IWS I feel for you because you are going to get soooooooo chewed out by tankers.

If max rack size is stuck at 5 why not set it like this at end levels

Proto Gal tank

4 highs
5 lows
1 large gun
1 medium guns
2 small guns
whole load extra CPU/PG

Proto Cal Tank

5 highs
4 lows
1 large gun
1 medium guns
2 small guns
whole load extra CPU/PG


Yes, this would require medium guns first, but as I understand they are in development

Is that an official chart?
I'd say
Standard 2/5
ADV 2/6
Pro 3/6

would be more logical for the Armor tanks, reguardless I'm scared of what CCP think is a tank upgrade is 70 less HP, 200 less PG, 35% slower. In order to get slight buffs to only one type of turret.....oh yeah and $1,000,000 ISK extra for all that mighty crap.

What if prototype for vehicles (such as the enforcer) were just restricted to specializations (hear me out) as they are now.

What about a tank who has a large increase to powergrid to fit multiple large armor or shield modules, with the removal of the misc turrets to re-arrange it's job to taking damage as a mobile infantry cover.

Not saying this is the only idea, but it's a start on getting some ideas out there (not that they will ever be heard).

I'd say because it probably wouldn't be worth to use and probably cost a tonnnnnnn more.

PG's and CPU is what makes a tank, a madrugar proto will give 2 sh**s about moar high slots. That is what needs to be taken into consideration.

Increase the max amount of high/low slots for vehicals only so we can have better tanks and have meaning to spend the isk and Sp to get it, easy. Dropsuits dont need more than 5/5, but tanks do to fit the math of the tiers. also, if a proto tank has a significant amount of pg/cpu compared toour standard tanks then they would be able to fit things. Additionally, you can give proto and adv tank some built in natural resist or an additional built in rep in addition to what the player chooses to fit, alot of stuff

what do you mean by "nerfing everying in order to keep relative power layouts the same"? not sure what your getting at, can you explain that alittle plz?
I dont see a need to nerf anything, an adv tank should be better in every way than a standard tank and the same for proto tank vs adv. Dont need to nerf the standard tank bcuz the adv is better, just make the tanks better as you go through the tiers. Not nerfing stuff

Yeah but the prices are over 100% for an enforcer vs standard and the SP costs for it is as well, cant imagine what the price and SP cost would be for REAL adv tanks and proto tanks.
There is also a limit on how many vehicals can be on the battlefield and no limit to AV. at this point in the game all serious PC forgegunners/swarmers have profficentcy 5 proto and damage modded AV, and many dozens of hundreds of players will by the time proto tanks are given to use, that is the maximum amount of damage possible for AV. They can still leave an extreemly hefty dent in a proto tank with that layout single handedly, what if there were 2 of such ppl? or 3? there is always more than one enemy running proto AV in todays pubs, nevermind months from now

Also, like the attourney general is saying we dont need slots to balance the vehical. For example we could make the proto tank skill itself be "+10% movement speed, +7 shield passive resist, +20% active rep efficiency per level"
Or have built in aditional active mods that can be used by the poilt in addition to whatever he fills in his slots with, like an additional hardener, heavy rep or speed mod.
Or just straight up add 4000 shields/armor to the tank over standard/adv
or simply add another 30% resist to the tank base.
Dont need to rely on slots, just add stuff that will make a proto tank, a proto tank

no no wasent using the isk to balance it, its just another factor, a minor one. But surely you can come up with a better reply than that, look at everything im talking about the isk is the least of my concerns

How about you shut up because you seem to know nothing about vehicles and continue to push bad ideas through the door

okay then give us "tank that kicks alot of ass name here" class and make it feel like a proto tank. If proto tanks are so hard to make, then give us a tank that specialises in actually being effective, something that actually gets shiet done call it what you want whatever, something can be made that is a "proto tank"

If you want to destroy my tank get yourself a nice shiny DS with proto missiles and two gunners, I wont be able to touch you because my gun can't shoot high enough. Tank kill infantry, Infantry kill DS, DS kill tank. This of course depends on whether the DS is fitted with Blasters or the tank with Rail guns or a coordinated squad of proto AV.

When prices are based on 'just because' you really cannot balance around that idea. Also what are you going to do when they do remove adv and prototype from npc market making other players the sole source of said items by whatever means avialable?

No, you are trolling, because you are cherry picking and responding only to emotional posts, ignoring any other suggestions.

Frankly, if you wanted legitimate debate you would take the tone you have. You seem convinced that your way is the only way forward, so at this point we all might as well go along for the ride.

Sept 17 bitches. Sept 17.

Don't listen to IWS he just never knows what he is talking about.

He is a glorified secretory for CPM and when he tries to get out of that role he just babble stupid.

He does not relize tanks probably will not be proto because of slots it will be more of a passive boost from the tanks skills like they seem to be doint already.

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU BUT YOU WON'T LISTEN!!! MYSELF AND OTHERS THROUGH OUT THIS THREAD WTF

Can someone explain to me why prototype dropsuits are a good idea? Tiericide, bitches!

Another way of looking at tiers for tanks is that because vehicles come pre-tiercide, the current PG/CPU and slot allocations are proto and anything below proto will have a worse PG/CPU and slots. In short, tanks get a huge nerf from the applying tiers.

