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Why prototype Tanks are a bad idea!

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Exmaple Core Ancient Exiles 992	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:05:00 - [91] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: medomai grey wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. Another way of looking at tiers for tanks is that because vehicles come pre-tiercide, the current PG/CPU and slot allocations are proto and anything below proto will have a worse PG/CPU and slots. In short, tanks get a huge nerf from the applying tiers. Vehicles are currently not pre-teiricide, the reason why I can say this is because you can tiericide what we have and based on the snippet from CCP Wolfman's 1.5 vehicle blog, that is what exactly is happening to vehicles, they're getting teiricided first. what is this term; teiricide, what does it mean? Also, of course tiers of tanks gets worse if their under proto, proto is the best. We curently have no proto tanks all we have is standard, so we would be improving tanks as we introduce new tanks untill we finally hit proto. I fail to see how adding ADV and proto tanks, wich are better than our current standard tanks, will nerf tanks
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7792	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:12:00 - [92] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: medomai grey wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. Another way of looking at tiers for tanks is that because vehicles come pre-tiercide, the current PG/CPU and slot allocations are proto and anything below proto will have a worse PG/CPU and slots. In short, tanks get a huge nerf from the applying tiers. Vehicles are currently not pre-teiricide, the reason why I can say this is because you can tiericide what we have and based on the snippet from CCP Wolfman's 1.5 vehicle blog, that is what exactly is happening to vehicles, they're getting teiricided first. what is this term; teiricide, what does it mean? Also, of course tiers of tanks gets worse if their under proto, proto is the best. We curently have no proto tanks all we have is standard, so we would be improving tanks as we introduce new tanks untill we finally hit proto. I fail to see how adding ADV and proto tanks will nerf tanks Essentialy It means Cut out useless crap, most of which would fail the 'why/why not' test. Replace with useful crap which generally passes the 'must' test. Avoid having 500 failed clones of the trying to sing the same song and dance the same dance. If trimming is not possible then new dance routines are required. Eve Online has over 500 uniquely different ships in terms of use, handling, fitting, roles, culture in fleet and much much more. The last bastions of boring are freighters I believe. If Dust 514 is racially equaled out and both crusader and pilot drop suits are introduced and without tiericide we would almost have more dropsuits than Eve, but only give or take 6-8 real flavors anyone would care for. Some argue it dumbs down the game but when you can do it without trimming it doesnt dumb down anything it enhances what you already have into more intriguing and intuitive to play on the field. What if Caldari had 3 different assault suits? all three play differently and have different roles from each other but each three is unique unto itself and not just a progression of each other? Type I Type II Type III suits instead. Type 1 can play like the standard soldier, type 2 more of a medic, type 3 can be the versatile specialist.
Exmaple Core Ancient Exiles 992	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:16:00 - [93] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: medomai grey wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. Another way of looking at tiers for tanks is that because vehicles come pre-tiercide, the current PG/CPU and slot allocations are proto and anything below proto will have a worse PG/CPU and slots. In short, tanks get a huge nerf from the applying tiers. Vehicles are currently not pre-teiricide, the reason why I can say this is because you can tiericide what we have and based on the snippet from CCP Wolfman's 1.5 vehicle blog, that is what exactly is happening to vehicles, they're getting teiricided first. what is this term; teiricide, what does it mean? Also, of course tiers of tanks gets worse if their under proto, proto is the best. We curently have no proto tanks all we have is standard, so we would be improving tanks as we introduce new tanks untill we finally hit proto. I fail to see how adding ADV and proto tanks will nerf tanks Essentialy It means Cut out useless crap, most of which would fail the 'why/why not' test. Replace with useful crap which generally passes the 'must' test. Avoid having 500 failed clones of the trying to sing the same song and dance the same dance. If trimming is not possible then new dance routines are required. Eve Online has over 500 uniquely different ships in terms of use, handling, fitting, roles, culture in fleet and much much more. The last bastions of boring are freighters I believe. If Dust 514 is racially equaled out and both crusader and pilot