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Stop Complaining, The HMG Is Fine

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 711	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:51:00 - [1] - Quote The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 922	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:53:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? For the Empire! Member of ASS: Amarr Secret Service.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1363	Posted - 2013.11.07 23:55:00 - [3] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? Someone needs to search Atiim's SP in-game on the scoreboards, as he apparently has all of his SP split into HAVs, swarmies, scouts, commando suits, and a bunch of other crap pretty much everything actually, like a mini-Iron-Wolf-Saber. Pretty curious, as he must have a crapload of SP in order to do all of this tuff at anything higher then crappy-low tier. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2158	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:03:00 - [4] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? Someone needs to search Atiim's SP in-game on the scoreboards, as he apparently has all of his SP split into HAVs, swarmies, scouts, commando suits, and a bunch of other crap pretty much everything actually, like a mini-Iron-Wolf-Saber. Pretty curious, as he must have a crapload of SP in order to do all of this tuff at anything higher then crappy-low tier. I am effective at being an assault, logi, and scout plus I have quite a bit SP in ScR (I have prof 2 for ScR), shotguns, SMGs (I have prof 3 for SMGs), and Swarm Launchers (I have prof 4 in swarms). Plus I have most of the core skills that I need at the level I want them and have quite a bit of equipment skills up. (The only equipment that I don't have Advanced level for is drop uplinks and rep tool which I have both at level 2) So yea I don't doubt he's speced into all of those things but I don't like how he says that he's a generalist as if that proves his argument correct.
Cosgar ParagonX 7488	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:04:00 - [5] - Quote Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 713	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:05:00 - [6] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? On a weapon that does 17-20 damage per shot? Why would I spend 2mil SP on a skill that gives you 2.5-13 extra HP of damge? That's like asking for a skill that decreases dispersion on a Tactical Sniper Rifle To be direct, 0. But I have been rocking the PRO one on my brothers account, and it's pretty good (until you die and see that a MLT AR did 1k HP of damage to you in the span of 5 seconds) On another note, before everyone says "Oh snap he said HMGs are fine, time to grab the pitchforks and sharpen those brass knuckles, listen to what I'm saying. WE DO NOT NEED THE HMG TO BE GIVEN LONG RANGE ABILITIES, WE NEED MORE/BETTER HEAVY WEAPONS. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1454	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:06:00 - [7] - Quote Eh, a slight higer optimal, and WInmatar Heavy frames is all that it needs imo. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2158	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:06:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? I agree with you completely. Heavies have a nice big head which I unload my Ishukone ASMG rounds into. Rarely does an HMG beat my ASMG.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 713	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:06:00 - [9] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? Someone needs to search Atiim's SP in-game on the scoreboards, as he apparently has all of his SP split into HAVs, swarmies, scouts, commando suits, and a bunch of other crap pretty much everything actually, like a mini-Iron-Wolf-Saber. Pretty curious, as he must have a crapload of SP in order to do all of this tuff at anything higher then crappy-low tier. Anywho, to the OP... Try playing with your heavy suit, and in "CQC" swap your HMG for a Duvie assault rifle, and compare performance... The HMG is not fine. I split that between two accounts, mine and my bro's This alt is closing in on 10m. I'm not sure how much SP my bro has though There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1363	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:09:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: On a weapon that does 17-20 damage per shot? Why would I spend 2mil SP on a skill that gives you 2.5-13 extra HP of damge? Because even at 1 prof that extra 3% damage is giving you an extra 19.8DPS, so if you spent the "two mill" you'd have an extra 99dps not counting damage mods, negating a proto-shield extender and a half in one second effectively... I personally like the idea of going from base 660DPS to 759DPS, but that's just me Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 714	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:12:00 - [11] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Atiim wrote: On a weapon that does 17-20 damage per shot? Why would I spend 2mil SP on a skill that gives you 2.5-13 extra HP of damge? Because even at 1 prof that extra 3% damage is giving you an extra 19.8DPS, so if you spent the "two mill" you'd have an extra 99dps not counting damage mods, negating a proto-shield extender and a half in one second effectively... I personally like the idea of going from base 660DPS to 759DPS, but that's just me I think heavies should get a special skill that increases RPM as well. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Llast 326 An Arkhos 353	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:13:00 - [12] - Quote My spousal unit runs a Heavy, we have discussed the issues she has experienced with the HMG. she has even posted a couple tips in the rookie training grounds. The HMG needs less dispersion, or a minor dmg increase. Running an HMG with a damage mod changed her results from average 14 assists to an average of 12 kills with 4 assists. Crouching to limit dispersion had a similar effect without the damage mod, but you are literally limited to a very select few situations where this works without grenade death. Personally I think the HMG may work better with the Heavy Min as it will likely be speedier, and thus able to close into effective range better, and remain a mobile wall of bullets. The better basic move (not sprint) will help the overall cqc parameters of the weapon. I am that Some Margin of Error
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 714	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:14:00 - [13] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? Ishukone = God Gun Get with the program There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 419	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:23:00 - [14] - Quote Give HMG the sharpshooter skill that the AR and SMG have? In my experience with the SMG decreasing the dispersion of rounds has a much greater effect than the damage bonuses you have with proficiency. Just my 2 ISK as someone who has never even tried the HMG
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:34:00 - [15] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: I am effective at being an assault, logi, and scout plus I have quite a bit SP in ScR (I have prof 2 for ScR), shotguns, SMGs (I have prof 3 for SMGs), and Swarm Launchers (I have prof 4 in swarms). Plus I have most of the core skills that I need at the level I want them and have quite a bit of equipment skills up. (The only equipment that I don't have Advanced level for is drop uplinks and rep tool which I have both at level 2) So yea I don't doubt he's speced into all of those things but I don't like how he says that he's a generalist as if that proves his argument correct. I use the "I'm a generalist" argument when someone says "If you don't have every drop of SP spent into one role, and don't follow the "hive mind", you aren't one of us" argument, those who say "HTFU you aren't a (insert role here), so your thought doesn't matter", despite this being everyone's game where everyone's opinion matters equally. (Unless you are a CoD scrub who want's the AR to be OP, then you do need to "HTFU") It's pathetic when people use the "you aren't exactly like me, so HTFU scrub" and "luel your KD is lower than mine, get gud scrub" arguments. I don't feel like arguing with these kinds of people. So I just say "i do everything what's your point?" and move on with my life. Though I do not say I am specced into something until I have at least ADV tier equipment (and sometimes even PRO depending on the gear/type), and know how to use it well There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2016	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:34:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 Fix my scout already
