D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
998
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Posted - 2013.09.13 07:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
nicholas73 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Not because anything got buffed or nerfed. Simply because now people can aim better, and hit detection is allot better especially for AR's.
Heavy HMG was fine before 1.4, and in pubs it will still be fine...hell, even in PC a good heavy can still be decent....but an AR player will do better with less effort. Because of how the AA works now, ARs can out DPS HMGs in a CQC fight when the AR players strafe. The DPS of HMG is calculated with the thought of every bullet hitting the target. Bullet spread decreases the DPS drastically, and also when a heavy tries to strafe, the accuracy penalty increases. So in order for a heavy to try and land shots,to increase his potential DPS, he needs to be a sitting duck.
ARs on the other hand, from what I've seen while playing with them, I can dance around, jump, strafe and I'm still hitting my target with dead on accuracy, making the AR's DPS insane.
The HMG aim assist doesn't work as good as it does on ARs...and tbh, I don't know if there's any because I don't feel a difference.
I'm finished with being a heavy HMG player. All I have is a basic Proto Gallente and I've been doing pretty good with it. When heavy players realize they're getting outgunned by ARs more often, and they realize ARs > HMGs you'll start to see less, and less heavies, while the number of AR users go up.
Already I'm seeing less MDs. And tbh, as a heavy they would kill me no problem. As a Gallente AR user I eat them up.
At this point, I don't have the heart to be making thread after thread on the matter. I'm having fun with the AR. But I know this unbalance is bad for the game. I hope CCP reads this, and take a look at heavies and scouts again. ARs are eating everything up on the battlefield with little effort. Is it fun? Hell yes! It's not fun for the people that are using something else though.
Note: I'm not calling for a buff / nerf for anything. I'm not asking that AA be removed. I'm asking that CCP take a look at heavies and scouts. The introduction to AA and improved hit detection really shows how weak these classes are against ARs.
FoTM is finally going back to the Assault Rifle, with Laser Rifles following in 2nd position (haven't seen allot yet, but the number of users are increasing. Aim Assist applies to HMG as well, so the grounds are even
AA isn't very strong in close range this is were the HMG does most of its work..
AA doesn't decrease disperion at long range, this is where the HMG is out classed.
so, AA doesn't effect the HMG at all. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
998
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 07:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gigatron Prime wrote:YOu all incorrectly assume all heavys use HMG.
the suit its self is still gimped.
observe my statements in the OP. im not asking you agree with me. but the MATH there applies to this discussion.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1295525#post1295525
now, for a specific reference to AR vs HMG observe the following arithmetic. :
Heavy with HMG vs medium frame with AR:
- a medium frames shields and armor recover faster than a heavies
- the AR out ranges the HMG and does its optimal much further
- a medium frame is much faster than a heavy, so disengaging and reengaging mitigate the heavies high ehp.
- AR user normally come in packs because eveyone uses one.
consider the following:
1+The HMG's higher dispersion, and lower range make it ineffectual verses ARs at longer rangers. At close range however, the medium frame can move backwards faster than the heavy can run forward futher increasing distance.
2+since, the heavies sheidls and Armor repair at a slower rate and have a longer delay between recover "pica-boo"tactics using pot shots with the AR are effective at handling HMGs even in close range.
3+since medium frames can disengage combat at anytime when their shields get low while fighting a heavy and recharge them quickly the heavy is always at a disadvantage.
4+Finally, many suits can shield and armor tank to the point where they have just as much shield and armor as a heavy. If the person is shield tanking that directly affects the HMGs dps vs AR dps.
think of your average heavy with 500 shields and 600armor vs a milita AR doing 467 dps. Now lets compare this to a medium frame with 500 shields and 200 armor (not very expensive):
500 / (467 *1.1) = .97 seconds
600 / (467 *.9) = 1.42 seconds
total TTK = 2.39 seconds
500 / (660 * .65 *.8) = 1.45 seconds
200 / (660 * .65 * 1.2) = .4 seconds
total TTK = 1.85 seconds
So, as you would assume based on the numbers If an AR user were to stand directly infront of my HMG without moving then yeah, a STD HMG verse a milita AR, standard HMG wins. however, note the difference in TTK is only .5 seconds.
if the medium frame starts strafing which actually distorts the hit detection by taking advantage of frame rate issues for 1/2 a second alone the milita AR can kill a heavy.
consider the following:
- remember a proto heavy with max sheild and armor mods with max skills in armor and shield upgrades, shield extenders and armor plates can have is 1591 ehp (movement speed is that of a large rail turret.)
- A milita AR with a dps of 467 can kill that proto heavy in 3.4 seconds. thats 37 shots. not even a whole clip.
- now on the competetive level a duvolle assault rifle with proficiency and two damage mods can do a dps of 690.5.
1591/690.5 = 2.3 seconds.
- the ARs optimal damage stays like this upto 50 meters. then it has a slight fall of in damage out to 66m. then it has a larger drop up to 75 meters, before its max at 88m.
now consider that only of these suits can have upwards of 600+shields and 300+ armor and still carry a duvolle like this and you can see the heavy is clearly outmatched.
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