CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

You that bad that you need others to rep you constantly?

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

You that bad that you need others to rep you constantly?

I am not a tanker so forgive my ignorance, but what is spider tanking?

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Jason ive done that

It does work in very situational roles, like for example if you got a chokepoint it works really well

Problem is tho is the maddy, its the super weak link depending how you fit it up

I got about 4-7 spider fits, some are good but require to be very aware for the entire game, ive had half the enemy team go AV to kill the target tank but if its adv or proto then it can just be too much depending how much of it ther is

It does work and ive tried it for a while, havnt lost many tanks as the target tank but as the spider you are generally weaker

If we did have a Logi tank, a proper yellow beast for this spider tanking then it would be great but yet again infantry would complain and would want it nerfed

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

You that bad that you need others to rep you constantly?

I believe the key to spider tanking is being able to hold your own solo but being able to work together, take the Hybrid for example, it's fitted with a Neutron Scattered, Heavy Reps and a Heavy Transporter to rep others, two of these can work by themselves for a little bit but against AV must join together as one.

When coming up against AV, one takes the lead, then falls back so that the other Tank takes his place, I saw this with three shield tanks once, except they simply switch who was repping on the lead tank (Triangle Formation), one person would put heavy reps on the tank, then when they run out the next reps would go on, all the while the Gunnlogi was slaying, the other two would hide behind a wall xD
]

Wow Chribba making a dig at someone else! This is unprecedented!

I'm just jealous I don't get repped like that, I sure could need it bc I'm terribad lol

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

You that bad that you need others to rep you constantly?

Think i saw a bunch of you in four seperate tanks running around... think it was Seraphim...
Anyway it was pretty cool, it forced us to designate targets...

Big problem to this tactic is that once the chain is broken.. you all go down pretty fast

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

From an AVer perspective:

I *love* this idea. I think it's a very deadly way for tanks to roll, and certainly won't be an easy one if multiple tanks are fitting/using reppers on each other. Great post.

My only real concern is that this will drastically beef up the tanks. Not from the HP perspective(that's a given), but more from a counter perspective. Right now, infantry does not have EWAR, which is one of the primary counters in EVE to spider tanking (Cap warfare, ECM). Therefore, an infrantry player has no way of canceling out the repair cycles once they've gone live. This means that a few tanks can sit there just focusing reps on the person getting damaged, negating *multiple* proto AV players (at least on paper). It's a very deadly tactic, and while I applaud it's conception, I just hope it does not 'go big' until CCP has introduced some EWAR modules to the infantry. The ability to cancel locks, or some other form of on-tank capacitor system (I really hope they do this - infinite capacitor on a tank seems silly) would be a great way to prevent this from getting over-used. A capacitor system especially would be very interesting to see, and I think would be a great start towards not only balancing great tactics like this (note I said BALANCING, not NERFING). Personally, the idea of a bricked out hybrid tank roaming around with 2 all out assault tanks, pushing reps on them is a crazy cool idea (Providing the functionality of a true "heavy" LLAV).

Carry on 'ol chap!

They're still vulnerable to alpha damage, and the gap between reps can prove fatal. It does take more AV to take them down (you're probably not going to solo them, for example) but it's no different, really to killing two protobears instead of one. Combined arms tends to be a good response; tankers frequently overextend to try to fight one of their own. Especially when they think they can mash it up easily.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

That fit while it is a spider tank relys on another spider tank with shield mods

Essentailly in 2 tanks ther is no target tank, a 3rd armor shield tank is needed for the triangle i think

While the shield is good if armor is breached and you have no rep you will be generally toast to a point plus with the 120 plate you do lose 800-1500 or armor but you have gained 2k of shield which can and does help with most forms of AV

I may try a similar fit if i get time due to the 'war' but maybe have a omni tanked madrugar as the target tank with 2 spider tanks backing it up keeping that shield as high as possible to reduce the damage

Plus with it being a armor tank auto ppl will swarm it and even then if shield is gone and breached depending on your fit you have enough armor to tank some more damage while you run or wait for reps and tech it maybe stronger than then gunlogi since you have both types of tank and it doesnt matter what gets hit

On paper not too bad, i still say if you can get 3 tanks doing around the same thing then it should work really well

