I can see that you have a hard time believing that this is possible, but NASA landed on the moon with 640kb of Ram, couldn't CCP do better? Do you play COD?

It sounds like you need an introduction to CCP.

Look at DUST right now. This is CCP with like five years of development work.

Draco, the problem is that the suggestion that CCP switch to an open world model is simply not in the bounds of reality. If a CPM member starts going on about open world, it'd actually be harmful to the CPM, because CCP would disregard what they say entirely, due to how unrealistic the goal is. For the CPM to be effective, the goals have to be realistic.

There's a ton of options on where to go to make gameplay more dynamic, to make the game feel more like a sandbox, and such. But any sort of open world would likely involve years of development time, and an outright abandonment of the current game in the meantime. You talk about switching game engines like that is less than actually deleting everything and starting over from scratch.

And throwing some money at the problem and hiring more people does not actually make a problem go away, or even necessarily become quicker to solve.

any sort of open world would likely involve years of development time, and an outright abandonment of the current game in the meantime.

I don't agree with you nor am I currently running for CPM. Neither should you be, and bringing in the idea that you have already been elected to CPM1 is not something I suggest you do in any future dealings with players.

Switching game engines doesn't need to be deleting everything and starting from scratch, for instance, player stats, skills and gear is stored on a SQL D-base on the Eve server. The maps are but a graphic that has been vectored to have structure, something that can easily be replicated in something such as Blender, and in all reality can be copied over to any new game engine they choose to use.

Don't run for CPM, you don't want to fix things. If you did you would offer ideas, rather than just saying it can't be done.

At no point did I ever do this.

Switching game engines doesn't need to be deleting everything and starting from scratch, for instance, player stats, skills and gear is stored on a SQL D-base on the Eve server. The maps are but a graphic that has been vectored to have structure, something that can easily be replicated in something such as Blender, and in all reality can be copied over to any new game engine they choose to use.

I think you vastly underestimate how much of the game is actual code that has to actually be rewritten to use a different game engine. Like vastly. Years of development work. The entire game code, as a whole. I'm not talking about user data. I'm talking about the game mechanics. Rewriting all of them, from scratch.

Incorrect. I have offered plenty of ideas, all over these forums. But they'd be wasted in a thread where the OP thinks the game engine is plug-and-playable. There's actually a document I wrote up that I'm waiting to run by someone else before I post up anywhere. It's kinda a high-concept long-term plan thing.

If CCP starts over from scratch it would take years to get back to the quality of game we have now.

I think a better solution is for CCP to do as much as they can within the bounds of their current technology, and then expand on that as the technology improves. Maybe someday they will be able to unlock that door in your merc quarters.

But for now, we could get a semblance of Open World by allowing players to enter their CorporationGÇÖs districts when there is not a battle going on. We could have less formal conflicts by having a total Cap for number of mercs in a District (due to hardware restrictions), but not capping how many per side (or having uneven caps so that defenders have a home field advantage and attackers have to behave like a raiding party.)

I'm running out hands to facepalm with. Out of curiosity, when you say you have "ten years of coding experience", have you ever worked with a game engine? Or Unreal, specifically?

I don't think this would necessarily need to be a start over from scratch, CCP can modify code, Eve has proved this with it's Open World play style and it shows that there is promise in the idea that Jackal posted during Open Beta. I can't find the link but I am sure he would remember it. Still the idea that the each part of new eden should need the other is important for this game. I don't think that asking for this kind of interconnection is unrealistic and rather would help introduce new things to do in both Eve and Dust, allowing us to have more fun. Honestly, it makes no sense to me as to why anyone would want to be trapped in their quarters all the time unless given a gun to go shoot some random redberries.

Just so you understand the problem, it is not hardware restrictions, rather it is coding restrictions, problems with the Unreal Engine that are causing the trouble. It was only ever meant to be a holdover until Open World gameplay had time to be developed. They were talking about designing their own engine to deal with Open World. This is something I feel should have its own separate team of Devs to accomplish, working alongside to maintain the game mechanics changes as they happen and implement them into the Open World coding.

Why live in a box, there is a whole universe out there?

EVE pilots can only leave their quarters by boarding their ship. Yes EVE is open world, but that world is space, which by definition is virtually empty. It is a sky box, and a few props scattered in a sea of black nothing. I donGÇÖt think the equivalent could be done with DUST. You could make a flat grey surface which stretched for miles in every direction, but it would not be very interesting.