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 2092	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:35:00 - [17] - Quote Facts 1) In an up-armored Scout Fit, I can stand toe-to-toe with an HMG Heavy long enough to shotgun him to death. 2) In the same fit, I can stand toe-to-toe against an AR or ScR for 1/3 to 1/2 of this time ... EZ Mode wins every time. Conclusions 1) The AR and ScR are better Close Quarter weapons than an HMG or Shotgun. 2) Any assertion of "HMG is Fine" is flat-out incorrect. CQC is horribly imbalanced in favor of medium-range weaponry.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:36:00 - [18] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Give HMG the sharpshooter skill that the AR and SMG have? In my experience with the SMG decreasing the dispersion of rounds has a much greater effect than the damage bonuses you have with proficiency. Just my 2 ISK as someone who has never even tried the HMG Then HTFU you pig of a man! How dare you say something without having used it, even if you've been on the reciving end of it"! GET GOOD SCRUB! (No I'm joking) I think heavies need a sharpshooter skill, and a skill that improves RPM. But my only concern with the HMG having a sharpshooter skill is what would happen when I crouch down There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
XxDuneRayxX Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 9	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:38:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Agreed
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:39:00 - [20] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. If you pay attention to my posts, I'm saying that we need more heavy weapons, that;s all. But If there was a mid to long range heavy weapon, would you complain about HMG range? I wouldn't. (at least not as much) And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes

Cosgar ParagonX 7499	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:40:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Cosgar wrote: Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? Ishukone = God Gun Get with the program And people want to nerf logis to sidearms to stop them from killing apparently. They'd really be complaining then if every mellow fellow in yellow carried one of these. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
castba Penguin's March 183	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:42:00 - [22] - Quote Agree that the hmg does not need more range. Do not want to see a repeat of the Chrome hmg. Sharpshooter skill would be beneficial and reasonable.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7459	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:42:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. Proof that CCP loves to troll
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:43:00 - [24] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Facts 1) In an up-armored Scout Fit, I can stand toe-to-toe with an HMG Heavy long enough to shotgun him to death. 2) In the same fit, I can stand toe-to-toe against an AR or ScR for 1/3 to 1/2 of this time ... EZ Mode wins every time. Conclusions 1) The AR and ScR are better Close Quarter weapons than an HMG or Shotgun. 2) Any assertion that "HMG is Fine" is flat-out incorrect. 3) CQC is horribly imbalanced in favor of medium-range weaponry. I must be doing it wrong then, because whenever I'm in a scout fit and jump in front of an HMG, I end up becoming Swiss Cheese. Even with Ferroscale & Reactive Plates. But I can't even afford to stack HP on a scout with the amount of active scanner spam and the fact that we only have around 200 base stamina. But yeah "EZ-mode" wins even at the MLT variant. And my sister's alt with the Recruit AR eats people like it's got the case of munchies when you slap a damage mod on it. That .68 HP adds up quickly There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2016	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:45:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. If you pay attention to my posts, I'm saying that we need more heavy weapons, that;s all. But If there was a mid to long range heavy weapon, would you complain about HMG range? I wouldn't. (at least not as much) And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? Hmm I suppose the HMG would need to be balanced with the other heavy weapons it's range however is still pathetic as a projectile weapon. And a Minja uses an HMG by having an alt :P. Also pardons for not reading the OP I usually don't do that. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 2 Fix my scout already
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 419	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:46:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Give HMG the sharpshooter skill that the AR and SMG have? In my experience with the SMG decreasing the dispersion of rounds has a much greater effect than the damage bonuses you have with proficiency. Just my 2 ISK as someone who has never even tried the HMG Then HTFU you pig of a man! How dare you say something without having used it, even if you've been on the reciving end of it"! GET GOOD SCRUB! (No I'm joking) I think heavies need a sharpshooter skill, and a skill that improves RPM. But my only concern with the HMG having a sharpshooter skill is what would happen when I crouch down My guess is that then the HMG would have essentially the effective range of the AR when the AR using is standing and mobile. But liek I said that's a guess and that I think would still be fair. The heavy would be able to effectively be able to put more rounds down range but would also be even less mobile and more vulnerable to being flanked and shot in the head by hip fired rounds.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 414	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:47:00 - [27] - Quote Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:52:00 - [28] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. If you pay attention to my posts, I'm saying that we need more heavy weapons, that;s all. But If there was a mid to long range heavy weapon, would you complain about HMG range? I wouldn't. (at least not as much) And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? Hmm I suppose the HMG would need to be balanced with the other heavy weapons it's range however is still pathetic as a projectile weapon. And a Minja uses an HMG by having an alt :P. Also pardons for not reading the OP I usually don't do that. HMGs suck because that's all thier is, besides the Almighty Forge Gun But yeah my main concern is what happens when... heck am I saying. IF the other heavy weapons come out like CCP promised, the HMG would need to be rebalanced for other heavy weapons. If it wasn't, then we'd have a nightmare know as the Heavy Assualt Rifle. I wish I could have a scout with a Boundless HMG, just for the lols. And most people don't read the OP, and those that do read the first to sentences and decide that they should spam me with hate mail calling me names so bad that if CCP read them their account would cease to exist in less than seconds. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 715	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:54:00 - [29] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 414	Posted - 2013.11.08 00:57:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. While I most definitely agree we need more weapons, I don't agree with giving us more weapons as an excuse to leave the weapon crappy. Shotguns land more shots at 30m than an hmg does.

