. Am I actually right for once? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5230	Posted - 2013.11.22 03:40:00 - [43] - Quote Does this mean there is no counterpoint to my post? There has to be one internet lawyer out there that disagrees at least. Isn't there? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Thanatus Sleep 10	Posted - 2013.11.22 04:31:00 - [44] - Quote Same crap I read yesterday,It just now in one topic and in one post. Nothing new here. Edit:Free Bump *Im a sad merc* Aq-Rg
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 202	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:31:00 - [45] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Does this mean there is no counterpoint to my post? There has to be one internet lawyer out there that disagrees at least. Isn't there? naw your right, but unfortunatly it doesnt matter because the idiots complained because they dont have reading comprehension skills. so subsequantly they wont understand the explaination of why they are idiots either.
Lorhak Gannarsein 627	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:41:00 - [46] - Quote Free Bump! Also, because no-one explicitly stated, and, as possessor of the four BPOs in question, I can answer it entirely - YES. These four modules were purchasable with AUR only. They, like all other Militia-grade BPOs, were not offered via any of CCP's PSN packs. EDIT: Also Also, you should add Seymor's name to the title too EDIT EDIT: If you could put the explicit positive confirmation in OP, too, that would be helpful as far as making a single cohesive argument is concerned XD (which is not to say that this is not.)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5236	Posted - 2013.11.22 07:05:00 - [47] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Free Bump! Also, because no-one explicitly stated, and, as possessor of the four BPOs in question, I can answer it entirely - YES. These four modules were purchasable with AUR only. They, like all other Militia-grade BPOs, were not offered via any of CCP's PSN packs. EDIT: Also Also, you should add Seymor's name to the title too EDIT EDIT: If you could put the explicit positive confirmation in OP, too, that would be helpful as far as making a single cohesive argument is concerned XD (which is not to say that this is not.) Yeah. Lol I referenced yelsha in particular because he is the one who claimed to actually have filed a legitimate court claim against CCP via some UK fair trade court system. If my argument is correct, which it seems it is, then that claim will not go well for this guy. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:33:00 - [48] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I'm surprised no one has come up with a valid counterpoint to my OP. Am I actually right for once? Your claim is not correct. Only if CCP offered different payment methods would your point be valid. When the only option to purchase in game items is in game currency, then CCP cannot dictate that refunds are only given in in game currency. I had to exchange my money, which is valid currency in several countries, to their own digital currency in order to purchase items they advertised as permanent. When they remove said items, they are liable to give me my valid currency back which I can use outside this game. I didn't buy AUR to have AUR, I bought it because it was the only method to obtain their advertised items. This is the same as if a store only allowed payments with their own voucher. You would have to change your money at the door to their store vouchers that are only valid in their store. If they then go an terminate a contract, they are liable to exchange your voucher back to valid currency because the only reason you exchanged to their voucher was to purchase an item they later removed from stock. If this was allowed, retailers could effectively "trap" customers and force them to make purchases in their store and never worry about having to refund or lose sales. Just advertise an item, make people purchase their vouchers, remove item from stock and refund store credit only. Brilliant. Seriously, look at it this way: CCP sells items that are advertised as permanent The only way to purchase these items is to exchange valid currency to in game currency 3000 players purchase $5 worth of BPOGÇÖs, creating $15,000.00 revenue for CCP CCP removes these items from the game and dictates that refunds are in game currency only CCP profit $15,000.00, cost $0.00 for refunds (AUR does not cost anything to CCP) Players donGÇÖt have the items they purchased or the money they used to purchase them and are left with in game currency which is valid only in game Some players might be happy with AUR refund, it is not illegal to offer store credit as compensation if customer is happy to use the credit on other items. But if the customer is not happy with store credit, if the store offers nothing of interest, then the trader is liable to refund in cash or exchange to similar item. Consumer cannot be penalized on matters out of their control. If CCP offered both real world currency payments (micro transactions with $) and the option to purchase in game currency (AUR) then it would be within their right to refund according to payment method. Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 423	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:37:00 - [49] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: So, again... Were these four particular BPOs only available from within the in-game market in Dust which required you to first purchase AUR from Sony? Yes or No? In game market only, Yes, you had to buy AUR, which is what you owned. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 141	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:49:00 - [50] - Quote I am not particularly upset at the decision, but the problem is, the aurum would be useful as a refund if there were other BPO's to buy - there aren't. The only worthwhile thing you can buy with aurum now is boosters. If you ask most people who bought aurum, I can guarantee you the top three things on their shopping list were not expendable modules, suits and vehicles. They were boosters and BPO's. These are the people who finance the game in the end and decisions like this should be thought out more carefully.

Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 423	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:06:00 - [51] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. But the modules that those BPO's represent are disappearing. So, do you want to keep BPO's that you can't use? I have lots of BPO's, I'm thankful that I will be getting approx 45K AUR for them (across all chars). I don't want BPO's I can't use cluttering my inventory. Thank you CCP. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:39:00 - [52] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. But the modules that those BPO's represent are disappearing. So, do you want to keep BPO's that you can't use? I have lots of BPO's, I'm thankful that I will be getting approx 45K AUR for them (across all chars). I don't want BPO's I can't use cluttering my inventory. Thank you CCP. CCP cannot make items redundant. At the time I purchased these items they were advertised as having certain affects and to be permanent. This is what I paid for. CCP could just modify the items so long as their purpose or functionality is not drastically changed (e.g. shield booster suddenly gives 1HP/pulse or instead of vehicles they work on lamp posts) and IGÇÖm sure most people would be fine with that. If the item is drastically changed or removed entirely I am entitled to a refund. And CCP cannot dictate that refund. They can offer me store credit (AUR), similar item (not available) or cash. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5241	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:50:00 - [53] - Quote @Sleepy Finally, someone who offers a good counterpoint to my OP. Your point does seem rather valid I admit. But I got a question for you on what you pointed out in regards to CCP selling "nothing of interest" in your opinion. What may not be of interest to you, may be an interest to another player. Therefore something of interest is a very subjective term. As you pointed out already and as made apparent by those posting here, many of us here still find interest in some of what CCP has to offer. I find AUR suits, weapons, modules to be of interest even if they're not permanent items. They help me save ISK for example. The boosters are also of interest to me because I can gain SP faster which, if applied onto the right skill books, can turn my seemingly weak starter suits into effective killing machines for their class. Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. On top of that, there is a possibility that CCP might offer something of interesting later on in the future that we haven't seen before. One idea that comes to mind is the ability to convert the AUR into AUR Tokens and trade the AUR Tokens for ISK to other players who have boatloads of ISK. Eve Online players have the ability to buy and sell AUR Tokens amongst each other, but just like AUR in Dust, AUR in Eve has to be injected into the economy via one of the players paying cash directly to CCP for that Token. Ok, I'm going to have to go against my own wishes here and bring PLEX into this discussion. Jadd Hatchen posted a reply in this thread early on stating that PLEX brought about a similar case. Only this time, PLEX could be lost by simply getting scammed by a player, destroyed while in transit, trashing it, or deleting your character that has it in its inventory. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1519001#post1519001 Quote: Unfortunately this situation has already been broached and handled in EVE Online. In EVE they introduced PLEX which is a game representation of 30 day of subscription time. You pay real world money for the time card code you get from a vendor. the code "promises" x days of gameplay which is true if you use it directly for that. However CCP added another option where you can log into the game, enter the code and a PLEX virtual item appears in your item hangar in game. You can then sell or trade this in the game as you please. It can be scammed off you, it can be lost, it can be destroyed... So the "promise" of game time for money represents the same situation you are describing, a promise of something in the game (BPO) for real money (AUR). However this situation of money for services NOT rendered when a PLEX is destroyed in game has been brought up in EVE and shot down before. This BPO situation is no different. @Jadd Well, it looks like it finally got to the point where PLEX and Dust AUR are now talked about in this thread. Let's hope we don't confuse too many people here with it. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:07:00 - [54] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @Sleepy Finally, someone who offers a good counterpoint to my OP. Your point does seem rather valid I admit. But I got a question for you on what you pointed out in regards to CCP selling "nothing of interest" in your opinion. What may not be of interest to you, may be an interest to another player. Therefore something of interest is a very subjective term. As you pointed out already and as made apparent by those posting here, many of us here still find interest in some of what CCP has to offer. I find AUR suits, weapons, modules to be of interest even if they're not permanent items. They help me save ISK for example. The boosters are also of interest to me because I can gain SP faster which, if applied onto the right skill books, can turn my seemingly weak starter suits into effective killing machines for their class. Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. On top of that, there is a possibility that CCP might offer something of interesting later on in the future that we haven't seen before. One idea that comes to mind is the ability to convert the AUR into AUR Tokens and trade the AUR Tokens for ISK to other players who have boatloads of ISK. Eve Online players have the ability to buy and sell AUR Tokens amongst each other, but just like AUR in Dust, AUR in Eve has to be injected into the economy via one of the players paying cash directly to CCP for that Token. It is subjective but because the contract is terminated by CCP, not me, I am the one who can choose the preferred method of compensation. This goes for anyone the removal of BPO's concern. Likewise if I choose not to use the item, or feel it isnGÇÖt what I wanted after all, CCP is in no way liable to compensate me. If I wanted to sell the item back, CCP is in no way obliged to pay me the full retail price. And so on and so forth... CCP is allowed to offer blanket compensation to make matters easy (everyone getting their AUR back) but it is still disputable. A player can contact CCP, inform them that they are not happy with the compensation and try to work things out with CCP. If CCP's offers of store credit, another item or the like do not satisfy the player, then CCP must refund cash. I use AUR items from time to time but I still have a boat load of it. I am not going to jump at CCP because they are removing two BPOGÇÖs from me, though as I have mentioned I am upset about it. I will let it slide, I will not demand a cash refund. I have purchased items in game because I like the game and I want to support it. I donGÇÖt mean that CCP needs to start refunding everyone right now, IGÇÖm just pointing out that consumers have rights and CCP cannot dictate the terms. People on this forum have been obscenely rude to people trying to defend their rights (I'm not meaning you here, just generally). But I will also not stand idly by if CCP tries to remove more BPOGÇÖs. I have my limits .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:36:00 - [55] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. Sorry, didnGÇÖt really address this, my bad. Or maybe I did, I don't know... But anyway, this is in addition to my above post. While the consumer is entitled to a refund or compensation, they are not entitled to a refund of their choosing or of greater value. For example a BPO MLT shield module is not equal to BPO LAV or paying $5 for the BPO does not entitle you to a refund of $10.00 because GÇ£you feel inconveniencedGÇ¥. As a consumer you are entitled to store credit or cash refund of the paid amount or an equal item. CCP (or any store) can offer different items if they so wish (to make happy customers for example) but they are not obliged to do so. Store credit can only be exchanged to items in said store. So if the customer does not find anything they desire in the store, and this is one's personal opinion only, they are entitled to a cash refund. I may or may not be rambling at this point. I may or may not need a beer. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 139	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:52:00 - [56] - Quote Didn't realize only lawyers played this game... Oh wait. This argument is simply put, stupid. The pathos or logic why it is legally permissable may or may not be found in the EULA or terms of service, but that is not what I am making claims on. It is the ethos, the ethical qualifications of this action that are dubios. If the modules can't be used, then invent new appropriate equivalents, or make a direct refund as PSN. Regardless if CCP wrote in to cover there asses beforehand, it does not mean it is good business practice. And even though this isn't for huge cost items, that does not negate the negligence of CCP in this debacle.