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Why we should have Respecs: Vet Perspective

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Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 151	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:11:00 - [31] - Quote xSaloLx wrote: The benefit of a respec is that it shows these imbalances almost immediately, whereas it might take weeks or months for people to be able abuse them anyway. "The benefit of a respec is that everyone can spec into/out of FoTM immediately, and I (the average merc) don't have to worry that I didn't think ahead and conserve SP before I do it myself." This man is your god.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 196	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:21:00 - [32] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: This "Tiericide" seems an intriguing notion, but it begs the query that this "Specialization" you propose is what we already have, but with less of a gap.....which entails "Tiers", thus negating the initial intention of "Tiericide". My understanding of this may be vague at best.....but wouldn't true "Tiericide" entail only having variations and no "Tiers"??? Wouldn't that essentially be like most base shooters and not an MMO (Equipment determines playstyle and nothing more)??? Nonetheless....either of the 2 changes would require a rather extensive overhaul that would take an enormous amount of time, thus still validating the necessity for Steps 1 & 2 of my presented proposal. In order to better facilitate the testing phase it is necessary to have ample "Breathing Room". Specialisation will mainly occur through passive skill bonuses and picking a variant of a weapon. So instead of picking an assault rifle because you like mid-range combat, there will be a variant with a red dot sight in exchange for less hipfire accuracy so you are truly specialised into mid-range combat, but have a weakness at CQC. At the moment, there is NO weakness going up in tiers for dropsuit items. A GEK is overall better than the standard AR. Tiercide implements strengths, but also weaknesses. Also, I forgot to mention that modules will retain maybe 2 tiers, or stay how they are. So yes, it's not true tiercide. (note: this model for tiercide is simply what is the most supported by the community at the moment.) This essentially means some people will still have an advantage over others, but yes, it'll be a little less pronounced than the advantage currently. This is to satisfy those who want to have a clear advantage over newbies because they've played for longer (which I feel is a little selfish, but that's pure opinion) but also so that newbies can get into the game without being separated in an Academy which totally defeats the meaning of persistent universe as well. As this would only slightly diminish the traditional MMO development stigma I can see why this would be desirable from an FPS standpoint. It would somewhat diminish the monetization of a Free-to-Play MMOFPS.....so I believe that CCP would not choose to go this route for DUST 514 (Speculative Assumption). Although, as a well-rounded hardcore gamer myself, I respect the competitive aspect of "Gap Flattening". Had this been a subscription based title I would say it would be very possible & highly desirable.....but alas it is not
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7355	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:30:00 - [33] - Quote DCUO maxes out at 16 hours game time, argument example entirely invalid. Respecs are offered as they're more convenient to not hassel a player to not start a new character to experience the game in another fashion.
THE GREY CARDINAL PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 199	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:31:00 - [34] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: Knocking on 20 mill SP here and so I think I could be classified as a vet. Here's a pearl of wisdom that has been finely refined over the course of my merc career: spec into what you want to play, not FotM. Seriously...if people did this you wouldn't need respecs. I'm full on proto gallente logibro with every single skill under DS core upgrades maxed, now I'm moving on to vehicle core upgrades and will be a gallente LLAV and LDS pilot (the power of OCD compells me to train whatever has 'logistics'on it). I have ALL of my SP 100% exactly where I want it, and I know exactly where the next 6 months of SP is going (literally, I have the list of skills ordered by priority :P). I love my merc and have no insecurity over my SP allocation. You guys aren't getting respecs...you need to let go of this dead horse and just smarten up. You misunderstand the concept..... We still have yet to attain what was initially presented & promised at launch. An example of this would be the Pilot Dropsuit. As a Vehicle Pilot I am personally at odds with this situation as I have been driven off the path to my initial goal due to lacking said content, and even diminishing/removal of content (IE: Removal of Black Ops "Prototype" HAVs & Prototype "Advanced" HAVs). So in order to maintain ample functionality on the battlefield via dropsuit option I have specialized into Minmatar Logistics, thus making use of the SVER BPO. It may be argued that the Minmatar Logistics specialization was a "Choice", yet what of the Scouts and Heavies who have been presented with no such option??? Is it "Fair" that the Medium Dropsuit specializers not only were provided such options, but were presented with a Respec twice to feel out their newfound options??? (I know this because I went from Caldari Tanker to Caldari Logistics to Gallente Tanker in a matter of roughly 1-2 Months "post-launch".....) It may also be stated that 1 of those 2 Respecs were based upon the changes to the skill tree. But.....isn't it blatantly obvious that the skill tree will once again be altered/revamped??? With the issue of majorly altered bonuses, lacking of bonuses & function (IE: Level 4-5 of Dropsuit Command, Vehicle Mobility, etc. having no unlock nor associated bonus, thus creating a TRUE "SP Sink), and overall misintegration after the separation of Dropsuit & Vehicle Skill Sectors.....I forsee indefinite and extreme skill tree revamping in the near future. So is this not a justification for an intended Respec??? I'm glad you selfishly enjoy your unintended launch content Respec into Gallente Logistics, and I applaud your contentness with your "Choice" considered the fact you would have initially been stuck with the SVER BPO, Logistics Starter Fit, or at max Logistics vk0/vk1 (vk1 being essentially Minmatar Logistics GASP). But to you I say this "Dead Horse" has in fact "Smartened Up", and you have thusly been deemed Irrelevant. Thank you for not contributing to this discussion, your feedback is not welcome. PS: You are not a Vet unless you were in Closed BETA for quite some time (E3/Replication for example. You are simply a Seasoned Newberry If CCP deem a respec necessary due to skill tree revamp etc, that's fine. What isn't is short sighted noobs speccing into short sighted areas that they don't really care for (FotM). The lack of dropsuit variants is part and parcel of being into a game that is a work in progress. If you wanta completed product, go buy a retail FPS game, CCP doesn't owe you anything. Well, I'm a happy merc, you're not...so I win. With each game I move further along with my training goals while you sit here hoping for that which will probably not happen (though you may catch a lucky break via CCP warranting respec). Also, I have been here since E3 build.
