So if you look at the LLAV that's what Sleepy Zan wants....right?

Honestly not a bad idea if Logis get more base HP....we did have a Callogi epidemic once before

Also the sidearm argument is kind of a weak one....sidearms can be powerful but let's be realistic, it's a 20 meter weapon at most.

Note: I never said I agreed with Sleepy

I think it should be pretty easy to balance dropsuits as a whole, allowing dropsuits to be more specialized and logis to be less one size fits all, while also cuting down on grenade/uplink/nano spam.

1) Logis should get no grenade slot.

2) Assaults should have no equipment slot.

And so on from there.This way there is way less grenade/uplink/nano spam, and logi's become less viable for the frontlines.

I think it should be pretty easy to balance dropsuits as a whole, allowing dropsuits to be more specialized and logis to be less one size fits all, while also cuting down on grenade/uplink/nano spam.

1) Logis should get no grenade slot.

2) Assaults should have no equipment slot.

And so on from there.This way there is way less grenade/uplink/nano spam, and logi's become less viable for the frontlines.

The killer logi died with the original CaLogi stats and bonus. What you see remaining are good FPS players that happen to play logistics. Stop blaming the suit and step your game up if you feel outclassed by a banana man.

Your Logi Suit has more slots than my Officer Balac's Assault Suit

Balanced much smh

The killer logi died with the original CaLogi stats and bonus. What you see remaining are good FPS players that happen to play logistics. Stop blaming the suit and step your game up if you feel outclassed by a banana man.

You know, I was going to abandon this thread, but I just have to respond to you.

You know the Commando suit?

Standard, Commando A-1.

No highs. No lows. No grenades. One equipment. Two lights.

Please never suggest anything about something having no slots. It's awful.

Yea, we already don't have a sidearm, now take our grenade as well.

It's gonna be kinda hard to rez/rep/resupply if I can't even defend myself.

Your Logi Suit has more slots than my Officer Balac's Assault Suit

Balanced much smh

So if you look at the LLAV that's what Sleepy Zan wants....right?

Honestly not a bad idea if Logis get more base HP....we did have a Callogi epidemic once before

Also the sidearm argument is kind of a weak one....sidearms can be powerful but let's be realistic, it's a 20 meter weapon at most.

Note: I never said I agreed with Sleepy

Dont like this - a weapon is a weapon is a weapon plus they are already deprived a sidearm (except Amaar)

A better way (though it cant actually work) would be locking out proficiencies for classes and doing away with damage mods.

Assaults could get proficiency on weapons, Heavies get proficiency on Heavy Weapons, Scouts and Logis get efficacies on certain modules and equipment.

Handheld upgrades or whatever its called unlocks weapon customizations which would be scopes, silencers, stabilizers etc

Just musing.

Edit: And yes I know that means that some classes may get a buff on damage but at least they have to work for it per weapon. You could also dial it back to 2% so it will only be 10% overall but I think 15% is better than facing someone with 3 damage mods and prof Lv 3+

Nerf their damage by 25%. I don't mind that they can tank so much if it is so they won't die so they can help you, but if they are just an improved assault suit then that's just poor game design. However even with a damage nerf they can still bring it back up with damage mods but they just have to sacrifice the slots, I have no problem with that.

A logi is a role, not a lesser soldier, deal with it.

If you think logi can be better at assault than assault, your either.

A- sht
B- not using a suit the matches your playstyle
C- not fitting your suit right
D- not that good a player
E- you just want it easy

Pick one.

He's not complaining he's saying that perhaps the dropsuit is a little too ambidextrous because there is no real limitation preventing the suit from being a different style of a Frontline suit.

For example; The LLAV has tons of health but a gimped turret, dissuading it from being an Attack Chary-Limbus. You don't have to spend CPU/PG on tanking all that much allowing you to expend it on Logistic Modules, thus persuading a Logistics role.

The LLAV has a Turret Limitation that prevents it from being as deadly as your run of the mill Assault built LAV (which are uncommon because sucka fools be foolin').

