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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:25:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: +1 Op, I was going to say something similar but you laid it out far better, also I am sure I would have more heated replies and get called a troll again. Given your position, I'm certain many would have called you CCP's Pet. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 10470	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:26:00 - [32] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: are you sure there isnt some precedence for this ? it looks like when you buy aur you are not in fact buying aur buy exchanging real time money for a virtual currency ...then you spend that virtual currency for virtual items in game to technically if ccp takes bpo's they are stealing from us..we exchanged our currency for aur which is just an ingame virtual currency ..then we purchased these bpos. we spent real money on those bpos doesnt matter if they were purchased in psn store or dust in game store Again, answer my question. Were these BPOs ONLY available via the in-game market which required you to first purchase AUR to get it with? If so, then CCP technically wasn't stealing from you. They gave you back the AUR you spent on the BPO for. Just like how Sony would refund you with either cash or store credit if they removed AUR from your wallet. If they were also available in the PSN Store "AS PART OF" of a merc pack (example: 'Toxin' SMG on the Merc Pack) and you spent real world $$$ for that, then you can say CCP robbed you. If they were available as part of a Merc Pack, which packs were they part of? Just one thing Sony does not allow real money refunds. The best refund you can get is psn money. This was done back when shady people tried to use digital services like the PSN store to launder/print money from other people. The most recent victim of this widespread enough to wind up on the news was a soccer game with its trading cards on xbox live where the scammers managed to seize accounts buy large numbers of these trading cards to give to their own accounts which at then was sold those for real money over an auction website. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5221	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:27:00 - [33] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: After some time of reflecting on recent events here in the forums, I came to the following conclusion. If any of you disagree with me, please speak now or forever hold your pee. ... If you were only able to purchase these BPOs using AUR acquired from the PSN Store then technically, using Yelsha's quote "Every time you buy something you make a contract with the seller" this means that you specifically agreed to pay X amount of real money for X amount of AUR. The seller could technically care less (or none at all) about what you intend to do with the AUR after that. If the same seller makes a sudden change to that AUR, you are entitled to a cash refund for that AUR. ... IF on the other hand you managed to purchase these particular BPOs "AS PART OF" a Merc Pack that was featuring it (example: a 'Toxin' SMG as part of a Merc Pack) by spending X amount of real world money to get that Merc Pack, then you have a case of sorts. ... Unfortunately this situation has already been broached and handled in EVE Online. In EVE they introduced PLEX which is a game representation of 30 day of subscription time. You pay real world money for the time card code you get from a vendor. the code "promises" x days of gameplay which is true if you use it directly for that. However CCP added another option where you can log into the game, enter the code and a PLEX virtual item appears in your item hangar in game. You can then sell or trade this in the game as you please. It can be scammed off you, it can be lost, it can be destroyed... So the "promise" of game time for money represents the same situation you are describing, a promise of something in the game (BPO) for real money (AUR). However this situation of money for services NOT rendered when a PLEX is destroyed in game has been brought up in EVE and shot down before. This BPO situation is no different. I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 1510	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:32:00 - [34] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: UPDATED As of 21 Nov 2013 @ 19:16 Eve Time I just remembered. I still have the BPO of the Yellow Stamina Mod known as the Cardiac Stimulant. It use to have an ISK equivalent back then, but then that ISK variant got removed because it later became obsolete due to the Green Stamina Mod you all know as the Cardiac Regulator. But I still have the BPO. On top of that, it still has the same exact stats as before and I can still fit it if I want. Interesting how the plot thickens. This. Greedy Bastards' Hate Lord
