Actually I'd prefer to keep it within DUST at all times.

Being reliant on EVE makes the game subject to EVE whim, and forces us to play EVE to some extent. DUST should be able to be contained just within DUST, but reward for using EVE on top of the 'complete' game itself.

So DUST Manufacture would have to replace the NPC Market, with some high-grade weapons, vehciles, armours possible only through interaction between the two (and vice versa for EVE-side using DUST Materials to further augment EVE-based markets items) rather than be dependant on each other.

If DUST becomes dependant on EVE, then it's a weighted scaled since EVE would either a) be the 'lord', able to control DUST via markets, or b) ALSO be dependant on DUST in an EQUAL way which would mean changing EVE and probably annoying most of their player base that suddenly they can't master their own universe without help from outside the game itself.

Let's keep markets in DUST, DUST controlled, with EVE augmentation, not reliance.

Fox, Jackal, I like both of your ideas, but wonder, are mercenaries going to want to spend the SP training manufacturing skills? I have seen numerous posts on ideas from mining to PI to manufacture but can't help but think that New Eden is already reliant on capsuleers for minerals, PI products and research as well as manufacturing.

With such a strong base towards all these things, doesn't it make sense to give Eve players a reason to care about what goes on in the Dust areas? I see little interaction with the Dust players in so far as to not feel rewarded in one bit for successfully dropping an orbital, and while it helps Dust players to have the backup in space there is no payoff for Eve players to do this.

A kill mail doesn't pay for a ship that drops the orbital and it is silly to think that having an Eve fleet of Battleships, Battlecruiser, Cruisers, destroyers and Frigates even at low tech levels and often at higher tech levels, could pay for itself. Where is the benefit to losing a 300mil isk ship, even just one, to make sure the fleet can get the orbital off. Where is the benefit to losing even a 10 mil isk ship to get the orbital off? There is none other than to Dust players.

This interaction of being able to destroy equipment and gear and then sell it to the same person is what makes New Eden great. Only allowing mercenaries to manufacture the equipment used detracts from the interaction that many of us long for and hope for. One of a symbiotic nature rather than just being ants on the ground to be crushed, the lifeblood of a new economy, one that strengthens both parties and binds them together.

In conclusion, I respectfully submit that you both are being shortsighted in your desires to contain the market to the Dust community, there is a bigger universe out there with opportunities to bring new Eve pilots into your corporations and teach them about the other half of New Eden. Don't you want to manufacture your own equipment with the support of your Eve pilots bringing their considerable industrial might to bear?

CCP still consjder dust their little side project. Hilmar said in a recent interview that they would rather work on the fps part instead of improving the connection so I guess we'll be waiting a long time

Ok, let's look at this from an EVE point of View.

(And yes, there are trader coalitions that force set price bubbles in systems and / or regions to maintain profit... if you undercut them, they buy at your discounted price, and relist it at their price. It is VERY common in EVE.)

The smallest ship that EVE players can make is the Shuttle. It has a 5,000m3 Volume, and 1,600 metric tonnes. It requires 2750 Tritanium (Extremely Common Element) at 'perfect' skills to mak.

Now though we don't have the detailed information of volume and weight in DUST, we can be pretty accurate that a HAV weighs at least 1/10th of that (16 metric tonnes) probably less, but I'm doing this to illustrate a point.

Now the Caldari Shuttle sells for an average of 10-15k ISK in The Forge (Main Trade Hub is Jita). You reduce the materials by 1/10th and the cost as well (since EVE pilots wont need as much materials to manufacture) and you get a Tank on a rough equivalent scale of 275 Tritanium, and an average sale price of 1 - 1.5k for 'baseline' averages.

Imagine if HAVs started costing that little... and suits, weapons, anything that is DUST, since it's relative scale is so much smaller. Where as, if you make the materials to build things DUST-side, you have the ability to further modify the prices by changing the requirements to build it outside of EVE-based material levels.

