yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him.

his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile.

Soma - armor

6 proto swarms - 18k+ dmg

You are full of ****

1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks?
Yes, if adv/proto AV is on the field i do expect to lose it in my basic tank and mods, it maybe able to survive if i can run the other way and have everything active to try and tank the incoming damage, if its AV nades its instant and next to unavoidalbe due to joe nameth thrwoing, swarms bend around corners still lock on through cover and fire invisible missiles so its hard to survive them, FG/PL require aiming thus not used as much

2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks?
Vehicles are a specilization, if we cant use them every game then whats the point in playing?


3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV?
Vehicles cost way more ISK and SP than AV ever will at this moment in time, AV can have weapons which deal more damage than any turret in the game for a fraction of the price and for a fraction of the SP, i can spend 2mil SP into proto swarms and fit it on a skinweave suit and kill all the vehicles in the game

4. Before 1.4 were things balanced?
lolno, basic vehicles vs proto AV, also super OP swarms getting more buffs and still broken as ****

As long as the Team size is fixed and a Tank can be used solo it should always be possible to solo a tank of the same or lower tier. Otherwise tanks would become gamebreaking regardless of the game mode. But it should not ne possible to solo a tank by grenades, AV nades should be primarily used for LAVs.

your math assumes I had 3 proto damage mods fitted, all skills at max and all missiles actually hit instead of curshing into the ground because of poor pathing or spinning around for unknown reason. biased opinion is biased.


u mad?

Concerning point 3 now you have Ammo AND overheat turret damage will be buffed but that'll only benifit vechile to vechile warefare!

We dont know that

We have ammo but my HAV cant climb up stairs

Why did you make this thread?

Tanks and AV are getting a complete rework from the ground up. The way tanks are in the game now will not be the way tanks are in the game for 1.5.

How about waiting until they release more information before making yet *another* "Tanks are broken AV is broken fix it plz" thread.

Why did you make this thread?

Tanks and AV are getting a complete rework from the ground up. The way tanks are in the game now will not be the way tanks are in the game for 1.5.

How about waiting until they release more information before making yet *another* "Tanks are broken AV is broken fix it plz" thread.

yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him.

his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile.

we do know that, they will be more powerful as result, thats what it says in the sticky vechiles in 1.5 and beyond.

Don't believe what the stickies tell you. They also claim that the "improved" dropship camera will make it easier to pilot. See 1.4 patch notes.

When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match.

yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him.

his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile.

u mad?

LOL no

You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV?

This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group.

I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me.

That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf?

And some people have said they like, there a whole thread for it. Besides what the problem with a forge gun having more power, it only takes one rail slug to snuff em?

Yet you can sit there and complain about the proto till the mcc s come home, if a team fields a whole squads worth of av it should take you down, or at least make you soil your pants.

Tanks need more defined roles, not just murdering entire squads with ease!

But if that other team doesn't bring enough AV, why shouldn't I walk all over them? Can you answer that? Why should CCP balance the game over modes and matchmaking that don't affect the overall grand scheme of things?

LOL no

You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV?

This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group.

I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me.

That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf?

Depends on your definition of not enough av, not enough 3-4 you should be able to out tank them sure, 5-6 you need to be moving around, making retreats and tactical advances, at 8+ then you should be on the back foot. In the current sizes it should scale like this for adv gear, once we get 64+ then prehaps a little more can be accepted!

As for how difficult to shoot with a rail turret, no more than hitting infantry with a forge gun! The game should never be a case of walking over them, it just makes you sound ignorant, which I why im looking forward to 1.5, tanks will hopefully be made into assets powerful ones at that but you wont be able to be ai, av, aa and everything inbetween!

I use a tank every match, I think that question was asked. I skilled almost completely into vehicles and so I consider that my role on the battlefield. Quite frankly its not all doom and gloom when you get around 8-9 million in skills. I never use the expensive tanks on pub matches.

(I have a scout suit so if needed I scurry around the battlefield avoiding fire and hacking.)

I will go along with the fact that SOME matches they have no AV and I stomp around feeling invincible. Other matches I see advanced A/V and I am very timid making quick runs, waiting for all my cool downs.

