Probably not coincidentally, it was the fine aiming that DS3 users got ticked off with. And still are.

whats this aimbot that you speak of?

You see... that is what i don't understand .. you can get a "good" gaming mouse, very, very cheap... if DS3 users think that the mouse if so superior, why is not everyone using one ? That is something that seriously annoys me... what is the logic with that ? You will spend lots of cash in SP boosters that give you an advantage... but not a mouse ?

It's nothing to do with money.

It's a console and prolly set up in a living room and there's prolly other peeps in the house using it and it's a giant pain in the ass to set up a kb/m or even just mouse for use on the couch.

Actually, I have a desk. Where my PS3 is. Where my kb/m is. And all of my prior FPS experience is with kb/m. Do you have any other over-specific and totally irrelevant arguments? We're talking about the entire DS3 playerbase here.

I'm just going to point out that the only problem I had with the old mouse control (where they used raw input) was when there were glitches allowing mouse users to circumvent the turn speed cap, or when they blatantly removed it at one point.

The fine aim complaint is NOT a problem because it's balanced by the precision movement allowed by the left stick, which WASD movement will never match.

A good player with a sixaxis controller and competently-implemented controls (which are unfortunately lacking in DUST on our end as well) can handle fine aim perfectly fine.

I don't want them to keep mouse aim in the current state, and have never, at any point, said that I do want that. I want them to FIX mouse aim, not break it in the opposite direction like they keep doing. They go from one extreme to the other constantly. The controls for sixaxis are still problematic, and the controls for mouse aim get broken in different ways with every revision.

I hope they fix the mistakes they made and make it so mouse aiming works properly, but I don't want a repeat of the last time players were using a mouse without a turn speed cap, because it's been game-breaking before, and it will be game-breaking again.

That i can agree with... i never been a fan of the "instant turn kill" thing.. not even in PC games. But the mouse shouldn't feel like a virtual analog controller ... that is just wrong.

You see... that is what i don't understand .. you can get a "good" gaming mouse, very, very cheap... if DS3 users think that the mouse if so superior, why is not everyone using one ? That is something that seriously annoys me... what is the logic with that ? You will spend lots of cash in SP boosters that give you an advantage... but not a mouse ?

Because everything isn't always about what gives you the biggest min/max advantage. Many people prefer using a gamepad.

If you can't see the difference between gamepad and uncapped KBM, you probably suck at FPS. Considering I'm relatively sure you don't suck at FPS, I have to assume that you can see the difference and are just looking to argue.

IMO, FPS is more fun with the DS3 than with a KBM, but "fun" is obviously subjective. Sure, it's less precise, but if everyone has the same limitations on their precision (from having to use the DS3) then it is a moot point. Once we add KBM into the picture things get muddied. The problem here is that this is a console title, and thus it's safe to assume that most people who are likely to play Dust 514 are in agreement with me on this one.

If the caps for KBM are removed, what you are suggesting is exactly what is going to happen. All of the good players will learn to use KBM (or stop being a "good player"), and all the "normal" PS3 people will be put at a huge disadvantage. The gameplay will change in a fundamental way. Less thought will be given to positioning and FOV, and more on twitch reaction and a person's ability to do the 180 Twist and Wiggle.

That's fine for anybody who wants to play a PC style KBM FPS, but how many PS3 users do you honestly think fall into that category? You think the playerbase is small now? Just wait until this is a game where you have to plug in a Keyboard and Mouse just to keep up. Yeah, that should really excite the target demographic.

I'm just going to point out that the only problem I had with the old mouse control (where they used raw input) was when there were glitches allowing mouse users to circumvent the turn speed cap, or when they blatantly removed it at one point.

The fine aim complaint is NOT a problem because it's balanced by the precision movement allowed by the left stick, which WASD movement will never match.

A good player with a sixaxis controller and competently-implemented controls (which are unfortunately lacking in DUST on our end as well) can handle fine aim perfectly fine.

I don't want them to keep mouse aim in the current state, and have never, at any point, said that I do want that. I want them to FIX mouse aim, not break it in the opposite direction like they keep doing. They go from one extreme to the other constantly. The controls for sixaxis are still problematic, and the controls for mouse aim get broken in different ways with every revision.

I hope they fix the mistakes they made and make it so mouse aiming works properly, but I don't want a repeat of the last time players were using a mouse without a turn speed cap, because it's been game-breaking before, and it will be game-breaking again.

That i can agree with... i never been a fan of the "instant turn kill" thing.. not even in PC games. But the mouse shouldn't feel like a virtual analog controller ... that is just wrong.

I'm disturbed by the lack of Quake Arena in this topic. Back in my day, I had to rocket jump 10 miles just to get frags- over lava pits with air shot, before Propane Nightmares by Pendulum...