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 419	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:00:00 - [31] - Quote Atiim wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. I both agree and disagree with you. Yes heavies need more weapons I really feel for the players who have been stuck with basically 2 main weapons for over a year and a half. I think what we should have is: Heavy plasma rifle - short range heavy weapon Heavy Machinegun - mid range heavy weapon Heavy laser - long range anti infantry heavy weapon Also the heavies should get some sort of heavy exclusive explosive weapon like a one shot missle launcher or something. I might actually think about skilling into a heavy suit if such variety existed.
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 287	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:04:00 - [32] - Quote RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia.
Void Echo 2121	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:10:00 - [33] - Quote I see youv decided to **** another group of people off now since youv been debunked, outwitted, outsmarted and just plain humiliated by tankers. Closed Beta Vet My Youtube Channel Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 420	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:10:00 - [34] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia. But in RL heavy machine guns are only mounted on vehicles or on emplacements, not carried around by foot soldiers.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1062	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:26:00 - [35] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? Cosgar... no it isn't. I have max skills in both HMG and SMG. And even though the Ish ASMG is a sexy gun, it does not beat a Boundless HMG in any conceivable category. I'm sure shyte heavies get mulched by the SMG, but against any fattie who knows what he's doing, it's completely lopsided in the HMG's favor. Now, I'm definitely not in the "HMG is fine" camp (I think it needs the same Sharpshooter skill that AR and SMG have), but I agree that the Heavy's #1 problem right now is content. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 000/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 287	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:37:00 - [36] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Powerh8er wrote: RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia. But in RL heavy machine guns are only mounted on vehicles or on emplacements, not carried around by foot soldiers. They can be carried by teams, but the demand for a higher mobility in the military have made heavy and medium machinegun teams somewhat obsolete. My point: RL dont have 7 foot tall supersoldiers in armorplated exoskeletons, so what is the point of being able to wield such a massive and heavy weapon like the HMG, only to hide in bunkers waiting for the enemy to throw in a grenade? It makes no sense that the HMG is supposed to be a CQC weapon when there are much lighter shotguns and smg's that does the job better, but then again CCP are trolls.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 421	Posted - 2013.11.08 01:46:00 - [37] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Powerh8er wrote: RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia. But in RL heavy machine guns are only mounted on vehicles or on emplacements, not carried around by foot soldiers. They can be carried by teams, but the demand for a higher mobility in the military have made heavy and medium machinegun teams somewhat obsolete. My point: RL dont have 7 foot tall supersoldiers in armorplated exoskeletons, so what is the point of being able to wield such a massive and heavy weapon like the HMG, only to hide in bunkers waiting for the enemy to throw in a grenade? It makes no sense that the HMG is supposed to be a CQC weapon when there are much lighter shotguns and smg's that does the job better, but then again CCP are trolls. Right, I thought the heavy machine gun team kind of went away after WWII. I do agree with your point though, give HMG the sharp shooter skill that SMG and AR has and I think it would be dramatically improved and that way it is skill based instead of an across the board buff. Separate the heavies heavily invested from those that are less so.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1364	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:01:00 - [38] - Quote Atiim wrote: I think heavies need a sharpshooter skill, and a skill that improves RPM. Says the HMG is fine, then says it could use more skills... Atiim wrote: And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? Uses "alts" and specs into everything, yet questions how a "minja" user uses HMGs I jest I jest, but this is pretty funny Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 176	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:07:00 - [39] - Quote Removing sharpshooting and changing the meaning of certain skills hasn't worked the way many had hoped. A revisit of these skills would be nice, but not if it means taking away from new content. It's time to just push forward with what we have and get all the new stuff that we can.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1234	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:22:00 - [40] - Quote Range is fine. DPS is (theoretically) fine. HMG needs: Base dispersion reduction of 10-50% (depending on variant - more reduction to Assault variants) Sharpshooter Skill similar to other automatic weapons. Base reload time reduced by 25% Overheat reduction to replace current Sentinel Bonus. None of these are buffs. They are performance optimizations. Cheeseburgers.

