Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

Aim Assist applies to HMG as well, so the grounds are even

Aim Assist applies to HMG as well, so the grounds are even

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

Whatever dude its you guys who set the PC meta you have no one to blame but yourselves.

I'm going to go with the following..

1) You're wrong
2) Heavies are in a way better place, and FAR more competitive now than pre 1.3
3) I'm absolutely destroying people with far superior gear in CQC and (now, excitingly enough) mid range. Even in my basic, BPO suit.
4) Heavies have far superior HP, especially with the armor buffs. That means in the current meta of 'Stand and Deliver', heavies can take more punishment and win the gun fights far easier.
5) The new terrain - which has far more cover and routes for heavies to close the gap to CQC and Mid Range - allows heavies to dictate range and fight on preferable terms far better than before.

Heavies are far more competitive now. I've seen drastic increases in not only my effectiveness, but KD:R(As if that crap mattered). If you're giving it up, good luck. But to me, it sounds like you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

EDIT: Oh, and I cant forget..
6) They removed our turn speed restrictions and reduced armor plate movement penalties! That's *HUGE*

Iv found heavys a fair bigger threat since the patch I think some playstyle and fitting adjustments and heavys will be a danger :-)

dafuq does meta have to do with a class balance?

Please stay on topic.

I've found them a bigger target personally

Bigger heads, bigger hitboxes + AA and my ability to jump and strafe.

I mean if people want to continue playing heavies, cool. The moment they step out of a pub game and face a good organized team, is the moment people see how weak the heavy is.

Honestly, I just run at heavies now. If he's alone, he's dead. And the funny thing is, i'm no beast assault player.

Does it matter. I don't use Amarrian dropsuits because they are the best dropsuits, they clearly aren't. I use them because I like them. If you set the PC meta to not using heavies because they are not optimal then that is your problem. Heavies still do well all over the place.

-- snip a bunch of crazy talk --

ITT: Heavy who couldn't cut it feels the need to tell the whole community he's going LOL MEDIUM+AR K GUYZ?

Whatever dude its you guys who set the PC meta you have no one to blame but yourselves.

Aim Assist applies to HMG as well, so the grounds are even

The heavy Mentality is amazing.

Heavy players received a triple buff, and guess what? They're still not happy

- Armour Got Buffed
-Strafe speed Decreased
-HMG reduced recoil

The heavy Mentality is amazing.

Heavy players received a triple buff, and guess what? They're still not happy

- Armour Got Buffed
-Strafe speed Decreased
-HMG reduced recoil

Do you also wanna be able to Fly and shoot lasers from your eyes

- Armour got buffed - so did damage application... especially against a heavies larger hit box
- Strafe speed Decreased - enemies find it easier hitting you whilst running/jumping around
- HMG recoil hasnt really changed (especially when skilled up), hit ditection has, but more for other weapons due to the HMG's spread

Either way you look at it the heavy suit received a solid buff, yet it is still not enough. You heavey players assume you can just run and gun, all day everyday.

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

Either way you look at it the heavy suit received a solid buff, yet it is still not enough. You heavey players assume you can just run and gun, all day everyday.

The heavy Mentality is amazing.

Heavy players received a triple buff, and guess what? They're still not happy

- Armour Got Buffed
-Strafe speed Decreased
-HMG reduced recoil

Do you also wanna be able to Fly and shoot lasers from your eyes

I've been cutting it against the best teams in DUST for a long time. Out of curiousity what teams have you played against in PC since 1.4?

All classes got armor buff

None. PC showcases nothing. It's just a bunch of tryhards running around playing pre-arranged fights. Really no different than matchmaking. I realised that about a month after PC came out.

If you've deluded yourself into thinking that PC matters, I take pity on you :(

Either way you look at it the heavy suit received a solid buff, yet it is still not enough. You heavey players assume you can just run and gun, all day everyday.

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

I'll still use my HMG on close maps. As for everything else you are right. BTW heavys might leave BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE POOP(for nice words) TO USE! We have 1 suit and 2 guns.

When can I have a new suit + gun's? SOOMtm? If its not SOON I really will stop playing this game. My boosters finally ran out and im happy with 18mill SP. I dont have anything to spec into now

I'll still use my HMG on close maps. As for everything else you are right. BTW heavys might leave BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE POOP(for nice words) TO USE! We have 1 suit and 2 guns.

When can I have a new suit + gun's? SOOMtm? If its not SOON I really will stop playing this game. My boosters finally ran out and im happy with 18mill SP. I dont have anything to spec into now

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

I'm going to go with the following..

1) You're wrong
2) Heavies are in a way better place, and FAR more competitive now than pre 1.3
3) I'm absolutely destroying people with far superior gear in CQC and (now, excitingly enough) mid range. Even in my basic, BPO suit.
4) Heavies have far superior HP, especially with the armor buffs. That means in the current meta of 'Stand and Deliver', heavies can take more punishment and win the gun fights far easier.
5) The new terrain - which has far more cover and routes for heavies to close the gap to CQC and Mid Range - allows heavies to dictate range and fight on preferable terms far better than before.

Heavies are far more competitive now. I've seen drastic increases in not only my effectiveness, but KD:R(As if that crap mattered). If you're giving it up, good luck. But to me, it sounds like you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

EDIT: Oh, and I cant forget..
6) They removed our turn speed restrictions and reduced armor plate movement penalties! That's *HUGE*

I agree with everything in post but then i saw your tags so i decided im going to troll you for being in EoN and using this thread as 'meta' (somehow) and then im going to troll you for being a 'tryhard' at this game cause you like to play in a competitive environment instead of play pubs 24/7.

Lol i love this community. What a joke.