Oscar Neymar Dogz O War D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 4	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:47:00 - [35] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: I'm a 22 Mil SP, 600 Mil ISK, Top 50 Killboard, Top 20 WP Board, Tanker Main w/ Minmatar Logi Sub who dabbled in Caldari Logi OP TAC AR Hacked EXO FOTM for ***** 'n giggles (All on just this Character). You obviously did not learn reading/comprehension if you are making these utterly ignorant assertions. You even further validate my point in your final "paragraph". You must also be new to DUST 514 if you did not know these facts and are now entitled to a Respec. You provided nothing valid to this discussion and have thusly been deemed Irrelevant Now where was that trumpet of mine I wanted to blow
Kalante Schiffer Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 386	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:50:00 - [36] - Quote do you know how i feel wasting over 1,000,000 million sp on useless skills such as the AR PG optimization that doesnt do anything and other useless stuff? it is completely ridiculous. i wish i had my sp back. i dont know why people think that respects is a bad idea. this game is not even finished yet.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 340	Posted - 2013.08.16 10:51:00 - [37] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Karl Koekwaus wrote: So you are saying that you have trouble figuring out how the skillpoint system works. You do know you can train multiple races of suits and you can even train both Assault AND logistics of suits, you don't need a respec to try something different, you can just train it. also; Vets aren't the ones who benefit most from respecs, since they have enough skills to train multiple races and weapons anyway. Respecs are only nice for those who can't train a single suit up to lvl 3 with the appropriate gear and weapons. I'm a 22 Mil SP, 600 Mil ISK, Top 50 Killboard, Top 20 WP Board, Tanker Main w/ Minmatar Logi Sub who dabbled in Caldari Logi OP TAC AR Hacked EXO FOTM for ***** 'n giggles (All on just this Character). You obviously did not learn reading/comprehension if you are making these utterly ignorant assertions. You even further validate my point in your final "paragraph". You must also be new to DUST 514 if you did not know these facts and are now entitled to a Respec. You provided nothing valid to this discussion and have thusly been deemed Irrelevant Im glad you have all the time in the world to get 22 mil. we don't have the glorious luxury
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 197	Posted - 2013.08.16 11:15:00 - [38] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: DUST will never be a finished product like EVE will never be a finished product so having an "unfinished" game isn't a good argument. Refunding SP will not help with enjoyment, player retention, or entice new players to start and stay. Refunding will only make the game seem different for a short while and the same cycle of boredom will continue. Our problem is lack of content. All racial suits, weapons and vehicles would solve many problems. PvE is another major step to keeping players around. Flavor of the month builds will always be here and our job as players is to provide feedback that can be used to help ensure that the fotm is not op. Flavors are good and show that the community is able to adapt and learn what is good. Tiericide was used in EVE to bring ships of the same size more in line with each other and allow lower SP pilots to fly a different ship in the same tech level. Instead of having to wait to level 5 skills to fly a frigate one can now fly any t1 frigate with lvl 1 skill and then the pilot can put more SP into that ship type to make it better. This game isn't that difficult to learn and almost all information is available in the description of the item or skill. EVE's skill sets make this game look like pacman and if someone was to ask for a respec they would be laughed out of the game. This is CCP's game and their vision, we we invited to play and provide feedback to help progress and better the game not fundamentally change it by brow beating developers into changes that we want. This game will never be as popular as many other fps because it is different. They didn't add zombies and calm it new or and better sounds and make you pay $60 again. The only things that will draw players in and keep us here is good content. No other gimmick is going to work because the people who want this game don't want another bland, pointless and repetitive shooter. We have that now and it sucks. We want something different. Want to make this game better? Then provide positive feedback that actually addresses a problem instated of a one sentence post calling CCP stupid. Play the stupid game and have fun. Skill into what you like not what is the best at the moment. Expect nerfs and buffs. Realize the game will never be finished and that there is no "end game" so complaining about how the game is unfinished is like complaining about water being wet. Content, content, and more content is what is needed. Everything else will work out later if we have something to do. Stagnation and boredom is killing us and nothing else. Buffs and nerfs do not change the player count and the reallocation of SP will only help for a few days and long winded diatribes like this one do very little. Play for fun and play other games, this isn't a second job. The game has seen marked improvement in every area and we are just now getting to the good stuff, let's not screw it up by changing our focus onto a gimmick that will not help us in the long run. My posts are far from "One Sentence".....and I presented my ideas as clear & concise as humanly possible. I completely agree that we are severely lacking in content, and that is a problem indeed. Had you digested the post instead of skimming through haphazardly you may have found that I noted this as an issue. Providing a Respec is not as resource intensive as you make it out to be. It does not halt game development progress. Sure.....the rather burdensome (On both ends.....) process of that 2nd "Optional Respec" was resource intensive simply because CCP opted to force GMs to unnecessarily sift through Support Petition Tickets in order to Respec on a case-by-case basis. This is not what I proposed at all..... If you take note of precedence then you would understand why a mass Respec should happen, at least once, upon the skill tree revisions/fixes. Also note the precedence of the partial SP Respec when Dropsuit SP cost was lowered, and you only needed Level 3 Basic to get to Specialization. So when Racials & Vehicle Tiers are brought in line, & SP Sinkholes are remedied, then.....