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

I like this idea. It could destroy, and would require far more infantry to run in AV fits. Be nice if reppin gave you a bit of points though.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

Buffer fit gunnlogi>hybrid madrugar for teamwork vehicle play. Sure this works in pub matches but in PC matches it doesnt. And the guy who is in the logi lav doesnt even get a single WP for doing that job so its quite unpopular.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

wait wait wait wait wait. wait. So... madrugars shield tank better than shield tanks, too? Im done. F*ck it. Anyone want my stuff? im full speced into a shieeelddd tank!! you can use it to remote rep Jasons shield madrugar, but he prolly wont let you cuz he has a madrugar to remote rep him. They do that better than shield tanks too

Shield tanks are good they are just situational this spider tank formation can be broken up by Gunnlogis with missile turrets since they are only repping shields and shields dont rep while underfire you can hammer down on the spider tanks until they eventually pop. Which shouldnt take long once you start hitting armor. Plus piggy backing off each other means they are dependant on one another and cant travel very far without breaking the shielding tether. Force these tanks into breaking formation and thats all she wrote, now considering they well be going up against heavy AV resistance they most likely wont be using railguns they would need blasters or missiles. Missles will give them range but not accuracy and blaster will give them accuracy but not range. I believe 2 Gunnlogi tanks with Missles can easily become a problem for this formation. This triangle can only defend its self from one side at a time effectively. If you were to take two missle tanks and concentrate on one tank at a time you could easily mop these guys up so long as you keep your distance. Stay out of the reach of there blasters if they have missiles its not too much of a problem.

Id there happened to be 3 gunnlogis with missiles it would be overkill you could lead the formation toward the 2 gunnlogis and have the 3rd approach from the rear or he could railgun sniper the formation bating them into a choke point and the 2 gunnlogis finish them off.

Also the fact that they are using scatter blasters means they dont have range and are prone to overheat.

Cool story bro, gona tell it again? So 2v1 a tank at range and youl win, ya dont say? Im so enlightened. My point is armor tanks are superior to shields in every way. Apparently even shield tanking, i trust jason as a veteran tanker he knows what hes talking about

You that bad that you need others to rep you constantly?

Bad player complains about vehicle users adapting when its stuipdly easy to kill vehicles

Go figure

Think i saw a bunch of you in four seperate tanks running around... think it was Seraphim...
Anyway it was pretty cool, it forced us to designate targets...

Big problem to this tactic is that once the chain is broken.. you all go down pretty fast

Love this tank when I have someone else running the same fit and is on the ball calling out when reps are ready.

It's got nearly no resistances (Armor has either Hardener or Plating) but it's repping power is immense, with the Armor Reps capable of repping like 4500 Armor in seconds, and the Shields also being repped 4500 every 15 seconds this tank is beast, and when your Reps are down, pull back and let your buddy go forward for kills, when his reps are all down you switch out.

Under intense fire, make a retreat with both tanks spider repping, It's pretty cool to watch Swarms do **** all to a Madrugar :)

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King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

My only real concern is that this will drastically beef up the tanks.

Of course it's a concern, because that means the target tank can't be solo'd by ADV AV grenades.

wait wait wait wait wait. wait. So... madrugars shield tank better than shield tanks, too? Im done. F*ck it. Anyone want my stuff? im full speced into a shieeelddd tank!! you can use it to remote rep Jasons shield madrugar, but he prolly wont let you cuz he has a madrugar to remote rep him. They do that better than shield tanks too

if you have a spider tank behind a proper fit mad or gunloggi it wont die, even against a full team of av, while standing still
i did like for 11 games straight last night and several proto swarms in each match

My point is that you dont know what shield tanks are intended for when you pick a shield tank whats harder to fit blaster or missles. Blasters take up more PG which shield tanks dont have and Railguns can take down anything at a distance they use less PG than Blasters. When you pick a shield tank what do you get by default a railgun so you have to come to two conclusions when picking a shield tank do you want to destroy installations or destroy dropships. Because Blasters are for infantry its the best way to counter Av players not a Missile turret or Railgun correct? So what makes you think youre even suppose to shield tank a gunnlogi. If you look at your modules your shield resistance mods take up more cpu than armor resistance mods and your shield resistance cost more sp to lvl than armor resistance mods correct. Every thing about the shield tank is about gaining more CPU. Why is this because missile turrets and railgun turrets use a lot of Cpu if you put resistance turret rotation shield reps and a nirtos with missile turret and possilibly 2 local diagnostic pg youll have a nice fit.