A good tanker knows his exits and his angles, he uses them to maximize his lifespan. What I do not like is CCP using huge towers where infantry can sit and get 360 degree of the entire battlefield, but that has nothing to do with balancing that is a simply flaw in the map building.

Happy Hunting!

Are you serious?

A FG has more damage and bigger splash than my railgun turret, its easy with a FG i can do it with militia FG

Also that game 8+ ppl with milita AV that was militaia/basic, if anything like adv/proto comes on the field its ****** i would love to scale it up but we have no proto tanks

Well im speaking from my experience the smaller reticle was most helpful, well miltia should require 50% more than at adv, while proto requires 50% less, I would rate current tanks as adv, a tier under needs considered!

The tanks we have now are basic

Enforcers by meta level are advanced by they are more like advanced militia tank

Nope

I just now know if i see you in game you are a bad player who needs 6+ proto volleys to kill a militia tank

I use a tank every match, I think that question was asked. I skilled almost completely into vehicles and so I consider that my role on the battlefield. Quite frankly its not all doom and gloom when you get around 8-9 million in skills. I never use the expensive tanks on pub matches.

(I have a scout suit so if needed I scurry around the battlefield avoiding fire and hacking.)

I will go along with the fact that SOME matches they have no AV and I stomp around feeling invincible. Other matches I see advanced A/V and I am very timid making quick runs, waiting for all my cool downs.

A good tanker knows his exits and his angles, he uses them to maximize his lifespan. What I do not like is CCP using huge towers where infantry can sit and get 360 degree of the entire battlefield, but that has nothing to do with balancing that is a simply flaw in the map building.

Happy Hunting!

[
Also that game 8+ ppl with milita AV that was militaia/basic, if anything like adv/proto comes on the field its ****** i would love to scale it up but we have no proto tanks

I'm glad to see that even tankers feel that they need to change play styles if the situation calls for it. I try running scout too sometimes when it makes sense. I think what's hard for me to grasp is the mindset of a player who is specialized into vehicles but then thinks that just because their tank is big it means it's appropriate for every situation. That was more or less what I'm getting at with some of the questions. I'm not criticizing anyone, I just have a lot more freedom with altering my roll on foot than someone who uses a tank I think.

It's 70,000isk suits vs 500,000 ISK tanks.

Minimum to kill with vs minimum to survive with...

If the min survival tank cost was about 200,000 it would be acceptable cost ratios...

I'm going to have to disagree. That's barely more than a prototype suit or two poorly fit proto suits. I don't really know much about driving a tank but I've seen scoreboards and if someone can't kill it's ISK worth of suits with a tank then they're probably doing it wrong.

Indeed, its not that therw aren't options its just some are much more powerful overall than othrs. For examp, e the blaster turret has a high dps, high accuracy, does plenty of damage to tanks as well as infantry, theres no need to use the other 2!!

Turrets need more defined roles, anti infantry, anti tank, or anti air, at the base layer, one turret cant do it all!!

It's 70,000isk suits vs 500,000 ISK tanks.

Minimum to kill with vs minimum to survive with...

If the min survival tank cost was about 200,000 it would be acceptable cost ratios...

I concur, tanks should be priced on there surviability, about 5 million!! EACH!!

That sounds interesting actually because I've heard someone in my corp mention something like that. I've always just seen either sniping tanks or blasters. It would be cool to see more variation so that it wasn't the same experience every game.

I'm going to have to disagree. That's barely more than a prototype suit or two poorly fit proto suits. I don't really know much about driving a tank but I've seen scoreboards and if someone can't kill it's ISK worth of suits with a tank then they're probably doing it wrong.

It isn't our fault. We have 3 turrets, and 1 sucks, so what are we supposed to do? It isn't like we got 14 guns to use.......

your butthurt comments all over the forum only insult your own intelligence. but please go on and amuse us even more.

a maximized SP wise soma fit for max tank can absorb 5 proto swarms without exploding against someone without damage mods. not to mentioned if it is spider tanked where another vehicle can step in to prevent damage. I let you figure out yourself how to do it. all 3 damage mods would change is reduce the amount of shoots to kill it from 6 to 4.