drop suits are introduced and without tiericide we would almost have more dropsuits than Eve, but only give or take 6-8 real flavors anyone would care for. Some argue it dumbs down the game but when you can do it without trimming it doesnt dumb down anything it enhances what you already have into more intriguing and intuitive to play on the field. What if Caldari had 3 different assault suits? all three play differently and have different roles from each other but each three is unique unto itself and not just a progression of each other? Type I Type II Type III suits instead. Type 1 can play like the standard soldier, type 2 more of a medic, type 3 can be the versatile specialist. okay, simple. Thank you for answering my question, im sorry im being an ass on your thread but you gotta work with us, cant ignore us buddy
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1862	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:16:00 - [94] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: IWS, it's simple. Never give us tiers for tanks, but never give AV tiers either, give all of them different roles and counters, so a fast aerial vehicle, there is AV which can counter that such as an AA swarm launcher (Fires 6 weak missiles that are very fast) and if theres a slow Tank then theres a single shot missile that can do large damage but cannot lock on. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. Yep, it looks like tiericide is making its way through all of dust. I suspect we'll find that higher levels of AV operation skills will unlock specialized variants but no longer have a significant damage increase from tier to tier. I always felt that a 10% damage increase between tiers was perfectly fine, and with some rebalancing of dropsuits down the line you'll find that the fitting cost for that higher alpha will come at the cost of modules. The thing is, we can't have situations like the swarm launcher where you increase damage by 50% from std to proto... Going from 4 missiles to 6 missiles was a huge mistake. Hopefully they have learned their lesson. But having swarms have the same number of missiles but do 270-300-330 between tiers, with increasing fitting costs (therefore diminishing returns on damage output/fitting cost) is a good thing. Higher AV alpha comes at the cost of tank (or should eventually). Its the same mechanic they are pushing for vehicles. Proto turrets are supposed to eat up a ton of fitting, so much so that you do it at the cost of being able to fit hp modules. Its the same premise in eve and the purpose of the fitting system in the first place. If you want AV to no longer have tiers, then neither should turrets... and I personally find that boring.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5934	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:17:00 - [95] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eve Online has over 500 uniquely different ships in terms of use, handling, fitting, roles, culture in fleet and much much more. The last bastions of boring are freighters I believe. If Dust 514 is racially equaled out and both crusader and pilot drop suits are introduced. We would almost have more dropsuits than Eve, but only give or take 6-8 real flavors anyone would care for. I play EVE, it's spreadsheets with a bunch of things you can do. This is DUST. It's all the same, with minute differences that are hardly noticeable unless you put on your fan goggles and drink the punch. DUST is NOTHING like EVE, maybe it wants to be, but it is not. It is a feeble shadow of a successful relative, burdened with all the expectations and none of the realities. DUST has a loooooooooooooooooong way to go before anyone can reasonably and realistically compare it to EVE, which will always be difficult because %'s don't translate as well into the FPS genre, since YOU are at the center of attention in such a game. Things have to be unique and meaningful or else people just gloss over it and instead of FoTM we wind up with builds that you have to skill into specifically over X amount of months so that way you can be accepted into PC and other game modes that probably won't be seen for another year. Good luck with vehicles, it's an uphill battle to say the least.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7793	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:22:00 - [96] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eve Online has over 500 uniquely different ships in terms of use, handling, fitting, roles, culture in fleet and much much more. The last bastions of boring are freighters I believe. If Dust 514 is racially equaled out and both crusader and pilot drop suits are introduced. We would almost have more dropsuits than Eve, but only give or take 6-8 real flavors anyone would care for. I play EVE, it's spreadsheets with a bunch of things you can do. This is DUST. It's all the same, with minute differences that are hardly noticeable unless you put on your fan goggles and drink the punch. DUST is NOTHING like EVE, maybe it wants to be, but it is not. It is a feeble shadow of a successful relative, burdened with all the expectations and none of the realities. DUST has a loooooooooooooooooong way