I was under the impression that DS3 translates your inputs to the game accurately...

You're on a console. Most people who use consoles never switch from the default control system.

Hence KB/M will always be the backseat baby... get used to it or use the Pad...

I've played with KBM, the Move Motion Controller (which I bought just to try it out), and the DS3.

The aiming with the mouse is astronomical (much better than the shakey Move Controller), I mean huge, as in it upped my game to break a previous k/d barrier I was having, to the point where I actually do a mouse and DS3 combination to secure constant head shots. The only reason why I still cling to the DS3 is because I am also working on my piloting, which the DS3 does a lot smoother due to actually benefiting from its own deadzone in this particular case.

I wish I could believe that's what they're doing. I'm pretty sure no turn speed cap on mouse aim means NO turn speed cap, which means they can insta-spin all they want and sixaxis players will be (not for the first time) at a severe and blatantly unfair disadvantage.

I've been playing FPS games since Doom, and I went through Quake, Tribes, XS and UT (among others) along the way before I moved to primarily being a console gamer. I still play PC games occasionally, and some of them are shooters, but it isn't a common occurence for me these days. In spite of that, I know how those games work, I have been good at them in the past, and it wouldn't take long to get back up to speed.

But guess what? NONE OF THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE PROBLEM SIXAXIS USERS HAVE WITH MOUSE CONTROL.

Sure, there are some idiots saying that CCP shouldn't let people use mouse and keyboard. Those people are idiots, there's no denying that. But there are LEGITIMATE concerns about what CCP are doing to mouse control in 1.4, and those have NOTHING to do with how skilled or experienced you are.

A total noob on their first day playing a typical current-gen PC FPS can insta-180 with a mouse in most games because it's easy to do. They may not be able to line up that perfect headshot like a pro, but PC gamers know not to rely on the element of surprise, because it barely lasts the tiniest fraction of a second before the other player is shooting back. On consoles, the slower turning rates enforced by the sixaxis controller emphasise the stealthy approach of hitting from behind and keeping out of harm's way. We have to use other tactics to counter a backstabbing enemy, and those skills aren't nearly as valuable on PC as they are on console, because many of them are based around the same turn speed cap that makes it more difficult to get the attacker in your sights in the first place.

Neither set of skills makes a person a "better" or "worse" FPS player, but the two styles require very different skillsets.

There have been PC FPS games in the early days which had limited turn speed, and some of them enjoyed some success for a short time before being squashed by the big names that dominated the industry. In those games, you typically saw the same kind of tactics that are common in console shooters, because (obviously) they had the same rules.

DUST needs to balance the control schemes with turn speed caps. There is no way to have a console game with optional mouse and keyboard control and to have mouse turning totally unlimited without negating any sense of fairness in control schemes.

If they do what I'm expecting, I have a keyboard and mouse, so I'll still be able to play, but I will choose not to until they fix the game, because I play the game on my couch, and there isnt' a comfortable place for me to set up a mousepad and play the game. If necessary, I can do it, but it's not necessary. It's a GAME. Games are meant to be FUN, and if I have more FUN playing a game using my sixaxis controller, I'm going to do that instead of playing DUST, which forces me NOT to use it.

According to some of you guys...( Mega Trolls ) the mouse instantly makes people Pro-Players just by touching it....

"There was a project that got killed at Microsoft. This project was designed to allow console gamers and PC gamers to interact and battle over a connected environment.

"Personally I wish it would have stayed the course. I've heard from reliable sources that during the development they brought together the best console gamers to play mediocre PC gamers at the same game... and guess what happened? They pitted console gamers with their 'console' controller, against PC gamers with their keyboard and mouse.

"The console players got destroyed every time. So much so that it would be embarrassing to the Xbox team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative. Is this why the project was killed? Who knows, but I'd love to hear from anyone involved - what happened?"

Tryhards will be tryhards. My gaming rig for PC and consoles are in the same room and I never once found the need to plug my kb/m to my PS3, if I wanted to play a PC game I would play a PC game.

Edit: Also I doubt they're keeping suit max rotation as thats the thing that kb/m users have been complaining about for months and the main reason for that "sluggish" feel when they try to turn 180 in a split second. Kinda sad CCP doesnt see a problem in putting kb/m users against DS3, gonna be one of their biggest competitive mistakes.

I will also like to add to this thread... that CCP is also completely removing aim-assist from the mouse in the 1.4 update.. some of the NooBs that actually think that they are good with the mouse right now, are going to be a bit shock.

tv tray like a baws

Aim assist is turned off for everyone since 1.3 buddy.

Isn't working as an "Aimbot" right now... but it is there...what ?... you didn't notice the miracle kills that you get sometimes when you not even aiming at you target directly ? Because i do....