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1308	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:39:00 - [35] - Quote OH SNAP, Take that all you whiners quick question: what are the stats of that yellow mod? "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 206	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:41:00 - [36] - Quote See I agree with what Maken Tosch is saying here. If you bought Aurum, that is what you paid real life money for. This means you are entitled to however much Aurum you bought. If you then used that virtual currency to buy something on the market, CCP has every right to refund you that virtual currency when removing said items. CCP does not have the right to remove the Aurum that you purchased though. On the other hand, if you spent real life money on a pack/collectors edition, there was no middle man. You directly purchased the BPO/item and as such if CCP wanted to remove those items, they would need to refund you PSN credits, or in the case of the collectors edition, real life currency. Removal in case #1 is handled solely within the confines of the in-game world. Removal in case #2 is much more complicated, and involves a business practice called "bait and switch" which is illegal in most countries. an easy fix to Matchmaking
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5223	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:45:00 - [37] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: See I agree with what Maken Tosch is saying here. If you bought Aurum, that is what you paid real life money for. This means you are entitled to however much Aurum you bought. If you then used that virtual currency to buy something on the market, CCP has every right to refund you that virtual currency when removing said items. CCP does not have the right to remove the Aurum that you purchased though. On the other hand, if you spent real life money on a pack/collectors edition, there was no middle man. You directly purchased the BPO/item and as such if CCP wanted to remove those items, they would need to refund you PSN credits, or in the case of the collectors edition, real life currency. Removal in case #1 is handled solely within the confines of the in-game world. Removal in case #2 is much more complicated, and involves a business practice called "bait and switch" which is illegal in most countries. Thank you. And once again, I want to remind everyone here that Sony doesn't give a damn what you intended to do with the AUR when you bought it from Sony. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5224	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:57:00 - [38] - Quote It's really nice to see this thread not going out of control yet. Let's hope it stays that way. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 60	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:13:00 - [39] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. I don't believe you do. I was drawing a parallel to another situation that would indicate the outcome of this situation as they are the same thing. Real money for game item being lost vs. real money for game item lost. Just that in the second version (the DUST one) they are being nice enough to refund some AUR for it.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:16:00 - [40] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I understand your point and I'm glad you brought it up as a reference. But I have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the BPOs in Dust, not the PLEX in Eve Online. I don't believe you do. I was drawing a parallel to another situation that would indicate the outcome of this situation as they are the same thing. Real money for game item being lost vs. real money for game item lost. Just that in the second version (the DUST one) they are being nice enough to refund some AUR for it. I actually do. But I was wanting this to be just about the BPOs and not get PLEX mixed up because there will be many players who will just get caught up arguing whether BPOs and PLEX are the same and I can't have that kind of distraction on my thread. Please understand as I don't want this thread to get derailed. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 20:38:00 - [41] - Quote Ninja Bump CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5228	Posted - 2013.11.21 21:51:00 - [42] - Quote I'm surprised no one has come up with a valid counterpoint to my OP. Am I actually right for once? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5230	Posted - 2013.11.22 03:40:00 - [43] - Quote Does this mean there is no counterpoint to my post? There has to be one internet lawyer out there that disagrees at least. Isn't there? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Thanatus Sleep 10	Posted - 2013.11.22 04:31:00 - [44] - Quote Same crap I read yesterday,It just now in one topic and in one post. Nothing new here. Edit:Free Bump *Im a sad merc* Aq-Rg
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 202	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:31:00 - [45] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Does this mean there is no counterpoint to my post? There has to be one internet lawyer out there that disagrees at least. Isn't there? naw your right, but unfortunatly it doesnt matter because the idiots complained because they dont have reading comprehension skills. so subsequantly they wont understand the explaination of why they are idiots either.
