Why, for the love of Dust, has this not been implemented yet?

I don't think that moving between stations is necessary for this, this is the part where eve side support comes in, moving goods to the appropriate locations and making them available for consumption. Implementing a buy order system in this game would give us the ability to purchase items at our locations without the need to go somewhere else. This would also by necessity involve a trade items option between dust and dust as well as eve to dust and dust to eve.

I don't think that moving between stations is necessary for this, this is the part where eve side support comes in, moving goods to the appropriate locations and making them available for consumption. Implementing a buy order system in this game would give us the ability to purchase items at our locations without the need to go somewhere else. This would also by necessity involve a trade items option between dust and dust as well as eve to dust and dust to eve.

EVE integration can be phased in later, such as EVE manufacturing replacing the NPC market, and EVE players buying DUST Drone salvage to build gear to sell to DUST mercs.

Fox, Jackal, I like both of your ideas, but wonder, are mercenaries going to want to spend the SP training manufacturing skills? I have seen numerous posts on ideas from mining to PI to manufacture but can't help but think that New Eden is already reliant on capsuleers for minerals, PI products and research as well as manufacturing.

With such a strong base towards all these things, doesn't it make sense to give Eve players a reason to care about what goes on in the Dust areas? I see little interaction with the Dust players in so far as to not feel rewarded in one bit for successfully dropping an orbital, and while it helps Dust players to have the backup in space there is no payoff for Eve players to do this.

A kill mail doesn't pay for a ship that drops the orbital and it is silly to think that having an Eve fleet of Battleships, Battlecruiser, Cruisers, destroyers and Frigates even at low tech levels and often at higher tech levels, could pay for itself. Where is the benefit to losing a 300mil isk ship, even just one, to make sure the fleet can get the orbital off. Where is the benefit to losing even a 10 mil isk ship to get the orbital off? There is none other than to Dust players.

This interaction of being able to destroy equipment and gear and then sell it to the same person is what makes New Eden great. Only allowing mercenaries to manufacture the equipment used detracts from the interaction that many of us long for and hope for. One of a symbiotic nature rather than just being ants on the ground to be crushed, the lifeblood of a new economy, one that strengthens both parties and binds them together.

In conclusion, I respectfully submit that you both are being shortsighted in your desires to contain the market to the Dust community, there is a bigger universe out there with opportunities to bring new Eve pilots into your corporations and teach them about the other half of New Eden. Don't you want to manufacture your own equipment with the support of your Eve pilots bringing their considerable industrial might to bear?

It's not so much that we want to contain ourselves to DUST only, it's that DUST needs to stand alone in the first instance. having it be reliant on EVE only puts our players at EVE's mercy. Something CCP and most of the community will not want.

The fact that EVE already has a manufacturing base doesn't preclude DUST having one, however the implementation WILL have to be different. I have a few ideas on how it could be implemented with little to no 'Roid Shooting', but DUST needs to take care of DUST.

Imagine if the tables were flipped. Do you think EVE Players would like it if they HAD to come to DUST players to get their ships? We manufactured for them, and removed their ability to manufacture?

EVE to EVE, and DUST to DUST at first. Let them stand apart and whole, then fill in the grey area to 'enhance' but not make reliant upon each other.

Consider the Yulai Accord as a good reason not to mine. Consider also the vast number of additions in assets to the game that would be needed for this just in manufacturing alone. I also humbly submit that if you think you can mine better with a pickaxe than a Hulk and Rorqual, have at er. Manufacturing in Dust would be a joke.

It's not like we actually have a reason to at the moment and if we have people scouring planets for parts etc, what would happen to the lobby? OMG another good reason to go Open World, still I don't believe that manufacturing items in Dust is realistic. Are you going to haul the stuff to the market on your back, across countless solar systems and regions, with scotty the drunken matchmaker sending you there? I think not.

Actually I'd prefer to keep it within DUST at all times.

Being reliant on EVE makes the game subject to EVE whim, and forces us to play EVE to some extent. DUST should be able to be contained just within DUST, but reward for using EVE on top of the 'complete' game itself.

So DUST Manufacture would have to replace the NPC Market, with some high-grade weapons, vehciles, armours possible only through interaction between the two (and vice versa for EVE-side using DUST Materials to further augment EVE-based markets items) rather than be dependant on each other.