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5242	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. Sorry, didnGÇÖt really address this, my bad. Or maybe I did, I don't know... But anyway, this is in addition to my above post. While the consumer is entitled to a refund or compensation, they are not entitled to a refund of their choosing or of greater value. For example a BPO MLT shield module is not equal to BPO LAV or paying $5 for the BPO does not entitle you to a refund of $10.00 because GÇ£you feel inconveniencedGÇ¥. As a consumer you are entitled to store credit or cash refund of the paid amount or an equal item. CCP (or any store) can offer different items if they so wish (to make happy customers for example) but they are not obliged to do so. Store credit can only be exchanged to items in said store. So if the customer does not find anything they desire in the store, and this is one's personal opinion only, they are entitled to a cash refund. I may or may not be rambling at this point. I may or may not need a beer. In that case, what do you make of Yelsha's effort to file a legal complaint against CCP? What do you think of his idea of compensation such as the Master Recruiter CII Dropsuit, which is an item that has no aurum value and is a dropsuit item (not a vehicle one)? Do you think he even has a snowball's chance in hell that he could succeed? What do you think of the plex case brought up by Jadd? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 23:01:00 - [58] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: In that case, what do you make of Yelsha's effort to file a legal complaint against CCP? What do you think of his idea of compensation such as the Master Recruiter CII Dropsuit, which is an item that has no aurum value and is a dropsuit item (not a vehicle one)? Do you think he even has a snowball's chance in hell that he could succeed? What do you think of the plex case brought up by Jadd? Contacting local consumer protection office to get free advice is fine, you should make sure if youGÇÖre right about your claim. IGÇÖm sure they said to him more or less the same I said here. He only needs legal help if CCP refuses to either offer a suitable item in return or refund cash (since it seems he is not willing to accept AUR). And he can ask for whatever he wants but CCP is not obliged to comply if his request isnGÇÖt within reason. If he is asking for one dropsuit, that is not a BPO, then why shouldnGÇÖt CCP agree :D it is actually inferior as when he dies, he loses it. If itGÇÖs a BPO, then no it is not within reason as the suit is vastly superior to the BPO he loses. If he remains unreasonable, CCP can just refund him money and he cannot complain or dispute it again. Cash is final and the GÇ£debtGÇ¥ is settled. I donGÇÖt know much about PLEX (I donGÇÖt play EVE) but the item seems GÇ£either orGÇ¥. Either you use it to extend your subscription to EVE or you use it as a token to receive in game items. Now, again, I donGÇÖt know how EVE works. Can your BPOGÇÖs be stolen? And I thought there was only one BPO ship, or am I wrong? If the item was not sold as permanent (meaning no matter what you do you cannot lose it) the no, you donGÇÖt have any grounds to demand compensation if you lose it. I donGÇÖt know how CCP introduced the new feature to the PLEX so I cannot say if players had any grounds to demand a refund. And in what circumstance did they demand a refund anyway? After losing the ship? Or after using their PLEX to get in game items only to notice they couldnGÇÖt use it to a subscription? .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 14	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:12:00 - [59] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Bump for exposure. I'm surprised Seymor or Yelsha haven't posted here so far. They're probably at work or something. Eventually they'll see this. seymor hasn't posted because ccp has him bound and gaged in a dark room until December 5th.....but if he could speak he would probably say something like this: do you remember contact nades? remember what ccp did to them? nerfed them with no credit. then they promise not to take bpo's then they do. my point.... ccp has treated my business poorly. for me its not a question of whether or not they can do these things, but should they? and where does it stop? can I ever trust to purchase anything from them again. I have been a loyal fan for a long time.... I feel betrayed. theres a lot of underhanded crap companies pull all the time that they legally get away with. so, great.... ccp is just as scummy as them.... pfft SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Thanatus Sleep 17	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:23:00 - [60] - Quote Why don't you guys just stop playing if you know CCP going to rip you off and have bad customer service. I thought Dust Vet know this game was going keep changing to the point it ** you off so you just have to HTFU. Don't look like it anymore. Im a sad merc** Aq-Rg

Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 29	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:24:00 - [61] - Quote I just used Aurum for boosters so it doesn't bother me. Also, if the modules won't work why do you want them? You would end up with a dropsuit that had a bunch of blue squares on it that did nothing, and I am sure if that happened just as many people (or maybe the same people) would be complaining because "I spent real life money for modules that gave bonuses, not worthless blue squares! Give me full dren set or I'll SUEEEEEEEE!!111!11!!!!eleven!!."
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5259	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:49:00 - [62] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: And he can ask for whatever he wants but CCP is not obliged to comply if his request isnGÇÖt within reason. If he is asking for one dropsuit, that is not a BPO, then why shouldnGÇÖt CCP agree :D it is actually inferior as when he dies, he loses it. If itGÇÖs a BPO, then no it is not within reason as the suit is vastly superior to the BPO he loses. If he remains unreasonable, CCP can just refund him money and he cannot complain or dispute it again. Cash is final and the GÇ£debtGÇ¥ is settled. I donGÇÖt know much about PLEX (I donGÇÖt play EVE) but the item seems GÇ£either orGÇ¥. Either you use it to extend your subscription to EVE or you use it as a token to receive in game items. Now, again, I donGÇÖt know how EVE works. Can your BPOGÇÖs be stolen? And I thought there was only one BPO ship, or am I wrong? If the item was not sold as permanent (meaning no matter what you do you cannot lose it) the no, you donGÇÖt have any grounds to demand compensation if you lose it. I donGÇÖt know how CCP introduced the new feature to the PLEX so I cannot say if players had any grounds to demand a refund. And in what circumstance did they demand a refund anyway? After losing the ship? Or after using their PLEX to get in game items only to notice they couldnGÇÖt use it to a subscription? Your first paragraph: Yes, the dropsuit item he is requesting as compensation is a BPO according to the Dust 514 "Recruit Your Friends" page: Recruits/Permanent Item Rewarded/Skill Booster Rewarded 1 Staff Recruiter Assault Dropsuit Staff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 2 Staff Recruiter Assault Rifle Staff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 3 Staff Recruiter Scrambler Pistol Staff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 4 Staff Recruiter Sniper Rifle Staff Recruiter Active Booster (1-day) 5 Staff Recruiter Laser Rifle Staff Recruiter Active Booster (3-day) 10 Senior Recruiter Assault C-I Dropsuit Senior Recruiter Active Booster (7-day) 25 Senior Recruiter Light Assault Vehicle Senior Recruiter Active Booster (15-day) 50 Master Recruiter Assault C-II Dropsuit Master Recruiter Active Booster (30-day) Your second Paragraph: Technically, there are BPOs in Eve Online, but they only cost ISK as they are not AURUM items. But they do have a material requirement in order to use it. They are permanent in the context of having unlimited production use. However, they can be... A) Destroyed if stored in the cargo hold of the ship that is destroyed in battle (I can attack you without provocation). B) Stolen from you (theft within Eve Online is perfectly legal). C) Swindled from you by a scammer (scamming is perfectly legal within Eve Online as well) The same can be said for the PLEX items. However, the PLEX items require cash in order to be injected into the in-game market where it can either be A) traded away for more ISK or B) redeemed within the game for game time. Also, PLEX is not a permanent item. It can change hands an infinite amount of times during trade, but it can only be redeemed once for 30 days of game time by the last person who received it. And unlike the BPOs in Dust, the PLEX in Eve don't have a middle man. They can be bought directly from CCP but you can also find them in Amazon I believe. Your third