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3989	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:29:00 - [41] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Shouldn't the roles of and HMG be squad support.... how can a heavy support their squad at 20m? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 720	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:29:00 - [42] - Quote Void Echo wrote: I see youv decided to **** another group of people off now since youv been debunked, outwitted, outsmarted and just plain humiliated by tankers. What are you talking about? The only thing tankers have told me is: HTFU you aren't a real tanker Get Good Scrub It should take 3 people to destroy one of me even thought that could potentially lock entire squads out of the match to deal with us Tanks should be the only way to destroy tanks AV shouldn't be as good as a tank We should only be able to "disable" tanks, not destroy them Heck, the lack of competence from about 90% of them even led you to tell one of them to STFU. I haven't been debunked, outwitted, outsmarted, or humiliated by anyone. I just decided to leave the issue at rest, because when everyone either has PRO AV or HAVs, I'm just gonna be able to sit back and say I told you so. (And when I say everyone, I do mean everyone) Anyways, if you think all I do is sit inside an iron box all day, then you need to get yourself checked for a brain disorder. This thread is not about tanks. Try to stay on topic. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 720	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:31:00 - [43] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Shouldn't the roles of and HMG be squad support.... how can a heavy support their squad at 20m? More Weapons. Which Is what I'm saying. If we buff the HMG, then what happens when mid-range heavy weapons come out? Then you will just have a heavy version of the current Assualt Rifle. And I think we can all agree that we don't want that. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 720	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:33:00 - [44] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia. You don't want weapons in this game to perform like their real life counterparts. Or do you think I should be able to down you with a shotgun from 60m? That would be scary. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1521	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:40:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: On a weapon that does 17-20 damage per shot? Why would I spend 2mil SP on a skill that gives you 2.5-13 extra HP of damge? That's like asking for a skill that decreases dispersion on a Tactical Sniper Rifle To be direct, 0. But I have been rocking the PRO one on my brothers account, and it's pretty good (until you die and see that a MLT AR did 1k HP of damage to you in the span of 5 seconds) On another note, before everyone says "Oh snap he said HMGs are fine, time to grab the pitchforks and sharpen those brass knuckles, listen to what I'm saying. WE DO NOT NEED THE HMG TO BE GIVEN LONG RANGE ABILITIES, WE NEED MORE/BETTER HEAVY WEAPONS. I donGÇÖt care about a big laser and a giant shotgun. I want a Sharp Shooter skill for the HMG to decrease dispersion so that it gets a little closer to the damage it says it does on paper. I agree it does not need longer rang. But it does need to be more effective in its current range. And donGÇÖt let the name "Sharp Shooter" fool you. The Sharp Shooter skill for the SMG does not give any additional range. It only reduces dispersion. We want the same for the HMG.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1024	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:45:00 - [46] - Quote Sadly I agree with the minmatar scum more weapons will bring a great resurgent of heavies onto the field. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1241	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:46:00 - [47] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Ishukone ASMG > Boundless Anyone else see something wrong with that? shhhhhhhhh Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1241	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:47:00 - [48] - Quote Atiim wrote: Powerh8er wrote: RL heavy machine guns: These weapons are designed to provide increased range, penetration and destructive power against vehicles, buildings, aircraft and light fortifications beyond the standard rifle calibers used in medium or general-purpose machine guns, or the intermediate cartridges used in light machine guns. In this sense, the "heavy" aspect of the weapon refers to its superior power and range over light- and medium-caliber weapons, in addition to its weight. Yours truly Wikipedia. You don't want weapons in this game to perform like their real life counterparts. Or do you think I should be able to down you with a shotgun from 60m? That would be scary. HMG would still kill you in 1 to 2 shots from 300m away. lets not go there. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1242	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:48:00 - [49] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Shouldn't the roles of and HMG be squad support.... how can a heavy support their squad at 20m? precisely. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1317	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:50:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND On my heavy alt I went for a one on one hmg duel, he whipped out his SMG and fked me in less than 1.5 secs, tell me that's fine. And dont say stfu get good, its getting old. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.

D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1242	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:50:00 - [51] - Quote The HMG is so great heavies are using Duvoules and milita ARs even to be fair to other players because the HMG is so OP, I mean oh my god, i can insta-drop standard suits out to 99m range in less than a second. My hmg has no dispersoin, no recoil, reloads at god speed, has a rediculous fire rate and I can fit it better than an SMG.... oh wait thats an AR... Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubadosPronto saberá justiça I am a Defender of the downtroddenSoon you will discover justice
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1522	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:52:00 - [52] - Quote Atiim wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Give HMG the sharpshooter skill that the AR and SMG have? In my experience with the SMG decreasing the dispersion of rounds has a much greater effect than the damage bonuses you have with proficiency. Just my 2 ISK as someone who has never even tried the HMG Then HTFU you pig of a man! How dare you say something without having used it, even if you've been on the reciving end of it"! GET GOOD SCRUB! (No I'm joking) I think heavies need a sharpshooter skill, and a skill that improves RPM. But my only concern with the HMG having a sharpshooter skill is what would happen when I crouch down Crouching removes almost all dispersion, just as crouching removes almost all rifle sway for a Sniper. A Sniper with max skills still gets more Rifle sway standing than when couched. A Heavy with max Sharp Shooter skill would still have more dispersion when standing than when crouched, but the difference would be much less significant. Or in other words, the Sharp Shooter skill would not effect DPS while crouched one bit.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3993	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:52:00 - [53] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Shouldn't the roles of and HMG be squad support.... how can a heavy support their squad at 20m? More Weapons. Which Is what I'm saying. If we buff the HMG, then what happens when mid-range heavy weapons come out? Then you will just have a heavy version of the current Assualt Rifle. And I think we can all agree that we don't want that. Well admittedly I have never liked the current chaingun iteration of HMG. Where are the squad assault/ support weapons? FUTURISTIC SAW, Type 88, or Pulse Machine Guns? I would. Make AR 30 rounds max. 31 for Minmatar 30 for Gallente 24 for Caldari 21 for Amarr Make HMG or LMG varients with large magazines. Simple. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1522	Posted - 2013.11.08 02:56:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. If you pay attention to my posts, I'm saying that we need more heavy weapons, that;s all. But If there was a mid to long range heavy weapon, would you complain about HMG range? I wouldn't. (at least not as much) And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? You are talking about a Laser Cannon. I am not interested in the Laser Cannon. I want my short to medium range HMG fixed! I want to do more DPS than an AR out to 15 m.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1524	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:01:00 - [55] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? No. The HMG does not need more range. It needs to be more effective within its current range.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1524	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:02:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Atiim, just no bud. As someone who used HMG at all levels pre/post nerf I can say it is honstly under preforming, it's downright pathetic. The HMG as a projectile weapon should dominate in not only CQC but in midrange as well. If you pay attention to my posts, I'm saying that we need more heavy weapons, that;s all. But If there was a mid to long range heavy weapon, would you complain about HMG range? I wouldn't. (at least not as much) And this may be off topic, but I saw you in a few matches or two and I must know; How does a minja wield a Freedom Heavy Machine Gun? Hmm I suppose the HMG would need to be balanced with the other heavy weapons it's range however is still pathetic as a projectile weapon. And a Minja uses an HMG by having an alt :P. Also pardons for not reading the OP I usually don't do that. HMGs suck because that's all thier is, besides the Almighty Forge Gun But yeah my main concern is what happens when... heck am I saying. IF the other heavy weapons come out like CCP promised, the HMG would need to be rebalanced for other heavy weapons. If it wasn't, then we'd have a nightmare know as the Heavy Assualt Rifle. I wish I could have a scout with a Boundless HMG, just for the lols. And most people don't read the OP, and those that do read the first to sentences and decide that they should spam me with hate mail calling me names so bad that if CCP read them their account would cease to exist in less than seconds. The Gallente Heavy Weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The Amarr Laser cannon will have a longer range.