These maddy's are doing fine with 3000k shields you think your suppose to but 6000k shields on your gunnlogi maybe to Railgun snipe.

Now Maddys work well with shields because maddys are designed for close ranged combat thats why they have lots or armor lots of pg more speed they are ment to be up close and personal. Range is their weakness If they fit railguns they give up resistance dps and armor. All in favor of range they lose the ability to defend themselves from Av effectively and find that the safest way to play is on the redline.

Oh and when they play the redline game thats when you could lose your shield tank to railguns but railguns if you counter the maddy railgun with resistance and heat sinks it becomes a game of who gets the last hit its pretty even between the two.

It's a high-level tactic; you're not likely to see this in pubs. I know I could never run something like this, cos my playtimes being what they are, I don't see many other tankers, and certainly none with heavy investment into both armour and shield tanks.

How's this for a Gunnlogi fit? Take video of it in action, because you should try it-
STD missile
60mm steel plate
Light IG-L
active heat sink
nitro boost
2 small blasters
2 light azeotropic shield extenders
1 shield hardener

The concept of 'Alpha' sounds great on paper, but in reality is a bit trickier than that.

A Heavy with 2 Complex Damage Mods(The most they can carry right now), and a Proto Breach Forge Gun with Level 4 Proficiency does 3,582 damage(rounded up), before damage reduction. We'll use that as a damage baseline, because any other gun would require far too many people on a team with Prototype AV to provide enough 'Alpha'.

We'll use the Mardrugar used in the OP as the 'Target', with 3000 shields and 5000 armor. We'll also assume he is a good tanker, and has his inherent 10% damage reduction from Skills. We will assume NO HARDENERS are active as well, for the sake of hopefully securing the kill. Normally, a Mardrugar would have 2 hardeners running, but I don't know if his fit forgoes those to get the Remote Rep setup w/ local rep that he's talking about.

Breach Forge Gun Shot 1
3582 - 715(-20% = Shield Inherent -10% to Hybrid + -10% Skill Reduction) = 2867 Total Damage to Shields
Tank HP = 133 Shields / 5000 Armor
Breach Forge Gun Shot 2
3852 - 162(Remaining Shields, -20% = Shield Inherent -10% to Hybrid + -10% Skill Reduction) - 3692 (To Armor, 0% - Armor Inherent +10% from Hybrid + -10% Skill Reduction) = 3692 Total Damage to Armor
Tank HP = 1308 Armor
Breach Forge Gun Shot 3
Destroys Tank(Overkill by 2544 damage)

This is about the most reasonable end of the spectrum I could envision, which you *might* see in a pub game. And yes, I will talk pub game about this, because that's where you're likely to see this sort of stomp-tactics(And PC has OB's and team-wide coordination, which makes the alpha much more of a possibility)

So First, you need 3 Heavies with clear LOS, Proto Breach Forge Guns, 2 Complex Damage Mods, and Proficiency 4. This is a tall order, and requires quite a bit of specialization to begin with.
Next, you need them to all be on the same team, and somehow be coordinated enough to get shots off within 1-2 seconds of each other, which requires Comms. Not something you will see in a Public Match, and also not something you see in most Premade Squads(I've only ever rolled with 1 other Forge Gunner at a time).

While it looks great and doable on paper, the reality is that your average player only has STD or ADV AV, which does not give access to Breach forge guns, and has about half the damage output listed above. That would mean it would require roughly 6 players (Possibly 7, I don't have the ADV forge values in front of me) packing ADV forge guns to output the same damage as the 3 Breach Forge Guns above. Coordinating 3 players is hard - coordinating 6 is downright insane. Additionaly, this is a LARGE chunk of your team! Even IF you could get the players together to do it, you are leaving them very vulnerable to standard infantry, unless the rest of the team is dedicated to running interference(which would of course mean the objective is WIDE open for the other team).

