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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
957
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Posted - 2013.08.29 10:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:[quote=Lurchasaurus][quote=Acturus Galaxy][quote=pegasis prime]
Then I agree somewhat with the lai dai grenades. Remember the squishy clone has to get up close to hit with the AV grenade. You have three turrets on the tank and active scanners, should be easy to avoid unless you go solo in your tank and drive around in the red blob thinking you should be invincible in the metal fortress. dont just assume that every tank has a scanner and use it as part of your argument here man. If you are putting yourself in harms way to get those lai dais off you are doing it wrong. hiding behind a short wall is perfect tactics and railings somehow stop tank fire unless you take the time to aim through the bars.
No, he have a point, most tanks i shoot at they don't move when they see me shooting at them.. is a bit like... " Ha,ha ! look another AV loser " ... To they realize that i packing ADV Swarm Launcher with Complex light damage modules, and a ADV Plasma Cannon to break through their shields... then they run as hell when they see their shields dropping almost instantly. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1159
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:The proto blaster already kills my 700eHP clone in less than a second, no need for homing grenades as everything you point at is dead. lol you dont even need to point. your swarms and av nades do all the work for you You are aware how useless swarm launcher clones are against other infantry? If one tanker provokes the opposite team to spawn with 4 swarmers, that makes it 15 clones vs 12 clones. And your tank is still lethal to everything red on the field, where the swarm launchers can do little but try and target the tank. Maybe the tanker ends up hiding most of the game, but you have accomplished a big advantage for your team.
while i can see you probably do have a problem with this, i will never accept it as a valid argument as a whole. I have an entire alt character built upon using SMGs and knives and i promise you, they are anything but useless
whats the point of having a lethal tank if everything that tries to kill us is invisible? |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1161
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:No, he have a point, most tanks i shoot at they don't move when they see me shooting at them.. is a bit like... " Ha,ha ! look another AV loser " ... To they realize that i packing ADV Swarm Launcher with Complex light damage modules, and a ADV Plasma Cannon to break through their shields... then they run as hell when they see their shields dropping almost instantly.
bad tanks are bad tanks.... :/ |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1134
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades |
demonkiller 12
Seraphim Auxiliaries
142
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Cant wait for the medium and heavy aerial vehicles to come into the game, thats REALLY gonna **** HAV jockeys off I look forward to the "Wahhhhhh they should cost 10M because they are good at their intended role and drop bombs and stuff waaaahhh " ive already asked for a sky fortress which has 2 large turrets 3 medium turrets and a pilot, it can also deploy vehicles out the back ie; you want to get in a tank from the spawn screen - you select the sky fortress and choose a vehicle to spawn in you then spawn in your vehicle in the cargo bay of the sky fortress and deploy your vehicle from there when you want, of course vehicles would have enertia dampers as well, and we could let fighters take off from this area as well |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1161
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades
and that still wouldnt come close to the million i pay just for a turret |
Acturus Galaxy
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
117
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:The proto blaster already kills my 700eHP clone in less than a second, no need for homing grenades as everything you point at is dead. lol you dont even need to point. your swarms and av nades do all the work for you You are aware how useless swarm launcher clones are against other infantry? If one tanker provokes the opposite team to spawn with 4 swarmers, that makes it 15 clones vs 12 clones. And your tank is still lethal to everything red on the field, where the swarm launchers can do little but try and target the tank. Maybe the tanker ends up hiding most of the game, but you have accomplished a big advantage for your team. while i can see you probably do have a problem with this, i will never accept it as a valid argument as a whole. I have an entire alt character built upon using SMGs and knives and i promise you, they are anything but useless whats the point of having a lethal tank if everything that tries to kill us is invisible?
The difference is the price of the suit. You would need to go full proto if you have to add both advanced AV and an advanced sidearm making your fit very expensive. The AV'er normally adds damage mods making him very vulnerable to close quarter combat which all sidearms are aimed at. Being in a 200k isk suit with only a SMG as main weapon, and it is not even proto or have any damage mods. Yes, you could balance it with a better sidearm and less damage on the AV, but then you would not be able to archive much against anything but milita and standard stuff. The consensus on this forum sounds like it is proto AV with damage modules that are needed against LLAV vehicles and skilled tankers unless you can get up close with nano hives and lai dai grenades. The AV grenade clone should be avoidable, there is a huge risc on the clone trying to get up close. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
957
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades
360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
563
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. Commando?