paragraph: Only after losing the ship did some of them tried to demand a refund. But the only people who demanded such refunds were players who were completely new to the game and the concept behind PLEX. After a while, they gave up trying after realizing it was their fault as players for not being careful with them in a universe full of egomaniacs, sociopaths, masochists, sadists, and even corporate spies and outlaws. Hauling PLEX in a ship unfit to survive a short attack in high-sec space filled with such players is like parking your Rolls Royce in the hood. Don't expect anyone to NOT do anything. Oh, just so you know, scamming, corporate theft, espionage, and all that fun stuff is already legal here in Dust. Once player-to-player trading is introduced to Dust, I expect a lot of players to pump out tears when they realized they sold their most prized possessions to another player for just 0.01 ISK. Just like how it happens in Eve. But that will probably be a year from now. A TL;DR on How Plex Works: Player A ($$$)----> CCP CCP (PLEX)----> Player A Player A (Trades PLEX)----> Player B -Or -Player A (Redeems PLEX)----> 30 day game time -Or -Player A (Converts PLEX)----> "X" amount of AURUM -AURUM is used to purchase "permanent" vanity items (ie: a monocle). CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 23	Posted - 2013.11.23 04:12:00 - [63] - Quote bump because reasons SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Meeko Fent Commando Perkone Caldari State 1669	Posted - 2013.11.23 04:29:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: In regards to BPOs: we are removing and refunding a few specific AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore. We have no plans for the immediate future to touch other blueprints. [...] 4800 AUR Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier 4800 AUR Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint Yeah... I think most everybody completely forget to read that bit right there. Refunding a few AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5261	Posted - 2013.11.23 04:35:00 - [65] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: CCP Frame wrote: In regards to BPOs: we are removing and refunding a few specific AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore. We have no plans for the immediate future to touch other blueprints. [...] 4800 AUR Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier 4800 AUR Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint Yeah... I think most everybody completely forget to read that bit right there. But I still have my bpo cardiac stimulant from long ago. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 30	Posted - 2013.11.23 05:28:00 - [66] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: CCP Frame wrote: In regards to BPOs: we are removing and refunding a few specific AUR militia Blueprints pertaining to vehicles because their respective modules will not exist anymore. We have no plans for the immediate future to touch other blueprints. [...] 4800 AUR Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint 4800 AUR Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier 4800 AUR Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint Yeah... I think most everybody completely forget to read that bit right there. But I still have my bpo cardiac stimulant from long ago. meeko we read it... they chose to make them useless. it wasn't the only choice, they are doing this to get rid of our bpo's under the guise of changes for balance. and seriously you really think these changes are gonna be the last ones? you think dust is gonna run smoothly after this? what part of this are you not getting? this opens the door to remove all our bpo's SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:24:00 - [67] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Yes, the dropsuit item he is requesting as compensation is a BPO according to the Dust 514 "Recruit Your Friends" page: Your third paragraph: Only after losing the ship did some of them tried to demand a refund. But the only people who demanded such refunds were players who were completely new to the game and the concept behind PLEX. After a while, they gave up trying after realizing it was their fault as players for not being careful with them in a universe full of egomaniacs, sociopaths, masochists, sadists, and even corporate spies and outlaws. Hauling PLEX in a ship unfit to survive a short attack in high-sec space filled with such players is like parking your Rolls Royce in the hood. Don't expect anyone to NOT do anything. Oh, just so you know, scamming, corporate theft, espionage, and all that fun stuff is already legal here in Dust. Once player-to-player trading is introduced to Dust, I expect a lot of players to pump out tears when they realized they sold their most prized possessions to another player for just 0.01 ISK. Just like how it happens in Eve. But that will probably be a year from now. Then it cannot be considered reasonable and he is not entitled to it. He can kick and scream until his lungs fall out, but CCP is not obliged to give him that item in return. CCP can, if they deem his business worthy, but I doubt thatGÇÖll ever happen. They seem to hate BPOGÇÖs at the moment and giving someone more of them doesnGÇÖt sound like something theyGÇÖd do. Corporation cannot be held liable for everything (at least in Europe, US still kinda freaks me out with the mad law suits) and consumers have responsibility too. If CCP has made it clear what the world of New Eden is like (everything you mentioned) it is consumers responsibility to read everything carefully before spending any money. The situation with our BPOGÇÖs and EVEGÇÖs PLEX shenanigans is different because the party that sold us the BPOGÇÖs is removing them. In EVE players lost their stuff to other players by making stupid decisions. CCP is not responsible for that, so long as it has made it clear to new players it is perfectly possible to lose everything you have in game. If CCP itself had removed those items you got with PLEX then they would be liable to refund. It is going to be interesting when we get the player market. I would love to get my hands on some items but I think, at least in the beginning, I will only trade with my corp mates and friends (yes, IGÇÖm a coward). And I want vanity items for DUST!! CCP come on, make these and I will throw money at you! .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 410	Posted - 2013.11.23 08:26:00 - [68] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: UPDATED As of 23 Nov 2013 @ 01:56 Eve Time Behold, a sensible discussion on the topic truly begins here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1521167#post1521167 UPDATED As of 21 Nov 2013 @ 19:16 Eve Time I just remembered. I still have the BPO of the Yellow Stamina Mod known as the Cardiac Stimulant. It use to have an ISK equivalent back then, but then that ISK variant got removed because it later became obsolete due to the Green Stamina Mod you all know as the Cardiac Regulator. But I still have the BPO. On top of that, it still has the same exact stats as before and I can still fit it if I want. Interesting how the plot thickens. Thats not plot thicken thats CCP is too lazy to change the item id.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 131	Posted - 2013.11.23 10:36:00 - [69] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: As you can see people, this is the point I'm trying to make. You only purchased these BPOs with AUR. The AUR is what you spent your real money on. You're getting that AUR (all of it) back. Therefore, this whole thing is being overblown with threats of lawsuits and stuff like that. But of course, this still doesn't excuse why CCP went back on their word of never touching our BPOs in our inventory. Then again, they go back on a lot of things. Technically, they did go against their word, but in the EULA, it states that they can update the game (among other things.) Technically, they can change it without notice. At least they tell us, you know? I am the Horseless Headsman. Director and COO of We Who Walk Alone Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 3876	Posted - 2013.11.23 10:50:00 - [70] - Quote So, let me get this straight We're advocating that items that no longer exist on either ISK or Aurum markets remain in game despite being a legacy item that is no longer compatible with the game..? That's like saying that you want to keep a Motorolla Razor when your cell phone provider offers to buy it off you, cash in hand, under the stipulation that the phone will no longer work after a certain date. So they went back on the word - that's what happens in game design. Hell, it's what happens in -all- creative design worlds. It changes so rapidly that most people can't keep up. There's a player who's part of our community who dropped out of college for Game Design because Astrophysics was easier. Just saying. ANON Diplomat -//- I Support SP Rollover ^_^

Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 692	Posted - 2013.11.23 12:09:00 - [71] - Quote I've been away so this is all new to me. It is an interesting situation/discussion. Personally, my only complain is that my only incentive to buy AUR (besides supporting the game) was to buy BPOs. I'm not interested in subscriptions games or real money consumables. BPOs seemed like a nice middle ground. Sure it makes sense to remove BPOs that are no longer part of the game and refund players with AUR. The only problem is that there are no BPOs to purchase with that AUR since that part of the market has apparently been phased out. I'm less worried about the legality of the situation than I am of customer satisfaction.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5265	Posted - 2013.11.23 17:32:00 - [72] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: I've been away so this is all new to me. It is an interesting situation/discussion. Personally, my only complain is that my only incentive to buy AUR (besides supporting the game) was to buy BPOs. I'm not interested in subscriptions games or real money consumables. BPOs seemed like a nice middle ground. Sure it makes sense to remove BPOs that are no longer part of the game and refund players with AUR. The only problem is that there are no BPOs to purchase with that AUR since that part of the market has apparently been phased out. I'm less worried about the legality of the situation than I am of customer satisfaction. Well, there are technically other things offered for AUR such as the consumable AUR modules, suits, weapons, and vehicles as well as implants such as (passive/active) boosters. But as Sleepy and I pointed out pointed out early, what's considered "interesting" for a player to spend that AUR on is subjective. You might like the AUR modules, but not the boosters. You might like the boosters but not the rest. You might hate both as well. NOTE: Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116191&find=unread FoxFour wrote: All Dem Aurum Items So, you know how you can go to the market and buy Aurum variations of weapons and equipment? For the most part the only difference between these items and their ISK counterparts is that they have lower skill requirements. Pay Aurum, get into stuff with less skill points. Well it turns out this creates a really tricky thing to balance, and we don't want to have any pay-to-win issues. With that in mind why not make all those Aurum variants available in the loyalty store as well? So we did. It turns out it makes our lives a lot easier, gives you guys a whole lot of stuff to get from the loyalty store, and is just awesome all around. I am not going to go and list every Aurum item that will be in the loyalty store because that's a LONG list. I will however give you a brief breakdown of how those items will be distributed: [insert spreadsheet here] As you can see, the AUR modules, suits, weapons, etc. are being made available as LP items in the incoming Factional Warfare overhaul. I'm not sure if that means the AUR items in the current market will be removed and just converted into LP items or if the AUR items will remain while their LP counterparts will come in as a source for non-paying players. It remains to be seen which route they'll take, but if they go for the former then that means you AUR selection will be limited to just boosters once Factional Warfare overhaul arrives. But if they go for the latter, then you're good. What do you think? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5265	Posted - 2013.11.23 18:13:00 - [73] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: and seriously you really think these changes are gonna be the last ones? you think dust is gonna run smoothly after this? First question, I'm hopeful that they keep to their word this time. But as I said earlier they tend to go back on their word every now and then. Therefore I'll just have to wait and see what they do next. Second question, In terms of no more BPOs being injected into the market, yes. I'm a marketeer in Eve Online and I have spent countless months trying to analyze exactly how the Dust BPOs would best be incorporated into the incoming market without having a major impact on either Eve or Dust's future industry. So far, my observation has led me to conclude that the BPOs won't hurt the market much as long as two factors are taken into consideration: 1. The BPOs remain nothing more as militia level items. 2. No more BPOs are injected into the market via further purchases from CCP. This will become no different than the Tech II BPOs of Eve Online which are no longer available to acquire but still owned and traded by the extremely few players who own them or knows someone who does own them. In terms of the total removal of all BPOs even from our inventory, I still say yes from a technical standpoint. However, this is a bad idea as you and everyone else can clearly see. The players will not be happy and many more people will leave the game and ultimately the game will truly be dead because of it. So, the total removal of the BPOs is NOT in the best interest of either CCP or the players so I advise CCP to please consider leaving the rest of the BPOs alone. And considering that some of the BPOs we have have been acquired via the merc packs such as the 'Toxin' weapons, Templar suits, etc., I don't see CCP even trying considering the extremely complicated nature of doing so. It's still possible, but extremely unlikely. For those of you not in the know about Eve Online's Tech II BPOs, let me give you a run down. In Eve Online, there are two types of blueprints: BPOs and BPCs (originals and copies respectively). BPOs were only purchasable via ISK from the NPCs. The BPOs have unlimited production runs but they require materials to produce and they only produce Tech 1 items (equal to your STD items in Dust). The BPCs on the other hand are the same thing, except they have a limited production run and once that runs out the BPC will expire and you have to purchase a replacement. However, the BPCs have something the BPOs don't have: Efficiency. BPCs are extracted from BPOs as copies of the BPOs and then those copies are put through special facilities where they get researched to become more efficient in terms of production time and material requirements. The higher the Manufacturing Level, for example, the lower the material requirements. The same thing for the Production Level of the copies. Their ISK value in the secondary market is directly proportional to this factors. At one point early on in Eve's development, Tech 2 level BPOs which are equal to your advanced-level items in Dust were once introduced by CCP as special limited time only items. If I recall correctly, they were only made available via a lottery. Those lucky few to have them were given immense power. These BPOs offered two things that no other BPOs had: their ability to create T2 items directly and their status as novelty items that offered financial power. But then CCP realized that was a mistake they made. They didn't want to take them away since the players earned them fair and sqaure, so they introduced a process to alleviate the problem called "invention". Invention is a very special process that allows players who don't own the T2 BPOs by taking an existing T1 BPO and making it go through an extensive process to create a T2 BPC (limited-run copy). However, these facilities in Eve Online can only be made available by Eve players and these facilities are created, maintained, and controlled by players only. This allowed players to compete with the T2 BPO owners. The economy so far has suffered no negative impact since then, but the T2-BPO owners are still in very powerful positions because of these T2 BPOs. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Jason Pearson 3121	Posted - 2013.11.23 19:11:00 - [74] - Quote Still don't get the bitching, the four modules being removed are not being removed because they are BPOs, but because they do not fit with the 1.7 patch. You know what, if people are that mad about it, CCP, let them have the BPO that just sits in their inventory that cannot be used. There, you get to keep it :) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Only 120 Characters? Aww ¬_¬
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5266	Posted - 2013.11.23 20:57:00 - [75] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: Still don't get the bitching, the four modules being removed are not being removed because they are BPOs, but because they do not fit with the 1.7 patch. You know what, if people are that mad about it, CCP, let them have the BPO that just sits in their inventory that cannot be used. There, you get to keep it :) That's what gets me. I can't seem to understand how they don't work in 1.7. I'm not a vehicle pilot so I wouldn't know and therefore I need someone who is well versed in it to explain it to me. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Pvt Numnutz Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 294	Posted - 2013.11.23 21:07:00 - [76] - Quote When logibro said they weren't going to be removing peoples bpos he was referring to his comment about CCP thinking bpos were not working as intended. CCP frame was talking about how the mods won't exist and the specific bpos for those mods are going too, with aur being refunded. Two separate statements.