Now if you compare that set up to dropsuits you have this dastardly difference. You have Logistics being slower and weaker at base but can easily out tank Assaults. It does lose a sidearm but in terms of damage, that does not correlate because you can not use a Light weapon and a sidearm at the same time. The difference may be in versatility and reloads.

So basically the Logistics suit can be built around a Trench-Warfare state of mind, Tank and Damage Mods + Ammo. They can stack all the nanohives they want, damage applications the same as an Assault yet tank further. That's not a support built suit right there but it is well fitted for stand and deliver combat.

What sleepy is getting at is that the Tradeoffs of the logistic suit do not dissuade from going into a Damage oriented role rather than a support role, unlike the LLAV. It's good for a support role but equally good for an niche attack mentality (but when paired with ScR or AR it's combat versatility is not all that subpar to an Assault)

However I am not in agreement that a lone damage nerf to Logis is good.

He's not complaining he's saying that perhaps the dropsuit is a little too ambidextrous because there is no real limitation preventing the suit from being a different style of a Frontline suit.

For example; The LLAV has tons of health but a gimped turret, dissuading it from being an Attack Chary-Limbus. You don't have to spend CPU/PG on tanking all that much allowing you to expend it on Logistic Modules, thus persuading a Logistics role.

The LLAV has a Turret Limitation that prevents it from being as deadly as your run of the mill Assault built LAV (which are uncommon because sucka fools be foolin').

Now if you compare that set up to dropsuits you have this dastardly difference. You have Logistics being slower and weaker at base but can easily out tank Assaults. It does lose a sidearm but in terms of damage, that does not correlate because you can not use a Light weapon and a sidearm at the same time. The difference may be in versatility and reloads.

So basically the Logistics suit can be built around a Trench-Warfare state of mind, Tank and Damage Mods + Ammo. They can stack all the nanohives they want, damage applications the same as an Assault yet tank further. That's not a support built suit right there but it is well fitted for stand and deliver combat.

What sleepy is getting at is that the Tradeoffs of the logistic suit do not dissuade from going into a Damage oriented role rather than a support role, unlike the LLAV. It's good for a support role but equally good for an niche attack mentality (but when paired with ScR or AR it's combat versatility is not all that subpar to an Assault)

However I am not in agreement that a lone damage nerf to Logis is good.

I could see the option of limiting Logis to sidearm class weapons but I think that crimps the concept of developing your own style and role on the battlefield too much. Perhaps incentivizing the use of sidearms through class perks could help...you don't use the sidearm you get less optimization from the fit but it doesn't preclude you from using anything.

So if you look at the LLAV that's what Sleepy Zan wants....right?

Honestly not a bad idea if Logis get more base HP....we did have a Callogi epidemic once before

Also the sidearm argument is kind of a weak one....sidearms can be powerful but let's be realistic, it's a 20 meter weapon at most.

Note: I never said I agreed with Sleepy

And also what about the amarr logi, that's what I use, its supposed to be assault oriented.

Nerf their damage by 25%. I don't mind that they can tank so much if it is so they won't die so they can help you, but if they are just an improved assault suit then that's just poor game design. However even with a damage nerf they can still bring it back up with damage mods but they just have to sacrifice the slots, I have no problem with that.

As an Amarr Logi, I can tell you the sidearm argument is not weak. Sidearms vastly increased killing capabilities. Most people (Assaults) just use MLT ones though, so they think sidearms suck. SMGs are just as good at killing as an Assault Rifle if you actually spend skill points on them.

That is 1/4 of the logistic suits. And you are right it is a Combat Oriented Suit. The people who are using the G's, M's, and C's in terms of damage application; in a perfect world should be using the amarr suit, that is what it is there for. But they look at it and say "If I don't care for a sidearm but still want to play assault then these other suits would fit me better because they will take my Light Weapon damage and tanking abilities to a higher level than if I was to be 'gimped' with a sidearm"

I personally think sidearms are great but Light Weapons are in fact a step up.