& only then should your particular "EVE HTFU" line of thought apply. This is a Free-to-Play model MMOFPS, not a Subscription Model Spreadsheet Spaceships MMORPG. They simply cannot, and should not, be handled in the same manner. These presented situational mass & partial Respecs are absolutely necessary until the fundamentals are established. This is not an "In place of" solution but an "In conjunction with" proposal..... And as a Tank Main.....it is a job/chore since anyone on my team can essentially halt my progress, diminish the value, increase risk, decrease reward (All while they get "Carried" to Risk-Free WP/SP/ISK), and disable functionality (Recall, fire at air or turret emplacements thus generating Aggro, refuse to exit when you wish to swap fits, etc.) This happens waaaaaay too often and it is killing off this player's "Retension". And not having the Pilot Dropsuit (Which was promised/intended at launch) to skill into doesn't help either. Heck.....having to deal with being forced into a 2-Tier gap disadvantage doesn't exactly promote a healthy environment. I can go on for days.....but at the end of the day EVE and DUST are 1 side of a different coin each respectively and must be treated as such. 2 different monetization models, 2 different genres, and 2 entirely different playerbases. You cannot hand a Vegan Jew a Pork Chop and expect smiles..... You toss them a Mayin Chaim Soda with a Kosher Dill Pickle & send 'em off with a smile
pierce Hawkeye BurgezzE.T.F 93	Posted - 2013.08.16 11:27:00 - [39] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Since most Forumers only read the Opening Post I have decided to Repost this to generate Feedback: DCUO has paid Respecs so it is not unfathomable.....but I prefer not to advocate this route. Everyone claiming "This is EVE/New Eden HTFU!!!!!" are ignorant to the fact that this is soooooooooo far removed from that..... 1st & foremost it is an FPS, partially developed with MAG associates, & that had "Earned Respecs" over time/gameplay. DUST also lacks the substance to grant it MMO status. There is no meaningful interaction between DUST & EVE. The vast majority of the skill tree is ever-changing & vastly unfinished (SP Sinks where final 2 Levels offer no unlock/bonus). Promised launch content is missing. Core functions/mechanics are either not present or buggy. Player market is unavailable to even determine value of loot. There is almost no balance or player retension incentive. Marketplace items/statistics are still disgustingly flawed. And I won't even bother mentioning how vehicle functions are punished & unrewarding b/c I could write a dissertation on this subject alone..... Technically.....until the core mechanics, balancing foundation, PvE & other launch promised content, DUST-to-EVE & vice versa interactions, player market, vehicular function/protection, skill tree foundation to eliminate SP "Sand Traps", and even racial variants of current suits/vehicles (Including Pilot Dropsuit) are in place......we are still in BETA testing mode and it should be treated as such (Minus RESET as this would utterly kill player retension at this point.....) This all points to 1 fact.....this is not yet an MMOFPS, it is a BETA for a Lobby Shooter. Considering the above facts/factors I would like to propose this: 1. Respec of Lifetime SP every 2-4 months (Depending on time between major content additions/alterations) until the core fuctionality, promised gear/vehicles, and skill tree are presented in full to promote the testing aspect. 2. Respec of Lifetime SP 1 more time immediately after DUST is determined to at least be lobby shooter competent & initial content complete, with a functional skill tree and core balancing foundation in place. 3. Respec of Lifetime SP every 1 year (Stackable at this point) to promote longevity and slight experimental flexibility to alter the Meta, thus keeping DUST feeling "Fresh" over time. And 1 Lifetime SP Respec for new players within 30 days of exiting a properly structured Battle Academy. (Allows ample time to research & ask for build advice via community, as per any MMO) I feel that these steps would be beneficial to the longevity of this title as it would bolster player retension. The arguments against it fall flat in the grand scheme of things. Some say that this will only promote "FOTM Chasers", and while that may be true it also is not hurting anyone but themselves. In the grand scheme of things we would get to experience the "other side of the fence", test the changes out, provide more frequent feedback on various intergrations without feeling "Punished", and pave the way to a final & true DUST 514. When we enter "Step 2" you may see some "FOTM Chasers".....but they only hurt themselves & their team. At this point there should be a sense of balance in place, and an "Escape Route" in the form of PvE. Example....a team of "FOTM Chasers" sporting Caldari Assault/Logi Dropsuits with ARs & Flaylocks go up against a team of Mixed Races/Gears. The sheer flexibility of a well-balanced cohesive team playing to eachother's weaknesses/strengths will get objectives faster, offset/negate the FOTM