It isn't our fault. We have 3 turrets, and 1 sucks, so what are we supposed to do? It isn't like we got 14 guns to use.......

The people who can't get killed has no AV or very low level AV going after him. PROTO swarm or any kind of FG above STD will make HAV's, and vehicles in general disappear.

Im not saying its your fault but there needs to be more variations and more negatives, for there positives, blasters need terrible range, to become close quarters infantry based, rails need to be mre lomg range infantry support, however ther should infantry centric, and vechile centric versions, missle turrets need to have high direct, low splash, and low direct high splash, we need lasers, we need more choice but more negatives TOGETHER!!

your butthurt comments all over the forum only insult your own intelligence. but please go on and amuse us even more.

a maximized SP wise soma fit for max tank can absorb 5 proto swarms without exploding against someone without damage mods. not to mentioned if it is spider tanked where another vehicle can step in to prevent damage. I let you figure out yourself how to do it. all 3 damage mods would change is reduce the amount of shoots to kill it from 6 to 4.

They're functionally the equivalent of Standard Assault suits vs. Medium Frame. They're a Standard "Specialised" model instead of the basic version.

At least i dont have to make stuff up to try and prove a point but in your case you make it up and fail with the point anyways

If a soma was that good then madrugars wouldnt be used and all we would see is somas but suprisingly i dont see somas in PC matches it always maddys

Could you tell me why that is the case? No you cant because you dont know what you are talking about

At least i dont have to make stuff up to try and prove a point but in your case you make it up and fail with the point anyways

If a soma was that good then madrugars wouldnt be used and all we would see is somas but suprisingly i dont see somas in PC matches it always maddys

Could you tell me why that is the case? No you cant because you dont know what you are talking about

I apologize, I probably should've been more clear. I mean that it would be cool to see CCP come out with different turrets that allowed for more variation in tank strategies. I don't blame the tankers for using the turrets the way they currently are.

another biased butthurt post without any valid points from you, but I didnt expected something else than a reply of no value.

we have several madrugar drivers in dust uni that have fits able to absorb 6 proto swarms with 3 dmg mods and survive. so some guys in a training corp can do it but you dont? well bad news for you, if there is anyone that has no clue than it is obviously only you.

Great discussion here guys/gals!

I almost never loose tanks in a match unless I do something stupid and allow AV troopers to corner me (Or I have been drinking). Its a problem with the maps not exactly the damage being produced, in regards to tanks. If you put a spire that infantry can shoot 90% of the map then guess what, the tanks can only operate in 10% of the map. If you want a spire create it in the neutral area in the center and have it have angles on half of the map, this would create a vehicle bottle neck and add to the fun factor.

CCP until recently has the idea that all battles are to take place in a valley with mountains overlooking the middle. The last place an important installation would be is in the center of a valley surrounded by high places(Or deep underground but that feature is impossible due to tech limitations). You build important structures at the top of a mountain.


Here are my feelings on the current turrets and the complaints from my turret gunners.

Some of the problems with the small turrets are as follows(The gunners complaint not mine, mind you I run all proto turrets when I have dedicated gunners):
Small Turrets:
Missile - shooting WAY off mark randomly, making it way frustrating.
Railguns - gunners ALWAYS complaining they only get 3 shots then overheats.
Blaster - I do not do enough damage to infantry.

Large Turrets (Also only talking proto level):
Missle - I can see a guy 20 Meters in front of me shoot at him 5 times and not hit him. I can also shoot a guy halfway across the map and randomly one shot him. Too risky and seems too random, it needs to be tightened up to be worth it.
Railgun - Anti - Vehicle and Anti-Infantry, all at a distance and accurate. No real complaints here.
Blaster - I shoot infantry jumping around and do nothing to them, this weapon needs some splash damage added. If it was given even a small boost it would make it worth it.

