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Tanks vs. AV: A constructive discussion.

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Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 6	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:04:00 - [1] - Quote The purpose of this thread is to hopefully present arguments for or against various nerfs or buffs of either vehicles (focus on tanks) or AV. I'm hoping to bring information forward to people who are not die hard tankers or AV users (such as myself). Let me start with my own opinion and then present a few questions to get things started... I have advanced AV grenades basic explosives and nothing else AV wise. The most I've specced into vehicles is probably about 500k into dropships. That being said I am sympathetic to both sides but I admit I am more sympathetic to the infantry. When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match. It is for this reason that I think that AV needs to be strong. If one person can rule a match with a tank then they deserve all of the attention they get in doing so. The risk involved with calling in a killing machine with 6000+ hp must be high otherwise this game could turn into Tanks 514. I accept that I don't know enough about tanks/vehicles to claim either side needs to be changed from it's current state so please participate in posting if you have any expertise on either side. Some particular questions to get people thinking could be... 1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks? 2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks? 3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV? 4. Before 1.4 were things balanced? Just some ideas. Please feel free to inform but keep it constructive please. Thanks.
Lorhak Gannarsein Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 261	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:18:00 - [2] - Quote inb4flame. But seriously, as a tanker, I want to be able to use my damn fittings without knowing that a slight misstep will mean an hour of grinding to pay it off. 1: I expect to lose a tank every time I drop one in. When I don't it is a pleasant surprise. This way I don't rage quit out of frustration. 2: Yes. That's like saying 'No HMG users, you can't use your gun every math even though you've got prof 5 and reload 5 and ammo 5 etc'. (Example because no MLT HMG) 3: idgaf. I object to my tank being so expensive, not their weapons being cheap. If their weapons were pricy, I'd still be running a loss. 4: No. Arguably Chromosome was the most balanced build between tanks and AV.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 412	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:43:00 - [3] - Quote yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him. his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3567	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:47:00 - [4] - Quote 1. When running a good tank, I can reasonably expect that, unless I screw up, it can tank incoming fire long enough to let me run. If the enemy team has good AV, this means I will be doing very little damage, or I'll be forced to do something stupid (and die) in order to get any real benefit from my investment. 2. Not all of us do that, but it should be reasonable to expect a tanker to do so. Just like it's reasonable to expect a Scout player to spend almost all of almost every match in a Scout suit. 3. Is there something to say? Yes. Is it relevant to the issue of balance? Not really. SP cost to fit a high-level tank is more than you need to fit a similar level of AV. 4. Nope. And I don't think 1.5 is going to fix everything either. I'm pretty sure 2.0 will have been and gone before balance happens. This from someone who runs both tanks and AV fairly regularly, and has been around since the closed beta days.
AAGMUNDR Reliable Overwatch Inc. 13	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:51:00 - [5] - Quote The actual issue is the fact that they have to balance for what almost equates to two different games. Making AV stronger in pub matches might be a good idea because often there is a lack of cohesive team work. This leads to the situation you described where one or two people go toe to toe with a tank. On the other hand, making AV strong enough to solo a tank with grenades in PC, where teamwork is prevelant, would make tanks irrelevant. Just my two cents.