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Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
1248
   |
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:22:00 -
[151] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
1. Called out my tank to kill another tank instead of I don't know using OP AV.
2. Yes my point exactly swarms are OP because they can hit you almost anywhere on the map while an HAV can not
3. Go back to school and learn to read I activated mods as soon as I was hit says it above your comment.
4. It was on ambush, I never call out tanks on ambush unless It is called in to take out another tank (then I recall once destroyed)
5.There was no redline there ambush
6.1 OK this is off the top my head so nothings exact but lets say you have a Proto blaster with over 5 mil in blaster (turret operation, hybrid turret operation, enforcer skill.) you would do lets say 200 damage a shot blaster fires 420 shots a min I think so 7 a second times 15 seconds is 105 shots multiplied by 200 damage is 21,000 damage in 15 seconds.
6.2 This number is only 6,000 over a swarm and I'm a ******* tank with a 12 foot long barrel that rapidly shoots bullets the size of your fist. It may have only taked 12 seconds so that's a few thousand difference that can be eliminated, the swarm dealt about 15,600 so that shortens the gap even further. then you have to factor in the turret over heats as well as slows down as it's about to over heat so that's a few seconds of not firing to cool your heat so that you don't overheat
6.3 So your hand held weapon does more than my tank can in the same amount of time for much less sp, Complex dmg mods cost prob 1mil sp 600 sp for PRO weapon plus 1.5 mil for proficiency so about 3.1 (not infantry so numbers might be slightly off)
in total it costs 500k sp less the enforcer upgrade alone. Your proficiency helps you in your infantry game nut my hybrid turret skill only helps me rail snipe which I don't do.
1. I love this tanks should be the counter to tanks bs argument. Go look up something called a Javelin then tell me infantry weapons shouldn't be powerful enough to take out armor. 2. I don't use swarms, I use a FG, so arguing with me about the OPness of swarms is futile. I can tell you that unless I'm going against a very crappy tanker, the tanker gets away every time. 3. You specifically said Quote: I got hit by proto swarms from behind(no mods running didn't see it coming). I kept going so that I could turn onto the C road and escape you said absolutely nothing about hitting reps. 4. You should have specified in your OP. 5. See 4. 6. You can deal 21,000 damage in 15 seconds, and take 15,000 damage to be destroyed. How much damage do you think a Heavy can deal in 15 seconds with a FG. Lets see...7 shots at 1,738/shot with Prof. 5, about 2,050 with comp damage mods that is 14,355 damage in 15 seconds (if he can live that long) How much damage can a Heavy Dropsuit take? Maximum of about 1500! So in the time it takes a Heavy to kill you once, you could have killed a Heavy 10 times! Lets talk cost. A Proto Heavy Dropsuit with 3 comp plates 2 Comp. Dam. Mods, Adv. SMG, Ishukone FG, and M! nades runs more than 200k x that by 10 deaths = 2 - 3 ISK. How much is one of your tanks? 1. My opinion on what should take out a tank A. a better fitted tank B. A rail tank C. Three or more coordinated AV specialists D. Missile ADS with gunners 2. You say tanks are OP yet you don't use the weapon built to counter armor, IF your advocating for a FG buff then say so 3.My active modules that provide HP or reduction of damage that I had running were 2x carapace armor hardeners (the best ones) and 1 heavy efficient rep (the best rep in the game) to clarify. 4.-5. Sorry I should have specified 6. A tank is hard to maneuver through tight spaces while a heavy can use cover and height to his advantage. If you actually read 6.1-6.3 you would realize my estimate was very generous because you lose thousands of damage due to over heat, range, I got my 200 dmg a shot estimate form PRO blaster base dps around 146 multiplied by 30%(enforcer skill maxed 15% Hybrid turret maxed 5% turret upgrade maxed 10%) is like 191 damage so you lose a few thousand from that as well. My pub fit 800K my PC fit about 1.5 1.6 mil (same fit different blaster) Once I lose one tank I've gone negative You lose one fit you can choose to spawn in free anti armor suits (I killed a 1.5 mill tank with them once) Want to kill a tank here's a tip hit the rear a bonus of 28% damage
Your opinion on wht should counter a HAV is ludicrous! 1/3 of a team to counter 1 guy is just insane! It's so unfathomably stupid, I just can't stress how broke that is.
I'm not calling for a FG buff. the FG is effective against shield and armor because it is a Hybrid Railgun weapon.
I did read what you wrote, but you simply aren't acknowledging my response. You do way way more damage and have way way more survivability that a Heavy.