Iws. Srly, who cares? How about std, adv, and replace proto tanks with a specialized tank that is just as powerful? Okay, it's a problem that all would be proto tanks would have 5/5 and would be too simular so give it the extra built in mods, stat bonuses, resistances, speeds whatever! As long as it works out to make it significantly more effective than standard or advanced tanks. Calling it proto or a" specialized variant but not really proto" doesent matter as long as their solid tanks that get shiet done, like a "proto" tank would.
Also, you continue to ignore my statement about Increasing slot counts above 5. Giving proto tanks 7/5 respectfully would be okay because infantry will still be able to handle them, they have proficientcy 5, double/triple damage modded proto AV, the maximum amount of punishment possible in dust and they travel together in squads. They can handle a tank no problem

what is this term; teiricide, what does it mean? Also, of course tiers of tanks gets worse if their under proto, proto is the best. We curently have no proto tanks all we have is standard, so we would be improving tanks as we introduce new tanks untill we finally hit proto. I fail to see how adding ADV and proto tanks will nerf tanks

I play EVE, it's spreadsheets with a bunch of things you can do.

This is DUST. It's all the same, with minute differences that are hardly noticeable unless you put on your fan goggles and drink the punch. DUST is NOTHING like EVE, maybe it wants to be, but it is not. It is a feeble shadow of a successful relative, burdened with all the expectations and none of the realities.

DUST has a loooooooooooooooooong way to go before anyone can reasonably and realistically compare it to EVE, which will always be difficult because %'s don't translate as well into the FPS genre, since YOU are at the center of attention in such a game. Things have to be unique and meaningful or else people just gloss over it and instead of FoTM we wind up with builds that you have to skill into specifically over X amount of months so that way you can be accepted into PC and other game modes that probably won't be seen for another year.

Good luck with vehicles, it's an uphill battle to say the least.

okay, simple. Thank you for answering my question, im sorry im being an ass on your thread but you gotta work with us, cant ignore us buddy

Go home, IWS, you're drunk.

Std tanks; 2/5 200k
Adv, 3/6 800k
Pro 4/7 1.5mil

Boom. Awesomeness achieved.

if the tank had that PG base it would be OP as ****, im fine with extra modules and no increase to pg/cpu, ill deal with that myself
-6k dmg at 15 seconds? dem militia swarms

i don't mean to sound snobby or anything

just saying IWS can i direct you to the last post on page 5 i put a lot of work time and thought in making that post and feel it was completely ignored because it was the last post on a page that nobody noticed

thank you for your time and if you didn't read it because it was to long then i am sincerely sorry for the long post
i don't like it when i put hard work into something and feel like it got ignored so once again
i don't mean to sound snobby just saying

OK, I get you now. More slots = more variables for the machines to take account for = more lag. That's fine, but if that's the case, just take a proto tank and give it either more health, or PG/CPU or well...... theres actually a ton of things you could do that would simulate the effect of having extra module slots.

If you remember. Back in the day dropsuits had higher base health on top of modules slots. Obviously that was a balancing issue so they fixed it, but if the only difference between a prototype tank and an advanced tank is sayyyyyy 1000 health, or maybe enough PG/CPU extra to fit another major module (repper, damage mod, ect....) then it really shouldn't be that imbalanced, if not that then not at all.

I mean, im not a tank driver, but I do think that the whole "AV is OP" argument is getting old, and lets think about this for a moment. The current tanks would either be considered standard or Advanced tanks. These STD/ADV tanks are fighting prototype AV. Since when does a GEK beat a Duvolle? Not often, and I don't think its any different between tanks and AV right now either.

You should give up CPM for making a post like this. You're also not a vehicle operator.

What 5 modules would an armor HAV put in the highs? Can't get enough percentage from PG modules in the lows in a shield tank.

From the discussion I can see you're on-the-fence for all of the suggested stat tweaks.

Why not add built-in utility modules?

Maybe a 100% invulnerability for 3 seconds on a 1 or 2 minute timer (skill to bring it down)? If you see swarm or grenade spam, and you're good at timing the built in invulnerability, it'll actually feel like a tank for a few seconds.

OK I didn't read the hole thread, but after the first two pages I have a question and a suggestion. First for vehicles why does the definition of proto have to be slot layout? Why can't we give each HAV hull a bonus based on skill leave, plus a small slot increase/variety between different hulls. Like the enforcer havs they get a bonus to a specific weapons system, why couldn't some havs get a fitting bonus to say armor plates/shield extenders. Or even a rep/recharge bonus on another hull.

Honestly the options are pretty wide open, plus it gives a reason to skill past lvl 1 of your chosen hav racial skill. Have proto/adv levels of havs have better bonuses to justify there larger price tag plus a one to two slot increase depending on flavor.

Pretty close to tieraside.

PS: sorry posting from my tablet.

Edit: Plus like everybody else is saying its the power grid/CPU that really makes a difference anyways. I have a hard time believing you don't actually see this.

I'd rather CCP get rid of tiers entirely. Focus on making every item balanced and unique in the first place.

Since you posted this thread, IWS, I'm going to guess that you've had a convo with CCP Wolfman recently, and he mentioned that there wouldn't be vehicle tiers, or something along those lines. At least, I hope that's the case, because your point is pretty much moot: CCP could just increase global slot ceiling to 8 or whatever - not to mention that the vehicle bonuses and stats are what make the vehicle more than the slot count.

Maybe I'm just trying to read tea leaves while wearing a blindfold, but you don't usually post with giant holes in your argument... At least, from what I've read of your posts. So I'm just hoping there's more to it than making a poor argument.

almost forgot,,,

STD armor/shields - 2500
ADV armor/shields - 3000
Proto armor/shields - 3500