Also, side arm. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1163
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:Lurchasaurus wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:The proto blaster already kills my 700eHP clone in less than a second, no need for homing grenades as everything you point at is dead. lol you dont even need to point. your swarms and av nades do all the work for you You are aware how useless swarm launcher clones are against other infantry? If one tanker provokes the opposite team to spawn with 4 swarmers, that makes it 15 clones vs 12 clones. And your tank is still lethal to everything red on the field, where the swarm launchers can do little but try and target the tank. Maybe the tanker ends up hiding most of the game, but you have accomplished a big advantage for your team. while i can see you probably do have a problem with this, i will never accept it as a valid argument as a whole. I have an entire alt character built upon using SMGs and knives and i promise you, they are anything but useless whats the point of having a lethal tank if everything that tries to kill us is invisible? The difference is the price of the suit. You would need to go full proto if you have to add both advanced AV and an advanced sidearm making your fit very expensive. The AV'er normally adds damage mods making him very vulnerable to close quarter combat which all sidearms are aimed at. Being in a 200k isk suit with only a SMG as main weapon, and it is not even proto or have any damage mods. Yes, you could balance it with a better sidearm and less damage on the AV, but then you would not be able to archive much against anything but milita and standard stuff. The consensus on this forum sounds like it is proto AV with damage modules that are needed against LLAV vehicles and skilled tankers unless you can get up close with nano hives and lai dai grenades. The AV grenade clone should be avoidable, there is a huge risc on the clone trying to get up close.
there is a lot of selfishness in that logic. It is your choice to stack dmods over shields or armor, just like it is a tanker's choice to stack more tank or better guns, especially now that we dont get a pg skill. You cant balance av weapons or their prices based on your suit choices. as a tank i could go for a gun that would kill other tanks, but then i get three shotted by AV, or i could go for a fit that can tank against AV so i only die in 4, maybe 5 hits, which still sucks, but then any enemy tank will chew me up and spit me out due to lack of enough dps to bust his armor.
at least 80% of all engagements between tanks and infantry are close to cover where the infantry can dictate the positioning. all you have to do is chuck that nade over the wall.
dont ever complain to a tanker about expensive fits. ever. or dropship pilots for that matter.
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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
958
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. Commando? Also, side arm.
I doesn't matter how you try to look at it .... tanks don't get kill by a sneaky scout with a Shotgun, or an annoying red-line sniper packing light damage modules ... suggesting that a hand-held weapon should cost nearly as much as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i hear in this forums. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1163
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank.
isnt that some ****? trust me, you dont have to tell us.....WE KNOW |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1163
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:26:00 -
[43] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. Commando? Also, side arm. I doesn't matter how you try to look at it .... tanks don't get kill by a sneaky scout with a Shotgun, or an annoying red-line sniper packing light damage modules ... suggesting that a hand-held weapon should cost nearly as much as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i hear in this forums.
it doesn't matter how you try to look at it....tanks get killed by a sneaky scout with lai dais, or an annoying invisible tower sniper forge packing heavy damage modules........suggesting that a hand-held weapon should do nearly as much damage as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in these forums.
See? I can do it too. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1135
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. Commando? Also, side arm. I doesn't matter how you try to look at it .... tanks don't get kill by a sneaky scout with a Shotgun, or an annoying red-line sniper packing light damage modules ... suggesting that a hand-held weapon should cost nearly as much as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i hear in this forums.
There is no risk with AV
No cost risk since its cheap as chips
Has more damage than any of our large vehicle mounted turrets
Can solo any fit tank currently due to proto vs basic |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
958
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:+1
Wait for the rage of a 500k FG and a 360k swarm launcher/av nades 360k for a Swarm Launcher ? just to be kill by a red-line sniper in a couple of shoots ? or a scout with a Militia Shotgun .. or a MD with a couple of nades ? yeah... i can see how that will work perfectly ... nearly a 450k Dropsuit wasted "TRYING" to kill a tank. Commando? Also, side arm. I doesn't matter how you try to look at it .... tanks don't get kill by a sneaky scout with a Shotgun, or an annoying red-line sniper packing light damage modules ... suggesting that a hand-held weapon should cost nearly as much as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i hear in this forums. it doesn't matter how you try to look at it....tanks get killed by a sneaky scout with lai dais, or an annoying invisible tower sniper forge packing heavy damage modules........suggesting that a hand-held weapon should do nearly as much damage as a tank, is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in these forums. See? I can do it too.