I'd support Logis having sidearms only if assault lost the equipment slot, even my amarr logi having sidearm only is fine for me.

If you want Logis to be more defined in their role so should assault, you must know how's fking annoying it is to have an assault start repping someone when your stood there in a bright yellow suit lol.

That said, we are comparing the assault role and logi role and there are some other areas of the battlefield that would be effected. For example, Snipers need to be pretty self sufficient as they are normally a long way away from support. Carrying hives, uplink, and proximity remotes to give them some security is a pretty logical and practical idea.

A logi is a role, not a lesser soldier, deal with it.

If you think logi can be better at assault than assault, your either.

A- sht
B- not using a suit the matches your playstyle
C- not fitting your suit right
D- not that good a player
E- you just want it easy

Pick one.

I cannot believe some of the posts i've been reading. Side arms only? Logis making better assaults?... no just no. I don't deny that many have experience and truly have thought out their arguments but these arguments forget to consider many other perspectives and facts about suit limitations.

Assault classes as a whole benefit from greater base stats overall - other than the CPU/PG inherent to the logis.
We are speaking to speed, hp (shields & armor), stamina, smaller hitboxes, sidearms, etc. Meaning that all skill increases that affect such values will result in greater benefits than a logi would be able to have. This ensures that at before we even begin building a suit the Assault class is a better foundation. (this was covered in a thread long ago) Putting the same modules on a logi that one puts on an assault will always end up with a better assault - there is no competition with the base stats.

A logistics suit can out perform an Assault in some focused instances - building it specifically for one purpose or another, but so can the Assault, but make them equip the same modules and the logi will lose. So, taking different fits and comparing them of course any suit can be comparatively better than another, but never can they be on even ground. The equipment is what sets them apart. And even then the equipment is available to all. There is not logi specific equipment that no other can access and neither are their weapons that only assaults can access. The only question is what will you give to get what you want.

Most logis go for defense and sacrifice a great weapon for better equipment - that is not always the case, but it is the logibro way. Assaults could too... but it is counterproductive. They go for the better weapon usually. When a logi goes for a better weapon he will sacrifice equipment, and only have his modules protecting him because every part of him will be less than an Assaults basic birthright. His modules may let him excel in one or two areas but if an assault does the same it will come down to gun game. If he goes for shields his speed, armor and stamina still suck. If he goes for speed it is based of his basic beginning values and takes double the amount it would take for an assault to get the same benefit.

We all pay a price. Learn to specialize. That some people were able to learn that what they wanted was best accomplished with a logi only gives credit to their research, and when last I looked at the end of match boards I have only seen logis lead in WP every now and then. Kills still favor the assaults, heavys, and tankers.... So, why again are you complaining OP?

Only noobs talk this level of crap, what's your excuse?

Dont like this - a weapon is a weapon is a weapon plus they are already deprived a sidearm (except Amaar)

A better way (though it cant actually work) would be locking out proficiencies for classes and doing away with damage mods.

Assaults could get proficiency on weapons, Heavies get proficiency on Heavy Weapons, Scouts and Logis get efficacies on certain modules and equipment.

Handheld upgrades or whatever its called unlocks weapon customizations which would be scopes, silencers, stabilizers etc

Just musing.

Edit: And yes I know that means that some classes may get a buff on damage but at least they have to work for it per weapon. You could also dial it back to 2% so it will only be 10% overall but I think 15% is better than facing someone with 3 damage mods and prof Lv 3+

It bothers me!

Just want to point out, it's a logistic suit aka a support suit, not an assault suit. So why is it designed like an assault suit.

Too defend against other assaults while repping and reviving others?

Nerf their damage by 25%. I don't mind that they can tank so much if it is so they won't die so they can help you, but if they are just an improved assault suit then that's just poor game design. However even with a damage nerf they can still bring it back up with damage mods but they just have to sacrifice the slots, I have no problem with that.