To be fair the only thing I complain about is rooftop camping where the map has basically been totally geared for infantry dominance. The new maps do not appear to suffer this problem.

another biased butthurt post without any valid points from you

Just keep making stuff up because its easier for you

I would love to see these tanks survive 6 proto swarms but its always talk and hearsay but not from the drivers always from infantry saying how they have seen it or they were the swarm user and it survived

I have yet to see a vid of a madrugar surviving 6+ proto swarms and still keep on tanking and mowing down infantry

From my tanking experience its called running away, i cannot be still and take 6 proto 3dmg mod unless i am out of range or the missiles actually hit cover and not me so it looks like the swarms can lock on and keep firing but nothing ever hits

what is the purpose of you repeating the same nonsense over and over?

surviving 6 proto hits and tanking it to proceed mowing down infantry are two entirely different things. it is possible to survive 6 proto swarms, that is the point. you are not supposed to be invincible but I guess you are one of those scrubs that think they should be able to solo everything in a tank and then wonder why the AV nades of a whole squad you tried to camp are hurting you. btw the time to kill a high durability fit is almost 20s of continous uninterrupted shooting with swarms. what have you or your team done in that time frame? the answer to this question is the cause of your butthurt.

Stop throwing insults at each other like 2 year olds, its degrading and only serves to diminish your intelligence!! Sometimes tanks can be op, sometimes they can be up, end of that discussion!!

How do you think tanks can be made fair for enemy infantry, and dont mean nerf this mcnuggets out of everything!! How can a tank be a tank without steam rolling the opposite side?

stuff

is that how discussion with you look like? someone bring facts and arguments and you answer with several unrelated biased QQ?

you not only failed at reading and answering accordingly, you also managed to write several answers with biased QQ and zero arguments in a row. I guess your ignorance and tunnelvision must be a blessing

Yes your turrets definatly need improvements large and small alike, however like you said rail turretts at the moment can be both infantry and vechile centric, which I find a problem, this game is based on a rock, paper, sciccors mentality and should continue to be just so, there should be variations of your rail turret that make it infantry centric or vechile centric, and then a middle ground that is ok at both but not as good as a specilised variation. The missle turrets show ideally how it should work, some have mkre radius and splash damge which is clearly suited infantry, while others have less spread and more direct damage which clearly anti vechile, all turrets need this kind of definition! ,

The only time a basic tank is OP is when ther is next to no AV on the enemy team which is ther fault and not mine

When its UP is when anything over adv pops up because we do not have adv/proto mods/hulls

Also swarms/av nades are the biggest crutches in the game and require no aim while still have massive faults with the weapon, invisible missiles/locking through cover/able to look up not lose lock so you can fire missiles when not looking at the target/tracking or the target is borked since the missiles track where the target used to be and not where it is/homing nades

FG is pretty balanced as it is, requires some aim, more than the swarms and AV will ever need which is 0

Plasma cannon did get a buff in proj speed in 1.4 i have seen them about more and they do hit harder when they hit, requires the most aim so rarely used

AV mines are never used, espc when homing AV nades deal more damage and never miss so why bother swapping to mines

Give use proto hull/mods to compete with proto AV and we have a level playing field

Pub matches should never be used to balance a weapon, its random, teams are random, forget about it

Balance in PC where it counts, basic vehicles vs proto AV makes PC a right ******* annoyance

I sense that tank users expect to be invincible and chase infantry down and then get annoyed when they toss AV grenades at them.

You must be joking calling swarms and AVs the biggest crutches in Dust.

Swarm launchers are primary weapons. They cannot attack infantry and they are completely worthless for anything aside from destroying vehicles. Why would CCP make them also difficult to aim and operate doing the only thing they're supposed to do? Aside from a SMG or scrambler pistol the player is completely defenseless to the enemies while they try to move into view of the tank. This is dangerous enough and almost suicidal so yeah they should be able to shoot/lock with some wiggle room around corners.

AV grenades are also worthless against infantry and can't be thrown very far. If someone drives a tank through infantry and doesn't expect to be challenged by something then they're just an idiot. I sense that tank users expect to be invincible and chase infantry down and then get annoyed when they toss AV grenades at them. Play smarter if you're being killed by AV grenades.

Just imagine how vulnerable the SL/AV grenade users are while tankers sit cozy in a metal box with 5-10k hp. The ones chasing tanks with AV grenades deserve medals.