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 221	Posted - 2013.09.04 12:54:00 - [6] - Quote On RL tanks can be one shotted by another tank and if not one shotted to death by AV infantry weapons then at least put out of commission. I expect a tank to be stopped by Infantry AV if it getscclose to infantry. I don't want tanks one shoting tanks because it's a game and tanks need some staying power on the field for the sake of fun. I'd like to see tanks be able to be damaged and stop working before they can be actually destoyed. Your turret would work but you can't move due to track damage etc. Also, bigger maps with more room for vehicle combat with their own objectives for vehicles to hold for extra points would be nice. The swarm launcher needs a nerf. I'm for keeping the damage and reduce its effective range. I just really hope CCP is moving toward that map size featured in their first promotion of the game with room for massive vehicle combat without forcing infantry to run too far. The problem with games like this is that you have to deploy the appropriate things for the situation. Being a game however; and, a game that has skill requirements to use things means players want to use what they trained for whether the situation is right for that tactic or not. Hence, you'll see tank players sitting on the redline if the conditions aren't apprpriate for their tank to do anything constructive. So, there needs to be an opportunity appropriate for vehicles to be deployed or this will continue to be a game of vanilla assaults just running around capping stuff to get an orbital. I'm so sick of the mentality that this is an infantry only game. Why are there vehicles at all if that is the case? It is a ground warfare game. Atm though it is only a win fast and quick with cheap tactics to get points game. Any changes that can promote flavor and variety with emphasis on the combat playing out rather than power playing, gear grinding and reluctance to deploy vehicles would be welcome.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 111	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:09:00 - [7] - Quote Its important vechiles be given a role to fill on the battlefield, even if its more than one, at the moment, tanks are artillery, point defense, 1 man army, and dambuster, and av and aa all rolled into one, ammo will go some way to aleviating this but we need more turret variations, more vechiles and bettermdefined modules, I know a lot people say armour tanks are terrible, and I know a lot people say sheild tanks are terrible, but if the enemy deploys threemtanks with blasters and top tier mods, unless your team has a squads worth of av you've had it! Its important that a tank needs infantry support at infantry ranged assults, and that tanks and other vechiles have two rocks to their sciccors, co-ordinated av, and av centri vechiles! While one guy with a swarm shouldn't be able to decimate tanks, tanks shouldnt be able to decimate entire teams at a time, they also need more uses like being completly immune to small arms fire, there actually 80%, so they can be used as movable cover, and not just an impervious moving death machine 1.4 and 5 will make things worse before they get better, thats how it works, butt just because your gonna have a hard time doesnt mean you wont be valuable assets in the future!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1205	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:15:00 - [8] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him. his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile. Soma - armor 6 proto swarms - 18k+ dmg Max soma tank i have seen is 8k no rep It wouldnt have survived a clip let alone 2 You are full of ****
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1205	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:24:00 - [9] - Quote 1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks? Yes, if adv/proto AV is on the field i do expect to lose it in my basic tank and mods, it maybe able to survive if i can run the other way and have everything active to try and tank the incoming damage, if its AV nades its instant and next to unavoidalbe due to joe nameth thrwoing, swarms bend around corners still lock on through cover and fire invisible missiles so its hard to survive them, FG/PL require aiming thus not used as much 2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks? Vehicles are a specilization, if we cant use them every game then whats the point in playing? 3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV? Vehicles cost way more ISK and SP than AV ever will at this moment in time, AV can have weapons which deal more damage than any turret in the game for a fraction of the price and for a fraction of the SP, i can spend 2mil SP into proto swarms and fit it on a skinweave suit and kill all the vehicles in the game 4. Before 1.4 were things balanced? lolno, basic vehicles vs proto AV, also super OP swarms getting more buffs and still broken as ****
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 413	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:25:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soma - armor 6 proto swarms - 18k+ dmg your math assumes I had 3 proto damage mods fitted, all skills at max and all missiles actually hit instead of curshing into the ground because of poor pathing or spinning around for unknown reason. biased opinion is biased. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You are full of **** u mad?

Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 111	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:29:00 - [11] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks? Yes, if adv/proto AV is on the field i do expect to lose it in my basic tank and mods, it maybe able to survive if i can run the other way and have everything active to try and tank the incoming damage, if its AV nades its instant and next to unavoidalbe due to joe nameth thrwoing, swarms bend around corners still lock on through cover and fire invisible missiles so its hard to survive them, FG/PL require aiming thus not used as much 2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks? Vehicles are a specilization, if we cant use them every game then whats the point in playing? 3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV? Vehicles cost way more ISK and SP than AV ever will at this moment in time, AV can have weapons which deal more damage than any turret in the game for a fraction of the price and for a fraction of the SP, i can spend 2mil SP into proto swarms and fit it on a skinweave suit and kill all the vehicles in the game 4. Before 1.4 were things balanced? lolno, basic vehicles vs proto AV, also super OP swarms getting more buffs and still broken as **** Concerning point 3 now you have Ammo AND overheat turret damage will be buffed but that'll only benifit vechile to vechile warefare!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:43:00 - [12] - Quote As long as the Team size is fixed and a Tank can be used solo it should always be possible to solo a tank of the same or lower tier. Otherwise tanks would become gamebreaking regardless of the game mode. But it should not ne possible to solo a tank by grenades, AV nades should be primarily used for LAVs.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 111	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:48:00 - [13] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: As long as the Team size is fixed and a Tank can be used solo it should always be possible to solo a tank of the same or lower tier. Otherwise tanks would become gamebreaking regardless of the game mode. But it should not ne possible to solo a tank by grenades, AV nades should be primarily used for LAVs. True but a team of 4 naders shiuld be capable of doing so, nade spam measures need to be put in place to allow the use of nades, but not as a form of artillery!!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1206	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:50:00 - [14] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Soma - armor 6 proto swarms - 18k+ dmg your math assumes I had 3 proto damage mods fitted, all skills at max and all missiles actually hit instead of curshing into the ground because of poor pathing or spinning around for unknown reason. biased opinion is biased. Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You are full of **** u mad? Nope I just now know if i see you in game you are a bad player who needs 6+ proto volleys to kill a militia tank
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1206	Posted - 2013.09.04 13:51:00 - [15] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks? Yes, if adv/proto AV is on the field i do expect to lose it in my basic tank and mods, it maybe able to survive if i can run the other way and have everything active to try and tank the incoming damage, if its AV nades its instant and next to unavoidalbe due to joe nameth thrwoing, swarms bend around corners still lock on through cover and fire invisible missiles so its hard to survive them, FG/PL require aiming thus not used as much 2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks? Vehicles are a specilization, if we cant use them every game then whats the point in playing? 3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV? Vehicles cost way more ISK and SP than AV ever will at this moment in time, AV can have weapons which deal more damage than any turret in the game for a fraction of the price and for a fraction of the SP, i can spend 2mil SP into proto swarms and fit it on a skinweave suit and kill all the vehicles in the game 4. Before 1.4 were things balanced? lolno, basic vehicles vs proto AV, also super OP swarms getting more buffs and still broken as **** Concerning point 3 now you have Ammo AND overheat turret damage will be buffed but that'll only benifit vechile to vechile warefare! We dont know that We have ammo but my HAV cant climb up stairs
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 112	Posted - 2013.09.04 14:01:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: 1. Is it expected to lose/destroy a tank in a given match or is it simply intended to be matched by other tanks? Yes, if adv/proto AV is on the field i do expect to lose it in my basic tank and mods, it maybe able to survive if i can run the other way and have everything active to try and tank the incoming damage, if its AV nades its instant and next to unavoidalbe due to joe nameth thrwoing, swarms bend around corners still lock on through cover and fire invisible missiles so its hard to survive them, FG/PL require aiming thus not used as much 2. Are tank users counting on being able to use tanks every game for the entire game since their SP are primarily distributed into tanks? Vehicles are a specilization, if we cant use them every game then whats the point in playing? 3. Is there something to say about the amount of SP/ISK required to run tanks vs. AV? Vehicles cost way more ISK and SP than AV ever will at this moment in time, AV can have weapons which deal more damage than any turret in the game for a fraction of the price and for a fraction of the SP, i can spend 2mil SP into proto swarms and fit it on a skinweave suit and kill all the vehicles in the game 4. Before 1.4 were things balanced? lolno, basic vehicles vs proto AV, also super OP swarms getting more buffs and still broken as **** Concerning point 3 now you have Ammo AND overheat turret damage will be buffed but that'll only benifit vechile to vechile warefare! We dont know that We have ammo but my HAV cant climb up stairs True but my heavy cant move at 70 mph, we do know that, they will be more powerful as result, thats what it says in the sticky vechiles in 1.5 and beyond. However they will be buffed in such a way they fit specific roles, not just made more awsome, if they did that then there missing the point!