Void Echo 2123	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:04:00 - [57] - Quote Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: I see youv decided to **** another group of people off now since youv been debunked, outwitted, outsmarted and just plain humiliated by tankers. What are you talking about? The only thing tankers have told me is: HTFU you aren't a real tanker Get Good Scrub It should take 3 people to destroy one of me even thought that could potentially lock entire squads out of the match to deal with us Tanks should be the only way to destroy tanks AV shouldn't be as good as a tank We should only be able to "disable" tanks, not destroy them Heck, the lack of competence from about 90% of them even led you to tell one of them to STFU. I haven't been debunked, outwitted, outsmarted, or humiliated by anyone. I just decided to leave the issue at rest, because when everyone either has PRO AV or HAVs, I'm just gonna be able to sit back and say I told you so. (And when I say everyone, I do mean everyone) Anyways, if you think all I do is sit inside an iron box all day, then you need to get yourself checked for a brain disorder. This thread is not about tanks. Try to stay on topic. um yeah you have, denial much Closed Beta Vet My Youtube Channel Level 2.1 Forum Warrior
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1524	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:04:00 - [58] - Quote Atiim wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. The Gallente Heavy Weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The Amarr Laser cannon will have a longer range.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3995	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:06:00 - [59] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? No. The HMG does not need more range. It needs to be more effective within its current range. SQUAD SUPPORT WEAPON! "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 722	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:08:00 - [60] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND On my heavy alt I went for a one on one hmg duel, he whipped out his SMG and fked me in less than 1.5 secs, tell me that's fine. And dont say stfu get good, its getting old. Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU. But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there. But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while". But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 722	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:10:00 - [61] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Atiim wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. The Gallente Heavy Weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The Amarr Laser cannon will have a longer range. I hope the Amarr laser weapon is not a simple re-incarnation of the normal laser rifle. But what scares me most about Amarr heavy weapons is the fact that they are just now being created, even though Amarr heavy dropsuits have been the only heavies in the entire game for months now. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3996	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:14:00 - [62] - Quote Atiim wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Atiim wrote: MassiveNine wrote: Sorry Atiim, but compared to chromosome, the HMG is poop status. If they could extend the optimal range to 50m, which isn't that big of a buff, the HMG would be a viable weapon. How am I supposed to suppress enemies when you can't even hit them? What I'm trying to say is that the HMG should remain as a CQC weapon and give us more heavy weapons. The Gallente Heavy Weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The Amarr Laser cannon will have a longer range. I hope the Amarr laser weapon is not a simple re-incarnation of the normal laser rifle. But what scares me most about Amarr heavy weapons is the fact that they are just now being created, even though Amarr heavy dropsuits have been the only heavies in the entire game for months now. And you know they will be built around heat management and overheat damage. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1063	Posted - 2013.11.08 03:53:00 - [63] - Quote True Adamance wrote: And you know they will be built around heat management and overheat damage. You know, it'd be sort of hilarious and depressing if they weren't. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 000/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Duran Lex Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 386	Posted - 2013.11.08 04:04:00 - [64] - Quote Reduce the dispersion on the HMG by 5% and you have a usable gun. As of now the Ishukone SMG and Shotgun even outclass the HMG in CQC. Then again, the Ishukone SMG is fuckin ****** strong anyways. Why again can a Sidearm out damage Light Weapons? Or does that argument for a nerf only work if the gun shoots explosives. Edit - Disturbingly Bored wrote:** ED: On a side note... To the folks claiming SMG is superior to HMG, can you stop spreading vicious lies? There is absolutely nothing but butthurt and lopsided anecdotes to support that. I wish it was a lie. The Ishukone ASMG is the only SMG that outclasses the HMG. But it does indeed do so, and quite noticeably.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1063	Posted - 2013.11.08 04:45:00 - [65] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: I wish it was a lie. The Ishukone ASMG is the only SMG that outclasses the HMG. But it does indeed do so, and quite noticeably. I"m not sure what you're smokin', but pass it around. I have Pro V in both weapons, and no, the Ishukone ASMG does not. The only way that'd be true is if you're pitting the Ish ASMG against a basic STD HMG with no damage mods. Other than that, yes, crap heavies are easy to kill. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 000/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Chad Michael Murray NECROM0NGERS 128	Posted - 2013.11.08 05:20:00 - [66] - Quote Heh, I'm pretty sure the main issue with the HMG is the lack of Minmatar suit since it's intended to be the Minmatar heavy weapon to begin with~ Throwing the weapon with a slow suit doesn't work out too well; but yeah, a little dispersion is probably needed regardless.
RA Drahcir Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 281	Posted - 2013.11.08 05:50:00 - [67] - Quote HMG is garbage, I moved onto the Laser or AScr. The HMG cannot make contact with these dancing mediums and scouts.
