Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3567
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Posted - 2013.09.04 12:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. When running a good tank, I can reasonably expect that, unless I screw up, it can tank incoming fire long enough to let me run. If the enemy team has good AV, this means I will be doing very little damage, or I'll be forced to do something stupid (and die) in order to get any real benefit from my investment.
2. Not all of us do that, but it should be reasonable to expect a tanker to do so. Just like it's reasonable to expect a Scout player to spend almost all of almost every match in a Scout suit.
3. Is there something to say? Yes. Is it relevant to the issue of balance? Not really. SP cost to fit a high-level tank is more than you need to fit a similar level of AV.
4. Nope. And I don't think 1.5 is going to fix everything either. I'm pretty sure 2.0 will have been and gone before balance happens.
This from someone who runs both tanks and AV fairly regularly, and has been around since the closed beta days. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3597
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Posted - 2013.09.04 16:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you have a Standard tank with Advanced mods crammed onto it, you probably have Standard weapons as well in order to actually fit your tank.
In that case, it's reasonable to expect an even fight against a solo AV player running Standard gear.
If you have a Gunnlogi, a Standard Swarm Launcher fitting with AV Ggenades is going to struggle a bit. If you have a Madrugar, that same AV fitting will be dangerous to get too close to, and has a decent chance of killing you if you make a mistake, while also being capable of avoiding/surviving your attacks at the kind of range you're forced to hold back at. If the tank moves in, the AV grenades let the AV guy pour out an even bigger damage hit than they have at range, making it a very risky move for the tank, even though it increases their chances of landing their own killshot on the AV guy.
If a Plasma Cannon starts shooting at a Gunnlogi, and is backed up with Flux Grenades, that tank is probably going to pop all its actives and run. If you can stay outside Plasma range, and if you can land a hit with your horribly-inaccurate weapons at that range, you can turn things back to your favour, but shield tanks don't like being that close to weapons that powerful. If the tank was a Madrugar instead, losing its shields isn't such a big deal, and it could probably turn and gun down the attacker while repping, and not have to worry too much.
This is assuming the tank driver is alone in the tank with no gunners, because that shifts the balance in favour of the tank's numerical superiority. Also, if a Gunnlogi rushes at a group of infantry on a hill, because "there's only one Swarm guy", and gets obliterated by Flux and/or AV Grenade spam, that doesn't prove that AV is overpowered. It proves that the Gunnlogi made a tactical error.
Unfortunately, what I'm comparing here is Standard AV vs. Standard vehicles. And yes, a good player can tip the balance - but that goes both ways. I can often use the AV Starter Fit (all Militia, and with only Swarms, no AV Grenades) to keep a Madrugar, and sometimes even a badly-fitted (or badly-driven) Gunnlogi from having any real involvement in a battle. As you go up the tiers, you'll notice that there are no HAVs above Standard, but that AV gets increased effectiveness.
At the moment, it's reasonable to expect AV players to solo tanks. This ISN'T because AV is more powerful than it should be, or because HAVs are underpowered. If anything, the current Standard HAV is slightly better than it should be. But it's priced like an Advanced model should be, and even though it's better than Standard, it's not good enough for Advanced, and certainly well short of being a Proto level item.
Also, while ISK balancing shouldn't be relied on as a primary balance mechanic, you do have to consider that an AV guy saying "I'm going to kill this tank if I have to die 5 times" is often committing less than half the ISK value of the tank they plan to kill. The other factors are more important, but that doesn't negate ISK as a factor in how vehicles are balanced.
If you can reasonably say that a half-million ISK tank will win 4/5 solo tanker vs. solo AV battles against a 100,000 ISK suit, then the ISK balance is about where it should be. If you can reasonably say that a 200,000 ISK suit has better than 50% chance of soloing the million+ ISK tank, that's looking like it's a little off. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3600
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Well im speaking from my experience the smaller reticle was most helpful, well miltia should require 50% more than at adv, while proto requires 50% less, I would rate current tanks as adv, a tier under needs considered!
The tanks we have now are basic Enforcers by meta level are advanced by they are more like advanced militia tank
They're functionally the equivalent of Standard Assault suits vs. Medium Frame. They're a Standard "Specialised" model instead of the basic version. |