gear/weapon system, bait 'n switch tactics (Has Gallente Armor w/ AR bait Caldari Shield AR into fight w/ Caldari Shield with SCR/Laser, etc), & many other Meta-building strategies that make the "FOTM Chasers" essentially pointless, hence "Punished". At "Step 3" we now have a well-defined baseline and allow the "Punished FOTM Chasers" to fix their mistake after 1 year. All while also allowing everyone else to choose wether or not to alter their path, or bank their Respec, allowing for more diversity overall thus changing the Meta and providing the ever-changing combat we were once promised. We must look past the "This is New Eden/EVE" factor as we move forward if we are to hope for survival in this market. We cannot compare a subscription based pure spreadsheet MMORPG to what is to be a free-to-play MMOFPS. Though they may be set in the same Universe they are 2 entirely separate "Beasts", and should be "Tamed" according to their respective behaviors. We do not teach a turtle to jump just as we do not coax a penguin to fly, nor an ant to swim Brilliant
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.08.16 11:44:00 - [40] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: If you believe a company does not have to be "apologetic" for a fatal flaw (IE: My baby carriage is faulty, malfunctioned, and my baby is dead)....then you sir are a rather uninformed, complacent, intellectually lacking, and terrible consumer/customer. Also read my previous response above this one in regards to yet another ignorant poster who assumed wrong as to my SP investments. These 2 points are indefinitely Irrelevant to the discussion. On the AUR per 1 year Respec I can agree as this would generate revenue for CCP without a frequency that entails "Pay-to-Win", should it be accepted by the majority. This would fit decently into Step 3 of my proposal. There is still no valid argument to devalue/alter Steps 1 & 2, as you surely have presented Nil in those regards. If I research until I understand a product that I'm putting money into, and then spend an exorbitant amount of time learning that product in and out so that I can execute it to mastery I am a terrible consumer Oh huh the reviews for this baby carriage are awful and the company that makes it is not very reputable for putting out quality products and because buying a baby carriage is of the equivalent level of importance to what I do in a free-to-play game I asked around and everyone tells me not to buy it I will go with another product instead. My child isn't dead and and as an ironically morbid metaphor my online video game character is happy and well off. It is a matter of responsibility, but I suppose people who play video games aren't expected to have a lot of it. I am STILL laughing at "intellectually lacking". It's like I'm in middle school again. Edit: I responded to 1 and 2 in my first sentence. A product may or may not be noted of its flaws until sometimes many years after its production/release cycle. It may very well get boastful reviews and be sung songs of praises & honor until, on that fated day, the evils of said product come to light. You are rather shortsighted, like a horse with blinders, in not seeing the big picture as this scenario has been proven relevant time & again. EVE players, more often than not, provide ample E-Peen stroking for the CCP "Sweet Release. CCP makes DUST 514 and the Kool-Aid has set in so deep that those wide-eyed fanboys accept their *****-dipped fellatio sessions with a grin & a nod. As "Outsiders" we "Pure DUSTers" can objectively view the state of the game & take a look at the bigger picture. It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to see into the future, but to live in the moment, hope for the best, and fight for what we believe is right en masse. As for your "Edit" you provided nothing substantially constructive, nor destructive, in your first sentence.....thusly Invalidating said feedback. You have been learned

Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.08.16 11:47:00 - [41] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: xSaloLx wrote: The benefit of a respec is that it shows these imbalances almost immediately, whereas it might take weeks or months for people to be able abuse them anyway. "The benefit of a respec is that everyone can spec into/out of FoTM immediately, and I (the average merc) don't have to worry that I didn't think ahead and conserve SP before I do it myself." This man is your god. And you are his Troll
Captain-Awesome Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 478	Posted - 2013.08.16 11:52:00 - [42] - Quote I am both for and against respecs. I think there are 2 reasons as to why we need them: 1. New players / weapons (aka a lack of understanding to the skills we attain) This is because we haven't "tested" the desired effect on our characters and thus have no way of knowing the impact it has on the field. 2. New builds introduce changes to items and our experience with the game When a tac AR is no longer a viable solution, the flaylock is no longer as effective as it used to - changes to an item you once thought was "normal" is no longer. I think there are also reasons NOT to have respecs. or at the least, full respecs. Skill spending loses value if you can just "respec" at a given point and the value and importance of training should always be a carefully planned process, at the moment we are earning crazy amounts more than eve players, with a ton of resets already (we are not in beta, we just think it's so bad it's like a beta) I would rather (as you said) respecs for those under 5 million sp - but I wouldn't say unlimited, I would think 10 is enough I would then say a refund of all skills that are affected by changes in an upcoming build. I think that we need to stop saying "the game is in beta" and more "Item A,B and C" are still in beta... because they are. The game is classed as release, but when untested and constantly changing items are apparent, we need to put our hands up and say "ok, we are released, but some things are still in beta phase". That beta phase is what we should be refunded on.