Lately I've been getting into it with Kujo because one of his members goes 20+ using the melee exploit. I argue this is cheating as it's a not intended feature used to win PC matches. He claims Exploiting is not cheating therefor, acceptable.

So I'm at a loss since we can't come to a conclusion. So I'm asking General Discussion. Is exploiting/glitching in PC considered cheating? I just want to finally lay this topic to rest and know more clearly which of us is right.

There's two types of exploits:

A. Using a glitch that abuses the mechanics of the game, giving you the advantage against other players that you wouldn't have without it. In this example, it's being used in PC to win battles, and those battles might not have been won without that exploit. Another example is the invisible glitch. This is cheating.

B. Using a combination of items or tactics, giving you an unfair advantage over other players that was unforseen by the developers. Examples of this were the Tac AR, Caldari Logistics, Flaylock pistol, Contact grenades, Dropship Missiles, etc. Like previously mentioned, this is unfair, but not cheating, because players using them are only doing so because they are "the best".

Exploiting in a game is OK as long as you are not using it to:
A. Win, causing someone else to lose
B. Affect another player in a way that wasn't planned

It's perfectly fine though to do things that only help yourself and don't affect others, like the fast reload thing or the repair tool exploit. It only becomes a problem when you use those extra warpoints to drop 5 orbitals on the other team by yourself, and the DEVs might not like it either.

But say in a game like Borderlands or Pac Man where you're not playing competitively, feel free to do whatever you like.

Well im pretty sure using a LAV to run people over is glitch as well. mainly because even ccp has posted patch notes to the effect that they are changing it. so to continue to use it would fall under your definition of cheating?

Anything that give you an "Unfair" advantage, that is outside the parameters that the Developers intended, is CHEATING. ;

- Exploits
- Glitches
- Hacks
- Hardware / Software Modifications

They all are considered Cheats, and are a Bannable offence... well... in "most" games.

in and of itself exploits are not cheating, but they are cheap moves to use.
they don't do the exploiter any justice either, considering if and when an exploit is fixed, they lose that crutch, possibly effecting they're overall performance in a match. my corp frowns upon its members using exploits, we are out right told not to use them and if we discover one to immediately report it to CCP.

I think the only times an exploit would be cheating is, if both teams before a match agree not to use it, and if CCP were to tell us until its fixed not to use it.

other than that its just dirty tricks and cheap shots imho....

Really not trying to be a **** here I just see it so often I cannot continue without saying something....

It's spelled invisible...

Oh and interesting use of the word "Infamous" there...

its no secret

and i dont speel gud :P i have better things to pay attention to then red squaggly lines on my computer moniter.


red squiggly lines cant tell me what to do, they arnt the boss of me :P

I can see your point I guess but why not just use an auto correct program?

You have good idea's from time to time and people will tend to take you a bit more seriously the better you can articulate your point..

so the infamous invisable shotgunners wont cheating because nobody told them they wernt aloud to?

I have seen people get this glitch by pure accident... perhaps im just uninformed but im not aware of a way to accurately reproduce it... if its accidental then no it isn't cheating if its intentional then its certainly very cheap to use this, but as I said it doesn't do the exploiter any good, because once fixed they once again have to rely on skill, which they have not been practicing by using such an egregious glitch and therefore suffer from its use. its cheap and its dirty and it does nobody any good, but rising to the level of cheating, imho id say no.

you can say no all you want, that doesnt change the fact that its cheating

what exactly WOULD be cheating to you if not being invisable

im only giving my opinion, as are you, lets not forget that

cheating would be... imo... somehow altering the code of the game, bots for instance, or stealing someones account info and transferring all their isk to your account. game glitches/bugs/exploits are not fun and can be game breaking, but it is technically within the confines of the games mechanics, intentional or not... really CCP makes that call and changes it/ fixes it when needed.

glitches ARNT within the confines of game mechanics

they are using errors in code

aka altering the code of the game

recreating a glitch is literally a process of creating errors

well I can see your very passionate about this...

as I stated earlier im in a corp that frowns upon the use of exploits and reports them, I also don't use them.

I think they cheapen the game, I don't think it does anyone any good, including the exploiter...

I also don't think it qualifies as cheating, more akin to poor sportsmanship.

we agree on the fact that exploits are bad... we just don't agree on the terminology to classify them... and that's ok

see the problem is we have to look at everything equally

so the mele glitch is on par with the invisability glitch.

and the novaknife charge sprint, invisable swarms (rendering glitch), nanite injector invulnerability, stacking afterburners on a dropship. and everything else thats a "glitch"

would all have to be concidered exploits and cheating

with identical consequences


currently the consequences are non exsistant.

In fighting games, the use of all glitches is considered fair play, even if the glitch gives an overwhelming advantage. This is because fighting games move so fast that the use of glitches can't really be actively policed. Also because it's bred into the community mentality.

...

All-in-all, this creates a community perception that glitches are fine, and anyone who cries "exploit" is just acting like a little girl who doesn't have what it takes to win.

On the developer end, very few developers regularly update their fighting game. This has changed recently, but there is usually a cutoff point where people just have to deal with the game as it is. And they are not going to police a game, ever. So this reinforces the community perception that its OK.

...


It is most definitely a glitch, and it can most definitely be "exploited" to get the win. And it is used constantly in that fashion. Nobody really wants to lose their character because they violated the EULA, so there are rules outside of the games code that must be followed to an extent. Assuming, of course, CCP is actually willing to step in and do the job they are supposed to be doing.

If not, then it is entirely acceptable for us to exploit it back.

The ball is in your court on that one, CCP.

issues of semantics

you cant really redefine what a word means... thats what dictionaries are for

to you it seems its impossable to cheat in an online game outside of breaking the law.....

yes, at least half the things you mentioned as cheating are in fact felonies



so do you have a middle ground where theres a level of cheating that isnt crime?

issues of semantics

it seems unless I agree with you completely im wrong....I didn't try to redefine the word cheating... im adding my opinion to what I think constitutes cheating in dust... ive already given you my parameters on this, if I gave you 10 more examples you would give me 10 more reasons why im wrong... like I said you are entitled to your opinion, I respect it, I just disagree.

Let's see where semantics might come in:

cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination

exploit: use (a situation or person) in an unfair or selfish way

glitch: a sudden, usually temporary malfunction or irregularity of equipment

Seems pretty straight forward to me.