to go before anyone can reasonably and realistically compare it to EVE, which will always be difficult because %'s don't translate as well into the FPS genre, since YOU are at the center of attention in such a game. Things have to be unique and meaningful or else people just gloss over it and instead of FoTM we wind up with builds that you have to skill into specifically over X amount of months so that way you can be accepted into PC and other game modes that probably won't be seen for another year. Good luck with vehicles, it's an uphill battle to say the least. Exactly. Dust is an FPS the differences between things must be stronger and very tangible something you can touch. The modules and weapons can keep the tiered progression to help empower players as they grow and encourage fitting skills (actual art of putting together a fit) the base models that the modules get attached to however has to be made to account for that environment however and cluttering it the @#% up is not going to help alleviate the issues caused by having a sea of senseless unmeaningful choices.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7793	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:24:00 - [97] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: okay, simple. Thank you for answering my question, im sorry im being an ass on your thread but you gotta work with us, cant ignore us buddy Just stirring the pot and picking whatever floats up and knowing what sinks. Forums have to be filtered through you know that. As for the comment about higher skill levels unlocking more 'exotic' weapon varieties I am all for it as long as it can be made feasible as new weapons and reasonable. It would take a bunch more creative juices flowing but at least we can easily declare specialist a variant on anything for lvl 2 maybe.
Exmaple Core Ancient Exiles 992	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:27:00 - [98] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Exmaple Core wrote: okay, simple. Thank you for answering my question, im sorry im being an ass on your thread but you gotta work with us, cant ignore us buddy Just stirring the pot and picking whatever floats up and knowing what sinks. Forums have to be filtered through you know that. but im giving you very solid answers supported by facts and you choose to ignore them. You present a promblem, i fix it and fix it well and you do not accept it. Your like no, i will not allow your reason to reasonably solve this promblem. It makes no sence and makes me not want to put in my 2 cents
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 136	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:28:00 - [99] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bittersteel the Bastard wrote: IWS I feel for you because you are going to get soooooooo chewed out by tankers. I haven't seen a single tanker go to the white board and tried to realistically design said tanks within current game expectations. I did. Also max rack size increase is a horrible option as it will lead to a game wide nerf of EVERYTHING. slots are a weighted stat and everything is weighed into that slot value. go EVE style 8 high 8 low 8 medium 3 rigs you all know the ** also why the ** are they all called madrugar/gunloggi, i expect better names
Crimson Judgment ROGUE SPADES EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:39:00 - [100] - Quote IWS i know what your doing here this thread is secretly called tanker feedback on how we should make the proto tanks in 1.5 and how they could be without being OP. assumptions aside i believe your going about this wrong instead of increasing the slot layout increase the CPU and PG by i dunno 10% per tier so we get 20% more CPU and PG at proto than maybe change back the engineering skill so it gives us 25 % PG at max doing this alone would give my gunnlogi 2 low slots because tanks lack so much PG that to make a decent gunnlogi they HAD to be filled with the best PG mods before and/or you can increase the max health by about 1000 per tier and/or increase passive resist per tier to 3% resist at ADV and 5% at proto (to the main tank of the vehicle) for amarr have 2% to both at ADV and 3% to both at proto of course i don't see a problem with giving them 1 more slot at proto make all vehicles in every tier come with militia turrets militia vehicles come pre-fit i don't know why standard don't and if you choose not to replace those turrets you can save some ISK on that note reduce the price of turrets they are waaaaaaaaay to expensive so reduce their price by 30-35-40% also reduce the price of vehicles a bit to me the current prices should fit ADV tanks/vehicles so only reduce their price by 10-15% you can increase the acceleration per tier. make hits to the front of the tank do 50-75% damage hits to the side do 100% damage and hits to the rear of the tank do 150-175-200% damage (note these percentages are affected by your vehicles passive resist so if you had 15% resist hits to the front would do 35-60% damage instead of 50-75% this also applies to damage mods in the same way) so taking a tank down can be easy if you sneak up on said tank and hit it from behind instead of just keep pegging