Rusty Shallows 474	Posted - 2013.11.08 07:40:00 - [68] - Quote Tonight on the Medic Alt I was in a faction war battle against Team Players. While we were on the mushroom in the communication outpost Chicagocub4ever leaped out of a Dropship. Doing an arching strafe I was able to tank his damage in my Sever BPO (3x enhanced buff modules) long enough for the wreckage to disappear and an AR squad-mate to gun him in the back. The worst part is I was releaved it was an HMG. I've used enough of them to know what ranges and movements can dodge them. "She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
Powerh8er Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 288	Posted - 2013.11.08 08:13:00 - [69] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Tonight on the Medic Alt I was in a faction war battle against Team Players. While we were on the mushroom in the communication outpost Chicagocub4ever leaped out of a Dropship. Doing an arching strafe I was able to tank his damage in my Sever BPO (3x enhanced buff modules) long enough for the wreckage to disappear and an AR squad-mate to gun him in the back. The worst part is I was releaved it was an HMG. I've used enough of them to know what ranges and movements can dodge them. Cubs needs to 'git gud'. lol
GRIM GEAR The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 29	Posted - 2013.11.08 08:18:00 - [70] - Quote It's not fine it needs the nerf hammer; hmg kills my scout suits way too fast...........

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1526	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:15:00 - [71] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Right, I thought the heavy machine gun team kind of went away after WWII. I do agree with your point though, give HMG the sharp shooter skill that SMG and AR has and I think it would be dramatically improved and that way it is skill based instead of an across the board buff. Separate the heavies heavily invested from those that are less so. Also, adding the Sharp Shooter skill would not be a DPS buff on paper, and the AR supremacy crowd only looks at the paper stats, so they wonGÇÖt be calling for Heavy nerfs until they encounter us a few times in the field.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1526	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:23:00 - [72] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Range is fine. DPS is (theoretically) fine. HMG needs: Base dispersion reduction of 10-50% (depending on variant - more reduction to Assault variants) Sharpshooter Skill similar to other automatic weapons. Base reload time reduced by 25% Overheat reduction to replace current Sentinel Bonus. None of these are buffs. They are performance optimizations. I think the long reload time adds a tactical aspect to the reload decision which I find interesting. I am ok with it. Also there is a skill that reduces reload time. I rarely overheat. While an overheat reduction bonus might be nice, I would put it on the Minmatar suit. We should be getting it fairly soon.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1526	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:41:00 - [73] - Quote Atiim wrote: Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU. But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there. But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while". But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle. As those who read the forum a lot know, I almost never say something like this, butGÇª Atiim, you are an idiot! The SMGGÇÖs optimal range is also the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The Laser Canon will not be a mid range weapon. It will likely have a range closer to 80m. The Gallente heavy weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The HMG IS the mid range Heavy weapon. Do some research! Making minor adjustments to the HMG will not effect the timing of the release of other weapons.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1282	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:42:00 - [74] - Quote HMG was perfect in Chromosome. People were complaining because HMG users were going 25/2 in std suits and hitting across the map because of sharpshooter. But if you remember it wasn't just the HMG from chromosome...it was also the TYPE-II heavy with more shields, faster movement speed, and a more agressive playstyle. But what's so wrong getting so many kills? I mean it's not like the heavy has any other ways to get wp besides kills and kill assists. Give us 1 of 2 things and the HMG will be balanced again: -AR dispersion when ADS (so that ARs can't kill heavies in 0.2 seconds from 100 meters) -Caldari/Minmatar heavy suit with more shields/speed so that we can differentiate between agressive heavies and defensive heavies. List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 671	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:46:00 - [75] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: Out of curiosity what is your HMG prof lvl at? Someone needs to search Atiim's SP in-game on the scoreboards, as he apparently has all of his SP split into HAVs, swarmies, scouts, commando suits, and a bunch of other crap pretty much everything actually, like a mini-Iron-Wolf-Saber. Pretty curious, as he must have a crapload of SP in order to do all of this tuff at anything higher then crappy-low tier. Anywho, to the OP... Try playing with your heavy suit, and in "CQC" swap your HMG for a Duvie assault rifle, and compare performance... The HMG is not fine. lol you cant find out someones in game sp can u? im at 30 prof V swarm forge and smg proto amarian logi heavy..and tier IV amarian assault almost proto md prof 2 laser prof 4 ar prof 3 proto nades proto nanos injectors reppers charybdis gunlogi maddy limbus he is probably somewhere around 20-30 and i know he has proto forge i killed it just the other day with my laser rifle some people focus on maxing things some work on just getting them..i personally only add prof to a weapon based on how much i like the weapons.
MCEINSTEIN08 ADAMANTIUM CORE 56	Posted - 2013.11.08 11:47:00 - [76] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND I think it is wrong when I have a Heavy dropsuit with cumulated 1400 Shield/Armor with HMG Third Tier, with 2 Enhance Damage modules (2x +5% Damage), and I loose vs a Scout with Shot gun. All they need to do is hop around and I can't even scratch them. Sorry, not quite right to me.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2211	Posted - 2013.11.08 13:45:00 - [77] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND You HAVE no experience. Now delete Dust. Thanks,
john smitharooni Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 16	Posted - 2013.11.08 13:56:00 - [78] - Quote Atiim wrote: The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. Atiim, why do you and others think this? The fact is that the Heavy suit is the ONLY suit in the game that has access to and can fit ALL weapons. The Heavy can equip more weapons than any other suit. Maybe DUST 514 needs more weapons, but to ask for more weapons for the Heavy, specifically, is unnecessary. The Heavy is in need of more suits than unique weaponry.