NomaDz 2K DUTY FR33 77	Posted - 2013.11.23 22:55:00 - [77] - Quote /\ B U M P
DUST 514 Player 12345678914 Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 566	Posted - 2013.11.23 23:04:00 - [78] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: I've been away so this is all new to me. It is an interesting situation/discussion. Personally, my only complain is that my only incentive to buy AUR (besides supporting the game) was to buy BPOs. I'm not interested in subscriptions games or real money consumables. BPOs seemed like a nice middle ground. Sure it makes sense to remove BPOs that are no longer part of the game and refund players with AUR. The only problem is that there are no BPOs to purchase with that AUR since that part of the market has apparently been phased out. I'm less worried about the legality of the situation than I am of customer satisfaction. I think this captures it. An AUR refund for an infinite use item where there is no new equivalent is not a refund. The fact that this all cost cash in the first place makes it feel pretty dodgy.
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 64	Posted - 2013.11.23 23:29:00 - [79] - Quote DUST 514 Player 12345678914 wrote: Moonracer2000 wrote: I've been away so this is all new to me. It is an interesting situation/discussion. Personally, my only complain is that my only incentive to buy AUR (besides supporting the game) was to buy BPOs. I'm not interested in subscriptions games or real money consumables. BPOs seemed like a nice middle ground. Sure it makes sense to remove BPOs that are no longer part of the game and refund players with AUR. The only problem is that there are no BPOs to purchase with that AUR since that part of the market has apparently been phased out. I'm less worried about the legality of the situation than I am of customer satisfaction. I think this captures it. An AUR refund for an infinite use item where there is no new equivalent is not a refund. The fact that this all cost cash in the first place makes it feel pretty dodgy. agreed SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5269	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:03:00 - [80] - Quote This still doesn't answer my question on how the BPOs being removed won't work in 1.7. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

NomaDz 2K DUTY FR33 78	Posted - 2013.11.24 00:48:00 - [81] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5270	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:21:00 - [82] - Quote NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 85	Posted - 2013.11.24 01:25:00 - [83] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. and the aur I bought with permanent items on the market is worth more than the aur they are giving me now with a market that has no permanent items. SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1358	Posted - 2013.11.24 02:05:00 - [84] - Quote CCP wrote: We say a lot of things. Cheeseburgers.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5271	Posted - 2013.11.24 07:13:00 - [85] - Quote xLuca Brasi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. and the aur I bought with permanent items on the market is worth more than the aur they are giving me now with a market that has no permanent items. I don't think English is your primary language judging by your post. Are you telling me that the aurum you're getting back is not the same amount of aurum you bought originally? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 95	Posted - 2013.11.24 07:36:00 - [86] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: xLuca Brasi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. and the aur I bought with permanent items on the market is worth more than the aur they are giving me now with a market that has no permanent items. I don't think English is your primary language judging by your post. Are you telling me that the aurum you're getting back is not the same amount of aurum you bought originally? lol...I wonder if English is yours since you still don't know who's alt this is.... its the same amount , 4800 but 4800 aur in a market without permanent items for sale is not woth as much as 4800 aur in a market WITH permanent items for sale. when I bought my aur I was able to buy items of a higher value than I can now. all the items on the market now can be lost an item that can be lost isn't worth as much as an item that CAN'T be lost. would you pay 4800 aur for 1 aur proto suit? so since I cant get permanent items anymore: 1.my reason for buying the aur no longer exists 2. the value of the items on the market for aur are worth less making the aur less desirable making it worth less than it was when permanent items existed. SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Jason Pearson 3121	Posted - 2013.11.24 08:13:00 - [87] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Still don't get the bitching, the four modules being removed are not being removed because they are BPOs, but because they do not fit with the 1.7 patch. You know what, if people are that mad about it, CCP, let them have the BPO that just sits in their inventory that cannot be used. There, you get to keep it :) That's what gets me. I can't seem to understand how they don't work in 1.7. I'm not a vehicle pilot so I wouldn't know and therefore I need someone who is well versed in it to explain it to me. I need to read through the Vehicle Modules coming out of 1.7 but here's my first guesses - Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint Militia Plates that had too much PG to be used properly anyways, obviously doesn't fit in any more with what we have (might be removing 180mm plates?) We still have the 60 and 120mm iirc - Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint Nobody uses regenerators in the first place, and with the increased regen for 1.7 I'm guessing they're removing every regenerator. - Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier Okay, I use this on a Gunnlogi BPO fit (Costs me for the Turrets and the Hull, it's dumb.) but again it's quite possible they're removing them all. - Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint Seriously, did anyone use this? I mean be honest, again possible that the Diagnostic Modules are being removed. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Only 120 Characters? Aww ¬_¬
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.24 10:59:00 - [88] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. Didn't I cover this quite extensively? .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 919	Posted - 2013.11.24 11:15:00 - [89] - Quote Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.24 11:50:00 - [90] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 923	Posted - 2013.11.24 11:55:00 - [91] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. I know its not fair. I personally don't like DRM, but that's the way things work right now. Did you know that when you get a game on PSN or Steam, the same rules apply? This is why I never feel comfortable getting downloaded games unless they are cheap/free. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered. REMOVE ALL BPOs
