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New HMG skill is pointless

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8532	Posted - 2013.09.16 19:47:00 - [61] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /me goes back to using Burst HMGs. I haven't tried them yet, are they any good? Don't miss. They're lethal and will outgun most HMGers but they're not squad slayers. I haven't been able to try them since the reset (however when I get home today I'll have the sufficient SP to do so) but last I checked they did have a significant amount of recoil to the point the last tail end of the burst was all headshots.
Remm Duchax The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2013.09.16 20:55:00 - [62] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: /me goes back to using Burst HMGs. Hahahah, I sometimes use the burst, it works like a shotgun sometimes, but I find it to be difficult to use on fast moving targets up-close and the way it overheats and eats your ammo that easily is a bit unsettling.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.16 21:41:00 - [63] - Quote RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost.
Remm Duchax The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2013.09.16 22:28:00 - [64] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost. Not if a dropship buddy let's you drop 5 metres behind a full squad!
RA Drahcir Psygod9 209	Posted - 2013.09.16 23:04:00 - [65] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost. "I can hide, I can not shoot, I can make sure I have a babysitter." I, I, I, I. What the HMG should do is the discussion. Not how you sit camp with a logi, just to get naded and mowed over. When ARs are sprinting around with higher DPS and self sustaining suits, hell yeah I do not want to worry about overheating. When 6 proto CalAssaults try to take me and my logibro out. Of course I can choose to hide, and hope they go around or kill us quickly like you say you do. But I like to start killing them when they are close enough, and when they see me, they close in and attack. By the time I kill two/three of them, I attempt to break contact for a second to cool down, but by then they have cooked up some nades and are bunnyhopping around me. I need to keep shooting. You can play like a girl, I want to kill them all. I just liked being able to shoot 374 rounds before overheating, now what is it? 290ish? Those 80 rounds are the difference between a squad of dead ARs and a dead HMG and logibro.
MassiveNine Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 211	Posted - 2013.09.16 23:52:00 - [66] - Quote Burst is great 1v1 and sometimes you can get away with 2v1 but if they are moving it can be hard to land most of the stream. I have prototype SMG so what I normally do is switch to it right before I overheat then unload the SMG and then switch back to HMG if needed. Works pretty good.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 138	Posted - 2013.09.17 00:47:00 - [67] - Quote The Burst is like a drug, when you start using it you cant stop.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.18 18:14:00 - [68] - Quote RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost. "I can hide, I can not shoot, I can make sure I have a babysitter." I, I, I, I. What the HMG should do is the discussion. Not how you sit camp with a logi, just to get naded and mowed over. When ARs are sprinting around with higher DPS and self sustaining suits, hell yeah I do not want to worry about overheating. When 6 proto CalAssaults try to take me and my logibro out. Of course I can choose to hide, and hope they go around or kill us quickly like you say you do. But I like to start killing them when they are close enough, and when they see me, they close in and attack. By the time I kill two/three of them, I attempt to break contact for a second to cool down, but by then they have cooked up some nades and are bunnyhopping around me. I need to keep shooting. You can play like a girl, I want to kill them all. I just liked being able to shoot 374 rounds before overheating, now what is it? 290ish? Those 80 rounds are the difference between a squad of dead ARs and a dead HMG and logibro. So you want CCP to make you invincible and require no effort to play on your part. Got ya.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 354	Posted - 2013.09.18 18:27:00 - [69] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost. "I can hide, I can not shoot, I can make sure I have a babysitter." I, I, I, I. What the HMG should do is the discussion. Not how you sit camp with a logi, just to get naded and mowed over. When ARs are sprinting around with higher DPS and self sustaining suits, hell yeah I do not want to worry about overheating. When 6 proto CalAssaults try to take me and my logibro out. Of course I can choose to hide, and hope they go around or kill us quickly like you say you do. But I like to start killing them when they are close enough, and when they see me, they close in and attack. By the time I kill two/three of them, I attempt to break contact for a second to cool down, but by then they have cooked up some nades and are bunnyhopping around me. I need to keep shooting. You can play like a girl, I want to kill them all. I just liked being able to shoot 374 rounds before overheating, now what is it? 290ish? Those 80 rounds are the difference between a squad of dead ARs and a dead HMG and logibro. So you want CCP to make you invincible and require no effort to play on your part. Got ya. Because 80 more bullets makes us invincible
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:36:00 - [70] - Quote You want to be able to stand in the open and take out 6 proto Cal assaults on your own, so I guess you think so.