You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
37
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Cant wait for the medium and heavy aerial vehicles to come into the game, thats REALLY gonna **** HAV jockeys off I look forward to the "Wahhhhhh they should cost 10M because they are good at their intended role and drop bombs and stuff waaaahhh "
Are they planning on gunship types? I wanna butcher a load of tanks to the flight of the valkaryies!! |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
563
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote: You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill.
About the price of the tank you killed. If you are bad at it. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1163
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill.
and that 1 tank kill is still double the cost |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
958
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote: You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill.
About the price of the tank you killed. If you are bad at it.
And how many KILLS that tank gets ? 30-40 kills ? How much ISK it gets at the end of the battle ? You suggesting that spending 1,600,000 isk for ONE kill is acceptable ? |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
401
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
btw swarms have only one real valid target: armor tanks -shield tanks are too resistant due to explo resistance -llav are invincible -dropships outrun swarms with AB, once they are at 1/3 health they just fly away and come back later with full health -untanked vehicles can be also taken out by militia swarms, not an argument
the price for swarms is fine. |
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Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1163
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote: You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill.
About the price of the tank you killed. If you are bad at it. And how many KILLS that tank gets ? 30-40 kills ? How much ISK it gets at the end of the battle ? You suggesting that spending 1,600,000 isk for ONE kill is acceptable ?
30-40? in this build? i dont think your opinions matter here anymore. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
958
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Panther Alpha wrote: You know how easily Scouts die ?... you just have to look at them with evil eyes and they die. For every time a Scout kills a tank it dies about 4 or 5 times in the process... 400k x 4 = 1,600,000 isk ... that is allot of ISK for 1 tank kill.
About the price of the tank you killed. If you are bad at it. And how many KILLS that tank gets ? 30-40 kills ? How much ISK it gets at the end of the battle ? You suggesting that spending 1,600,000 isk for ONE kill is acceptable ? 30-40? in this build? i dont think your opinions matter here anymore.
I see tanks getting 20+ kills every time ....and even the bad ones gets at least 10+ ...even if it is 20 kills only.. still is 19 more kills than just 1... that is nearly 1000 wp, with kill assist, and installation kills and Turrets kills.. that is at least 2000 wp + ...
1 tank kill give you 75 wp, 200 wp max. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
563
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 12:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
I see infantry going over 35 kills a match. You are telling me that tanks are doing worse than infantry. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
958
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 12:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I see infantry going over 35 kills a match. You are telling me that tanks are doing worse than infantry.
And how many times infantry dies ? .. some times i get 30 kills.. "sometimes", but i die a minimum of 8 times in the process. Tanks can potentially get 30 kills without dying ones... is a very big difference ...Imagine if AV nades cost 300k ..
8 X 350k = 2,800,000 isk. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
555
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I see infantry going over 35 kills a match. You are telling me that tanks are doing worse than infantry. And how many times infantry dies ? .. some times i get 30 kills.. "sometimes", but i die a minimum of 8 times in the process. Tanks can potentially get 30 kills without dying ones... is a very big difference ...Imagine if AV nades cost 300k .. 8 X 350k = 2,800,000 isk. Yeah but you can run an ISK profit every game with infantry unless you are stupid and run proto. My 2.2m SP alt runs ADV and makes a profit every game.
If AV grenades cost 300k, people would think before slapping them onto an assault suit not meant for AV. I'm not saying that they should cost that much, but a price increase in AV will make people think twice before slapping on AV. And proto forges need to cost at least half of a proto large turret. The amount of proto forges that are being run is astonishing, as the risk v reward is extremely low for them on top of towers. If they cost more, people would think twice before starting a match with an IAFG before any vehicles have been called in. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
846
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Yeah... small problem with you logic ... AV weapons only kills Vehicles .. turrets kills EVERYTHING. This x 100000.
