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ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 15:23:00 -
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I am starting to agree IWS.
So tiered weaponry, modules, and equipment are different as they provide more power at increased fitting cost. But the point there is the fitting cost.
However, tiered suits and vehicles frames are more power at the cost of isk. That is coming close to P2W.
I do think however that levels in 'suit/vehicle operation should be more substantial than they are now.
We need dropsuit tiericide. Its the only type of item that needs it tiers removed. Everything else can stay the same, as they offer more options for power vs cost. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
HAV gaping with prototype model in place would nearly be over 100%+ of a power gap between itself and standard. Infantry is no where near this bad.
Yeah but the prices are over 100% for an enforcer vs standard and the SP costs for it is as well, cant imagine what the price and SP cost would be for REAL adv tanks and proto tanks. There is also a limit on how many vehicals can be on the battlefield and no limit to AV. at this point in the game all serious PC forgegunners/swarmers have profficentcy 5 proto and damage modded AV, and many dozens of hundreds of players will by the time proto tanks are given to use, that is the maximum amount of damage possible for AV. They can still leave an extreemly hefty dent in a proto tank with that layout single handedly, what if there were 2 of such ppl? or 3? there is always more than one enemy running proto AV in todays pubs, nevermind months from now Don't ever balance for isk.
So true. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:28:00 -
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Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Because AV is also at proto level and we have basic vehicles
This is a really good point here.
You either have to have tiers for both or tiers for neither.
You could fairly easily tiericide AV in the same patch though. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:36:00 -
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Chances Ghost wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
HAV gaping with prototype model in place would nearly be over 100%+ of a power gap between itself and standard. Infantry is no where near this bad.
Yeah but the prices are over 100% for an enforcer vs standard and the SP costs for it is as well, cant imagine what the price and SP cost would be for REAL adv tanks and proto tanks. There is also a limit on how many vehicals can be on the battlefield and no limit to AV. at this point in the game all serious PC forgegunners/swarmers have profficentcy 5 proto and damage modded AV, and many dozens of hundreds of players will by the time proto tanks are given to use, that is the maximum amount of damage possible for AV. They can still leave an extreemly hefty dent in a proto tank with that layout single handedly, what if there were 2 of such ppl? or 3? there is always more than one enemy running proto AV in todays pubs, nevermind months from now Don't ever balance for isk. everything IS balanced for ISK explain the difference in price between militia, basic, adv and proto without balancing for isk.... you cant becuase they are balanced for it
The gear is balanced for fitting cost.
The suits are balanced for isk and its creating an ingame pay-to-win scenario. Dropsuit tiers are the whole reason why people are clamoring for tiericide in the first place. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caeli SineDeo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Caeli SineDeo wrote:Don't listen to IWS he just never knows what he is talking about.
He is a glorified secretory for CPM and when he tries to get out of that role he just babble stupid.
He does not relize tanks probably will not be proto because of slots it will be more of a passive boost from the tanks skills like they seem to be doint already. Funny because you guys haven't come up with anything concrete as to why its a good idea. There isn't too much tangibility in pro prototype argument outside of making an extraordinary broken tank. Design me an Prototype HAV on the current environment, prove people wrong. I DARE YOU. 2 seconds All races get tanks that are ment to speed tank. Less health then regular but they have increased mobility and speed allowing them to circle of death other tanks. You give missile and blaster turrets slower traverse speeds making it harder for them to keep up with these new tanks. These new tanks gain increased traverse speeds on turrets. so missile and blaster have the turn rate they do not making them able to be effective on this new speedy tank. Long range battles they will loose at but they will have their speed to get close the distance then be able to use it as defense. They can hit objectives hard and quick but are very suceptable to alpha damage. Wow there is a new proto tank that changes playstyle on the field and really is not that hard to make. Iron just becuase your peanut brain can not think of great ideas does not mean they are not out there. You change the slot lay out to benefit speed tanking
Sounds like a neat tank, but why does it have to be prototype? Why not make that a new tank frame instead? It can then be balanced in its own way instead of being some sort of pay to win prototype version of a basic tank thats not worth **** in comparison. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 16:56:00 -
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The Attorney General wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Funny because you guys haven't come up with anything concrete as to why its a good idea. There isn't too much tangibility in pro prototype argument outside of making an extraordinary broken tank.
Design me an Prototype HAV on the current environment, prove people wrong.
I DARE YOU.
Take the current Madrugar as standard. Advanced version: Same slot layout Add 2 CPU, 60 PG. Top Speed + 2% Acceleration + 5% Ammo Capacity +10% Prototype version: Advanced hull Add 1 CPU, 20 PG Turret Traverse +5% Profile -10% Ammo Capacity +5% None of those bonuses will break the lower tier tanks. A standard Madrugar would not be better off staying home, but a proto would be superiour in every way. Took me five minutes, while smoking a joint. What is the hold up in Shanghai?
Because here is how it actually works out.
Current madrugar frame = proto
Adv -
Subtract 1 CPU, 20 PG
Turret Traverse - 5%
Profile +10%
Ammo Capacity - 5%
Std Version
Apply nerfs from pro - adv
Subtract 2 CPU, 60 PG.
Top Speed - 2%
Acceleration - 5%
Ammo Capacity -10%
You always balance top down. All you're asking for is nerfs in the end. |
ZDub 303
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Posted - 2013.08.27 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:IWS, it's simple. Never give us tiers for tanks, but never give AV tiers either, give all of them different roles and counters, so a fast aerial vehicle, there is AV which can counter that such as an AA swarm launcher (Fires 6 weak missiles that are very fast) and if theres a slow Tank then theres a single shot missile that can do large damage but cannot lock on.
King of the Forums // Seraphim <3 Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!gbghg wrote:CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia
Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.
Yep, it looks like tiericide is making its way through all of dust.
I suspect we'll find that higher levels of AV operation skills will unlock specialized variants but no longer have a significant damage increase from tier to tier.
I always felt that a 10% damage increase between tiers was perfectly fine, and with some rebalancing of dropsuits down the line you'll find that the fitting cost for that higher alpha will come at the cost of modules.
The thing is, we can't have situations like the swarm launcher where you increase damage by 50% from std to proto... Going from 4 missiles to 6 missiles was a huge mistake. Hopefully they have learned their lesson.
But having swarms have the same number of missiles but do 270-300-330 between tiers, with increasing fitting costs (therefore diminishing returns on damage output/fitting cost) is a good thing. Higher AV alpha comes at the cost of tank (or should eventually). Its the same mechanic they are pushing for vehicles. Proto turrets are supposed to eat up a ton of fitting, so much so that you do it at the cost of being able to fit hp modules. Its the same premise in eve and the purpose of the fitting system in the first place.
If you want AV to no longer have tiers, then neither should turrets... and I personally find that boring. |
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