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.08.16 12:03:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DCUO maxes out at 16 hours game time, argument example entirely invalid. Respecs are offered as they're more convenient to not hassel a player to not start a new character to experience the game in another fashion. DCUO has Raids/Alerts & other PvE instances, multiple Skill Point challenges, Loot Drops, seasonal content, the list goes on.....just for PvE. Then there's PvE and its similarly associated grinds. DCUO also went pay-to-win in every aspect.....which is why I quit after also being a BETA Founder & one of (If not THE) top Mental Controller/DPS in both PvE & PvP, noted for being a staple amongst the top Villain Leagues. I'd rather not watch this "Crash & Burn" as I really want to love this title & make it my home. But I suppose there's always Metal Gear since Hideo Kojima has yet to let me down..... So not only are you Irrelevant to DUST 514.....but now DCUO???? I assume to gaming in general at this point..... Also, you presented a "Double Negative" in your above lack of feedback..... Are you Irrelevant in any other languages??? Do tell
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 198	Posted - 2013.08.16 12:08:00 - [44] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: Knocking on 20 mill SP here and so I think I could be classified as a vet. Here's a pearl of wisdom that has been finely refined over the course of my merc career: spec into what you want to play, not FotM. Seriously...if people did this you wouldn't need respecs. I'm full on proto gallente logibro with every single skill under DS core upgrades maxed, now I'm moving on to vehicle core upgrades and will be a gallente LLAV and LDS pilot (the power of OCD compells me to train whatever has 'logistics'on it). I have ALL of my SP 100% exactly where I want it, and I know exactly where the next 6 months of SP is going (literally, I have the list of skills ordered by priority :P). I love my merc and have no insecurity over my SP allocation. You guys aren't getting respecs...you need to let go of this dead horse and just smarten up. You misunderstand the concept..... We still have yet to attain what was initially presented & promised at launch. An example of this would be the Pilot Dropsuit. As a Vehicle Pilot I am personally at odds with this situation as I have been driven off the path to my initial goal due to lacking said content, and even diminishing/removal of content (IE: Removal of Black Ops "Prototype" HAVs & Prototype "Advanced" HAVs). So in order to maintain ample functionality on the battlefield via dropsuit option I have specialized into Minmatar Logistics, thus making use of the SVER BPO. It may be argued that the Minmatar Logistics specialization was a "Choice", yet what of the Scouts and Heavies who have been presented with no such option??? Is it "Fair" that the Medium Dropsuit specializers not only were provided such options, but were presented with a Respec twice to feel out their newfound options??? (I know this because I went from Caldari Tanker to Caldari Logistics to Gallente Tanker in a matter of roughly 1-2 Months "post-launch".....) It may also be stated that 1 of those 2 Respecs were based upon the changes to the skill tree. But.....isn't it blatantly obvious that the skill tree will once again be altered/revamped??? With the issue of majorly altered bonuses, lacking of bonuses & function (IE: Level 4-5 of Dropsuit Command, Vehicle Mobility, etc. having no unlock nor associated bonus, thus creating a TRUE "SP Sink), and overall misintegration after the separation of Dropsuit & Vehicle Skill Sectors.....I forsee indefinite and extreme skill tree revamping in the near future. So is this not a justification for an intended Respec??? I'm glad you selfishly enjoy your unintended launch content Respec into Gallente Logistics, and I applaud your contentness with your "Choice" considered the fact you would have initially been stuck with the SVER BPO, Logistics Starter Fit, or at max Logistics vk0/vk1 (vk1 being essentially Minmatar Logistics GASP). But to you I say this "Dead Horse" has in fact "Smartened Up", and you have thusly been deemed Irrelevant. Thank you for not contributing to this discussion, your feedback is not welcome. PS: You are not a Vet unless you were in Closed BETA for quite some time (E3/Replication for example. You are simply a Seasoned Newberry If CCP deem a respec necessary due to skill tree revamp etc, that's fine. What isn't is short sighted noobs speccing into short sighted areas that they don't really care for (FotM). The lack of dropsuit variants is part and parcel of being into a game that is a work in progress. If you wanta completed product, go buy a retail FPS game, CCP doesn't owe you anything. Well, I'm a happy merc, you're not...so I win. With each game I move further along with my training goals while you sit here hoping for that which will probably not happen (though you may catch a lucky break via CCP warranting respec). Also, I have been here since E3 build. Your blatantly obvious non-constructive, troll post, full of Irrelevance has been duly noted & accounted for
Vickers S Grunt Expert Intervention Caldari State 209	Posted - 2013.08.16 12:15:00 - [45] - Quote Don't u realize this will kill the game ? I use boosters i like to train stuff to level 3 then use the aurum mods for proto until i decide if i really like it . If i get a respec i can guarantee that i will never spend another penny on aurum why would i ??? I have now twenty million skill points enough to max out any role and i know exactly which guns i prefer to use . So why would i use aurum ? Also what u are suggesting takes away from any sense of accomplishment for getting new gear for me .