You obviously want HAVs to be unstoppable rolling armageddon machinnes. QFT! |
Eurydice Itzhak
Militaires Sans Jeux
230
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:36:00 -
[152] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Eurydice Itzhak wrote:
Oh sweet jesus. MLT LAV requires 0 SP. 40k isk.
Dont whine about using crappy gear and crappy tactics and not blowing up tanks.
I have like 2m into infantry. ADV forge, ADV grenades. My friend has ADV swarms, ADV grenades.
Dead tanks ALL DAY when we roll up in an LAV.
I'm sure it could be solo'd if either of us had proto.
Just stop being bad man.
How are you gonna like my thread, then call me a bad player?  I didn't know Advanced Assault FGs were "crappy" gear. As a matter of fact, is it not a common mantra around here that "gear doesn't give you that big of an advantage". I guess nowadays in DUST 514 it's go Proto of go home huh? Oooh you have 2 mil into infantry, so you're obviously an HAV driver no? Why should I believe anything you have to say on the matter? Surely you aren't biased toward vehicles. I have 15 mil SP dedicated to Infantry, over 10 mil of which is dedicated into Heavies. I am not complaining about HAVs being OP, in case you didn't bother to read my thread, I am stating they simply aren't UP as some would have the community at large to believe. So don't try to make it look as if I'm just QQing. Your Forum Trolling needs to be trained.
Seeing as i have experience with both sides of the fence (and I'm quite good at them) shouldn't my words carry more weight?
I have **** gear and I steamroll tanks. You have over seven times my sp in infantry yet you cant blow up tanks. Someone else said it earlier. Have you ever considered that you suck at AV?
Madrugars with bugged 3x HP repair are almost viable. Shield tanks are worthless.
Also if i liked your thread consider it a phone error. Likely trying to scroll :( |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
670
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 20:48:00 -
[153] - Quote
It's not about good tanker or bad tanker. It's about the dps from AV weapons.
If you sit a tank at point blank in front of a player and fire the various AV weapons at the tank while it's hardener is running how much damage should that tank be able to take from how many hits in so much amount of time?
That's the basis for evaluating balance. I don't think CCP has done that or they would have stuck with the present mechanics. Tanks should not be getting destroyed from the kind of DPS they are now from a single proto AV player when they are resisting damage and moving out of the area due to being attacked.
It's a matter of the shear logistics of movement of a tank versus threat and LoS. |
Void Echo
Blades of Dust
1965
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:20:00 -
[154] - Quote
**** all of you |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
2300
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 21:54:00 -
[155] - Quote
Agree 100%
I got into militia tanks for a few days and the only people that took me out were people with proto AV. There weren't even people in my small turrets. I was beasting and feasting, being a pest, beating all the rest.
Tactics, not brute force. Be a Bruce Lee, not a Hulk. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:13:00 -
[156] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:
1. Called out my tank to kill another tank instead of I don't know using OP AV.
2. Yes my point exactly swarms are OP because they can hit you almost anywhere on the map while an HAV can not
3. Go back to school and learn to read I activated mods as soon as I was hit says it above your comment.
4. It was on ambush, I never call out tanks on ambush unless It is called in to take out another tank (then I recall once destroyed)
5.There was no redline there ambush
6.1 OK this is off the top my head so nothings exact but lets say you have a Proto blaster with over 5 mil in blaster (turret operation, hybrid turret operation, enforcer skill.) you would do lets say 200 damage a shot blaster fires 420 shots a min I think so 7 a second times 15 seconds is 105 shots multiplied by 200 damage is 21,000 damage in 15 seconds.
6.2 This number is only 6,000 over a swarm and I'm a ******* tank with a 12 foot long barrel that rapidly shoots bullets the size of your fist. It may have only taked 12 seconds so that's a few thousand difference that can be eliminated, the swarm dealt about 15,600 so that shortens the gap even further. then you have to factor in the turret over heats as well as slows down as it's about to over heat so that's a few seconds of not firing to cool your heat so that you don't overheat
6.3 So your hand held weapon does more than my tank can in the same amount of time for much less sp, Complex dmg mods cost prob 1mil sp 600 sp for PRO weapon plus 1.5 mil for proficiency so about 3.1 (not infantry so numbers might be slightly off)
in total it costs 500k sp less the enforcer upgrade alone. Your proficiency helps you in your infantry game nut my hybrid turret skill only helps me rail snipe which I don't do.