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5271	Posted - 2013.11.24 13:15:00 - [92] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. Didn't I cover this quite extensively? That whole voucher comparison still assumes/depends on whether the courts will see aurum as either a currency conversion or simply an a product. You'll be surprised about how technicalities play a role in the courts. And yes, the court of law can often times make very little sense. Take the George Zimmerman case and compare that to another somewhat similar case of a black woman firing a warning shot against her abusing husband who was about to kill her. The only difference is that no one died in the second case but the woman got sentenced to twenty years just because she discharged the weapon. How's that for technicality? Keep in mind that both cases happened in the same state (Florida) in about the same year. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5271	Posted - 2013.11.24 13:26:00 - [93] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. I know its not fair. I personally don't like DRM, but that's the way things work right now. Did you know that when you get a game on PSN or Steam, the same rules apply? This is why I never feel comfortable getting downloaded games unless they are cheap/free. Did you know that in the USA whenever you purchase a movie or a video game you don't technically own them? You just simply bought the license to use them? That's why I often find it as a misnomer whenever I see a commercial telling me to own a copy today. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.24 14:08:00 - [94] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: NomaDz 2K wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store ^THIS Again, you never purchased the BPOs with cash directly. You purchased the aurum first in order to get the BPOs. Didn't I cover this quite extensively? That whole voucher comparison still assumes/depends on whether the courts will see aurum as either a currency conversion or simply an a product. You'll be surprised about how technicalities play a role in the courts. And yes, the court of law can often times make very little sense. Take the George Zimmerman case and compare that to another somewhat similar case of a black woman firing a warning shot against her abusing husband who was about to kill her. The only difference is that no one died in the second case but the woman got sentenced to twenty years just because she discharged the weapon. How's that for technicality? Keep in mind that both cases happened in the same state (Florida) in about the same year. Zimmermann is in the States while CCP operates in Europe and all disputes will be handled under UK law. I wouldnGÇÖt trust any court proceeding to be the same in the states. IGÇÖve read plenty of crazy lawsuits and even our coffee cups here have those silly warnings on them. Like I said before, CCP is allowed to offer a blanket compensation to make matters easy. This does not, nor has CCP stated so, mean that all other compensations are out the window. It would be too time consuming to ask everyone to send them mail individually and tell them what they want as compensation. When they do it like this, most will be happy with AUR and those that are not can contact CCP separately. If CCP thinks, or can prove, that they are not liable to refund anything other than AUR then I would like to see them first to state that and second show what law they base it on. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 390	Posted - 2013.11.24 15:43:00 - [95] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. The problem with your with your logic : CCP hasn't breached the contract. Yes if they indeed breach the contract, legal action being taken is liable. But they did not breach it. Also just to let you know, you views on refunds are flawed in general. Refunds are only a guarantee if the provider of respective services gives you that guarantee. Refunds aren't some magical law that applies to any and all products. And as stated in the EULA, they will not provide refunds on termination of any of their products or services. Meaning, you aren't entitled to a refund, ever. Even if you spent 5000$ on Dust 514 the day before they decide to scrap the whole game and stop services, you are screwed, for you accepted the terms of their contract.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:15:00 - [96] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. The problem with your with your logic : CCP hasn't breached the contract. Yes if they indeed breach the contract, legal action being taken is liable. But they did not breach it. Also just to let you know, you views on refunds are flawed in general. Refunds are only a guarantee if the provider of respective services gives you that guarantee. Refunds aren't some magical law that applies to any and all products. No, they are not. You should do a bit more reading if you think so, European Consumer Centre is a good start. EULA cannot and will never supersede law. CCP has breached the contract when they remove items that were sold as permanent. I bought an item in good faith and under the assumption that the item had certain effects and was permanent. When CCP changes this, which they are fully allowed to do, they are liable to compensate. I suggest you start reading my posts from this one. Quote: And as stated in the EULA, they will not provide refunds on termination of any of their products or services. Meaning, you aren't entitled to a refund, ever. Even if you spent 5000$ on Dust 514 the day before they decide to scrap the whole game and stop services, you are screwed, for you accepted the terms of their contract. And as I stated, discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. I have never said anyone is entitled to a compensation if CCP decides to stop developing and supporting this game. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 390	Posted - 2013.11.24 16:19:00 - [97] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: Nobody owns any BPOs anyway. We are all just leasing them from CCP until CCP takes them back (which they can do whenever they want, with or without warning). The magic of DRM, folks. You can't buy digital goods, only lease them, usually forever (but there are exceptions). Eventually, Tranquillity will shut down and what then? Will you expect CCP to refund all the money you spent on Dust/EVE? It makes no difference if itGÇÖs let or owned. BPOGÇÖs were let indefinitely, so if they are removed the contract is breached and CCP is liable to compensate. CCP can do whatever they want with the BPOGÇÖs, or any item in game, but it does not remove their liability to those who paid for them. And discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. The problem with your with your logic : CCP hasn't breached the contract. Yes if they indeed breach the contract, legal action being taken is liable. But they did not breach it. Also just to let you know, you views on refunds are flawed in general. Refunds are only a guarantee if the provider of respective services gives you that guarantee. Refunds aren't some magical law that applies to any and all products. No, they are not. You should do a bit more reading if you think so, European Consumer Centre is a good start. EULA cannot and will never supersede law. CCP has breached the contract when they remove items that were sold as permanent. I bought an item in good faith and under the assumption that the item had certain effects and was permanent. When CCP changes this, which they are fully allowed to do, they are liable to compensate. I suggest you start reading my posts from this one. Quote: And as stated in the EULA, they will not provide refunds on termination of any of their products or services. Meaning, you aren't entitled to a refund, ever. Even if you spent 5000$ on Dust 514 the day before they decide to scrap the whole game and stop services, you are screwed, for you accepted the terms of their contract. And as I stated, discontinuing the development and support of a game is vastly different from just removing items from it. I have never said anyone is entitled to a compensation if CCP decides to stop developing and supporting this game. You also bought those items under the pretense that "these items are subject to change at CCP's discretion". The product you purchased has changed, it no longer exists. Nothing was breached. You aren't liable to receive anything. CCP is taking the correct approach and refunding you for the amount that you payed for it, which was 4800 AUR per respective module. Edit - If CCP felt like it, they could remove every single module in the game, both AUR and ISK variants, and let you run around with empty suits. It seems to me your only gripe is that you aren't able to purchase and use certain "permanent" items, and trying to associate point of law with comparisons that have no contextual basis. They have every right to do what they did. If you feel otherwise, take legal action and I'll wish you the best of luck.