A guy with STANDARD [insert light, sidearm, or grenade weapon here] cannot ass **** your tank. The dropsuits on which those AV weapons reside are more vulnerable. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
847
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I see infantry going over 35 kills a match. You are telling me that tanks are doing worse than infantry. And how many times infantry dies ? .. some times i get 30 kills.. "sometimes", but i die a minimum of 8 times in the process. Tanks can potentially get 30 kills without dying ones... is a very big difference ...Imagine if AV nades cost 300k .. 8 X 350k = 2,800,000 isk. Yeah but you can run an ISK profit every game with infantry unless you are stupid and run proto. My 2.2m SP alt runs ADV and makes a profit every game. If AV grenades cost 300k, people would think before slapping them onto an assault suit not meant for AV. I'm not saying that they should cost that much, but a price increase in AV will make people think twice before slapping on AV. And proto forges need to cost at least half of a proto large turret. The amount of proto forges that are being run is astonishing, as the risk v reward is extremely low for them on top of towers. If they cost more, people would think twice before starting a match with an IAFG before any vehicles have been called in.
Implying tankers are supposed to be solo-viable and profitable.
/end troll
Seriously though, current cost-to-income ratios imply tanks are squad/team/corp support assets. Means you need to rely on corporation financial support to consistently run tanks. A loose "New Eden Precedent" for this "dependent on others" gameplay exists in the form of super capital ships in EvE that require support. (Not an argument in favor of this fact, just a sidenote and explanation of where I'm coming from when discussing hypothetical CCP logic)
Tanks were more solo-viable before they rat ****** the skill tree and de-coupled infantry and vehicle support skills. When support skills were shared, situational usage of vehicles was more viable as the character could also be spec into infantry skillsets.
I... I can't even go on. This frustrates me.
My God they have ****** this game up haven't they? |
ResistanceGTA
Valor Tactical Operations Immortal Coalition of New-Eden
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:btw swarms have only one real valid target: armor tanks -shield tanks are too resistant due to explo resistance -llav are invincible -dropships outrun swarms with AB, once they are at 1/3 health they just fly away and come back later with full health -untanked vehicles can be also taken out by militia swarms, not an argument
the price for swarms is fine.
Why does everyone say LLAVs are invincible? They are no where near invincible. It just takes some tactics to kill them, but they burn quite nice. Sorry, not the point of the thread, I just get really annoyed when I see people say this. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
962
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 13:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
ResistanceGTA wrote:Jack McReady wrote:btw swarms have only one real valid target: armor tanks -shield tanks are too resistant due to explo resistance -llav are invincible -dropships outrun swarms with AB, once they are at 1/3 health they just fly away and come back later with full health -untanked vehicles can be also taken out by militia swarms, not an argument
the price for swarms is fine. Why does everyone say LLAVs are invincible? They are no where near invincible. It just takes some tactics to kill them, but they burn quite nice. Sorry, not the point of the thread, I just get really annoyed when I see people say this.
When you hit a LLAV with an AVD Plasma Cannon with Damage modules.. and the shield "doesn't" goes down.. i'll say that makes them invincible... remember that the Plasma Cannon is supposed to be designed to break through Vehicles Shields. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
555
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:ResistanceGTA wrote:Jack McReady wrote:btw swarms have only one real valid target: armor tanks -shield tanks are too resistant due to explo resistance -llav are invincible -dropships outrun swarms with AB, once they are at 1/3 health they just fly away and come back later with full health -untanked vehicles can be also taken out by militia swarms, not an argument
the price for swarms is fine. Why does everyone say LLAVs are invincible? They are no where near invincible. It just takes some tactics to kill them, but they burn quite nice. Sorry, not the point of the thread, I just get really annoyed when I see people say this. When you hit a LLAV with an AVD Plasma Cannon with Damage modules.. and the shield "doesn't" goes down.. i'll say that makes them invincible... remember that the Plasma Cannon is supposed to be designed to break through Vehicles Shields. They are not invincible. I've lost my Charybdis plenty of times because I had three proto swarms unleashed upon me at once. It's called coordination. Sadly, this kind of coordination needs to be used for taking out HAVs, not LLAVs. |
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