I think this problem, is in part, one of the costs of poor implementation of the currency values in DUST, compared to EVE, but yeah. All you need is for DUST mercs to gain special materials used for DUST gear. Eventually through PvE perhaps, but one source, for now, could be the reprocessing of salvage.

I don't think this would necessarily need to be a start over from scratch, CCP can modify code, Eve has proved this with it's Open World play style and it shows that there is promise in the idea that Jackal posted during Open Beta. I can't find the link but I am sure he would remember it. Still the idea that the each part of new eden should need the other is important for this game. I don't think that asking for this kind of interconnection is unrealistic and rather would help introduce new things to do in both Eve and Dust, allowing us to have more fun. Honestly, it makes no sense to me as to why anyone would want to be trapped in their quarters all the time unless given a gun to go shoot some random redberries.

Just so you understand the problem, it is not hardware restrictions, rather it is coding restrictions, problems with the Unreal Engine that are causing the trouble. It was only ever meant to be a holdover until Open World gameplay had time to be developed. They were talking about designing their own engine to deal with Open World. This is something I feel should have its own separate team of Devs to accomplish, working alongside to maintain the game mechanics changes as they happen and implement them into the Open World coding.

Why live in a box, there is a whole universe out there?

I didn't say it wasn't good, what I implied was that there are issues with it. It is great for a lobby shooter, but that is not what having a combined PVE/PVP environment where people can move between districts implies, and I think it would cause issues due to the current issues it is having with 16v16 battles and equipment spam. Now add NPCs and an undefined number of players all being instanced in the unreal engine (which at its hey day supported if I remember correctly up to 24 players). What is clear is that CCP has issues with lag spike and their current engine, what is not clear is what would be the best fix.

I am just suggesting that going with their original plan may be best, to build their own engine from scratch, something they have proven that they can do, as show with Eve, Eve Valkyrie, and that Vampire game they were building. I hate how everyone thinks that CCP can't do this or that, look at Eve GodDammit its a masterpiece.

I'll bet when the first person suggested Dust, there were those that thought it was vaporware too.

Indeed, I mentioned that if it were not possible within the existing one that there are alternatives to be explored, not that it had to be done now. You still have missed the topic though in almost all of your posts, One Universe::One Market.

This market endeavor needs to be pursued more fully and it requires certain things to be complete, I fully realize this. I also notice that there are several things even just as recently as this last patch that didn't need to be in place for this to happen, such as all the new faction items.

This massive influx of "new gear" that replicates what the old does, is not necessary, but it is here now. I assume from the move to complete the asset list for all classes is at the moment more important to CCP but I still think we can have a viable connected market if they chose a direction and started on their way down that path.

It still seems a very long road to travel with only an NPC market and so many industrialists in Eve able to produce gear for us just waiting and watching to see if CCP connects the games in a way that makes a difference to them. This would do it.

I don't think Soraya Xel is in it for anyone other than Soraya Xel and I really don't care what he is selling, I'm not buying, everyone wants a market. As for the merits of his argument, just saying no it can't happen without a reason for it is stupid. It gives the illusion of knowledge without any proof and sounds like my kids when they don't want to eat their vegetables.

Your Dust to Dust market idea seems ok but I'd like to point out that there is gear loss, salvage is not 100% and this means we need people to manufacture the gear for us. Plain and simple the easy route in this is an Eve to Dust to Eve market. This reduces overhead on Dust and would only require CCP to implement a PVE with salvage mode to make it work in addition to the market, whether it is whakamole in the MQ for salvage or all out PVE with an Open World.

Edit: Salvage could also be in the form of Scrap Metal or "Charged Sniper Scope", a slight change to how the PVP battles are salvaged with greater salvage acquired, with no need for PVE although this would disappoint a few people.

Edit2: So basically you don't think the OW expansion is a near future thing, still something they indicated during Closed Beta was possible and probably in the nearish future. This tells me that they believe it is.

No. It's not a near future thing. An open world game design (aka, no redline, you can go from district to district on the ground) is more likely an almost probably never thing. The CPM5 might have to deal with that.