And finally, the numbers above do not include Hardeners. If the enemy tank is running hardeners, it can easily push the number of people required to 4, with the same stats as above(Proto AV, Level 4 Prof, Breach).

I don't even think it's possible with Swarms due missile travel time, and the fact that the other tanks can intercept the missiles, spreading out the damage(especially considering how close you need to be to spider tank in the first place), and Grenades have a cycle time between throws - plenty of time(for a good tanker) to activate the local rep and bug out before the other grenades dropped. Not to mention how many people have to be swarming the tank with Proto Nades in order to achieve the necessary level of alpha (Hint: ALOT! :) ).

Light Converse Shield Transporter
Recharge per Pulse: 125.0 HP (Total = 1875HP regen per use)
Pulse Interval: 15.0 s
Number of Pulses: 1
Cooldown: 15.0 s

You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.

Shield tanks are good they are just situational this spider tank formation can be broken up by Gunnlogis with missile turrets since they are only repping shields and shields dont rep while underfire you can hammer down on the spider tanks until they eventually pop. Which shouldnt take long once you start hitting armor. Plus piggy backing off each other means they are dependant on one another and cant travel very far without breaking the shielding tether. Force these tanks into breaking formation and thats all she wrote, now considering they well be going up against heavy AV resistance they most likely wont be using railguns they would need blasters or missiles. Missles will give them range but not accuracy and blaster will give them accuracy but not range. I believe 2 Gunnlogi tanks with Missles can easily become a problem for this formation. This triangle can only defend its self from one side at a time effectively. If you were to take two missle tanks and concentrate on one tank at a time you could easily mop these guys up so long as you keep your distance. Stay out of the reach of there blasters if they have missiles its not too much of a problem.

Id there happened to be 3 gunnlogis with missiles it would be overkill you could lead the formation toward the 2 gunnlogis and have the 3rd approach from the rear or he could railgun sniper the formation bating them into a choke point and the 2 gunnlogis finish them off.

Also the fact that they are using scatter blasters means they dont have range and are prone to overheat.

My point is that you dont know what shield tanks are intended for when you pick a shield tank whats harder to fit blaster or missles. Blasters take up more PG which shield tanks dont have and Railguns can take down anything at a distance they use less PG than Blasters. When you pick a shield tank what do you get by default a railgun so you have to come to two conclusions when picking a shield tank do you want to destroy installations or destroy dropships. Because Blasters are for infantry its the best way to counter Av players not a Missile turret or Railgun correct? So what makes you think youre even suppose to shield tank a gunnlogi. If you look at your modules your shield resistance mods take up more cpu than armor resistance mods and your shield resistance cost more sp to lvl than armor resistance mods correct. Every thing about the shield tank is about gaining more CPU. Why is this because missile turrets and railgun turrets use a lot of Cpu if you put resistance turret rotation shield reps and a nirtos with missile turret and possilibly 2 local diagnostic pg youll have a nice fit.

These maddy's are doing fine with 3000k shields you think your suppose to but 6000k shields on your gunnlogi maybe to Railgun snipe.

Now Maddys work well with shields because maddys are designed for close ranged combat thats why they have lots or armor lots of pg more speed they are ment to be up close and personal. Range is their weakness If they fit railguns they give up resistance dps and armor. All in favor of range they lose the ability to defend themselves from Av effectively and find that the safest way to play is on the redline.

Oh and when they play the redline game thats when you could lose your shield tank to railguns but railguns if you counter the maddy railgun with resistance and heat sinks it becomes a game of who gets the last hit its pretty even between the two.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

wat

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He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results.

CCP Rejavik
CCP Shanghia

Same company different studios, one has near perfected the player feedback process, the other is still rolling on the floor after it fell over its first baby step.

The problem is, the Madrugar beats the Gunnlogi in every field. Missiles are atrocious weapons that need a buff (ever since that triple nerf hammer it's been **** :/ ) Why pick a Gunnlogi to rail gun? My Madrugar does it better, has more HP and repping ability, and still has the ability to put two damage mods on.

Seriously bud, stop pretending, Gunnlogis will lose in every situation against a Madrugar (Unless the Madrugar is stupid enough to fit Missiles xD, even then it outreps you and runs away.)

---

King of the Forums // Seraphim <3
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!