1. I love this tanks should be the counter to tanks bs argument. Go look up something called a Javelin then tell me infantry weapons shouldn't be powerful enough to take out armor. 2. I don't use swarms, I use a FG, so arguing with me about the OPness of swarms is futile. I can tell you that unless I'm going against a very crappy tanker, the tanker gets away every time. 3. You specifically said Quote: I got hit by proto swarms from behind(no mods running didn't see it coming). I kept going so that I could turn onto the C road and escape you said absolutely nothing about hitting reps. 4. You should have specified in your OP. 5. See 4. 6. You can deal 21,000 damage in 15 seconds, and take 15,000 damage to be destroyed. How much damage do you think a Heavy can deal in 15 seconds with a FG. Lets see...7 shots at 1,738/shot with Prof. 5, about 2,050 with comp damage mods that is 14,355 damage in 15 seconds (if he can live that long) How much damage can a Heavy Dropsuit take? Maximum of about 1500! So in the time it takes a Heavy to kill you once, you could have killed a Heavy 10 times! Lets talk cost. A Proto Heavy Dropsuit with 3 comp plates 2 Comp. Dam. Mods, Adv. SMG, Ishukone FG, and M! nades runs more than 200k x that by 10 deaths = 2 - 3 ISK. How much is one of your tanks? 1. My opinion on what should take out a tank A. a better fitted tank B. A rail tank C. Three or more coordinated AV specialists D. Missile ADS with gunners 2. You say tanks are OP yet you don't use the weapon built to counter armor, IF your advocating for a FG buff then say so 3.My active modules that provide HP or reduction of damage that I had running were 2x carapace armor hardeners (the best ones) and 1 heavy efficient rep (the best rep in the game) to clarify. 4.-5. Sorry I should have specified 6. A tank is hard to maneuver through tight spaces while a heavy can use cover and height to his advantage. If you actually read 6.1-6.3 you would realize my estimate was very generous because you lose thousands of damage due to over heat, range, I got my 200 dmg a shot estimate form PRO blaster base dps around 146 multiplied by 30%(enforcer skill maxed 15% Hybrid turret maxed 5% turret upgrade maxed 10%) is like 191 damage so you lose a few thousand from that as well. My pub fit 800K my PC fit about 1.5 1.6 mil (same fit different blaster) Once I lose one tank I've gone negative You lose one fit you can choose to spawn in free anti armor suits (I killed a 1.5 mill tank with them once) Want to kill a tank here's a tip hit the rear a bonus of 28% damage Your opinion on wht should counter a HAV is ludicrous! 1/3 of a team to counter 1 guy is just insane! It's so unfathomably stupid, I just can't stress how broke that is. I'm not calling for a FG buff. the FG is effective against shield and armor because it is a Hybrid Railgun weapon. I did read what you wrote, but you simply aren't acknowledging my response. You do way way more damage and have way way more survivability that a Heavy. You obviously want HAVs to be unstoppable rolling armageddon machinnes. QFT!
3 divided by 16 is roughly 5 so you are incorrect I want 1/5 of you're team to be able to with skill planning and coordination be able to take me out. You don't think it should take 1/5 of your team to take out a tanker who if left unchallenged could take out your entire team three times over.
Ha you said it was effective therefore you must be the ineffective one.
No I think all tanks should be taken out by three dedicated AV specialists except for the very best tankers and tanks they should take four. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:14:00 -
[157] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Agree 100%
I got into militia tanks for a few days and the only people that took me out were people with proto AV. There weren't even people in my small turrets. I was beasting and feasting, being a pest, beating all the rest.
Tactics, not brute force. Be a Bruce Lee, not a Hulk.
Tactics don't matter when a scout you don't see insta pops you with 3 Lai Dais. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 22:36:00 -
[158] - Quote
Kal Kronos wrote:Well he was driving a god damn madrugar... get on my level in a gunnie, I get 4 kills with the thing and in response I get 2 obs dropped on me and a proto forge gun with packed av rolls up to a hill to pop me because I move slower than an armor tank(turtle).
I'm an armor tanker and shield tanks should be at least 35% faster than armor tanks and there shield boost should be doubled. |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 23:14:00 -
[159] - Quote
i think that one problem is the difference of pubs and PC, in PC everyone should be organized, even tankers, in my opinion tanks will not be as effective solo as it could be with infantry support, but when you punch a hole on the enemy defenses around a capture point with a tank, well yes you may die, but if you win because of that sacrifice it is worth it?, now proto tanks are GODMODE on pubs, they are unkillable even when soloing, death machines, and how do you balance between pubs and PC?, in PC they are destroyed with ease, maybe too easily, but the enemy is organized, that makes the difference, sure the cost of using a tank is way higher than a dropsuit, but it should be that way, its a tank, but with these AV changes it may be better, we will see |
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet
Top Men.
128
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 02:42:00 -
[160] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:**** all of you
It's really not healthy to get so worked up over a video game. Not just in this thread either. I worry for your mental health. Taking a break from the forums might be a good idea. |
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