Lorhak Gannarsein 627	Posted - 2013.11.22 05:41:00 - [46] - Quote Free Bump! Also, because no-one explicitly stated, and, as possessor of the four BPOs in question, I can answer it entirely - YES. These four modules were purchasable with AUR only. They, like all other Militia-grade BPOs, were not offered via any of CCP's PSN packs. EDIT: Also Also, you should add Seymor's name to the title too EDIT EDIT: If you could put the explicit positive confirmation in OP, too, that would be helpful as far as making a single cohesive argument is concerned XD (which is not to say that this is not.)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5236	Posted - 2013.11.22 07:05:00 - [47] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Free Bump! Also, because no-one explicitly stated, and, as possessor of the four BPOs in question, I can answer it entirely - YES. These four modules were purchasable with AUR only. They, like all other Militia-grade BPOs, were not offered via any of CCP's PSN packs. EDIT: Also Also, you should add Seymor's name to the title too EDIT EDIT: If you could put the explicit positive confirmation in OP, too, that would be helpful as far as making a single cohesive argument is concerned XD (which is not to say that this is not.) Yeah. Lol I referenced yelsha in particular because he is the one who claimed to actually have filed a legitimate court claim against CCP via some UK fair trade court system. If my argument is correct, which it seems it is, then that claim will not go well for this guy. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:33:00 - [48] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I'm surprised no one has come up with a valid counterpoint to my OP. Am I actually right for once? Your claim is not correct. Only if CCP offered different payment methods would your point be valid. When the only option to purchase in game items is in game currency, then CCP cannot dictate that refunds are only given in in game currency. I had to exchange my money, which is valid currency in several countries, to their own digital currency in order to purchase items they advertised as permanent. When they remove said items, they are liable to give me my valid currency back which I can use outside this game. I didn't buy AUR to have AUR, I bought it because it was the only method to obtain their advertised items. This is the same as if a store only allowed payments with their own voucher. You would have to change your money at the door to their store vouchers that are only valid in their store. If they then go an terminate a contract, they are liable to exchange your voucher back to valid currency because the only reason you exchanged to their voucher was to purchase an item they later removed from stock. If this was allowed, retailers could effectively "trap" customers and force them to make purchases in their store and never worry about having to refund or lose sales. Just advertise an item, make people purchase their vouchers, remove item from stock and refund store credit only. Brilliant. Seriously, look at it this way: CCP sells items that are advertised as permanent The only way to purchase these items is to exchange valid currency to in game currency 3000 players purchase $5 worth of BPOGÇÖs, creating $15,000.00 revenue for CCP CCP removes these items from the game and dictates that refunds are in game currency only CCP profit $15,000.00, cost $0.00 for refunds (AUR does not cost anything to CCP) Players donGÇÖt have the items they purchased or the money they used to purchase them and are left with in game currency which is valid only in game Some players might be happy with AUR refund, it is not illegal to offer store credit as compensation if customer is happy to use the credit on other items. But if the customer is not happy with store credit, if the store offers nothing of interest, then the trader is liable to refund in cash or exchange to similar item. Consumer cannot be penalized on matters out of their control. If CCP offered both real world currency payments (micro transactions with $) and the option to purchase in game currency (AUR) then it would be within their right to refund according to payment method. Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 423	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:37:00 - [49] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: So, again... Were these four particular BPOs only available from within the in-game market in Dust which required you to first purchase AUR from Sony? Yes or No? In game market only, Yes, you had to buy AUR, which is what you owned. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 141	Posted - 2013.11.22 10:49:00 - [50] - Quote I am not particularly upset at the decision, but the problem is, the aurum would be useful as a refund if there were other BPO's to buy - there aren't. The only worthwhile thing you can buy with aurum now is boosters. If you ask most people who bought aurum, I can guarantee you the top three things on their shopping list were not expendable modules, suits and vehicles. They were boosters and BPO's. These are the people who finance the game in the end and decisions like this should be thought out more carefully.

Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 423	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:06:00 - [51] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. But the modules that those BPO's represent are disappearing. So, do you want to keep BPO's that you can't use? I have lots of BPO's, I'm thankful that I will be getting approx 45K AUR for them (across all chars). I don't want BPO's I can't use cluttering my inventory. Thank you CCP. GôêGÆ+GÆ+GÆ¦
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 11:39:00 - [52] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Like I said in the other topic, I am willing to let this slide. IGÇÖm upset that they are taking two BPOGÇÖs from me because a month earlier they said they will not do it. But if they even consider taking more BPOGÇÖs from me, I will exercise my right as a consumer and demand PSN credit. But the modules that those BPO's represent are disappearing. So, do you want to keep BPO's that you can't use? I have lots of BPO's, I'm thankful that I will be getting approx 45K AUR for them (across all chars). I don't want BPO's I can't use cluttering my inventory. Thank you CCP. CCP cannot make items redundant. At the time I purchased these items they were advertised as having certain affects and to be permanent. This is what I paid for. CCP could just modify the items so long as their purpose or functionality is not drastically changed (e.g. shield booster suddenly gives 1HP/pulse or instead of vehicles they work on lamp posts) and IGÇÖm sure most people would be fine with that. If the item is drastically changed or removed entirely I am entitled to a refund. And CCP cannot dictate that refund. They can offer me store credit (AUR), similar item (not available) or cash. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5241	Posted - 2013.11.22 16:50:00 - [53] - Quote @Sleepy Finally, someone who offers a good counterpoint to my OP. Your point does seem rather valid I admit. But I got a question for you on what you pointed out in regards to CCP selling "nothing of interest" in your opinion. What may not be of interest to you, may be an interest to another player. Therefore something of interest is a very subjective term. As you pointed out already and as made apparent by those posting here, many of us here still find interest in some of what CCP has to offer. I find AUR suits, weapons, modules to be of interest even if they're not permanent items. They help me save ISK for example. The boosters are also of interest to me because I can gain SP faster which, if applied onto the right skill books, can turn my seemingly weak starter suits into effective killing machines for their class. Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. On top of that, there is a possibility that CCP might offer something of interesting later on in the future that we haven't seen before. One idea that comes to mind is the ability to convert the AUR into AUR Tokens and trade the AUR Tokens for ISK to other players who have boatloads of ISK. Eve Online players have the ability to buy and sell AUR Tokens amongst each other, but just like AUR in Dust, AUR in Eve has to be injected into the economy via one of the players paying cash directly to CCP for that Token. Ok, I'm going to have to go against my own wishes here and bring PLEX into this discussion. Jadd Hatchen posted a reply in this thread early on stating that PLEX brought about a similar case. Only this time, PLEX could be lost by simply getting scammed by a player, destroyed while in transit, trashing it, or deleting your character that has it in its inventory. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1519001#post1519001 Quote: Unfortunately this situation has already been broached and handled in EVE Online. In EVE they introduced PLEX which is a game representation of 30 day of subscription time. You pay real world money for the time card code you get from a vendor. the code "promises" x days of gameplay which is true if you use it directly for that. However CCP added another option where you can log into the game, enter the code and a PLEX virtual item appears in your item hangar in game. You can then sell or trade this in the game as you please. It can be scammed off you, it can be lost, it can be destroyed... So the "promise" of game time for money represents the same situation you are describing, a promise of something in the game (BPO) for real money (AUR). However this situation of money for services NOT rendered when a PLEX is destroyed in game has been brought up in EVE and shot down before. This BPO situation is no different. @Jadd Well, it looks like it finally got to the point where PLEX and Dust AUR are now talked about in this thread. Let's hope we don't confuse too many people here with it. CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:07:00 - [54] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @Sleepy Finally, someone who offers a good counterpoint to my OP. Your point does seem rather valid I admit. But I got a question for you on what you pointed out in regards to CCP selling "nothing of interest" in your opinion. What may not be of interest to you, may be an interest to another player. Therefore something of interest is a very subjective term. As you pointed out already and as made apparent by those posting here, many of us here still find interest in some of what CCP has to offer. I find AUR suits, weapons, modules to be of interest even if they're not permanent items. They help me save ISK for example. The boosters are also of interest to me because I can gain SP faster which, if applied onto the right skill books, can turn my seemingly weak starter suits into effective killing machines for their class. Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. On top of that, there is a possibility that CCP might offer something of interesting later on in the future that we haven't seen before. One idea that comes to mind is the ability to convert the AUR into AUR Tokens and trade the AUR Tokens for ISK to other players who have boatloads of ISK. Eve Online players have the ability to buy and sell AUR Tokens amongst each other, but just like AUR in Dust, AUR in Eve has to be injected into the economy via one of the players paying cash directly to CCP for that Token. It is subjective but because the contract is terminated by CCP, not me, I am the one who can choose the preferred method of compensation. This goes for anyone the removal of BPO's concern. Likewise if I choose not to use the item, or feel it isnGÇÖt what I wanted after all, CCP is in no way liable to compensate me. If I wanted to sell the item back, CCP is in no way obliged to pay me the full retail price. And so on and so forth... CCP is allowed to offer blanket compensation to make matters easy (everyone getting their AUR back) but it is still disputable. A player can contact CCP, inform them that they are not happy with the compensation and try to work things out with CCP. If CCP's offers of store credit, another item or the like do not satisfy the player, then CCP must refund cash. I use AUR items from time to time but I still have a boat load of it. I am not going to jump at CCP because they are removing two BPOGÇÖs from me, though as I have mentioned I am upset about it. I will let it slide, I will not demand a cash refund. I have purchased items in game because I like the game and I want to support it. I donGÇÖt mean that CCP needs to start refunding everyone right now, IGÇÖm just pointing out that consumers have rights and CCP cannot dictate the terms. People on this forum have been obscenely rude to people trying to defend their rights (I'm not meaning you here, just generally). But I will also not stand idly by if CCP tries to remove more BPOGÇÖs. I have my limits .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:36:00 - [55] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. Sorry, didnGÇÖt really address this, my bad. Or maybe I did, I don't know... But anyway, this is in addition to my above post. While the consumer is entitled to a refund or compensation, they are not entitled to a refund of their choosing or of greater value. For example a BPO MLT shield module is not equal to BPO LAV or paying $5 for the BPO does not entitle you to a refund of $10.00 because GÇ£you feel inconveniencedGÇ¥. As a consumer you are entitled to store credit or cash refund of the paid amount or an equal item. CCP (or any store) can offer different items if they so wish (to make happy customers for example) but they are not obliged to do so. Store credit can only be exchanged to items in said store. So if the customer does not find anything they desire in the store, and this is one's personal opinion only, they are entitled to a cash refund. I may or may not be rambling at this point. I may or may not need a beer. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 139	Posted - 2013.11.22 18:52:00 - [56] - Quote Didn't realize only lawyers played this game... Oh wait. This argument is simply put, stupid. The pathos or logic why it is legally permissable may or may not be found in the EULA or terms of service, but that is not what I am making claims on. It is the ethos, the ethical qualifications of this action that are dubios. If the modules can't be used, then invent new appropriate equivalents, or make a direct refund as PSN. Regardless if CCP wrote in to cover there asses beforehand, it does not mean it is good business practice. And even though this isn't for huge cost items, that does not negate the negligence of CCP in this debacle.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5242	Posted - 2013.11.22 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Now for my question. How can you define what's considered something of interest if someone else may disagree with you on what you consider to be interesting? For example, I might find boosters interesting but someone else won't. Someone else might see AUR RESPECs as interesting but someone won't. Sorry, didnGÇÖt really address this, my bad. Or maybe I did, I don't know... But anyway, this is in addition to my above post. While the consumer is entitled to a refund or compensation, they are not entitled to a refund of their choosing or of greater value. For example a BPO MLT shield module is not equal to BPO LAV or paying $5 for the BPO does not entitle you to a refund of $10.00 because GÇ£you feel inconveniencedGÇ¥. As a consumer you are entitled to store credit or cash refund of the paid amount or an equal item. CCP (or any store) can offer different items if they so wish (to make happy customers for example) but they are not obliged to do so. Store credit can only be exchanged to items in said store. So if the customer does not find anything they desire in the store, and this is one's personal opinion only, they are entitled to a cash refund. I may or may not be rambling at this point. I may or may not need a beer. In that case, what do you make of Yelsha's effort to file a legal complaint against CCP? What do you think of his idea of compensation such as the Master Recruiter CII Dropsuit, which is an item that has no aurum value and is a dropsuit item (not a vehicle one)? Do you think he even has a snowball's chance in hell that he could succeed? What do you think of the plex case brought up by Jadd? CCP, thank you for hotfixing the knives. But please make sure they're at their full potential in 1.7.