TuFar Gon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 40	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:00:00 - [79] - Quote My hmg is nearly maxed,,lvl 5 operation, lvl 5 prof. My ar skill is only lvl 8,,and its MUCH EASIER TO USE. Believe me, the hmg is NOT FINE,tbh I dont even use it anymore.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 743	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:09:00 - [80] - Quote MCEINSTEIN08 wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND I think it is wrong when I have a Heavy dropsuit with cumulated 1400 Shield/Armor with HMG Third Tier, with 2 Enhance Damage modules (2x +5% Damage), and I loose vs a Scout with Shot gun. All they need to do is hop around and I can't even scratch them. Sorry, not quite right to me. That doesn't equate to 10% damage because of stacking penalties. 17-20 HP of damage with a complex damage mod is around an extra 1.7-2.0 HP of damage. Sure your DPS will increase but in the long run you are better off putting something else in your high slots. All anyone with a scout suit has to do is jump behind and around people and thier dead. Until they spray and pray with Duvolles. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes

Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1068	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:09:00 - [81] - Quote john smitharooni wrote: Atiim, why do you and others think this? The fact is that the Heavy suit is the ONLY suit in the game that has access to and can fit ALL weapons. The Heavy can equip more weapons than any other suit. Maybe DUST 514 needs more weapons, but to ask for more weapons for the Heavy, specifically, is unnecessary. The Heavy is in need of more suits than unique weaponry. And that logic is exactly why CCP is dragging their ass on Heavy content. I'd rather have it that Heavies can only use Heavy Weapons in that slot. Go fat or go home you posers. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 000/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 743	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:10:00 - [82] - Quote TuFar Gon wrote: My hmg is nearly maxed,,lvl 5 operation, lvl 5 prof. My ar skill is only lvl 8,,and its MUCH EASIER TO USE. Believe me, the hmg is NOT FINE,tbh I dont even use it anymore. I said the HMG is fine as a CQC weapon. It falls flat on it's face anywhere else. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 584	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:17:00 - [83] - Quote TuFar Gon wrote: My hmg is nearly maxed,,lvl 5 operation, lvl 5 prof. My ar skill is only lvl 8,,and its MUCH EASIER TO USE. Believe me, the hmg is NOT FINE,tbh I dont even use it anymore. AE skill level 8? I think HMG just needs a sharpshooter skill and a buff to ADS dispersion.
TuFar Gon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 40	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:25:00 - [84] - Quote Atiim wrote: TuFar Gon wrote: My hmg is nearly maxed,,lvl 5 operation, lvl 5 prof. My ar skill is only lvl 8,,and its MUCH EASIER TO USE. Believe me, the hmg is NOT FINE,tbh I dont even use it anymore. I said the HMG is fine as a CQC weapon. It falls flat on it's face anywhere else. Big guy the hmg gets beat at cqc by ar's,smg's,scr's,,,maybe its a "hitbox" thing, not sure. But I can tell u that my cqc hvy fit has almost 1400 hp,,and I get mowed down by even militia bs when im using hmg,,DRIVES ME INSANE,,literally just a matter of a few seconds. Dont get me wrong, on the right map I perform rather well with the hmg but tbh there's really only two map variations that would b considered "cqc",,that there is most likely the biggest reason why the hmg just is'nt very useful,,,for now anyway
TuFar Gon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 40	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:33:00 - [85] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: TuFar Gon wrote: My hmg is nearly maxed,,lvl 5 operation, lvl 5 prof. My ar skill is only lvl 8,,and its MUCH EASIER TO USE. Believe me, the hmg is NOT FINE,tbh I dont even use it anymore. AR skill level 8? I think HMG just needs a sharpshooter skill and a buff to ADS dispersion. Lvl 5 ar operation,,lvl 3 prof = lvl 8 (no sarcasm intended)
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 744	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:35:00 - [86] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Atiim wrote: Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU. But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there. But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while". But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle. As those who read the forum a lot know, I almost never say something like this, butGÇª Atiim, you are an idiot! The SMGGÇÖs optimal range is also the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The Laser Canon will not be a mid range weapon. It will likely have a range closer to 80m. The Gallente heavy weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The HMG IS the mid range Heavy weapon. Do some research! Making minor adjustments to the HMG will not effect the timing of the release of other weapons. The HMG may be designed as a mid range weapon, but in it's current state could you really call it anything but CQC? The heavy laser is going to be long range, when have I said it's not? HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
chase rowland The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 63	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:42:00 - [87] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND sorry Atiim, this isnt AR514. HMG is UP, no question about it. use something besides an AR and you will figure out how imbalanced the game is.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 746	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:43:00 - [88] - Quote chase rowland wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND sorry Atiim, this isnt AR514. HMG is UP, no question about it. use something besides an AR and you will figure out how imbalanced the game is. Oh you poor misguided thing.... I don't use ARs. There there Mr. Scout and Ms. Heavy, don't cry You'll still be useful in my eyes
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 115	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:46:00 - [89] - Quote I use many weapons, including HMG and SMG and I can tell you beyond spitting distance HMG's only advantage is a bigger clip, if I could stick a belt into my SMG and still get 200-425 ammo I would use it instead. If that does not imply that current balance is messed up I don't know what it would take I spell it out. I am not saying SMG is OP just that HMG is UP
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1528	Posted - 2013.11.08 14:53:00 - [90] - Quote MCEINSTEIN08 wrote: Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND I think it is wrong when I have a Heavy dropsuit with cumulated 1400 Shield/Armor with HMG Third Tier, with 2 Enhance Damage modules (2x +5% Damage), and I loose vs a Scout with Shot gun. All they need to do is hop around and I can't even scratch them. Sorry, not quite right to me. A Scout with a Shotgun is supposed to be our hard counter. What you describe is intended. That is why Heavy runs with a squad, to keep the Scouts off them. What is not intended is for AR to beat HMG by just standing there and shooting the heavy in the head. Without even bothering to strafe.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1529	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:02:00 - [91] - Quote Atiim wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Atiim wrote: Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU. But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there. But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while". But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle. As those who read the forum a lot know, I almost never say something like this, butGÇª Atiim, you are an idiot! The SMGGÇÖs optimal range is also the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The Laser Canon will not be a mid range weapon. It will likely have a range closer to 80m. The Gallente heavy weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The HMG IS the mid range Heavy weapon. Do some research! Making minor adjustments to the HMG will not effect the timing of the release of other weapons. The HMG may be designed as a mid range weapon, but in it's current state could you really call it anything but CQC? The heavy laser is going to be long range, when have I said it's not? HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209. If you squat it becomes a Mid Ranged weapon, which suggests that the problem is dispersion. I got a kill the other day at 61m with a standard HMG. Granted, the guys was almost dead to start with, and 61m is beyond its effective range, but by Squatting and putting the centre dot right on his head I was able to finish him off.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1529	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:09:00 - [92] - Quote Atiim wrote: HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209. The SMG has a shorter Optimal Range than the HMG, so if you are in the SMGGÇÖs optimal range you are also in the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The defence is that you can reduce the dispersion on the SMG more than the HMG making it outperform the HMG in some situations. The SMG should be able to beat the HMG, but only because it can be used effectively while strafing, dodging and weaving. It is not supposed to be able to beat an HMG in a standing fight where neither side is moving.