I know WOW did open world by splitting the map into zones, so only one zone would load up at a time. Maybe something like that could be done in DUST with districts.

For all your 10 years of experience programming, your ideas sound like vapour-ware to me. You say the Unreal Engine is not good and that CCP could easily create a new Game Engine from scratch that would fix all their problems and allow them to do massive open world game play on the PS3. I may not have a lot of programming experience compared to you and Soraya Xel, but that sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Ok because I am not sure anyone in Dust understands the Yulai Accord, it outlawed mining the planetary surfaces. Players strip mined the planets for minerals causing wholesale destruction of people, animals and the vegetation of the planets.

I am not suggesting that anyone repeal this law, but rather suggest there are better ways to acquire minerals, for example Miners in Eve have vast resources, can do it better and faster than anyone on a planet ever could. I also think that extracting mins from salvage and giving parts of the pool to mercs would not help anyone and would rather make the market process for mercs more complicated, with less isk to go around.

Manufacturing large quantities of items is something that Eve pilots have become great at, have whole skill groups dedicated to and would be more than adequate to provide for Dust with little effort on their part involved.

Having Dust stand on its own as a game really isn't that difficult to do. For instance, Eve player contracts, and real benefits for players to acquire districts, would allow us to become a necessary part of Eve and not an afterthought. I thought we were supposed to be Mercenaries, not boardroom traders and industrialists.

In addition to this, PC battles could actually move the available PC districts up in number, spreading the conflict to the surrounding solar systems, and help Eve players maintain control over their PI while massive attacks from drones come to harvest the in place extraction materials.

Another benefit to PC battles could be the ability to deploy to districts owned to explore them, root out drones to kill and practice basic teamwork as well as make encroachments on other people's districts, areas they do PVE in and ambush them to cause tears, and I know CCP likes tears.

Including salvage from Drones found on planetary surfaces as materials for weapons, equipment and dropsuits would be a great way to make Eve players (again manufacturing items) dependant on the Dust market for their manufacturing processes and would help keep the fluctuations balanced.

Keeping the manufacturing processes in Eve would mean we could keep product transportation in the hands of Eve pilots as well, a task they are quite suited for and have adequate ways to do this.

Original plans for Dust included troop transport by Eve players. This would remove the inability to move from station to station to acquire goods remotely. Another option is allow the players to make Jump Clones, allowing instantaneous transport between systems. I could see Jita quickly becoming clogged with Dust players looking for a deal and recommend building a new market hub for Dust Items or using Rens or Hek as their main trade hub as the local population usually doesn't go higher than 1000 players at any one time that I have seen in my trade trips.

On top of all this, there has been talk in the past of giving mercs the ability to take to the stars, to go attack Eve ships with boarding modules and take them over for Eve players, transporting a Dust player may become necessary if this were to happen, rather than destroying a ship (something that fuels the market currently). This would become especially useful in Null Sec as I am sure there are some pilots with their eyes on other Pilot's Titans, Carriers and Rorquals not to mention High Sec Gankers looking for an easier way to move their spoils of war through capturing whole Freighters or Orcas being used to haul goods to market.

This would essentially turn Dust into an Open World game, for the most part giving us other avenues isk gain, tears, and providing a manufacturing line from supply, to manufacturing and market. I really don't think that Dust would be unable to stand on its own as a game, it was meant to be a part of New Eden, not separate from it.

One Universe::One War

Note: The Yulai Accord has already been broken. Otherwise what do you think Planetary Interaction is?

I am just suggesting that going with their original plan may be best, to build their own engine from scratch, something they have proven that they can do, as show with Eve, Eve Valkyrie, and that Vampire game they were building. I hate how everyone thinks that CCP can't do this or that, look at Eve GodDammit its a masterpiece.

They built one. Carbon can barely support a single character in a single room on even high end PCs. World of Darkness is vaporware. Valkyrie is in development, and also, for now, vaporware. EVE is layers of bad, worse, and decent code layered on top of each other and held together with duct tape. It's maybe a masterpiece in the way Picasso is a masterpiece: So freaking weird, you just have to marvel at it.

The ludicrousness of saying "just suggesting" and "build their own engine" in the same sentence speaks of someone with an unhinged view of development. Rome was not built in a day, and neither was Unreal, Frostbite, Source, or any other game engine.

Dude, you were specifically talking about the game engine. Pot, meet kettle.

I believe they make perfectly fine software, but I also realize it takes a lot of time, something you don't seem to grasp.