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 360	Posted - 2013.09.04 14:04:00 - [17] - Quote Why did you make this thread? Tanks and AV are getting a complete rework from the ground up. The way tanks are in the game now will not be the way tanks are in the game for 1.5. How about waiting until they release more information before making yet another "Tanks are broken AV is broken fix it plz" thread.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 116	Posted - 2013.09.04 14:14:00 - [18] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Why did you make this thread? Tanks and AV are getting a complete rework from the ground up. The way tanks are in the game now will not be the way tanks are in the game for 1.5. How about waiting until they release more information before making yet another "Tanks are broken AV is broken fix it plz" thread. Calm yourself, the guy made a thread concerning peoples thoughts, this is designed to get you thinking about how you want the changes, he just trying to have a conversation!
Toby Flenderson research lab The Superpowers 8	Posted - 2013.09.04 14:50:00 - [19] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Why did you make this thread? Tanks and AV are getting a complete rework from the ground up. The way tanks are in the game now will not be the way tanks are in the game for 1.5. How about waiting until they release more information before making yet another "Tanks are broken AV is broken fix it plz" thread. Thanks for the constructive input. I explained why I made this thread: To inform those who are not dedicated Tank/AV users. I never asked CCP to fix anything or even complained so I don't understand why you think this is that sort of thread. I even stated that I did not know enough to claim one is OP/broken. I understand things are going to change and I hope it balances things to the satisfaction of those affected. I don't see why knowing changes are coming would discourage the community from trying to understand what the fuss is about with vehicles if they don't use them personally. If you have something to say about the subject then I'd love to hear it but otherwise I'd appreciate it if we kept this thread as purely informative as possible. So far I've already got some good insight and I'd like to keep it coming.
Annabandak Mercery Knights Of Ender 23	Posted - 2013.09.04 14:56:00 - [20] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him. his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile. this , im a terrible tank driver myself i always get killed cause i dont look good and rammed a building or so. 1.4 makes this very cool i think . i mean 6 shot hits , by number 2 he had to start thinking wtf i need to run away(drive) even in real world it is not that hard for infantry wel covered and with the right weopons to kill a tank. 1.4 is good(thats comming froma terrible tank driver)

Mortedeamor The Black Masquerade 196	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:04:00 - [21] - Quote i have both proto av prof V madrugar and gunlogi reasonably skilled no more than 8 mill sp into them tanks currently have no proto equivalence no tank can truly tank full proto av long enough to survive any kind of skilled av bombardment regardless of the users skills and knowledge they're gear just cant take it. i have been running tank and av for well over a year and i seriously doubt 1.5 will bring balance i hope so but it is not likely. hopefully wolfman can do what blam could not.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3582	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:05:00 - [22] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: we do know that, they will be more powerful as result, thats what it says in the sticky vechiles in 1.5 and beyond. Don't believe what the stickies tell you. They also claim that the "improved" dropship camera will make it easier to pilot. See 1.4 patch notes.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 122	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:11:00 - [23] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: we do know that, they will be more powerful as result, thats what it says in the sticky vechiles in 1.5 and beyond. Don't believe what the stickies tell you. They also claim that the "improved" dropship camera will make it easier to pilot. See 1.4 patch notes. And some people have said they like, there a whole thread for it. Besides what the problem with a forge gun having more power, it only takes one rail slug to snuff em?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 595	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:21:00 - [24] - Quote Toby Flenderson wrote: When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match. LOL no You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV? This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group. I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me. That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 595	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:25:00 - [25] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: yesterday I met a Soma right after 1.4 patch and it took me 6 proto swarm shots to solo him. his fit was obviously great but his driving was still terrible, he was standing still all day while I only jumped out of cover to fire my missile. I call BS
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 596	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:32:00 - [26] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: You are full of **** u mad? You're basically admitting you're lying with that.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:35:00 - [27] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match. LOL no You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV? This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group. I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me. That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf? Yet you can sit there and complain about the proto till the mcc s come home, if a team fields a whole squads worth of av it should take you down, or at least make you soil your pants. Tanks need more defined roles, not just murdering entire squads with ease!