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 200	Posted - 2013.08.16 12:37:00 - [46] - Quote Vickers S Grunt wrote: Don't u realize this will kill the game ? I use boosters i like to train stuff to level 3 then use the aurum mods for proto until i decide if i really like it . If i get a respec i can guarantee that i will never spend another penny on aurum why would i ??? I have now twenty million skill points enough to max out any role and i know exactly which guns i prefer to use . So why would i use aurum ? Also what u are suggesting takes away from any sense of accomplishment for getting new gear for me . I'm fully aware that it may somewhat depreciate the urge to spend AUR for some instances, but not in totality. If the core functions (Racials, Vehicle Tiers, Pilot Dropsuit, and Skill Tree Fixes) are implemented en masse, and/or sooner rather than later (Skill Tree Issues being an optimal 1st), then we only necessitate 1 full & multiple partial Respecs in the grand schematics. Step 3 may be eliminated almost entirely (Save the Newberry Respec) and we could, in a "Perfect World", be left with 1 last mass Respec before Racial Variants, Vehicle Tiers, and even Weapon Variants are even implemented. Basically speaking.....the faster the Skill Tree gets sorted out, the less opportunity for Respec "Whoring" as the content gets delivered. This does little-to-nothing to depreciate the value of AUR as you still have the incentive to try new things out of your chosen Race/Type via AUR purchases. This is, after all, a discussion and is subject to change as the discussion progresses. And in the end it is for US to decide what stays & what goes, and then for CCP to decide wether or not to go forth with OUR collective agreement. Your feedback is greatly appreciated
Vickers S Grunt Expert Intervention Caldari State 209	Posted - 2013.08.16 12:55:00 - [47] - Quote The thing is i am still very much against a respec its just not how i want the game to be and i imagine i am not the only one . This is one of the most sensible and constructive arguments for respec that i have seen but i still don't want it ! So how will we ever reach a collective agreement ? I appreciate your appreciation
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 200	Posted - 2013.08.16 14:00:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DCUO maxes out at 16 hours game time, argument example entirely invalid. Respecs are offered as they're more convenient to not hassel a player to not start a new character to experience the game in another fashion. I apologize only for not addressing this..... It's just that seeing your name associated with the CPM inspires immediate ire. It's like giving Spongebob a boating license.....a terrible idea. In regards to the BOLDed statement you are almost entirely incorrect and disturbingly misinformed (As usual........) Respec Tokens were offeren in DCUO as per the following events/reasons : When the Lantern Powerset was implemented it came with multiple bugs/issues. One of these bugs/issues was noted with precedence to a previously unaltered Skill Point/Challenge Exploit with the Movement Type altering equipments (Batman's Gauntlets, Joker's Jetpack, & Flash's Boots), which were only obtained as a Rare Drop in The Vault (Daily Instance). Should you equip said gear outside of your chosen Movement Type you could log off, relog, and suddenly gain the Challenge/Feat associated with said Movement Type, leading to unintended Skill Point gain. The same occured when changing from a Non-Controller Powerset (Tank/Healer) to the Controller Powerset via Lantern Token, except there were now multiple Feats associated with Powersets. This led to a community outcry as Skill Points are permanent statistical bolsters, and having a select few with normally unattainable Skill Points was a distinct advantage. Players who felt the Lantern Powerset was underpowered & broken were provided a Respec via Support Ticket, and went on to find out that changing their Movement/Powerset to the 3rd previously unchosen Powerset led to even more Feat unlocks, and even allowed repeating Race (As in Time Trials) associated Feats, even for Seasonal Events. This led to excessively inflated Skill Point gains. Like a typical "Lazy Developer" SoE left this issue/collision unchecked. But like any "Good" Marketing Department.....the dollar signs lit up in their eyes & they monetized the F*K out of these exploits, hence the birth of the ANYTIME/ALL THE TIME Respec Token (Powerset, Movement Type, Name Change, and even the completely pointless Weapon Type.....) Then they figured "What the hell.....why wait to grind in an MMORPG???" and thus the Replay Token was born.....then it also tainted PvP.....and then I QUIT. See??? The "Problem" wasn't the Respec persey, but the situations/conditions that led to them, and the frequency of use for which they were allowed. It was not the idea of Respec that pushed me away, but the over-monetization of it, and the unresolved exploit it stemmed from, and the SHTSTORM that followed..... It's uninformed, say whatever comes to "Mind", hardcore-poser casuals like yourself that irk me to no end. Do your homework before you make an assertion kid..... I cannot wait 'till the day they swipe that CPM "Badge" & toss you back to "Reality" where you shall remain the Irrelevant Non-Factor you present yourself as. And I'll rest easy when you are lightyears away from any form of "Representation" in balancing discussions and presentations that are supposed to help shape DUST 514..... May a statue of you be formed with 1 HP, in the essential likeness of Jita, on the Line Harvest battlefield so that we may permanently pelt you into oblivion as you suffer infinite deaths/pain ala Prometheus
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 200	Posted - 2013.08.16 14:06:00 - [49] - Quote Vickers S Grunt wrote: The thing is i am still very much against a respec its just not how i want the game to be and i imagine i am not the only one . This is one of the most sensible and constructive arguments for respec that i have seen but i still don't want it ! So how will we ever reach a collective agreement ? I appreciate your appreciation It is a matter of diplomacy as majority rules. There has to be a compromise and a resolution before action can be taken. I have shown ample willingness to compromise as the discussion progresses. I hope that we may soon (Not SoonGäó.....) come to a copasetic conclusion in this endeavor. I appreciate your appreciation for my appreciation
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 383	Posted - 2013.08.16 14:39:00 - [50] - Quote there should be a respec once all the racial tanks/vehicles/suits are in. you were force to skill up into a very limited amount of content which does not promote variety at all and makes balance a serious problem. how are you going to balance stuff out quickly when everyone has skilled in almost the same stuff?

Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 201	Posted - 2013.08.16 19:13:00 - [51] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: there should be a respec once all the racial tanks/vehicles/suits are in. you were force to skill up into a very limited amount of content which does not promote variety at all and makes balance a serious problem. how are you going to balance stuff out quickly when everyone has skilled in almost the same stuff? Exactly..... It is the allowance of this "Homogenized" experience that has essentially lead to the CoDdlefield 514 we see today
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 153	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:06:00 - [52] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: A product may or may not be noted of its flaws until sometimes many years after its production/release cycle. It may very well get boastful reviews and be sung songs of praises & honor until, on that fated day, the evils of said product come to light. You are rather shortsighted, like a horse with blinders, in not seeing the big picture as this scenario has been proven relevant time & again. EVE players, more often than not, provide ample E-Peen stroking for the CCP "Sweet Release. CCP makes DUST 514 and the Kool-Aid has set in so deep that those wide-eyed fanboys accept their ***-dipped fellatio sessions with a grin & a nod. As "Outsiders" we "Pure DUSTers" can objectively view the state of the game & take a look at the bigger picture. It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to see into the future, but to live in the moment, hope for the best, and fight for what we believe is right en masse. As for your "Edit" you provided nothing substantially constructive, nor destructive, in your first sentence.....thusly Invalidating said feedback. You have been learned I'm going to put what you said in the way that I understood it. "I refuse to take responsibility for my actions if another party is involved. I fall for the hype and marketing and therefore everyone else must have as well; therefore those who had the foresight to not be as gullible as I should feel just as entitled when my actions prove to be wrong. If they don't then clearly they are clearly the ones who were shortsighted, nay, blind because my perspective in perfectly justifiable. Allow me to use an example involving horse blinders, because narrowing a horse's field of view is the equivalent to being a responsible consumer. Don't those responsible consumers realize that the entitled ones are willing to break the system to my...er their advantage? If only the horse knew just how far you could stretch the world he's been given." I don't really understand this part. Something about Eve and then sucking? How did you get here from horse analogies? Besides I haven't played Eve in 2 months. I've been playing Dust. And apparently sucking CCP's by doing so. Sorry that I've invested serious time and effort into this game and I don't want to see it devalued. I stated that you created the false dilemma of CCP owing you a respec in points 1 and 2 of your OP. You did. CCP never said anything about players getting respecs when new content comes out. And respecs aren't required to make this game "complete". But apparently "I'm just going to say that your point isn't valid, so therefore it isn't." SMILEY FACE This is so fcking dumb. Respecs will give you (the vet) an unfair advantage and devalue SP. This game was not specifically made for NInjanomix, and it doesn't have to cater to you. It doesn't matter if respecs would make it "easier" or in your opinion "more correct". How do you not understand this? Do you buy "as seen on TV" products? No, they have a reputation for being cheap and short-lived. Do you buy new clothing and wear it for a week before you realize you don't have money for gas, so you return the clothes? No you plan a budget and priortize. Do you go to restaurant and eat your entire meal and then ask for your money back because you didn't like it? No, you order carefully then inspect your food upon arrival to see if it was properly prepared. Do you honestly believe that not owning up and paying like everyone else makes you more intelligent or open-minded? Ninjanomyx wrote: It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to plan or own up to consequences, but to live in the moment, ** around, be nonproductive, and then blame others in disbelief when things don't go his way. Fixed this for you. Fckin inspirational man. Make this your signature.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 219	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:09:00 - [53] - Quote No more respec, k thanks
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 7375	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:16:00 - [54] - Quote Dust does offer alts though because in all theory, that new alt isn't your main character as a person. He did not graduate from the Caldari Army Academy, he did not take up the caldari logistics he certainly didn't make the mistake of training on how to use flaylocks. Your main character however regrets his life decisions but has to live with them.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 207	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:22:00 - [55] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: A product may or may not be noted of its flaws until sometimes many years after its production/release cycle. It may very well get boastful reviews and be sung songs of praises & honor until, on that fated day, the evils of said product come to light. You are rather shortsighted, like a horse with blinders, in not seeing the big picture as this scenario has been proven relevant time & again. EVE players, more often than not, provide ample E-Peen stroking for the CCP "Sweet Release. CCP makes DUST 514 and the Kool-Aid has set in so deep that those wide-eyed fanboys accept their ***-dipped fellatio sessions with a grin & a nod. As "Outsiders" we "Pure DUSTers" can objectively view the state of the game & take a look at the bigger picture. It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to see into the future, but to live in the moment, hope for the best, and fight for what we believe is right en masse. As for your "Edit" you provided nothing substantially constructive, nor destructive, in your first sentence.....thusly Invalidating said feedback. You have been learned I'm going to put what you said in the way that I understood it. "I refuse to take responsibility for my actions if another party is involved. I fall for the hype and marketing and therefore everyone else must have as well; therefore those who had the foresight to not be as gullible as I should feel just as entitled when my actions prove to be wrong. If they don't then clearly they are clearly the ones who were shortsighted, nay, blind because my perspective in perfectly justifiable. Allow me to use an example involving horse blinders, because narrowing a horse's field of view is the equivalent to being a responsible consumer. Don't those responsible consumers realize that