it and it will die so AV players can destroy a tank just as easily but some thought and planning must go into it or they will have a rough time trying to destroy that tank since it comes in the same form of vehicle balance lets discuss my opinions on the pilot suit Pilot suit bonus- +5% to active module cooldown time per level 10% was too OP 5% should work nicely but if that would still be OP i suggest +2% to shield and armor resistance per level Gallente pilot suit bonus- +3% to shield and armor module efficiency per level 2% was a bit low so 3% should be more noticeable while not being OP Minmatar pilot suit bonus- +5% to turret upgrade modules per level this skill is perfect and will return turret modules to their former glory Caldari pilot suit bonus- +15% to vehicle shield recharge rate per level this skill fits the Caldari perfectly and should make passive tanking a viable option Amarr pilot suit bonus- +2% to module active time per level this skill should fit the Amarr because their vehicles should be slower then the rest and would need more time on their modules to get away from a hotzone i chose 2% because anymore could potentially make some modules OP so those are my thoughts on proto tanks/vehicles note im not asking you to do ALL of the above but those are some nice suggestions that hopefully some make it ingame i hope i don't come across as pushy and if i do i apologize please take my thoughts into consideration i in no way aim for tanks to be OP i aim for the survivability of a tank and a weakness to AV and at the same time make it so they just don't fall apart when AV looks at them funny lol P.S. small arms fire (AR's and other weapons like it) should not even scratch a tank its rather annoying when running a armor vehicle some random guy shoots you with an AR after your shields have been diminished and that armor is gone until you turn on your Repper just a suggestion though thanks for creating this thread so we can provide feedback on what our proto vehicles should look like in 1.5

Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1192	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:39:00 - [101] - Quote Go home, IWS, you're drunk. Std tanks; 2/5 200k Adv, 3/6 800k Pro 4/7 1.5mil Boom. Awesomeness achieved.
Exmaple Core Ancient Exiles 995	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:40:00 - [102] - Quote .
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 42	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:45:00 - [103] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. Sagaris was 5 high, 3 low. But dint have stupid movement penalty, had slightly increased passive shield rep, and a bit of extra cpu. That is a upgrade from the standard tanks. Something worthy of PC not garbage enforcers
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 136	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:47:00 - [104] - Quote why dont we just have more variants of tanks? ive always said this Militia Soma/Sica Std Assault tank - bonus to dmg and related mods Deffence tank - bonus to health and related mods Logi tank bonus - bonus to shield/armor transporters Adv Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank Pro Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 43	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:49:00 - [105] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: why dont we just have more variants of tanks? ive always said this Militia Soma/Sica Std Assault tank - bonus to dmg and related mods Deffence tank - bonus to health and related mods Logi tank bonus - bonus to shield/armor transporters Adv Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank Pro Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank CCP wud fuk up the balancing on that. Just bring back the sagaris and well all be good
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 137	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:51:00 - [106] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: demonkiller 12 wrote: why dont we just have more variants of tanks? ive always said this Militia Soma/Sica Std Assault tank - bonus to dmg and related mods Deffence tank - bonus to health and related mods Logi tank bonus - bonus to shield/armor transporters Adv Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank Pro Assault tank Deffence tank Logi tank CCP wud fuk up the balancing on that. Just bring back the sagaris and well all be good even i liked the sagaris and i only got to sit in feronias tank, that was wayyyyy before i started tanking
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 137	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:53:00 - [107] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: PG's and CPU is what makes a tank, a madrugar proto will give 2 sh**s about moar high slots. That is what needs to be taken into consideration. more highs for armor and more lows for shield would greatly help so whatever you're talking about.........................................................................k
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 43	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:56:00 - [108] - Quote sagaris is only worthy tank of PC....