If DUST becomes dependant on EVE, then it's a weighted scaled since EVE would either a) be the 'lord', able to control DUST via markets, or b) ALSO be dependant on DUST in an EQUAL way which would mean changing EVE and probably annoying most of their player base that suddenly they can't master their own universe without help from outside the game itself.

Let's keep markets in DUST, DUST controlled, with EVE augmentation, not reliance.

Fox, Jackal, I like both of your ideas, but wonder, are mercenaries going to want to spend the SP training manufacturing skills? I have seen numerous posts on ideas from mining to PI to manufacture but can't help but think that New Eden is already reliant on capsuleers for minerals, PI products and research as well as manufacturing.

With such a strong base towards all these things, doesn't it make sense to give Eve players a reason to care about what goes on in the Dust areas? I see little interaction with the Dust players in so far as to not feel rewarded in one bit for successfully dropping an orbital, and while it helps Dust players to have the backup in space there is no payoff for Eve players to do this.

A kill mail doesn't pay for a ship that drops the orbital and it is silly to think that having an Eve fleet of Battleships, Battlecruiser, Cruisers, destroyers and Frigates even at low tech levels and often at higher tech levels, could pay for itself. Where is the benefit to losing a 300mil isk ship, even just one, to make sure the fleet can get the orbital off. Where is the benefit to losing even a 10 mil isk ship to get the orbital off? There is none other than to Dust players.

This interaction of being able to destroy equipment and gear and then sell it to the same person is what makes New Eden great. Only allowing mercenaries to manufacture the equipment used detracts from the interaction that many of us long for and hope for. One of a symbiotic nature rather than just being ants on the ground to be crushed, the lifeblood of a new economy, one that strengthens both parties and binds them together.

In conclusion, I respectfully submit that you both are being shortsighted in your desires to contain the market to the Dust community, there is a bigger universe out there with opportunities to bring new Eve pilots into your corporations and teach them about the other half of New Eden. Don't you want to manufacture your own equipment with the support of your Eve pilots bringing their considerable industrial might to bear?

CCP still consjder dust their little side project. Hilmar said in a recent interview that they would rather work on the fps part instead of improving the connection so I guess we'll be waiting a long time

Ok, let's look at this from an EVE point of View.

(And yes, there are trader coalitions that force set price bubbles in systems and / or regions to maintain profit... if you undercut them, they buy at your discounted price, and relist it at their price. It is VERY common in EVE.)

The smallest ship that EVE players can make is the Shuttle. It has a 5,000m3 Volume, and 1,600 metric tonnes. It requires 2750 Tritanium (Extremely Common Element) at 'perfect' skills to mak.

Now though we don't have the detailed information of volume and weight in DUST, we can be pretty accurate that a HAV weighs at least 1/10th of that (16 metric tonnes) probably less, but I'm doing this to illustrate a point.

Now the Caldari Shuttle sells for an average of 10-15k ISK in The Forge (Main Trade Hub is Jita). You reduce the materials by 1/10th and the cost as well (since EVE pilots wont need as much materials to manufacture) and you get a Tank on a rough equivalent scale of 275 Tritanium, and an average sale price of 1 - 1.5k for 'baseline' averages.

Imagine if HAVs started costing that little... and suits, weapons, anything that is DUST, since it's relative scale is so much smaller. Where as, if you make the materials to build things DUST-side, you have the ability to further modify the prices by changing the requirements to build it outside of EVE-based material levels.

I think this problem, is in part, one of the costs of poor implementation of the currency values in DUST, compared to EVE, but yeah. All you need is for DUST mercs to gain special materials used for DUST gear. Eventually through PvE perhaps, but one source, for now, could be the reprocessing of salvage.

Draco, that was a well thought out post and a solid argument.

Edit: So, minus the mining part, what do you think of my suggestion for PVE/PVP raiding in districts?

I would be very doubtful you will see an "open map" for years, if ever. Given the limitations they're hitting with their design on the PS3, I'd expect such a drastic expansion to be after a PS4 version, and then the eventual closure of the PS3 version. As even once we get a PS4 version, backwards compatibility will likely keep certain limitations in place.