Ld Collins The Phalanx Inc 74	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:09:00 - [93] - Quote HMG may not need an improvement and another Hp buff will not solve the issue. I think that the problem with the hmg is there inability to detect other players. The heavy class should be a peekaboo type player they should have high scanner ranges, low db, and have better precision enhancement . It makes sense for medium to light frame players to have higher damage better modules because they are the players who are on the front lines. Heavy frame players should have better sensors than any other suit because heavies don't have equipment slots a heavy cannot use a scanner he cant use uplinks nano hives re explosives he just has a grenade and his HMG. The heavy does have access to every weapon in the game but in comparison to the other suits a heavy is just a slower medium frame suit. Medium frame players should have to sacrifice modules in their suits in order to detect heavys. Also I think another way to use heavy players would be to breach objectives a couple heavys in a jeep spearheading their way through resistance and then backed by other players would be pretty cool. If you use the logistic lavs and a logi to repair the pair of HMG users i dont see how they will have a problem. You should make 3 fits for a heavy 1 for defense one for ambushing and one for breaching strongholds. Prime example of a strong hold would be objective A at the research facility. A defense fit would have modules to detect players, ambushing would have damage mods and breaching would have heavy armor.
Sleepy Zan Xer Cloud Consortium 2738	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:28:00 - [94] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Oh I see what your saying. So your saying that the HMG is where it needs to be as a heavy weapon since it's on the same level as everyone's sidearm. Which in fact costs less and uses up less pg and cpu. Golly, here I was thinking you didn't know what you were talking about A real sniper doesn't provide battlefield intelligence, a real sniper leaves no intelligence left on the battlefield.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1093	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:30:00 - [95] - Quote Atiim wrote: [ I split that between two accounts, mine and my bro's This alt is closing in on 10m. I'm not sure how much SP my bro has though I bet you like to split your bro all the time.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1530	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:43:00 - [96] - Quote Since we have so many Heavies in one thread, I would just like to put it out there that the Learning Coalition could use a few Experienced Heavies to mentor the new guys. We have some of the best Tankers and Scouts in the game participating in the Learning Coalition, but I think we are a little light on Heavies right now. To get involved, join Learning Coalition chat channel, and help out. I have a student right now named Shredder HD who is looking for a heavy to mentor him.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 417	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:46:00 - [97] - Quote This whole thread makes me want to punch babies in the face.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1375	Posted - 2013.11.08 18:45:00 - [98] - Quote Atiim wrote: 17-20 HP of damage with a complex damage mod is around an extra 1.7-2.0 HP of damage. Sure your DPS will increase but in the long run you are better off putting something else in your high slots. How do you figure? A 10% damage mod for a Duvie is going to increase DPS by 10%, as will a 10% d-mod for an HMG will increase that DPS for 10%. Each HMG round may only be two-thirds the damage of an AR round, but the HMG fires two-and-a-half times faster and has a substantially higher DPS as a result. It's nonsensical to use anything but D-mods for heavies. The more HP you have on a suit, the less a shield extender will matter, and a fatty is too slow to care about melee bios, and the more base-DPS a weapon has the more noticeable the effect of a d-mod. In a firefight, a heavy going to be able to take down a target much faster with a 10% d-mod then he's going to last by having an extra 72 shields. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Jane Madson DIRTY LAUNDRY 514 146	Posted - 2013.11.08 19:18:00 - [99] - Quote The biggest problem with the HMG is not the gun, its the player that miss use's it. Each hmg is designed for a specific purpose, the freedom does less damage but has a longer range than the boundless which in turn makes it more deadly than the boundless at range. The boundless damage drops off as the range increases where the freedom may do less damage, but at max range it has alot less depersion. As a dedicated heavy with 20 mill sp who has been playing since closed beta, i can tell you all 3 guns are effective at the roles they are designed to do. Six skin for close inclosed combat, boundless for medium range and freedom for open long range. If you use them that way, you will get more enjoymemt and be a bigger asset with your heavy frame. Long live the Caldari, Death to the Federation
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1243	Posted - 2013.11.08 21:59:00 - [100] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Rynoceros wrote: Range is fine. DPS is (theoretically) fine. HMG needs: Base dispersion reduction of 10-50% (depending on variant - more reduction to Assault variants) Sharpshooter Skill similar to other automatic weapons. Base reload time reduced by 25% Overheat reduction to replace current Sentinel Bonus. None of these are buffs. They are performance optimizations. I think the long reload time adds a tactical aspect to the reload decision which I find interesting. I am ok with it. Also there is a skill that reduces reload time. I rarely overheat. While an overheat reduction bonus might be nice, I would put it on the Minmatar suit. We should be getting it fairly soon. If we replaced the current Sentinel Reload Bonus with an Overheat reduction you can make use of the Ammo Capacity Skill already in place. Without Overheat Reduction, you sizzle out halfway through a maxed out clip - a heavy handicap in battle and compared with cooldown times of other weapons. Removing the Reload Bonus from the suit, as well as implementing a 25% reduction in reload time, you'd come out with the same reload time as someone with the current role bonus - assuming both have the Reload Skill maxed (which we all know is the first thing to address in a HMG build.) and still have a reload time of ~6 seconds. Cheeseburgers.



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