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7795	Posted - 2013.08.27 18:57:00 - [109] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Go home, IWS, you're drunk. Std tanks; 2/5 200k Adv, 3/6 800k Pro 4/7 1.5mil Boom. Awesomeness achieved. 4x rolled tungsten plates, 3X resist, top row remote armor reppers lock to your best friend in a similar fit tank. the corrected resistances effective the entire HP pool and not the base + armor skills max tank that can laugh off an entire team's worth of AV just about. Don't fit small turrets keep good comms with your spider buddies. Fit highest metalevel possible emphasis on self buffer inflation first. That would be about 70,000+ EHP with effective 1,100 EHP repaired per second Swarms only operate in about a 6k damage over 15 second time compression with travel accounted for which equals about 440 dps effective, You'll need pretty much the entire team to kill one tank in a usual engagement window and that is nowhere near guaranteed.
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 137	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:01:00 - [110] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Go home, IWS, you're drunk. Std tanks; 2/5 200k Adv, 3/6 800k Pro 4/7 1.5mil Boom. Awesomeness achieved. 4x rolled tungsten plates, 3X resist, top row remote armor reppers lock to your best friend in a similar fit tank. the corrected resistances effective the entire HP pool and not the base + armor skills max tank that can laugh off an entire team's worth of AV just about. Don't fit small turrets keep good comms with your spider buddies. Fit highest metalevel possible emphasis on self buffer inflation first. That would be about 70,000+ EHP with effective 1,100 EHP repaired per second Swarms only operate in about a 6k damage over 15 second time compression with travel accounted for which equals about 440 dps effective, You'll need pretty much the entire team to kill one tank in a usual engagement window and that is nowhere near guaranteed. This of course is worst case scenario fill in the blank based on limited information. if the tank had that PG base it would be OP as ****, im fine with extra modules and no increase to pg/cpu, ill deal with that myself -6k dmg at 15 seconds? dem militia swarms

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7795	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:09:00 - [111] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Go home, IWS, you're drunk. Std tanks; 2/5 200k Adv, 3/6 800k Pro 4/7 1.5mil Boom. Awesomeness achieved. 4x rolled tungsten plates, 3X resist, top row remote armor reppers lock to your best friend in a similar fit tank. the corrected resistances effective the entire HP pool and not the base + armor skills max tank that can laugh off an entire team's worth of AV just about. Don't fit small turrets keep good comms with your spider buddies. Fit highest metalevel possible emphasis on self buffer inflation first. That would be about 70,000+ EHP with effective 1,100 EHP repaired per second Swarms only operate in about a 6k damage over 15 second time compression with travel accounted for which equals about 440 dps effective, You'll need pretty much the entire team to kill one tank in a usual engagement window and that is nowhere near guaranteed. This of course is worst case scenario fill in the blank based on limited information. if the tank had that PG base it would be OP as ****, im fine with extra modules and no increase to pg/cpu, ill deal with that myself -6k dmg at 15 seconds? dem militia swarms Shot Travel + Thumble + operation should empty out in 15 seconds with the new 1.4 changes.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1295	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:10:00 - [112] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. IWS.... where did you get touched because i fear you the are doomed dust 514. all tankers worth their salt have been asking for 3 rack (equipment slots or medium slots) and thats how tanks would increase w/ tiers. what you suggest is just well brain dead stupid. oh and standard tanks are 2/5 and 5/2 and amarr are armor tankers so they would be 3/4 and minmatar are shields so they would be 4/3.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 699	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:10:00 - [113] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And before you argue otherwise check the chart below. Madrugar Standard - 3 High 5 Lows Madrugar Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Madrugar Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Gunnlogi Standard- 5 High 3 Lows Gunnlogi Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Gunnlogi Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Hypothetical Amarr HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows. Amarr HAV Advanced - 4 High 5 Lows Amarr HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Minmatar HAV Standard - 4 High 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Advanced - 5 HIgh 4 Lows Minmatar HAV Prototype - 5 High 5 Lows Max Rack Size in Dust is 5. Now you're all smart people; tell me, why this up here is bad overall for the game? Also explain the chicken of the enforcer/marauders fitting into this as both of those classes already had a +1 slot from regular HAVs. Yeah, what I don't understand is why the max module size is 5...... and even if it is, you can look to just increasing the tanks base health or other attributes. That works equally as effective.