Ok I am back! I do love Heavy/HMG cry baby threads

Firstly, I am so sorry you can't play your heavy in PC like its a Pub, but guess what? I can't either in my Assault Suit. I have a completely different fit selection in PC then Pubs. Furthermore, my play-style completely changes too. A heavy is a fortification defensive role aka a bullet sponge. You tank the damage and the Slayer helps with the kill.

Too many people assume that heavy suit should always win 1v1's engagements. They're not designed for it

I might be crazy, but isn't this more of an AR issue rather than just your fat suit? In relation to an mmo your fat suit is supposed to be the TANK, assault is supposed to be DPS. When an AR can melt through your fat suit in 2 seconds, what do you think it's like for everyone with half your hp?

Im not a heavy and I see this coming as well.

The HMG is so heavyily out classed by alot of weapons

I might be crazy, but isn't this more of an AR issue rather than just your fat suit? In relation to an mmo your fat suit is supposed to be the TANK, assault is supposed to be DPS. When an AR can melt through your fat suit in 2 seconds, what do you think it's like for everyone with half your hp?

If CCP would buff the HMG's range to what it should be, with the medium to medium-long range range other games give it, the HMG might just be a good weapon. Then it would actually be a suppressive weapon and not a CQC weapon. No game I have ever heard of has put the HMG in the same CQC class as a shotgun, pistol, or SMG.

I dont play hevy but are there more tigher/accurate more range HMG varients that drop dps so your not spraying bullets in the wind? assult hmg?burst?

I said I was done playing heavy. The class is useless. There's no "fortification of defensive" anymore. 1.3 I could agree to this, and I didn't have much complaints about the heavy besides the fact that turn speeds suck balls.

Heavies can no longer tank anything but another HMG. The length of time it takes for a heavy to down another heavy, it takes an AR user half that time to do it... or less

So a heavy needs help to kill people in PC is what you're saying... while an assault player doesn't. So why would anyone use a heavy class? To be cannon fodder?

Meh, I rather kill people.

I think you're in for a rude awakening when you go assault in PC

Meh less heavies to worry about

I'm going to go with the following..

1) You're wrong
2) Heavies are in a way better place, and FAR more competitive now than pre 1.3
3) I'm absolutely destroying people with far superior gear in CQC and (now, excitingly enough) mid range. Even in my basic, BPO suit.
4) Heavies have far superior HP, especially with the armor buffs. That means in the current meta of 'Stand and Deliver', heavies can take more punishment and win the gun fights far easier.
5) The new terrain - which has far more cover and routes for heavies to close the gap to CQC and Mid Range - allows heavies to dictate range and fight on preferable terms far better than before.

Heavies are far more competitive now. I've seen drastic increases in not only my effectiveness, but KD:R(As if that crap mattered). If you're giving it up, good luck. But to me, it sounds like you're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

EDIT: Oh, and I cant forget..
6) They removed our turn speed restrictions and reduced armor plate movement penalties! That's *HUGE*

The heavies in my corp are loving 1.4 a lot. They say their bullets are land ing a lot better and moving a bit quicker. And with these new maps in pc heavys will be vital. Very cqc, especially when theres letters underground... Engaging heavys is all positioning, i have been getting slaughtered by heavies cqc and locked down from getting letters because of them. Which isnt a bad thing, thats what theyre for. I think a lot of heavies try to assault and that always ends badly for them.

No range buff needed.

CCP simply needs to correct our bullet dispersion so our gun can actually work as intended.

OP = agreement on all accounts.

I've also stopped playing my Heavy. Using the HMG is just gambling on whether or not the enemy is using an AR, and the Forge Gun became stale now that people are starting to properly fit tanks (yea, i admit it. Its more fun for me popping unsuspecting low fit tankers then spending 10 minutes chasing down the single properly fitted tank to "hopefully" kill. Damn you Ted Nugget!)

Hopefully CCP squeezes the Heavy Laser into one of the patches in a few months.

But then again, this is just experience in pubs from going up against squads who's corporations are actively participating in PC, and not actual PC matches, so my opinion can be taken with grain of salt.

But If they aren't around i tend to do quite well against noobs. Doesn't make it fun though (minus the tanks, I'm sorry! but with my frustrated experience against good tankers throughout my dust career, i do enjoy blowing up a noobs shiny toy every now and then ^_^)

No. All the HMG's have the same bullet spread as far as I can tell.

The longer range HMG shoots peas at enemies. The dmg is so low lol

Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.

Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.

ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.

The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.

I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.

Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.

At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.

Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.

FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing.

I've found them a bigger target personally

Bigger heads, bigger hitboxes + AA and my ability to jump and strafe.

I mean if people want to continue playing heavies, cool. The moment they step out of a pub game and face a good organized team, is the moment people see how weak the heavy is.

Honestly, I just run at heavies now. If he's alone, he's dead. And the funny thing is, i'm no beast assault player.

Ran a MLT heavy with a LvL 1 basic HMG, killed tons and tons of AR users in CQC with the HMG.

best ways to use heavy,

1: have logi bro watching your back
2: city fights!
3: use LAV to get you between city fights.

Aim Assist applies to HMG as well, so the grounds are even

Hi Lance - this is SoTa. And we don't agree. I'm constantly doing better then most slayers in PC still. And that's with 13ear and Regynum on my side.

HMG rox harder then ever in city side.

There is no problem with my HMG, there must be something wrong with yours.

Sure i get taken down by a duvolle now and then, but only when im flanked, outnumbered or shot in back. Never one on one. Even with my standard HMG.

same. my HMG works fine. went 36/5 on a tight quarters map. have to choose when to use it cause it's not good on all maps. my only issue with it is it needs a little more range.