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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
764
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Garrett you are right on the money imo.
I believe DS3 does have an advantage in maneuvering. In conjunction with what is prolly going to be an aggressive aim assist the DS3 might do ok against kb/m. It's a wait-and-see kinda thing.
The rotation limit was a leveling factor between the two input systems.
CCP need to state clearly that they are also removing suit rotation physics from the DS3.
Anything else is madness and will bring yet another needless kittenpoop storm of biblical proportions. I know it's obvious, but given your track record.......don't say that nobody warned you CCP.
One last point: DS3 users enjoy using finely honed motor skills as much as the kb/m peeps do, CCP. But your decision and the mechanical differences between the input systems is effectively saying to the DS3 playerbase that we will be effectively relegated to using aim assist. I hope i'm wrong, but that's how i think it's going to play out. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
764
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:It took me less than 30 seconds to get the hang of quick-turning and stopping almost exactly on my target ready to line up a shot when I first picked up XS, which I got before Quake. I had to tweak the sensitivity on the mouse when I picked up Quake so it was comfortable, but once I did that, I was perfectly comfortable doing the same thing there almost immediately.
I don't see what your mention of "aimbots" has to do with this conversation, either. I don't use them, and even aim assist (which, contrary to popular delusion, is NOT the same thing) is something I usually turn off when given the choice. In the current state of DUST, I'm unfortunately forced to turn aim assist on, because CQC does weird things to my control sensitivity and breaks the game when I turn it off. Aim assist doesn't have time to kick in during most CQC battles in DUST, so other than turning off a glitch, it doesn't have much impact on my usual playstyle.
So... literally minutes of "practice and experience" for a computer-literate gamer being all that's required to hard-counter a valid tactic that's been learned, relearned, countered, and had the counters learned and anticipated with their own tactics. Yep, sounds fair.
EDIT: I'm not arguing that you shouldn't be able to use your mouse, or that you shouldn't be able to have the ability to turn at full speed with a mouse then shift immediately into precision aim just by changing how fast you're moving it. I just want mouse aim to be limited with the same turn speed cap that the sixaxis controller has, becase not having that is why the PS3 side of UT3 died, and is part of the reason why Shadowrun died. The other part is that instead of properly balancing the control schemes, they added aim assist that was FAR too effective (to the point where "aimbot" is probably appropriate). That wasn't even the problem to start with... was the "Fine Aiming "that mouse users got **** off with... " Raw Input ". CCP completely nerfed the mouse.. instead of just "limiting" how fast you can turn the mouse. How a "Virtual Joystick" excuses the fact that "some" mouse users could instantly turn and kill someone... ? But to finish this argument in a friendly note... lets just say that i agree with some of your "statements"... but not all. 
Probably not coincidentally, it was the fine aiming that DS3 users got ticked off with. And still are. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
764
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:bolsh lee wrote:Was not expecting a post of this nature after reading the title. .. Was getting ready to troll, but loved the read lets just hope the kb/m is back to speed with 1.4 because honestly if its not, there isn't much us old scholl twitch shooters can do to compete with the DS3 built in aimbot...  whats this aimbot that you speak of?
Ofc there was no aimbot(aim assist) in Uprising, but his brings up a good point.
This experience we've had in Uprising 1.0-1.3 is something we all need to remember.
It was a live test of DS3 without aim assist vs. kb/m with non-raw input.
The DS3 users were unhappy with their input control curve and the kb/m users were unhappy with their input control curve, so let's call it even. Both were limited by the same suit rotation physics(at least in theory).
Was there a clear advantage of one over the other? You be the judge, but to me it looked neutral, all things considered.
Let's see how this compares with what we're about to experience in 1.4
P.S.: (CCP it would be so much easier to have this conversation if you would tell us what the control functions looked like for both input systems. What's the big secret anyway?) |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
764
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:... That wasn't even the problem to start with... was the "Fine Aiming "that mouse users got **** off with... " Raw Input ". CCP completely nerfed the mouse.. instead of just "limiting" how fast you can turn the mouse. How a "Virtual Joystick" excuses the fact that "some" mouse users could instantly turn and kill someone... ? But to finish this argument in a friendly note... lets just say that i agree with some of your "statements"... but not all. Probably not coincidentally, it was the fine aiming that DS3 users got ticked off with. And still are. You see... that is what i don't understand .. you can get a "good" gaming mouse, very, very cheap... if DS3 users think that the mouse if so superior, why is not everyone using one ? That is something that seriously annoys me... what is the logic with that ? You will spend lots of cash in SP boosters that give you an advantage... but not a mouse ?
It's nothing to do with money.
It's a console and prolly set up in a living room and there's prolly other peeps in the house using it and it's a giant pain in the ass to set up a kb/m or even just mouse for use on the couch.
Edit: And what i meant in my post by 'fine aiming' was the crappy input control curve CCP was using for the DS3. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
764
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Actually, I have a desk. Where my PS3 is. Where my kb/m is. And all of my prior FPS experience is with kb/m. Do you have any other over-specific and totally irrelevant arguments? We're talking about the entire DS3 playerbase here.
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
767
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Posted - 2013.09.02 13:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Beeeees wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Beeeees wrote:
"Is this why the project was killed? Who knows, but I'd love to hear from anyone involved - what happened?"
Is not conclusive why MS stopped the project ... it could easily been because Console gamer's are just lazy, and they just don't like to "Work Hard" to win. No ones in the full Article they said that was because the "KB/M" specifically. Occam-¦s Razor
+1 for a thinking man drawing the simplest and most reasonable conclusion. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
767
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Posted - 2013.09.02 13:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Beeeees wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Beeeees wrote:
"Is this why the project was killed? Who knows, but I'd love to hear from anyone involved - what happened?"
Is not conclusive why MS stopped the project ... it could easily been because Console gamer's are just lazy, and they just don't like to "Work Hard" to win. No ones in the full Article they said that was because the "KB/M" specifically. Occam-¦s Razor But... my theory is the simplest of the competing theories... so by that logic, i am right and you are wrong ? 
Your theory is deeply embedded in you personal gaming ideology, methinks, and resists evidence to the contrary. |
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