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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
   |
Posted - 2013.10.24 17:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
So if you look at the LLAV that's what Sleepy Zan wants....right?
Honestly not a bad idea if Logis get more base HP....we did have a Callogi epidemic once before
Also the sidearm argument is kind of a weak one....sidearms can be powerful but let's be realistic, it's a 20 meter weapon at most.
Note: I never said I agreed with Sleepy |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:A logi is a role, not a lesser soldier, deal with it.
If you think logi can be better at assault than assault, your either.
A- sht
B- not using a suit the matches your playstyle
C- not fitting your suit right
D- not that good a player
E- you just want it easy
Pick one.
He's not complaining he's saying that perhaps the dropsuit is a little too ambidextrous because there is no real limitation preventing the suit from being a different style of a Frontline suit.
For example; The LLAV has tons of health but a gimped turret, dissuading it from being an Attack Chary-Limbus. You don't have to spend CPU/PG on tanking all that much allowing you to expend it on Logistic Modules, thus persuading a Logistics role.
The LLAV has a Turret Limitation that prevents it from being as deadly as your run of the mill Assault built LAV (which are uncommon because sucka fools be foolin').
Now if you compare that set up to dropsuits you have this dastardly difference. You have Logistics being slower and weaker at base but can easily out tank Assaults. It does lose a sidearm but in terms of damage, that does not correlate because you can not use a Light weapon and a sidearm at the same time. The difference may be in versatility and reloads.
So basically the Logistics suit can be built around a Trench-Warfare state of mind, Tank and Damage Mods + Ammo. They can stack all the nanohives they want, damage applications the same as an Assault yet tank further. That's not a support built suit right there but it is well fitted for stand and deliver combat.
What sleepy is getting at is that the Tradeoffs of the logistic suit do not dissuade from going into a Damage oriented role rather than a support role, unlike the LLAV. It's good for a support role but equally good for an niche attack mentality (but when paired with ScR or AR it's combat versatility is not all that subpar to an Assault)
However I am not in agreement that a lone damage nerf to Logis is good. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
I could see the option of limiting Logis to sidearm class weapons but I think that crimps the concept of developing your own style and role on the battlefield too much. Perhaps incentivizing the use of sidearms through class perks could help...you don't use the sidearm you get less optimization from the fit but it doesn't preclude you from using anything.
That's a better idea of what I am more flowing with.
People think that reducing a Logi to a sidearm would be some super nerf from hell but really it just promotes the Logistic role which is what they should be participating in. A sidearm is deadly but has it's ranges. Sidearms are sort of a Man on Man weapon, good for 1 vs 1. An AR on the other hand has the range and power to deal with multiple people in varying, they are quick to kill allowing you to move on from target to target. The sidearms kind of require a commitment to the kill, wounding allowing retreat isn't so much of an option at <20 meters, when you get that close for an engagement you become....engaged.
However poking someone at 60 meters requires no commitment, it's ok to let them be and prioritize.
So the Sidearm would basically force the Logistics suit into Support first, combat second. When things get too close for comfort the Logi would still be able to hold their ground it's just they would be much less versatile in range of combat, and since they have gimped speed/stamina closing those gaps is more up to the enemy than the Logi thus creating a balance of Logistic Bite.
People get really touchy over Medium Frames, a lot like to think that they are fine where they are. But really that is a Mediocentric train of thought, where the medium frames should take prevalence over anything, where they can't be touched. They don't want to change for the worse for the better of the game merely to their advantage. To the True Logis if you get a damage nerf in one form or the other; I hope you recognize that it would in no way gimp the logistics abilities merely the assault abilities. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:
And also what about the amarr logi, that's what I use, its supposed to be assault oriented.
That is 1/4 of the logistic suits. And you are right it is a Combat Oriented Suit. The people who are using the G's, M's, and C's in terms of damage application; in a perfect world should be using the amarr suit, that is what it is there for. But they look at it and say "If I don't care for a sidearm but still want to play assault then these other suits would fit me better because they will take my Light Weapon damage and tanking abilities to a higher level than if I was to be 'gimped' with a sidearm"
I personally think sidearms are great but Light Weapons are in fact a step up. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:
As an Amarr Logi, I can tell you the sidearm argument is not weak. Sidearms vastly increased killing capabilities. Most people (Assaults) just use MLT ones though, so they think sidearms suck. SMGs are just as good at killing as an Assault Rifle if you actually spend skill points on them.
Preaching to the choir I love my pistols
But I can not deny that ARs will forever outrange sidearms as well as almost every other light weapon except the shotgun
Tis' better to apply damage at 70 meters than having to run 50 meters before being able to apply damage.
It's just that if you are a scout that's not really an issue. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2244
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:
I'd support Logis having sidearms only if assault lost the equipment slot, even my amarr logi having sidearm only is fine for me.
If you want Logis to be more defined in their role so should assault, you must know how's fking annoying it is to have an assault start repping someone when your stood there in a bright yellow suit lol.
No argument here
Signed,
A Most Dubious Scout |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2246
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
That said, we are comparing the assault role and logi role and there are some other areas of the battlefield that would be effected. For example, Snipers need to be pretty self sufficient as they are normally a long way away from support. Carrying hives, uplink, and proximity remotes to give them some security is a pretty logical and practical idea.
Are you kidding? Scout suits were the original snipers and such a scenario would really buff the scout-snipers by contrast. It's like a double win. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2248
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Medical Crash wrote:
Are you cray cray? Must be cray cray. That is WAY too much, you've just gimped the Logi class sir.
Nothing needs to be touched, you Assaults are faster than all the Logi's, that is a HUGE +.
said Medical Crash to a scout
"Yes" Sleepy Zan retorted "a huge Plus.. " |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2248
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Sidearm idea works for me  Do you really wan every logi to run around with Ishukone ASMGs? 
I realized that there is one key issue with the Sidearm only and that is that there aren't very many sidearms right now, it would have to wait for other SMG's and Pistols to come out.
But I would fear more the Logi with a Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol |
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