I didn't say it wasn't good, what I implied was that there are issues with it. It is great for a lobby shooter, but that is not what having a combined PVE/PVP environment where people can move between districts implies, and I think it would cause issues due to the current issues it is having with 16v16 battles and equipment spam. Now add NPCs and an undefined number of players all being instanced in the unreal engine (which at its hey day supported if I remember correctly up to 24 players). What is clear is that CCP has issues with lag spike and their current engine, what is not clear is what would be the best fix.

I am just suggesting that going with their original plan may be best, to build their own engine from scratch, something they have proven that they can do, as show with Eve, Eve Valkyrie, and that Vampire game they were building. I hate how everyone thinks that CCP can't do this or that, look at Eve GodDammit its a masterpiece.

I'll bet when the first person suggested Dust, there were those that thought it was vaporware too.

If CCP is going to switch to using a different Game Engin, particularly if they are going to create that Game Engin themselves, they should do so as part of the move to PS4. Much of the game will have to be replicated in a new format for the PS4 anyway.

Starting over with a new Game Engin on the PS3 would seem to me to be a waist of resources. Can we agree on this point?

Indeed, I mentioned that if it were not possible within the existing one that there are alternatives to be explored, not that it had to be done now. You still have missed the topic though in almost all of your posts, One Universe::One Market.

This market endeavor needs to be pursued more fully and it requires certain things to be complete, I fully realize this. I also notice that there are several things even just as recently as this last patch that didn't need to be in place for this to happen, such as all the new faction items.

This massive influx of "new gear" that replicates what the old does, is not necessary, but it is here now. I assume from the move to complete the asset list for all classes is at the moment more important to CCP but I still think we can have a viable connected market if they chose a direction and started on their way down that path.

It still seems a very long road to travel with only an NPC market and so many industrialists in Eve able to produce gear for us just waiting and watching to see if CCP connects the games in a way that makes a difference to them. This would do it.

If I remember correctly the EVE/DUST link and a real economy was one of Soraya XelGÇÖs priorities.

I think the whole argument between you two started when you mentioned that GÇ£Yesterday in Null Sec there were over 1000 people duking it out with Titans and Sub Caps, that is the ability I want for DustGÇ¥ and he pointed out that their were technological restrictions preventing that from happening. Then you got mad at him for being a downer, and the two of you started arguing over what was possible from a programming standpoint. To be fair to Soraya Xel, he was mostly talking about ISK exchange rates and similar on topic posts before that.

Back on topic. My suggestion to start with a DUST only market is for faster implementation, and to test and refine the interface, as the same interface would be used in an EVE/DUST market. I am also not suggesting that they hold off on development of the EVE/DUST market. I just think that will take longer to develop, so they can release the DUST/DUST market soon, and add in the other components as they are ready. I just don't want to wait another 6 months to sell my salvage.

Draco, I told you why. Multiple times. If you aren't capable of grasping it, that's really not my fault. I guess I can apologize for failing to dumb it down far enough for you, I suppose. I have failed you, and for that I'm sorry.

I am fully in support of a full EVE/DUST combined player market. As it is, DUST items are already visible in EVE, EVE players are just prohibited from actually buying them. I think CCP should indeed focus on getting currencies aligned and getting a cross-game market in place within the next calendar year. Hopefully, they can get us something in that regard in time for Fanfest.

I think the EVE and DUST markets should stay separate but one thing should happen. Like the EVE market we, in Dust, should be able to sell stuff back into the market like suits we cant use or equipment we wont use.

We should be able to sell them for half o fthe original price.
AUR items.......eh are a little sketchy cause I don't think they should be able to be sold back but all ISK items yes.

I don't think Soraya Xel is in it for anyone other than Soraya Xel and I really don't care what he is selling, I'm not buying, everyone wants a market. As for the merits of his argument, just saying no it can't happen without a reason for it is stupid. It gives the illusion of knowledge without any proof and sounds like my kids when they don't want to eat their vegetables.

Your Dust to Dust market idea seems ok but I'd like to point out that there is gear loss, salvage is not 100% and this means we need people to manufacture the gear for us. Plain and simple the easy route in this is an Eve to Dust to Eve market. This reduces overhead on Dust and would only require CCP to implement a PVE with salvage mode to make it work in addition to the market, whether it is whakamole in the MQ for salvage or all out PVE with an Open World.

Edit: Salvage could also be in the form of Scrap Metal or "Charged Sniper Scope", a slight change to how the PVP battles are salvaged with greater salvage acquired, with no need for PVE although this would disappoint a few people.