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 47	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:12:00 - [114] - Quote Marston VC > ccp's entire vehicle staff
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1295	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:16:00 - [115] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: Marston VC > ccp's entire vehicle staff i think that's like 3 people who only test using AV.
Crimson Judgment ROGUE SPADES EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:16:00 - [116] - Quote i don't mean to sound snobby or anything just saying IWS can i direct you to the last post on page 5 i put a lot of work time and thought in makeing that post and feel it was completely ignored because it was the last post on a page that nobody notaced thank you for your time and if you didn't read it because it was to long then i am sincerely sorry for the long post i don't like it when i put hard work into something and feel like it got ignored so once again i don't mean to sound snobby just saying
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7795	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:17:00 - [117] - Quote I am not the expert on Dust internal workings, I just know that currently the software as it is presented to the players only supports 5 slots max of any layer. There is the possibility it may impact lag, the whole reason why zipper didn't allow personalization in mag or so they claimed. We all know Dust 514 is CREST API powered which is why it takes 5 seconds to load the player board at times :P. As for increasing slot counts that is really up to CCP overall and that would involve very high up studio folks to change I believe as it would have to refactor just about everything from scratch again.
Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1204	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:19:00 - [118] - Quote Jason Pearson wrote: IWS, it's simple. Never give us tiers for tanks, but never give AV tiers either, give all of them different roles and counters, so a fast aerial vehicle, there is AV which can counter that such as an AA swarm launcher (Fires 6 weak missiles that are very fast) and if theres a slow Tank then theres a single shot missile that can do large damage but cannot lock on. King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here! Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here! gbghg wrote: CCP Rejavik CCP Shanghia Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step. I like
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7798	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:19:00 - [119] - Quote Crimson Judgment wrote: i don't mean to sound snobby or anything just saying IWS can i direct you to the last post on page 5 i put a lot of work time and thought in making that post and feel it was completely ignored because it was the last post on a page that nobody noticed thank you for your time and if you didn't read it because it was to long then i am sincerely sorry for the long post i don't like it when i put hard work into something and feel like it got ignored so once again i don't mean to sound snobby just saying Don't worry picking it apart now in a nice manner just give me a moment or to play it out real quick.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 699	Posted - 2013.08.27 19:24:00 - [120] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am not the expert on Dust internal workings, I just know that currently the software as it is presented to the players only supports 5 slots max of any layer. There is the possibility it may impact lag, the whole reason why zipper didn't allow personalization in mag or so they claimed. We all know Dust 514 is CREST API powered which is why it takes 5 seconds to load the player board at times :P. As for increasing slot counts that is really up to CCP overall and that would involve very high up studio folks to change I believe as it would have to refactor just about everything from scratch again. OK, I get you now. More slots = more variables for the machines to take account for = more lag. That's fine, but if that's the case, just take a proto tank and give it either more health, or PG/CPU or well...... theres actually a ton of things you could do that would simulate the effect of having extra module slots. If you remember. Back in the day dropsuits had higher base health on top of modules slots. Obviously that was a balancing issue so they fixed it, but if the only difference between a prototype tank and an advanced tank is sayyyyyy 1000 health, or maybe enough PG/CPU extra to fit another major module (repper, damage mod, ect....) then it really shouldn't be that imbalanced, if not that then not at all. I mean, im not a tank driver, but I do think that the whole "AV is OP" argument is getting old, and lets think about this for a moment. The current tanks would either be considered standard or Advanced tanks. These STD/ADV tanks are fighting prototype AV. Since when does a GEK beat a Duvolle? Not often, and I don't think its any different between tanks and AV right now either.



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