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 596	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:35:00 - [28] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: we do know that, they will be more powerful as result, thats what it says in the sticky vechiles in 1.5 and beyond. Don't believe what the stickies tell you. They also claim that the "improved" dropship camera will make it easier to pilot. See 1.4 patch notes. And some people have said they like, there a whole thread for it. Besides what the problem with a forge gun having more power, it only takes one rail slug to snuff em? Do you know how difficult it is to kill infantry with a railgun?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 596	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:36:00 - [29] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match. LOL no You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV? This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group. I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me. That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf? Yet you can sit there and complain about the proto till the mcc s come home, if a team fields a whole squads worth of av it should take you down, or at least make you soil your pants. Tanks need more defined roles, not just murdering entire squads with ease! But if that other team doesn't bring enough AV, why shouldn't I walk all over them? Can you answer that? Why should CCP balance the game over modes and matchmaking that don't affect the overall grand scheme of things?
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 126	Posted - 2013.09.04 15:48:00 - [30] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: When I see a tank I realize that it has the potential to control the rest of a match if gone unchallenged. I make it my mission to try and destroy it even if it means taking 5+ deaths. My militia SL and packed AV grenades are simply not enough to hurt a tank. Unless I have the rest of my squad to back me up (none of which have any more firepower than I do), then the tank mows down my team for the whole match. LOL no You're admitting to bringing weak AV to the table. Why should your MLT swarm launcher and ADV AV grenades be any more powerful because out of at least 4 people, you bring weak AV to the table, and I have my Gunnlogi? Why should I get nerfed for your decision to not have much AV? This is what pisses me off about the community, and CCP's tendencies to listen to a specific group. I've gone 41-1 in a Gunnlogi getting spider tanked. The other team literally did not have better than MLT / STD AV. We're talking about 8 or so guys launching those weak swarms at me because not a single other person on their team had anything better than that. Now, they were launching explosive weaponry at a shield tank. They obviously won't have the explosive damage bonus on that. I had an armor tank behind me with a shield transporter constantly boosting my shield too. As such, the enemy team had to blow up that tank first before they could destroy me. That being said, why should your admittedly weak AV get buffed at all? In that case, everything CCP put into the game was working as intended. Explosive weaponry was shrugged off, and I was getting remote reps. Why should I in effect take another nerf? Yet you can sit there and complain about the proto till the mcc s come home, if a team fields a whole squads worth of av it should take you down, or at least make you soil your pants. Tanks need more defined roles, not just murdering entire squads with ease! But if that other team doesn't bring enough AV, why shouldn't I walk all over them? Can you answer that? Why should CCP balance the game over modes and matchmaking that don't affect the overall grand scheme of things? Depends on your definition of not enough av, not enough 3-4 you should be able to out tank them sure, 5-6 you need to be moving around, making retreats and tactical advances, at 8+ then you should be on the back foot. In the current sizes it should scale like this for adv gear, once we get 64+ then prehaps a little more can be accepted! As for how difficult to shoot with a rail turret, no more than hitting infantry with a forge gun! The game should never be a case of walking over them, it just makes you sound ignorant, which I why im looking forward to 1.5, tanks will hopefully be made into assets powerful ones at that but you wont be able to be ai, av, aa and everything inbetween!



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