Jack Kittinger DUST University Ivy League 58	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:14:00 - [98] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Some players might be happy with AUR refund, it is not illegal to offer store credit as compensation if customer is happy to use the credit on other items. Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide...But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. Maken Tosch makes much more sense than users like Yelsa but I think he is playing devil's advocate and will invariably end up with egg on his face because he is using straightforward logic and solid arguments to justify the actions of CCP who, as they just showed with the removal of these modules use, care not for logic or making sense. What am I trying to say? Maken thanks for making this kinda thread with true discussion even if at the end of the day CCP does as CCP wishes... On the other hand, I second Sleepy's thoughts because today they take four, in three months they take one more, in one year after you and I are gone (The Walking Dead Season 2, MGS V, Real Life) they finally launch item trading and because they already took those BPO's some time ago they decide it's ok to turn your BPO's into consumables but you got 9999, so it's ok right? it's only common sense to say you signed the eula and shrug it off, right?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5272	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:20:00 - [99] - Quote Jack Kittinger wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Some players might be happy with AUR refund, it is not illegal to offer store credit as compensation if customer is happy to use the credit on other items. Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide...But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. Maken Tosch makes much more sense than users like Yelsa but I think he is playing devil's advocate and will invariably end up with egg on his face because he is using straightforward logic and solid arguments to justify the actions of CCP who, as they just showed with the removal of these modules use, care not for logic or making sense. What am I trying to say? Maken thanks for making this kinda thread with true discussion even if at the end of the day CCP does as CCP wishes... On the other hand, I second Sleepy's thoughts because today they take four, in three months they take one more, in one year after you and I are gone (The Walking Dead Season 2, MGS V, Real Life) they finally launch item trading and because they already took those BPO's some time ago they decide it's ok to turn your BPO's into consumables but you got 9999, so it's ok right? it's only common sense to say you signed the eula and shrug it off, right? Might as well. We did technically sign the contract although most of us who did didn't bother reading it. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5272	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:23:00 - [100] - Quote I wonder how much time it will take for me to burn through 9,999 suits. XD CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

Jack Kittinger DUST University Ivy League 58	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:27:00 - [101] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I wonder how much time it will take for me to burn through 9,999 suits. XD check KD stats, then extrapolate cause I'm sure you're well under 4k deaths
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5273	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:29:00 - [102] - Quote Just did the math. It will take me 22 hours to burn through 9,999 suits assuming I die 150 times per skirmish match and each match lasted 20 minutes. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5273	Posted - 2013.11.24 17:31:00 - [103] - Quote 222 hours of I only die 15 times a match. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 61	Posted - 2013.11.27 05:24:00 - [104] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: UPDATED As of 23 Nov 2013 @ 01:56 Eve Time Behold, a sensible discussion on the topic truly begins here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1521167#post1521167 UPDATED As of 21 Nov 2013 @ 19:16 Eve Time I just remembered. I still have the BPO of the Yellow Stamina Mod known as the Cardiac Stimulant. It use to have an ISK equivalent back then, but then that ISK variant got removed because it later became obsolete due to the Green Stamina Mod you all know as the Cardiac Regulator. But I still have the BPO. On top of that, it still has the same exact stats as before and I can still fit it if I want. Interesting how the plot thickens. Message from Godin: They said that they were going to remove those and give us a refund on those as well. I guess they forgot.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 103	Posted - 2013.12.12 06:45:00 - [105] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: [quote=Maken Tosch] - Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier Okay, I use this on a Gunnlogi BPO fit (Costs me for the Turrets and the Hull, it's dumb.) but again it's quite possible they're removing them all. Can I have your Gunnlogi BPO?
NomaDz 2K DUTY FR33 90	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:57:00 - [106] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: [quote=Maken Tosch] - Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier Okay, I use this on a Gunnlogi BPO fit (Costs me for the Turrets and the Hull, it's dumb.) but again it's quite possible they're removing them all. Can I have your Gunnlogi BPO? How about CCP can we have the items exchanged for something of equal value as in an in game BPO which still hasn't been removed yet but maybe SooN TM, like you did with the BPOs removed with the 1.7 without even having the decentcy of consulting us?
Zion Shad Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 2021	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:21:00 - [107] - Quote What is the total list of Vehicle BPOs taken away that players got from packs and did they receive AUR for them? That's that question Id be looking at Co-Owner of Multiplexgaming.com Co-Host of PODSIDE & MPXPrimetime
NomaDz 2K DUTY FR33 90	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:52:00 - [108] - Quote Zion Shad wrote: What is the total list of Vehicle BPOs taken away that players got from packs and did they receive AUR for them? That's that question Id be looking at They did get AUR back which the MAJORITY of the people did not Request, U C CCP FAILED to Reach an Agreement with those , like myself which purchase these BPOs with AUR using Real CA$H. I personally wanted my BPOs EXCHANGED for another BPO which is still in game. CCP could do this yet they neglect our satisfaction on their product. DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514 CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5883	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:47:00 - [109] - Quote NomaDz 2K wrote: Zion Shad wrote: What is the total list of Vehicle BPOs taken away that players got from packs and did they receive AUR for them? That's that question Id be looking at They did get AUR back which the MAJORITY of the people did not Request, U C CCP FAILED to Reach an Agreement with those , like myself which purchase these BPOs with AUR using Real CA$H. I personally wanted my BPOs EXCHANGED for another BPO which is still in game. CCP could do this yet they neglect our satisfaction on their product. @NomaDz You bought the AUR first with cash via Sony's PSN Store. According to Sony's transaction history, you paid cash only for the AUR. Sony doesn't care what you do with the AUR after you buy them. You then used the AUR to purchase the BPOs. If the BPOs you bought get removed from your inventory then you get a refund of the AUR (which you paid money for). Let's say I go to a store (let's call it Store A) that sells options A, B, and C. Store A requires a certain currency in order to purchase these options. Let's say it's plastic play coins like the ones you see in a toy store used for playing around with. Store B sells those plastic play coins. You purchase a bundle of plastic play coins from Store B and then go to Store A to purchase option C because that is the only option that interests you at the moment. But before purchasing from Store A you are first made to agree to the EULA is has regarding the options it sells. You are not allowed to enter if you don't accept the EULA. In this case, you accepted the EULA. But later on, Store B says they are no longer selling option C and they are making a forced recall of the option you bought due to a bad design it has. Because you bought that option with only the plastic play coins, the store gives you back the coins at the same amount you paid them in. Effectively a refund so that you can use it for all other options they offer. You then go back to Store B to get a cash refund of the coins you bought, but Store B refuses because the coins you bought were never taken away from you and you accepted the EULA established by Store A. The statement that I made about the BPOs is based on the EULAs and Terms of Services established by both Sony Online Entertainment and CCP Games. That is the evidence I have to support my statement. What evidence do you have to support yours? @Zion Shad None of the four specific vehicles BPOs that are being removed by CCP came from merc packs. They were only available via the in-game Dust market as individual items purchasable only with AUR. This was repeated countless times in this thread of mines which is why I repeated the question about it over and over again so that it is made clear to everyone. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?


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