DUST Search - Stop Complaining, The HMG Is Fine

Atiim wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU.

But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there.

But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while".

But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó Lol

But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle.

As those who read the forum a lot know, I almost never say something like this, butGÇª Atiim, you are an idiot!

The SMGGÇÖs optimal range is also the HMGGÇÖs optimal range.

The Laser Canon will not be a mid range weapon. It will likely have a range closer to 80m.

The Gallente heavy weapon will be shorter range than the HMG.

The HMG IS the mid range Heavy weapon. Do some research!

Making minor adjustments to the HMG will not effect the timing of the release of other weapons.

The HMG may be designed as a mid range weapon, but in it's current state could you really call it anything but CQC?

The heavy laser is going to be long range, when have I said it's not?

HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209.

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1529	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:02:00 - [91] - Quote Atiim wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Atiim wrote: Never said STFU to anyone unless they told me or someone else to STFU. But anyways, what SMG was it (weapon and variant); was he running damage mods? prof skills? Was he in his optlimal range? So many things to take into account there. But again look at it from a realistic perspective. If we get a range buff then what happens when they introduce a mid-range heavy weapon? Would CCP think, "Oh heavies are just fine now that we gave the HMGs more range, they won't need new weapons for a while". But on the plus side, heavies were promised new weapons. SoonGäó But on the negative side, I need to save SP so I can test that combat and rail rifle. As those who read the forum a lot know, I almost never say something like this, butGÇª Atiim, you are an idiot! The SMGGÇÖs optimal range is also the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The Laser Canon will not be a mid range weapon. It will likely have a range closer to 80m. The Gallente heavy weapon will be shorter range than the HMG. The HMG IS the mid range Heavy weapon. Do some research! Making minor adjustments to the HMG will not effect the timing of the release of other weapons. The HMG may be designed as a mid range weapon, but in it's current state could you really call it anything but CQC? The heavy laser is going to be long range, when have I said it's not? HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209. If you squat it becomes a Mid Ranged weapon, which suggests that the problem is dispersion. I got a kill the other day at 61m with a standard HMG. Granted, the guys was almost dead to start with, and 61m is beyond its effective range, but by Squatting and putting the centre dot right on his head I was able to finish him off.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1529	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:09:00 - [92] - Quote Atiim wrote: HMGs and SMGs share the same optimal range? Tell that to the sorry suckers I've sprayed and prayed with an MZ209. The SMG has a shorter Optimal Range than the HMG, so if you are in the SMGGÇÖs optimal range you are also in the HMGGÇÖs optimal range. The defence is that you can reduce the dispersion on the SMG more than the HMG making it outperform the HMG in some situations. The SMG should be able to beat the HMG, but only because it can be used effectively while strafing, dodging and weaving. It is not supposed to be able to beat an HMG in a standing fight where neither side is moving.
Ld Collins The Phalanx Inc 74	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:09:00 - [93] - Quote HMG may not need an improvement and another Hp buff will not solve the issue. I think that the problem with the hmg is there inability to detect other players. The heavy class should be a peekaboo type player they should have high scanner ranges, low db, and have better precision enhancement . It makes sense for medium to light frame players to have higher damage better modules because they are the players who are on the front lines. Heavy frame players should have better sensors than any other suit because heavies don't have equipment slots a heavy cannot use a scanner he cant use uplinks nano hives re explosives he just has a grenade and his HMG. The heavy does have access to every weapon in the game but in comparison to the other suits a heavy is just a slower medium frame suit. Medium frame players should have to sacrifice modules in their suits in order to detect heavys. Also I think another way to use heavy players would be to breach objectives a couple heavys in a jeep spearheading their way through resistance and then backed by other players would be pretty cool. If you use the logistic lavs and a logi to repair the pair of HMG users i dont see how they will have a problem. You should make 3 fits for a heavy 1 for defense one for ambushing and one for breaching strongholds. Prime example of a strong hold would be objective A at the research facility. A defense fit would have modules to detect players, ambushing would have damage mods and breaching would have heavy armor.