Less High/Low slots seems better.

This is why I propose sidearm only and seen as you have been here longer than I have you will appreciate an ishukone SMG with prof 5 or a scr pistol and soonGäó another SMG and pistol are coming.

Dont like this - a weapon is a weapon is a weapon plus they are already deprived a sidearm (except Amaar)

A better way (though it cant actually work) would be locking out proficiencies for classes and doing away with damage mods.

Assaults could get proficiency on weapons, Heavies get proficiency on Heavy Weapons, Scouts and Logis get efficacies on certain modules and equipment.

Handheld upgrades or whatever its called unlocks weapon customizations which would be scopes, silencers, stabilizers etc

Just musing.

Edit: And yes I know that means that some classes may get a buff on damage but at least they have to work for it per weapon. You could also dial it back to 2% so it will only be 10% overall but I think 15% is better than facing someone with 3 damage mods and prof Lv 3+

I steamrolled most players back on Chromosone with a Balac's MRN-30 SMG, keeping sidearm only won't solve the issue and what will also happen to Amarr logi?

I steamrolled most players back on Chromosone with a Balac's MRN-30 SMG, keeping sidearm only won't solve the issue and what will also happen to Amarr logi?

Nerf their damage by 25%. I don't mind that they can tank so much if it is so they won't die so they can help you, but if they are just an improved assault suit then that's just poor game design. However even with a damage nerf they can still bring it back up with damage mods but they just have to sacrifice the slots, I have no problem with that.

Are you cray cray? Must be cray cray. That is WAY too much, you've just gimped the Logi class sir.

Nothing needs to be touched, you Assaults are faster than all the Logi's, that is a HUGE +.

Are you cray cray? Must be cray cray. That is WAY too much, you've just gimped the Logi class sir.

Nothing needs to be touched, you Assaults are faster than all the Logi's, that is a HUGE +.

Sidearm idea works for me

Oh STFU already.

So does that mean you're not okay with the damage reduction on LLV's and LDS's?

Do you really wan every logi to run around with Ishukone ASMGs?

Do you really wan every logi to run around with Ishukone ASMGs?

Do you really wan every logi to run around with Ishukone ASMGs?

@Bojo (Multiple quotes kills my phone)

Then it doesn't really fix anything, especially since most sidearms are better than their light (and even heavy) counterparts anyway. The issue here is that people are looking for a fix to an issue that isn't an issue. Even if a logi ignores their equipment to fit as much tank as possible, they're nothing more than an extra tanky, more expensive, slower assault without a sidearm.

This whole mess started with the CaLogi, which in essence was OP. It had the ability to fill just about every role on the field with its racial bonus, superior slot layout, and insane CPU/PG pool. There was still a significant armor/shield imbalance at the time, which didn't help either. The CaLogi has long since been nerfed (arguably too hard) but the community still carries on about these killer banana men and most of which can't even explain why outside of the getting bested in a fight.

This issue of a non issue carries in because of mental gymnastics by players tha can't admit someone might be better at them at an FPS. I die to assaults all the time but I don't come on the forums crying that their suit is OP because the clothes don't make the man.

...........yes

Nope, I'd like to see a damage debuff and something to make Damage mods harder to fit onto a Logi...

Um NO!

It's my suit and I should be able to do what I want with it!

I don't see what the problem with my logistics is.

Low Base HP
No Sidearm

We already made a sacrifice. Do you know how weak weapons are without proficency?

A logi can do both assualt and medic? SO F***ING WHAT?

STOP QQing, grab a gun, and kill things!

Just so you know, I use SMGs in my logi already over ARs. I don't do it all the time because I don't have to. Be careful if what you wish for.

Um NO!

It's my suit and I should be able to do what I want with it!

I don't see what the problem with my logistics is.

Low Base HP
No Sidearm

We already made a sacrifice. Do you know how weak weapons are without proficency?

A logi can do both assualt and medic? SO F***ING WHAT?

STOP QQing, grab a gun, and kill things!