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 84	Posted - 2013.11.22 23:01:00 - [58] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: In that case, what do you make of Yelsha's effort to file a legal complaint against CCP? What do you think of his idea of compensation such as the Master Recruiter CII Dropsuit, which is an item that has no aurum value and is a dropsuit item (not a vehicle one)? Do you think he even has a snowball's chance in hell that he could succeed? What do you think of the plex case brought up by Jadd? Contacting local consumer protection office to get free advice is fine, you should make sure if youGÇÖre right about your claim. IGÇÖm sure they said to him more or less the same I said here. He only needs legal help if CCP refuses to either offer a suitable item in return or refund cash (since it seems he is not willing to accept AUR). And he can ask for whatever he wants but CCP is not obliged to comply if his request isnGÇÖt within reason. If he is asking for one dropsuit, that is not a BPO, then why shouldnGÇÖt CCP agree :D it is actually inferior as when he dies, he loses it. If itGÇÖs a BPO, then no it is not within reason as the suit is vastly superior to the BPO he loses. If he remains unreasonable, CCP can just refund him money and he cannot complain or dispute it again. Cash is final and the GÇ£debtGÇ¥ is settled. I donGÇÖt know much about PLEX (I donGÇÖt play EVE) but the item seems GÇ£either orGÇ¥. Either you use it to extend your subscription to EVE or you use it as a token to receive in game items. Now, again, I donGÇÖt know how EVE works. Can your BPOGÇÖs be stolen? And I thought there was only one BPO ship, or am I wrong? If the item was not sold as permanent (meaning no matter what you do you cannot lose it) the no, you donGÇÖt have any grounds to demand compensation if you lose it. I donGÇÖt know how CCP introduced the new feature to the PLEX so I cannot say if players had any grounds to demand a refund. And in what circumstance did they demand a refund anyway? After losing the ship? Or after using their PLEX to get in game items only to notice they couldnGÇÖt use it to a subscription? .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â. ... -¦ ß¦íß¦Ç-ò -òß¦äß¦Ç+¦+¦ß¦çß¦à ß¦Å+¦ß¦äß¦ç... -òß¦¢-¦-ƒ-ƒ -ôß¦çß¦ç-ƒ ß¦Ç -ƒ-¦ß¦¢ß¦¢-ƒß¦ç ß¦á-¦ß¦Å-ƒß¦Çß¦¢ß¦çß¦à
xLuca Brasi DUST University Ivy League 14	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:12:00 - [59] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Bump for exposure. I'm surprised Seymor or Yelsha haven't posted here so far. They're probably at work or something. Eventually they'll see this. seymor hasn't posted because ccp has him bound and gaged in a dark room until December 5th.....but if he could speak he would probably say something like this: do you remember contact nades? remember what ccp did to them? nerfed them with no credit. then they promise not to take bpo's then they do. my point.... ccp has treated my business poorly. for me its not a question of whether or not they can do these things, but should they? and where does it stop? can I ever trust to purchase anything from them again. I have been a loyal fan for a long time.... I feel betrayed. theres a lot of underhanded crap companies pull all the time that they legally get away with. so, great.... ccp is just as scummy as them.... pfft SAY NO TO BPO REMOVALS!
Thanatus Sleep 17	Posted - 2013.11.23 01:23:00 - [60] - Quote Why don't you guys just stop playing if you know CCP going to rip you off and have bad customer service. I thought Dust Vet know this game was going keep changing to the point it ** you off so you just have to HTFU. Don't look like it anymore. Im a sad merc** Aq-Rg



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