the entitled ones are willing to break the system to my...er their advantage? If only the horse knew just how far you could stretch the world he's been given." I don't really understand this part. Something about Eve and then sucking? How did you get here from horse analogies? Besides I haven't played Eve in 2 months. I've been playing Dust. And apparently sucking CCP's by doing so. Sorry that I've invested serious time and effort into this game and I don't want to see it devalued. I stated that you created the false dilemma of CCP owing you a respec in points 1 and 2 of your OP. You did. CCP never said anything about players getting respecs when new content comes out. And respecs aren't required to make this game "complete". But apparently "I'm just going to say that your point isn't valid, so therefore it isn't." SMILEY FACE This is so fcking dumb. Respecs will give you (the vet) an unfair advantage and devalue SP. This game was not specifically made for NInjanomix, and it doesn't have to cater to you. It doesn't matter if respecs would make it "easier" or in your opinion "more correct". How do you not understand this? Do you buy "as seen on TV" products? No, they have a reputation for being cheap and short-lived. Do you buy new clothing and wear it for a week before you realize you don't have money for gas, so you return the clothes? No you plan a budget and priortize. Do you go to restaurant and eat your entire meal and then ask for your money back because you didn't like it? No, you order carefully then inspect your food upon arrival to see if it was properly prepared. Do you honestly believe that not owning up and paying like everyone else makes you more intelligent or open-minded? Ninjanomyx wrote: It is not the "Responsibility" of the gamer to plan or own up to consequences, but to live in the moment, ** around, be nonproductive, and then blame others in disbelief when things don't go his way. Fixed this for you. Fckin inspirational man. Make this your signature. At the very least you get a 4/10 for Trolling & an A for "Effort". Your lack of constructive criticism & relevant feedback has thusly labeled your input as void in regards to this discussion. Thanx for trying nonetheless, KthxBAI
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 207	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:25:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dust does offer alts though because in all theory, that new alt isn't your main character as a person. He did not graduate from the Caldari Army Academy, he did not take up the caldari logistics he certainly didn't make the mistake of training on how to use flaylocks. Your main character however regrets his life decisions but has to live with them. Maybe one day a new hardware update goes out and improves the Logistics performance, maybe the arms race will lead to the flay lock getting useful again. Maybe you will be inspired to stay by the caldari side despite the betrayal when the gallente go apeshit on the caldari again. Gallente Tanker.....Minmatar Logistics. Go forth and continue digging a ditch for yourself.....& try not to fall asleep 'till you're done
Thor McStrut Reckoners 120	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:29:00 - [57] - Quote THE GREY CARDINAL wrote: Knocking on 20 mill SP here and so I think I could be classified as a vet. Here's a pearl of wisdom that has been finely refined over the course of my merc career: spec into what you want to play, not FotM. Seriously...if people did this you wouldn't need respecs. I'm full on proto gallente logibro with every single skill under DS core upgrades maxed, now I'm moving on to vehicle core upgrades and will be a gallente LLAV and LDS pilot (the power of OCD compells me to train whatever has 'logistics'on it). I have ALL of my SP 100% exactly where I want it, and I know exactly where the next 6 months of SP is going (literally, I have the list of skills ordered by priority :P). I love my merc and have no insecurity over my SP allocation. You guys aren't getting respecs...you need to let go of this dead horse and just smarten up. While the OP has written a fine post, one that I could almost get behind, ^^ this man has returned me to my senses. Great reply Cardinal.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 155	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:43:00 - [58] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: At the very least you get a 4/10 for Trolling & an A for "Effort". Your lack of constructive criticism & relevant feedback has thusly labeled your input as void in regards to this discussion. Thanx for trying nonetheless, KthxBAI Ninjanomyx wrote: Your blatantly obvious non-constructive, troll post, full of Irrelevance has been duly noted & accounted for Ninjanomyx wrote: Thank you for not contributing to this discussion, your feedback is not welcome. Wow...some big words there for a 13 year old. How dare I not agree with you. If I offer a dissenting opinion then my feedback is not welcome. Everyone who agrees with you however gets a gold star. I can see why you're so convincing. You should get into politics. I did Talking down to people is a good tactic, especially on the internet where nobody can smack you for it. However, it loses its power when used over and over, especially when out of place. You asked for these people's feedback on your proposal, and they gave it. SURPRISE! Not everyone wants to lose their hard work so you can spec FoTM. If you don't want to get negative feedback, you probably shoudn't post about something controversial like this. Make a daily shtpost how stupid people sound when they want nerfs or buffs to weapons. That's what I do I invite you to come to this thread I made in response to yours, which I will be aptly bumping. Cheers. I was hoping it wouldn't come to this.
Midas Fool Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 156	Posted - 2013.08.17 01:50:00 - [59] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: I'm a 22 Mil SP, 600 Mil ISK, Top 50 Killboard, Top 20 WP Board, Tanker Main w/ Minmatar Logi Sub who dabbled in Caldari Logi OP TAC AR Hacked EXO FOTM for ***** 'n giggles (All on just this Character). You obviously did not learn reading/comprehension if you are making these utterly ignorant assertions. You even further validate my point in your final "paragraph". You must also be new to DUST 514 if you did not know these facts and are now entitled to a Respec. You provided nothing valid to this discussion and have thusly been deemed Irrelevant I just love this one so much. Sounds like one of those "navy seal" copypastas. By the way I think my K/D is like 0.7. I've been playing this game since closed beta, too. I usually go positive in pubs but my K/D drops when I decide to start going into something different than what I'm used to.
ROADKILLURAZZ MURDER TAXI COMPANY 74	Posted - 2013.08.17 02:26:00 - [60] - Quote All I read was blah blah blahhhhhhhh Who in the fk wants to read all that garbage? Heres your respec.........Get the fk out of here!



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