Sleepy Zan Xer Cloud Consortium 2738	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:28:00 - [94] - Quote Atiim wrote: The HMG is a CQC weapon. And it does it's job brilliantly in the right hands, leading to enemies becoming nothing but mere swiss cheese in it's optimal range. The main problem is the fact that besides the Forge Gun, a CQC weapon is the only thing heavies have. Do not ask to buff the HMG, simply demand that CCP releases heavy weapons. (From my experience) -HAND Oh I see what your saying. So your saying that the HMG is where it needs to be as a heavy weapon since it's on the same level as everyone's sidearm. Which in fact costs less and uses up less pg and cpu. Golly, here I was thinking you didn't know what you were talking about A real sniper doesn't provide battlefield intelligence, a real sniper leaves no intelligence left on the battlefield.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1093	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:30:00 - [95] - Quote Atiim wrote: [ I split that between two accounts, mine and my bro's This alt is closing in on 10m. I'm not sure how much SP my bro has though I bet you like to split your bro all the time.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1530	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:43:00 - [96] - Quote Since we have so many Heavies in one thread, I would just like to put it out there that the Learning Coalition could use a few Experienced Heavies to mentor the new guys. We have some of the best Tankers and Scouts in the game participating in the Learning Coalition, but I think we are a little light on Heavies right now. To get involved, join Learning Coalition chat channel, and help out. I have a student right now named Shredder HD who is looking for a heavy to mentor him.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 417	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:46:00 - [97] - Quote This whole thread makes me want to punch babies in the face.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1375	Posted - 2013.11.08 18:45:00 - [98] - Quote Atiim wrote: 17-20 HP of damage with a complex damage mod is around an extra 1.7-2.0 HP of damage. Sure your DPS will increase but in the long run you are better off putting something else in your high slots. How do you figure? A 10% damage mod for a Duvie is going to increase DPS by 10%, as will a 10% d-mod for an HMG will increase that DPS for 10%. Each HMG round may only be two-thirds the damage of an AR round, but the HMG fires two-and-a-half times faster and has a substantially higher DPS as a result. It's nonsensical to use anything but D-mods for heavies. The more HP you have on a suit, the less a shield extender will matter, and a fatty is too slow to care about melee bios, and the more base-DPS a weapon has the more noticeable the effect of a d-mod. In a firefight, a heavy going to be able to take down a target much faster with a 10% d-mod then he's going to last by having an extra 72 shields. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Jane Madson DIRTY LAUNDRY 514 146	Posted - 2013.11.08 19:18:00 - [99] - Quote The biggest problem with the HMG is not the gun, its the player that miss use's it. Each hmg is designed for a specific purpose, the freedom does less damage but has a longer range than the boundless which in turn makes it more deadly than the boundless at range. The boundless damage drops off as the range increases where the freedom may do less damage, but at max range it has alot less depersion. As a dedicated heavy with 20 mill sp who has been playing since closed beta, i can tell you all 3 guns are effective at the roles they are designed to do. Six skin for close inclosed combat, boundless for medium range and freedom for open long range. If you use them that way, you will get more enjoymemt and be a bigger asset with your heavy frame. Long live the Caldari, Death to the Federation
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1243	Posted - 2013.11.08 21:59:00 - [100] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Rynoceros wrote: Range is fine. DPS is (theoretically) fine. HMG needs: Base dispersion reduction of 10-50% (depending on variant - more reduction to Assault variants) Sharpshooter Skill similar to other automatic weapons. Base reload time reduced by 25% Overheat reduction to replace current Sentinel Bonus. None of these are buffs. They are performance optimizations. I think the long reload time adds a tactical aspect to the reload decision which I find interesting. I am ok with it. Also there is a skill that reduces reload time. I rarely overheat. While an overheat reduction bonus might be nice, I would put it on the Minmatar suit. We should be getting it fairly soon. If we replaced the current Sentinel Reload Bonus with an Overheat reduction you can make use of the Ammo Capacity Skill already in place. Without Overheat Reduction, you sizzle out halfway through a maxed out clip - a heavy handicap in battle and compared with cooldown times of other weapons. Removing the Reload Bonus from the suit, as well as implementing a 25% reduction in reload time, you'd come out with the same reload time as someone with the current role bonus - assuming both have the Reload Skill maxed (which we all know is the first thing to address in a HMG build.) and still have a reload time of ~6 seconds. Cheeseburgers.



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