Canaan Knute Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 129	Posted - 2013.09.18 23:45:00 - [71] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: ...in the open... He didn't say anything about being in the open. A little reading goes a long way.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.19 00:08:00 - [72] - Quote Canaan Knute wrote: Ion Crush wrote: ...in the open... He didn't say anything about being in the open. In the open just means not trying to use cover not necessarily standing in a field or something. Taking cover for a moment to cool down or rep is to "play like a girl".
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8619	Posted - 2013.09.19 01:14:00 - [73] - Quote well found out I don't have enough for a burst... so trying assault. There is definite kick there too. Still useless overall at lvl 2 skill.
RA Drahcir Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 218	Posted - 2013.09.19 07:15:00 - [74] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: Canaan Knute wrote: Ion Crush wrote: ...in the open... He didn't say anything about being in the open. In the open just means not trying to use cover not necessarily standing in a field or something. Taking cover for a moment to cool down or rep is to "play like a girl". You do not have the luxury of taking it easy when you are holding an objective and have ARs rushing you. I do not mind dying because I get shot up by them. I do mind dying if I have to disengage because I am about to overheat and die getting shot in the back as I fail to break contact. I do mind dying because I overheat trying to stand my ground. They should make it so that the HMG cools down and builds up heat a lot slower. I cannot speak for the burst because I fell in love with the standard type after getting my hands on the boundless; I am accustomed to regular HMGs now. I haven't used the burst variant since I was first building up my HMG skills.
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 85	Posted - 2013.09.19 11:52:00 - [75] - Quote Burst overheats much faster than the standard, if you don't kill someone in 2-3 burst your pretty much screwed. When you do get them with a full burst they'll be wrecked if its a CQC. Not as good of crowd control as the standard, but can be devastating in a 1v1. When your alone probably not. That is why I always squad up, but you don't need to take cover to let your heat cool down. Letting go of the trigger for even half a second while you switch to a new target will allow for enough cool down. Sweeping from target to target while firing will also waste ammo unless the enemies are literally stacked one after another which doesn't happen as often as I wish. An interesting idea I had for sentinels maybe is a max incoming damage receivable. Like you can't take more than x damage per second from small arms fire up to a set amount of damage. Like maybe 50% of total health or something. This could make the heavy feel more tanky without a HP buff and make for an interesting mechanic. Call it "Hardened Armor" or something could become better with each level of suit skill.
oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 194	Posted - 2013.09.19 14:08:00 - [76] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Not only is the recoil hardley any different, but i also am now limited in my ability to kill multiple people (90-100 less shots before overheat). Make less recoil a sharpshooter skill for hmg if people really want it that badely. last i checked the recoil reduction was in the basic operation ? so anyone who uses old spinny gun o doom gets it . but yea bring back heat build up reduction . heres an ideal make the gun work like the description says you know pinpoint acuracy and such
SpinUp Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.09.19 14:27:00 - [77] - Quote Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: RA Drahcir wrote: Ion Crush wrote: Your all pray and spray trash standing out in the middle of an open field being killed ARs. Learn your class. CCP gave us HMGers some new awesome maps that are nearly all indoors CQC. I havn't been killing this many people since chromosome. Recoil skill wasn't needed, but if your overheating you have no idea what your doing. It is not about what you are doing, it is about what the enemy is...when they try to overwhelm you with numbers, you cannot help but send rounds back down range in order to survive, because you cannot break contact and retreat. You are too slow. I can use cover when I need, I can manage my heat effectively, I can make sure I am squaded with at least 1 logi to help rep me. It is absolutely about what you are doing. If you are standing solo trying to be a wall vs a whole squad its already a forgone conclusion that you have lost. "I can hide, I can not shoot, I can make sure I have a babysitter." I, I, I, I. What the HMG should do is the discussion. Not how you sit camp with a logi, just to get naded and mowed over. When ARs are sprinting around with higher DPS and self sustaining suits, hell yeah I do not want to worry about overheating. When 6 proto CalAssaults try to take me and my logibro out. Of course I can choose to hide, and hope they go around or kill us quickly like you say you do. But I like to start killing them when they are close enough, and when they see me, they close in and attack. By the time I kill two/three of them, I attempt to break contact for a second to cool down, but by then they have cooked up some nades and are bunnyhopping around me. I need to keep shooting. You can play like a girl, I want to kill them all. I just liked being able to shoot 374 rounds before overheating, now what is it? 290ish? Those 80 rounds are the difference between a squad of dead ARs and a dead HMG and logibro. So you want CCP to make you invincible and require no effort to play on your part. Got ya. yes I want to be half as good as the AR user then I would be a viable player
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 215	Posted - 2013.09.19 16:03:00 - [78] - Quote The HMG did have recoil and still does. The reason you don't notice it much is because the HMG is terrible at range. The closer a target is, the bigger it is, and the climb doesn't cause you to stray off the target unless you were aiming for his head (a rookie mistake with the HMG). Recoil reduction is great for weapons with a longer range, because the target is comparatively smaller. That's exactly why it's a terrible benefit for the HMG: the range bottleneck isn't recoil or damage but (as so many others have pointed out) dispersion. It's tricky tying an operations skill to dispersion, though. At one point they made the shotgun skill reduce spread, and shotgunners had a very mixed reaction (do more damage from a distance, but it's harder to hit up close). Many of them didn't like that it wasn't optional if you wanted to equip higher-level shotguns. I don't think there are any heavies who don't want to tighten dispersion, but mandating it as you skill up might have unintended consequences. Ion Crush wrote: An interesting idea I had for sentinels maybe is a max incoming damage receivable. Like you can't take more than x damage per second from small arms fire up to a set amount of damage. Like maybe 50% of total health or something. This could make the heavy feel more tanky without a HP buff and make for an interesting mechanic. Call it "Hardened Armor" or something could become better with each level of suit skill. Intriguing, but probably not practical. Especially since small arms work differently and fire at different rates. The damage might spike and drop a lot if you're cutting it off at a certain amount every second. And how do you count forge guns and sniper rifles?
Ion Crush Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 92	Posted - 2013.09.19 17:13:00 - [79] - Quote Actually was talking about it with a corp mate and he suggested making it weapons that do less than a set amount of damage and get ride of the HP limit. So for example weapons that do less than 50 or 100 per round would have reduced incoming damage, but higher caliber weapons like forgeguns, sniper rifles, and shot guns would all still work 100% damage as viable counters to the heavy.


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